Warlock NERF Again

[Wipey]

The fact that a p2p class has easy buttons for leveling quests it's actually a great thing to the game. It familiarizes new players with the game, introduces them to the encounters and prepares them for further maybe more challenging lives.

This is where I disagree with you bro. Autowin class right from low heroics to 30 that requires no thinking, no gear is the exact reason why new folks will never learn ****.
Basic game mechanics, their shortcuts, different classes and team "strategies". Spells, buffs, debuffs, weaknesses or strengths.
Nothing.

One third of characters on the server is the same warlock build. It perfectly reflects the direction this game has taken, especially former rich magic system.

Again, I dislike the class not because my gimps are "outperformed", always played what I wanted regardless where the "position" on the "food chain" was. But because what the class represents and what will eventually be the downfall of this great game.
The same nonsense why there are like 250 people online and sometimes zero lfms on the social panel.

The same exact thing that Turbine has done with Lord of the Rings Online. I don't know where such decisions come from or why the need for generic game mechanics for old game and especially dumbing down of combat and almost complete elimination of multiplayer aspect.

As a raider, it's terribly sad to see the fellowships being broken apart the way that had with lack of grouping, lack of legitimate end game, poor scaling, loot rewards not being commensurate with difficulty, massive dps boost, trait trees dumbing down the classes and encouraging mindless button mashing for the win, and solo-centric playstyle highly encouraged.

But sometimes devs cater to players simply to be seen as doing something for them whether necessary or not and it's easy enough to pull up the forums and fish for cheap ways to do that.

The Class Revamp-for all the reasons already given. It nuked what little individuality LOTRO had left for no gain in gameplay and simply alienated older players who were perfectly content with the system they had been using for over half a decade. And if anyone at Turbine believed skill trees would bring in new players...you know that saying about people being promoted to their level of incompetence?

[Knight_slayer]

I wish I had a warlock option and not struggle with a gimp sword and board paladin with 0 dps.

The best thing about Warlock as far as newer players go is they are almost impossible to mess up. Most builds require stats and feats to be specific, as does a good warlock but you could do just about about anything and the build would still be playable. Its not going to stop someone from sucking at playing it but at least they cant mess up their build too badly.

[Vanhooger]

The best thing about Warlock as far as newer players go is they are almost impossible to mess up. Most builds require stats and feats to be specific, as does a good warlock but you could do just about about anything and the build would still be playable. Its not going to stop someone from sucking at playing it but at least they cant mess up their build too badly.

Still waiting on you're answer, from few day now

[Knight_slayer]

Still waiting on you're answer, from few day now

Wont be long, keep waiting though.

[Atheok]

This is where I disagree with you bro. Autowin class right from low heroics to 30 that requires no thinking, no gear is the exact reason why new folks will never learn ****.
Basic game mechanics, their shortcuts, different classes and team "strategies".

Really? So new players should bump their head in the wall from the start and find this very complicated game, for those who have no knowledge what so ever of the pnp game. What kept me in game was the social aspect and the fact I was coming from a game that used to promote violent language. Finding DDO so peaceful is what convinced me to stay. Having a different backround, I dunno if my sword and board pally could have convinced me to keep playing...

I didn't do any thinking on my paladin either. So that doesn't change anything. The only change is that it could have done my journey easier. Just to get to the point where I can get some useful information.

And I can't care less of this "look in your neighbor backyard" argument. I don't care if the majority of pps are playing warlocks. It can be 90% warlocks and 10% other classes as far as I'm concerned. And I don't think it has any influence over lfm's either. Whatever makes them happy, let them play whatever they enjoy. Let them farm their gear with easy buttons. Let them farm epic xp with ease. If they are ready to take the game a step further, they will realize they need a different build. They can't be uber in endgame (LE Shroud) and they won't be in Reaper. But you already know that.

Just LOL.

Why do you lol? Did you find that soloed quest/raid by a warlock that hasn't been done better by a different class/build? ... FUNNY GUY ...

[Atheok]

You can't beat my fighter splashed with two levels of sorc for secret door detection and summon monster...

You are probably right, I couldn't with 0 dps. But you would have probably detected that. So unless you would have summoned your monster, we would have probably settled down for a game of cards.

[Vanhooger]

Wont be long, keep waiting though.

Cool.
I can live without it
That tells everything about you're defending post on warlock.
Also you can't even apologize.
Cheers, have a good day.

[Vanhooger]

Really? So new players should bump their head in the wall from the start and find this very complicated game, for those who have no knowledge what so ever of the pnp game. What kept me in game was the social aspect and the fact I was coming from a game that used to promote violent language. Finding DDO so peaceful is what convinced me to stay. Having a different backround, I dunno if my sword and board pally could have convinced me to keep playing...

I didn't do any thinking on my paladin either. So that doesn't change anything. The only change is that it could have done my journey easier. Just to get to the point where I can get some useful information.

And I can't care less of this "look in your neighbor backyard" argument. I don't care if the majority of pps are playing warlocks. It can be 90% warlocks and 10% other classes as far as I'm concerned. And I don't think it has any influence over lfm's either. Whatever makes them happy, let them play whatever they enjoy. Let them farm their gear with easy buttons. Let them farm epic xp with ease. If they are ready to take the game a step further, they will realize they need a different build. They can't be uber in endgame (LE Shroud) and they won't be in Reaper. But you already know that.



Why do you lol? Did you find that soloed quest/raid by a warlock that hasn't been done better by a different class/build? ... FUNNY GUY ...

You said warlock dosn't have boss dps and the only good thing at epics is Hurl, so that was funny for me.

[Atheok]

You said warlock dosn't have boss dps and the only good thing at epics is Hurl, so that was funny for me.

What else is uber in LE Shroud(somehow our only endgame) for a warlock ? And tell me more about a warlock single target dps at lvl 26 in EE Don't Drink the Watter for example.

[Knight_slayer]

This is where I disagree with you bro. Autowin class right from low heroics to 30 that requires no thinking, no gear is the exact reason why new folks will never learn ****.

All heroics are "Autowin" on any class.

What makes Warlock easiest is cone shape, blast everything in front of you. Quests with hallways, most quests, its just walk through the quest holding M1. So I get your frustration and when I leveled mine just last month I lol'd walking through GH cabal and trial etc just blasting everything. All the necro 4's same story. But two years ago my barb ran everything faster. Warlock blaster is just so easy to play compared to the barb which required more micromanagement.

I don't think its such a bad thing to have a pay to play class that's easy to play and powerful at the same time, as long as its not as powerful as the top classes that require knowledge, gear and skill to play. We can only be talking about DPS warlocks though, as enchantment or necro warlock builds do require skill, knowledge and gear.

[Vanhooger]

What else is uber in LE Shroud(somehow our only endgame) for a warlock ? And tell me more about a warlock single target dps at lvl 26 in EE Don't Drink the Watter for example.

99% of the game isn't LE shroud, that said:

A basic rotation can be:

- Equip LGS Vacum
- Cast 1 Wizard PL mm and get 20 stack of vulnerability, swap LGS vacum to another dps weapon)
- Cast rebuke foe (up to 25% stacking damage from light...o warlock does light damage as well what a coincidence, also 25% stacking physical damage so any ranged melee will also benefit )
- Cast shadow upon you to get -10 to save (if i remember right) so you're pact damage will be saved a lot less especially on CHA warlock that does Max CHA and EVO.
- Use triple heart LGS to get ~5to8k acid DOT damage
- Consume ~5k+ chaotic DOT damage
- Arcane pulse DOT ~5k to 10k++ force damge
- Aura every 2 sec or spam blast (free) (most damage is unavoidable, only pact damage can be reduced or ignored by some mob)
- 2burst every 5 sec (free) (most damage is unavoidable, only pact damage can be reduced or ignored by some mob)
- If you have ender you're stack will never fade, so no need for vacum again
- Hellball dont know how many K
- Eburst 5 to 30k on a Warlock
If you want to dump youre sp add in:
- Ruin
- Greater ruin

On top of that: crit multi 60% warlock TS capstone, 25% feat, 36% LGS set
121% spell crit multi on everything.

Warlock does NOT have dps bosses, yeah right.

Now you can say that many of that stuff is available on any caster, right, but saying Warlock doesn't have boss dps is as i said before, just LOL

[slarden]

So what's your take on say a fleshy kensei? A pure human 20 fighter, is this a toon that can compete with shiradis / shurikens / and other A builds or not?

Personally I wouldn't play it and I almost never see the build. Kensai has great dps but poor self-healing so why play a fleshy version with just cocoon when you can run a bladeforged version with immunities and racial reconstruct. A pal splash isn't awful either if you don't want to use the +1 heart. Cocoon isn't even awful on a bladeforged as a back up either. I see alot of bladeforged fighters - usually multiclass - on sarlona - can't remember the last time I saw a strong vet playing a fleshy version.

Asking for someone to prove it with a build I almost never see is unrealistic. I am thinking my 17/3 wizard (which hasn't had a pass by the way but in all honesty doesn't need one) would likely struggle mightily if I wasn't in undead form due in large part to the immunity and extra fort. There is alot of damage I am not taking from the rogue in the end fight because my fort is 250% and I am immune to poison as a PM. I also have 2 resist items for the 18% hp giving me 113 resists in those elements. I think it's fire and cold, but I am thinking cold + acid is the best combo in there but not 100% positive.

Still if 2pc2 shows an LE warlock completion with no deaths on his 2pc2 account and asks cordovan to verify the character and account match in the thread - I am happy to respec my 9th main randiccar to run the quest and meet the conditions you and 2pc2 feel is necessary - fleshy melee. Randiccar is lacking in gear and past lifes but I will hobble together what I can. Not to say goal posts won't move as they already have...

[Atheok]

99% of the game isn't LE shroud, that said:

A basic rotation can be:

- Equip LGS Vacum
- Cast 1 Wizard PL mm and get 20 stack of vulnerability, swap LGS vacum to another dps weapon)
- Cast rebuke foe (up to 25% stacking damage from light...o warlock does light damage as well what a coincidence, also 25% stacking physical damage so any ranged melee will also benefit )
- Cast shadow upon you to get -10 to save (if i remember right) so you're pact damage will be saved a lot less especially on CHA warlock that does Max CHA and EVO.
- Use triple heart LGS to get ~5to8k acid DOT damage
- Consume ~5k+ chaotic DOT damage
- Arcane pulse DOT ~5k to 10k++ force damge
- Aura every 2 sec or spam blast (free) (most damage is unavoidable, only pact damage can be reduced or ignored by some mob)
- 2burst every 5 sec (free) (most damage is unavoidable, only pact damage can be reduced or ignored by some mob)
- If you have ender you're stack will never fade, so no need for vacum again
- Hellball dont know how many K
- Eburst 5 to 30k on a Warlock
If you want to dump youre sp add in:
- Ruin
- Greater ruin

On top of that: crit multi 60% warlock TS capstone, 25% feat, 36% LGS set
121% spell crit multi on everything.

Warlock does NOT have dps bosses, yeah right.

Now you can say that many of that stuff is available on any caster, right, but saying Warlock doesn't have boss dps is as i said before, just LOL

Nice...you can do all those at lvl 26...

99% of the game is irrelevant for OP discussions, a vet should know better.

And CAN I really say that many of the stuff you presented is available on any caster? CAN I REALLY? Good thing pure warlocks also have great SP management for the stuff available for all casters. Any wrongs you can spot there?

I guess I should not bother asking again for that uber completion of a warlock, no other build can equal right? And this is why warlocks are on top of the "Lets Nerf Builds" list... right, makes perfect sense now.

[Vanhooger]

Nice...you can do all those at lvl 26...

99% of the game is irrelevant for OP discussions, a vet should know better.

And CAN I really say that many of the stuff you presented is available on any caster? CAN I REALLY? Good thing pure warlocks also have great SP management for the stuff available for all casters. Any wrongs you can spot there?

I guess I should not bother asking again for that uber completion of a warlock, no other build can equal right? And this is why warlocks are on top of the "Lets Nerf Builds" list... right, makes perfect sense now.

Well if you read my post I already said that most stuff is available to any caster, that doesn't mean as you said Warlock doesn't have boss dps, but keep going mate.
You said only good thing is Hurl, I listed here why I think that's wrong but you won't accept it, that's cool.

Oh now we are talking about lvl 26 toon didn't know it, that's why all those screen/video were taken at lvl 30.

[Vanhooger]

Personally I wouldn't play it and I almost never see the build. Kensai has great dps but poor self-healing so why play a fleshy version with just cocoon when you can run a bladeforged version with immunities and racial reconstruct. A pal splash isn't awful either if you don't want to use the +1 heart. Cocoon isn't even awful on a bladeforged as a back up either. I see alot of bladeforged fighters - usually multiclass - on sarlona - can't remember the last time I saw a strong vet playing a fleshy version.

I would play it because this game has become Warlock and easy button online.
Like my main atm pure fleshy monk.

[slarden]

99% of the game isn't LE shroud, that said:

A basic rotation can be:

- Equip LGS Vacum
- Cast 1 Wizard PL mm and get 20 stack of vulnerability, swap LGS vacum to another dps weapon)
- Cast rebuke foe (up to 25% stacking damage from light...o warlock does light damage as well what a coincidence, also 25% stacking physical damage so any ranged melee will also benefit )
- Cast shadow upon you to get -10 to save (if i remember right) so you're pact damage will be saved a lot less especially on CHA warlock that does Max CHA and EVO.
- Use triple heart LGS to get ~5to8k acid DOT damage
- Consume ~5k+ chaotic DOT damage
- Arcane pulse DOT ~5k to 10k++ force damge
- Aura every 2 sec or spam blast (free) (most damage is unavoidable, only pact damage can be reduced or ignored by some mob)
- 2burst every 5 sec (free) (most damage is unavoidable, only pact damage can be reduced or ignored by some mob)
- If you have ender you're stack will never fade, so no need for vacum again
- Hellball dont know how many K
- Eburst 5 to 30k on a Warlock
If you want to dump youre sp add in:
- Ruin
- Greater ruin

On top of that: crit multi 60% warlock TS capstone, 25% feat, 36% LGS set
121% spell crit multi on everything.

Warlock does NOT have dps bosses, yeah right.

Now you can say that many of that stuff is available on any caster, right, but saying Warlock doesn't have boss dps is as i said before, just LOL

What is the AP spend on this build above - 110 action points or so?

TS Capstone increases crit damage from 291 to 321%. so if you are doing 1000 damage it's 3210 instead of 2910 on a crit and non crit damage remains at 1000. A nice boost for sure.

Empyrean magic is right around the same power level as that. Whirling wrists is probably even bigger although the 60% attack speed doesn't actually give you the full 60% bonus. Blitz is certainly bigger.

It's good, but not the most powerful ability in the game.

The only difference an ES blasting warlock has is the 2 blasts and aura - trivial on a boss and it requires close range. Boss damage is a real weakness for ES blasting warlocks. The SE dots are good - I use them on my warlock necromancer, but arcane pulse, greater ruin and ruin available to all casters is still your bread and butter.

[Vanhooger]

What is the AP spend on this build above - 110 action points or so?

TS Capstone increases crit damage from 291 to 321%. so if you are doing 1000 damage it's 3210 instead of 2910 on a crit and non crit damage remains at 1000. A nice boost for sure.

Empyrean magic is right around the same power level as that. Whirling wrists is probably even bigger although the 60% attack speed doesn't actually give you the full 60% bonus. Blitz is certainly bigger.

It's good, but not the most powerful ability in the game.

The only difference an ES blasting warlock has is the 2 blasts and aura - trivial on a boss and it requires close range. Boss damage is a real weakness for ES blasting warlocks. The SE dots are good - I use them on my warlock necromancer, but arcane pulse, greater ruin and ruin available to all casters is still your bread and butter.

No the build I am currently running does have only 80 AP, I don't know why you're thinking I need 110AP.
You obviously have empyrean magic as well on warlock.
Spell crit isn't a small increase when you hit the boss xtimes per second.

[Atheok]

Well if you read my post I already said that most stuff is available to any caster, that doesn't mean as you said Warlock doesn't have boss dps, but keep going mate.
You said only good thing is Hurl, I listed here why I think that's wrong but you won't accept it, that's cool.

Oh now we are talking about lvl 26 toon didn't know it, that's why all those screen/video were taken at lvl 30.

I said the only Uber thing is Hurl. You actually quoted me, you don't read what you quote? Then about the lvl 26, again it was you who quoted me asking you to illustrate the dps of a pure warlock lvl 26 in a EE Dont Drink the Water, as an example to show my initial state of saying warlocks are not keeping up the heroics uberness in epic leveling, failing on red names, was in fact wrong. Yet you come with a list of 14 things from which only 3 are specific to warlocks and you don't include Hurl, and are not even uber in LE Shroud (the only content relevant for OP discussion). Also you state yourself as a backup, that "many of that stuff is available on any caster" just so I won't state it, because you already knew how ridiculous your argument was. Good job.

[Vanhooger]

I said the only Uber thing is Hurl. You actually quoted me, you don't read what you quote? Then about the lvl 26, again it was you who quoted me asking you to illustrate the dps of a pure warlock lvl 26 in a EE Dont Drink the Water, as an example to show my initial state of saying warlocks are not keeping up the heroics uberness in epic leveling, failing on red names, was in fact wrong. Yet you come with a list of 14 things from which only 3 are specific to warlocks and you don't include Hurl, and are not even uber in LE Shroud (the only content relevant for OP discussion). Also you state yourself as a backup, that "many of that stuff is available on any caster" just so I won't state it, because you already knew how ridiculous your argument was. Good job.

Insulting people on you're guild must be a requirement to be recruited.
You ignore facts. Cheers.

[Atheok]

Insulting people on you're guild must be a requirement to be recruited.
You ignore facts. Cheers.

You mean "your" guild and not "you're". "You're guild" means "you are guild" which would make no sense, same as most of your arguments.

Keep being FUNNY, funny guy, and edit that post quickly.