Warlock NERF Again

[Atheok]

... because you feel good thinking that people complaining must be no0bs...

I cannot know ....

Pum-pum-pum... let me know when the epiphany hits you. Actually, don't let me know! Perfect balance is impossible.

But keep that motivation up! So far you convinced ... yourself that your suggestions could be helpful to the game. Don't let that thing go!

It is very clear to me now that you are part of a very few ppl who can spot the most rarest game fissures on regular basis. The most broken ones also and all of that with such easiness. I couldn't live with myself to know that I somehow withhold you from your work! We need efforts like yours on these forums on daily basis. I mean, what would we do without your suggestions?

[slarden]

Meanwhile, slarden hasn't ever posted anything. So yes, believing that Eth (or Cetus, or Sestra etc) has done it makes way more sense than believing slarden has done it. They earned their reputation of good players many, many times over and over. Slarden hasn't, and of course refuses to show just a screenshoot even.

To be fair NO ONE has posted or linked any proff on how it's done on a fleshy melee or ranged, not slarden but either other ppl who claim it's possible, if it is so obviously possible just do it and show us. Then we can count how much time and how much resources it takes compared to warlock or other cheesy builds.

I knew I would get this opportunity so here is the reason why I don't respond to people making demands. And this is true whether it's a real person or a sock account.

1) I've posted numerous screenshots of elite completions over the years - no need to prove I can run the hardest content on elite. I've done on many builds and sometimes in content that was hard for the specific build.
2) People on Sarlona have run with me enough to know what I can do
3) After taking time out of my life to respond to such a request it will be responded to with ridiculous responses such as "it doesn't count because you were in exalted angel" which is laughable of course since the the sorc in exalted angel completed the quest in 2/3 the time of the supposedly overpowered warlock which also had self healing on US.

If someone I respect asks me for something nicely I will respond. I have no intention to respond to people that aren't reasonable.

Slavers is easy content. If someone doesn't believe I can complete it on elite after all elite completions I posted in the past - usually much harder content for the time period - I don't believe they understand elite completions.

[BigErkyKid]

Why do you think everyone in this thread is burying their head in the sand or are afraid their easy button will be taken away?

You yourself have been part of many of the nerf build threads over the years and guess what...there is always going to be a build that is on top. There is always going to be a class/build/race that is not as good. To have a true balance, Turbine would have to remove self healing, redo destinies and how they stack, limit the abilities with multiclassing and a few other things. I would not mind seeing a truer balance, but I don't think it is financially smart considering the age of the game and resources needed to make it truly balanced.

Asking to simply nerf WL is like putting a band aid on a chainsaw wound. Not enough to really matter.

Who is this person who wants to nerf ONLY warlock, and who thinks perfect balance is possible? Can you please quote him/her for me?

Now if you are looking for someone who is saying that power creep is eroding the difficulty game, and that warlock is part of it, as are some of the other recent changes to spell crit damage, PRR, and so on, then that would be me.

I think there is a subset of builds that are so much more powerful than the rest that make playing the lesser pretty pointless. That is, if you care minimally about efficiency, or want to feel you are bringing something to a party.

[BigErkyKid]

Pum-pum-pum... let me know when the epiphany hits you. Actually, don't let me know! Perfect balance is impossible.

The sun is hot. Keep up with the thread if you want to be condescending.

[Wipey]

Does fleshy sorc fill your criteria? Or will goalposts get moved further?
http://imgur.com/a/v2JGN
http://imgur.com/a/PdYHh

I'll raise you completion on useless class that is in dire need for updates.
Not gonna lie, the end fight is really difficult, my fvs has like 125 prr.

For the record, I still don't like warlocks. The class and whole gameplay represents everything that's wrong with combat in this game for last two years.
We always had easy buttons but never so common and such builds required investment and some game experience.

[boredman]

Just few questions,

For the average skilled player, (most of ddo population, i think for the overperforming skilled or unskilled player this may change), what is the "best" class(es) for easiest and effective gameplay (both), (dps, survival, solo ability, group ability, weaknesses, advantages, content, race and gear dependency, play skill dependency, potential, etc), and knowing that always will be something at the top, how is that difference or margin respect other classes? Is short or big, enough to matter?

I think many variables have to be included when trying to talk about overperforming, not just dps like some players seem to do or just easy play skill, or just potential, etc. I see powergamers tend to talk more oriented to dps and builds potential while the average player values more the easy play, resources and skill required. All of that matters, and every aspect (play skill difficulty, dps, defense, etc) should be compared between classes and builds.

For example a barbarian can do great damage but the problem is they may die on the try (how much),
A tank can survive very well, at the cost of losing damage, (how much damage)
cc builds can control enemies at the cost of some damage/defense (how much)
x build is easier to play at the cost of damage/contribution (how much)
x build can contribute better at the cost of skills, resources, play difficulty ( how much)

In the end, after seeing old videos of builds capable of soloing raids designed for 12+players in 7 min, is hard to talk about balance, but at least some things can be done.

[Wizza]

And this is true whether it's a real person or a sock account.

Backing out already from your previous claim?

[nokowi]

Backing out already from your previous claim?

As I read this discussion, there were those who thought Slavers count be solo'd who were proven wrong.

Trying to change the discussion to whether or not Slarden can solo is meaningless to the thread, and reveals much about the person who feels the need to do this.

It's comical when it is based on no first hand factual information and is most likely wrong.

[Wizza]

As I read this discussion, there were those who thought Slavers count be solo'd who were proven wrong.

Trying to change the discussion to whether or not Slarden can solo is meaningless to the thread, and reveals much about the person who feels the need to do this.

It's comical when it is based on no first hand factual information and is most likely wrong.

And I made absolutely no reference to Slavers or solo completitions in my latest post Simply noticed and replied to how he veeery quickly backed out from the accusation that 2pc2 is my sock 100%, to a "maybe it is, maybe it is not"

[BigErkyKid]

As I read this discussion, there were those who thought Slavers count be solo'd who were proven wrong.

Trying to change the discussion to whether or not Slarden can solo is meaningless to the thread, and reveals much about the person who feels the need to do this.

It's comical when it is based on no first hand factual information and is most likely wrong.

Who said it couldn't be soloed? If I can solo it in a semi flavor melee build, I'm pretty sure that the bar is relatively low. Now on a fleshy Kensei I couldn't, and have yet to see that happen. The initial can and cannot was started when I said that the end fight can be pretty rough in me lee and someone said that it could be done. I believe that was eth. So next thing I did was to step in solo and do it. Because I'm interested in carrying and informed and constructive conversation, now just debate about e peens.

Also was said that some classes or is way harder than in others. And also that when grouping, big differences in power often leave some builds feeling kinda pointless. Warlock is among those builds, but it is t limited to that only class.

Then and a lot of noise and trash talk, just because.

[nokowi]

And I made absolutely no reference to Slavers or solo completitions in my latest post Simply noticed and replied to how he veeery quickly backed out from the accusation that 2pc2 is my sock 100%, to a "maybe it is, maybe it is not"

There is no way to prove or disprove who's sock puppet it is.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, is factually correct, while accusing you is an opinion.

It could equally be Gingerspyce pimping out his own video (which is a joke if you knew him).

[BigErkyKid]

Just few questions,

For the average skilled player, (most of ddo population, i think for the overperforming skilled or unskilled player this may change), what is the "best" class(es) for easiest and effective gameplay (both), (dps, survival, solo ability, group ability, weaknesses, advantages, content, race and gear dependency, play skill dependency, potential, etc), and knowing that always will be something at the top, how is that difference or margin respect other classes? Is short or big, enough to matter?

I think many variables have to be included when trying to talk about overperforming, not just dps like some players seem to do or just easy play skill, or just potential, etc. I see powergamers tend to talk more oriented to dps and builds potential while the average player values more the easy play, resources and skill required. All of that matters, and every aspect (play skill difficulty, dps, defense, etc) should be compared between classes and builds.

For example a barbarian can do great damage but the problem is they may die on the try (how much),
A tank can survive very well, at the cost of losing damage, (how much damage)
cc builds can control enemies at the cost of some damage/defense (how much)
x build is easier to play at the cost of damage/contribution (how much)
x build can contribute better at the cost of skills, resources, play difficulty ( how much)

In the end, after seeing old videos of builds capable of soloing raids designed for 12+players in 7 min, is hard to talk about balance, but at least some things can be done.

This is an interesting post I will get to Later.

If we focused on that, rather than on who is bestamest, we d do better.

[nokowi]

Who said it couldn't be soloed? I

Some people said it wasn't possible on other builds, some argue about how "easy" it is while using time as the metric for ease.

In each case, the forums show a general lack of understanding of what creative and knowledgeable players can do.

Some forumites CHOOSE to complain about the players who accept the least amount of challenge instead of CHOOSING to take on challenge themselves.

Why does it really matter if someone else prefers a build that eliminates challenge?

Where you err, is in basing your argument for (barbarian, warlock, etc) around your preferences that all builds have the same level of challenge.

You are saying that I won't be able to pick a more or less challenge character in your preferred game design (all builds are equal), without having to intentionally gimp my character.

[Wizza]

while accusing you is an opinion.

I wish I could put all these quotes in my sig, guildie. They are golden.

[nokowi]

I wish I could put all these quotes in my sig, guildie. They are golden.

You are welcome to quote anything I have said, in or out of context.

Be prepared for a discussion based on facts.

I will call you out when you lack points and you can choose to respond or (lacking any real points) resort to character assassination.

[Wizza]

You are welcome to quote anything I have said, in or out of context.

Be prepared for a discussion based on facts.

I will call you out when you lack points and you can choose to respond or (lacking any real points) resort to character assassination.

Discussion of facts. Like your friend accusing me of having a sock replying in this thread, you defending him and replying to me, after I only replied to how quickly he backed out. Ok guildie

[nokowi]

Discussion of facts. Like your friend accusing me of having a sock replying in this thread, you defending him and replying to me, after I only replied to how quickly he backed out. Ok guildie

I put your claim of Slarden not being able to solo the quests he said he had in the same category as him accusing you of a sock puppet.

Both were uncalled for.

When you choose to apologize to him, maybe you can expect the same in return.

[Wizza]

When you choose to apologize to him, maybe you can expect the same in return.

Oh funny. The point was slarden doesn't have a reputation on the forums, Eth and others do. With not just one screenshot, but years of them and videos.

Don't worry. I don't want an apology I had a good loud laugh at it, and at yours "accusing someone is an opinion".

Besides, end of the little amusing OT. Let's go back to Warlocks

[nokowi]

Oh funny. The point was slarden doesn't have a reputation on the forums, Eth and others do. With not just one screenshot, but years of them and videos.

Don't worry. I don't want an apology I had a good loud laugh at it, and at yours "accusing someone is an opinion".

Besides, end of the little amusing OT. Let's go back to Warlocks

The point was you appeared not to think it was possible and demanded screenshots.

When you set the precedent for a forumite making a comment about something they have done as
1. having years of videos
2. being someone you respect

then you invalidate the entire forums.


There was no call for you to doubt what Slarden said, unless you were simply not knowledgeable about what was possible on melee toons.

[Wizza]

Last time I reply to you on this.

The point was you appeared not to think it was possible and demanded screenshots.

I appeared. I never said it was impossible.

When you set the precedent for a forumite making a comment about something they have done as
1. having years of videos
2. being someone you respect

then you invalidate the entire forums.

There was no call for you to doubt what Slarden said, unless you were simply not knowledgeable about what was possible on melee toons.

And this is how things work. You prove yourself first, and then people will know what you are able to do.

Bye, see you in guild chat