Warlock NERF Again

[Vish]

And it's a good thing I caveated my statement with "To my knowledge".

I had completely forgotten about the Brilliance alteration. It no longer grants Temp HP to NPC's (because that was breaking content that relied on enemies which turned into NPC's at certain HP thresholds). It should, however, still be granting Temp HP to PC's. If that is not the case please submit a bug report! =]

Thx coco,
I tested this Mornin pt2 slavers.
Everything seems to be working ok.
Not sure if shroud has some different physics,
I have some innate healing gear, and brilliance is part of that
And it didn't seem to be working in shroud
I think it has to do with being hit
And slavers is more dense territory

And on nerf to shining through
I find I don't use it anyways,
It's another button to hit during fights,
Sometimes it's useful,
Jump back, spam a cocoon and shine thru
Back to full
But I got other means to keep my red bar filled
And lately, ESP slavers, I find I don't even watch it
So I'm thinking that's 2ap I get back

Really though, how many times nerfed
Must have been a bad idea to begin with
So sad it's signature for ES

But I've noticed that, that you introduce op
And then balance it
Makes me wonder if that's market ploy
Or if you guys know balance to begin with...

And on bug reports
Ha, like I know what's working in this game or not
I noticed the hover over on ki shout
Showed passive +10 melee power, and some henshin like adds
But i didn't bug it
The tool tip was correct I think, but the enhancement wasn't
I figure that would make news
But I've never submitted QA bugs,
Just weird happenings stuff
And even then I write it off
Like the other day in slavers pt2
Couldnt get into sign of the rose,
It wouldn't give me portal clickie
Had to relog
Then it let me in
But later after quest, I went to boat
It was empty
Like after a restart
That's was a big glitch
Something got reset
And I think it was because I was in the slave lords room
Before the town,
And they went into the rose
So something to do with being in the same instance...

Anyways,
I'm glad you patrol the boards
Having a dev being on top of it is really
Reasurring

[slarden]

LOL. I can read wiki too you know, I do know how the spell crit with lgs work, I was using ender jsut as a reference to tell I need to get 5 pieces of lgs.

You said that my statement was absurd, when it's not.

I can make strong build without it.

I use warlock when I want to run content (except for LE raids) with brain dead, especially after work.

You just deny that WK and MOK are overperforming.

I do play mainly caster, so I say that even against my own build, but I can't deny that some stuff for caster is overperforming atm.

I can't defend my build just because I play it, even if I know there is something too good.

I've already showed the math that the 60% crit damage provides less than a 14% dps boost.

I would think the tempest capstone + dance of death provides a bigger boost. I don't think it's the most OP ability as you claim and if it was - why are so few people taking that capstone?

[Vanhooger]

I've already showed the math that the 60% crit damage provides less than a 14% dps boost.

I would think the tempest capstone + dance of death provides a bigger boost. I don't think it's the most OP ability as you claim and if it was - why are so few people taking that capstone?

I am not a math guy for sure but for what I can see in game it's a huge dps boost, definetly not 14%. I don't know maybe is bugged?

Most people don't use it just because it's easier to survive with 4k hp, while when you have 1-1,5k you need to pay more attention especially LE raid.

Same reason why I see many figher/paladin and other classes in Sentinel instead of LD for LE raids.

It's easier to survive in sentinel then in LD.

Of course you do lose lot of defense but you are top-dps and ranged too if you desire. I see it a bit over the top IMHO.

Then we can talk about other classes that are overperforming too if you want. We read everyday in the forum that we have too much power creep and we fail to see where it does come from?

Sorry didn't mean to be this aggressive, but it's too late

You think in another way witch is fine, we can't agree on everything.

only thing is, I would like you to try it out and let me know what you're result are honestly, before telling me that my arguments are silly.

[slarden]

I am not a math guy for sure but for what I can see in game it's a huge dps boost, definetly not 14%. I don't know maybe is bugged?
Most people don't use it just because it's easier to survive with 4k hp, while when you have 1-1,5k you need to pay more attention especially LE raid.
Same reason why I see many figher/paladin and other classes in Sentinel instead of LD for LE raids.
It's easier to survive in sentinel then in LD.
Of course you do lose lot of defense but you are top-dps and raged too if you desire. I see it a bit over the top IMHO.

Then we can talk about other classes that are overperforming too if you want. We read everyday in the forum that we have too much power creep and we fail to see where it does come from?

Sorry didn't mean to be this aggressive, but that's what I'm thinking. But you think in another way witch is fine.

only thing is, I would like you to try it out and let me know what you think honestly, before telling me that my arguments are silly.

Some things are not simple math like dance of death.

Some things are like how an increased spell crit multiplier increases dps, but I was wrong on the math which is corrected below.

Without MoK or Warlock TS 60% Crit Damage

100: Base
100: Crit Base
25: Scion of the element of fire
36: 5 piece material opposition lgs set
------------------
261% crit damage

100: Base
100: Crit Base
25: Scion of the element of fire
36: 5 piece material opposition lgs set
60: Mok or Warlock TS 60% crit damage
------------------
321% crit damage

Assuming 60% Crit Chance

With 261% Crit Damage
-------------------
Crit damage: 60 % * 261% = 156%
Non-Crit damage: 40% * 100% = 40%
Damage on average: 196.6%

With 321% Crit Damage
--------------------
Crit damage: 60% * 321% = 192.6%
Non-Crit damage: 40% * 100% = 40%
Damage on average = 232.6%

= 232.6% / 196% = 118.3% 18.3% DPS increase

[Vanhooger]

Some things are not simple math like dance of death.

Some things are like how an increased spell crit multiplier increases dps, but I was wrong on the math which is corrected below.

Without MoK or Warlock TS 60% Crit Damage

100: Base
100: Crit Base
25: Scion of the element of fire
36: 5 piece material opposition lgs set
------------------
261% crit damage

100: Base
100: Crit Base
25: Scion of the element of fire
36: 5 piece material opposition lgs set
60: Mok or Warlock TS 60% crit damage
------------------
321% crit damage

Assuming 60% Crit Chance

With 261% Crit Damage
-------------------
Crit damage: 60 % * 261% = 156%
Non-Crit damage: 40% * 100% = 40%
Damage on average: 196.6%

With 321% Crit Damage
--------------------
Crit damage: 60% * 321% = 192.6%
Non-Crit damage: 40% * 100% = 40%
Damage on average = 232.6%

= 232.6% / 196% = 118.3% 18.3% DPS increase

Assuming this is true since I am terrible at math so can't really argue you're calculations.
We need to consider how many damage tick a warlock does per second.
Aura+ blast1 + blast 2 + hellball

Each one can crit, so how do we calculate that?

I know that you can apply hellball to any caster but my point is crit multi do favor WK and other multiproc per second build like zombie sorc, shiradi proc.

[slarden]

Assuming this is true since I am terrible at math so can't really argue you're calculations.
We need to consider how many damage tick a warlock does per second.
Aura+ blast1 + blast 2 + hellball

Each one can crit, so how do we calculate that?

I know that you can apply hellball to any caster but my point is crit multi do favor WK and other multiproc per second build like zombie sorc, shiradi proc.

Why? The devs have already done the tests and they know warlock isn't top tier dps.

[Vanhooger]

Why? The devs have already done the tests and they know warlock isn't top tier dps.

Beliveme, it does.

[slarden]

Beliveme, it does.

Then it should be no problem to provide accurate facts to prove it. Please do so.

[Chai]

Beliveme, it does.

Warlock is not top DPS, nor was it ever.

What it is, is an easy entry to LE, and just like shiradi when it was an easy entry to EE, those favoring the nerf approach will continue to bludgeon the forums with claims that it is top DPS, when it clearly isn't. This is likely done in favor of not wanting to have to divulge the real reason why the nerfs are desired, when other classes needed much refinement through TRs and gearing in the past, and this new thing (it is bad!!!) doesn't need that, just to be viable in the current era's hardest difficulty setting.

If anything is an easy button on warlocks, its survivability (this is what makes it viable in LE straight out the gate). Their DPS is a solid B level, but there are A and A+ level DPS builds that handedly outshine it in DPS.

[guardiankaiser]

Assuming this is true since I am terrible at math so can't really argue you're calculations.
We need to consider how many damage tick a warlock does per second.
Aura+ blast1 + blast 2 + hellball

Each one can crit, so how do we calculate that?

I know that you can apply hellball to any caster but my point is crit multi do favor WK and other multiproc per second build like zombie sorc, shiradi proc.

Damage increase caused by cit chance / crit damage covers any damage you do, its really just a (base * chance * effect) formula and calculating the % deviation of the outcome.

If in 1 minute you did 50,000 dmg bursting or 120,000 dmg tossing in extra abilities, the percent increase is the same.

Only thing hellball might do is if you can't maintain that crit chance on all the damage types lower its increase amount

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Their DPS is a solid B level, but there are A and A+ level DPS builds that handedly outshine it in DPS.

Such as?

Do any of them have better AOE?

[Vanhooger]

I have no idea how you play warlock guys.

Me, my guild mates and other people we play with, we all agree on that.

But if you say warlok isn't top tier dps, ok then. Cheers

Will do a video to prove it as soon as I finish my equip.

[guardiankaiser]

Such as?

Do any of them have better AOE?

I'll assume we are talking casters, cause Furyshot can get to some **** good damage

If you want the red name dead faster then warlock, Wizard Shiradi Archmage, timing well with arcane supremacy (ruin/greater ruin/missile spam) will send them to an early grave

I hear some shiradi hybrides clear rooms quickly, I have seen some occasional gross damage from Artificer's surprisingly (Idk if greater dps, but definitely greater bursts)

If your willing to dump spell points you can out aoe a warlock for a bit, but you will need to know when your next shrine is (so it's quest dependant, doubly so cause it's element dependant)

If your saying warlock wins in long term sustainable AoE damage that is effective in most content (Radiant/evil damage) I would agree, it might kinda be there thing, sometimes you win when something is your schtick, although putting your face in melee still pulls many risks, people may greatly over assume how many people have the past lives and LGS to really pull that off on top content, not having 36 epic past lives makes a big survivability difference.

[Chai]

Such as?

Do any of them have better AOE?

Several shiradi builds (most not even tier 1, but still beating warlock in DPS, just nowhere near as survivable).

Any good monk archer build, or monk ranger hybrid build.

Any good tempest ranger build.

Kensai when played well (the players screaming they do not want to hit a lot of buttons for a more complex DPS rotation are NOT playing it properly for max DPS)

Mechanic is on par, better in some circumstances (hallways) and worse in others (circular rooms)

DC wizards can defeat warlocks in trash kills (here comes the "yeah but you need a lot more build refinement to get it to the same viability" which I outlined earlier) - and the forum game seemed to favor counting kills as total HP damaged for purposes of DPS last time I brought this up.

[Tilomere]

There is no reason for them to nerf the duration of cc except dire charge. Has a dev really suggested that is on the table?

Sev isn't a dev. He is the producer. Reread him that's not what he meant.

As to DPS, a warlock can't out dps an arti with machination of madness for single target dps. Artificers also have higher AoE dps, higher to hit on their casting stat with harper without +1 heart use, and higher dire charge DC. Artificers also have self healing built in, allowing them to run in LD and twist sense weakness for higher helpless damage, and a higher hell ball DC.

But an EA warlock is faster due to wings, so if you have enough dps to burst trash, that's all that matters.

[Vanhooger]

Several shiradi builds (most not even tier 1, but still beating warlock in DPS, just nowhere near as survivable).

Any good monk archer build, or monk ranger hybrid build.

Any good tempest ranger build.

Kensai when played well (the players screaming they do not want to hit a lot of buttons for a more complex DPS rotation are NOT playing it properly for max DPS)

Mechanic is on par, better in some circumstances (hallways) and worse in others (circular rooms)

DC wizards can defeat warlocks in trash kills (here comes the "yeah but you need a lot more build refinement to get it to the same viability" which I outlined earlier) - and the forum game seemed to favor counting kills as total HP damaged for purposes of DPS last time I brought this up.

This post made me laugh thanks

[011775715]

well now you know how we feel when they nerf something we like.

[Full_Bleed]

...you need to chime in at least once or twice per thread if you want your voice heard. The player base isn't huge and one troll with multiple accounts can make a viewpoint appear more popular than it is.

I agree. Warlocks need to be nerfed more. The ES nerf was rather pointless. Thanks for reminding me to chime in to counter your constant protectionism of the worst easy-button, group-negative class ever created for this game.

[GroundhogDay]

I agree. Warlocks need to be nerfed more. The ES nerf was rather pointless. Thanks for reminding me to chime in to counter your constant protectionism of the worst easy-button, group-negative class ever created for this game.

You're playing a wizard, right?

[Wipey]

i agree. Warlocks need to be nerfed more. The es nerf was rather pointless. Thanks for reminding me to chime in to counter your constant protectionism of the worst easy-button, group-negative class ever created for this game.

Qft.