Warlock NERF Again

[Vampphreak]

I wanna ask the same:

How many bosses you can kill with trap disarming?
How many mobs/bosses you killed with evasion?
Does consume have 30-60 seconds cooldown?
Does consume run out of action boosts?
Do you even need proper DPS cycle to use consume?

When you have no actual arguments you provide any pointless scrap you can come up right?

How many bosses can you not get to without trap disarming?
How well can you kill things after you've died from not evading something?

The argument can go on forever.

[goodspeed]

lol so many responses to a thread that dates nearly a year back.

[AzureDragonas]

How many bosses can you not get to without trap disarming?
How well can you kill things after you've died from not evading something?

The argument can go on forever.

Don't worry warlockCare covers that too, with its temp hp, when you hit up to 3k hp on 30 with warlocks WHO CARES about evasion or traps? Even evasiveless dps with 1/3 of that don't so why should they?

[CaptainPurge]

Don't worry warlockCare covers that too, with its temp hp, when you hit up to 3k hp on 30 with warlocks WHO CARES about evasion or traps? Even evasiveless dps with 1/3 of that don't so why should they?

Does warlockCare cover your expenses for butthurt cream?

[Morroiel]

Guys..Warlocks are fine.

Signed - Warlock Users

Warlocks aren't balanced. They need nerfs just not to damage. If anything their endgame single target dps needs buffs and/or QoL changes.

I also don't really subscribe to this "warlock users fallecy". Either you've played a warlock firsthand and know what the class is capable of, which makes you a warlock user, or you've boycotted the class entirely out of some principal which is fine but it means you have no basis to compare.

I'd consider my main character archetypes to be: dc caster, ranged dps, caster dps, melee dps, assassin, healer, and then tank.
I'll play whatever class fits the bill the best for those roles and in that preference. I do have some nuances like I love druids even though they are absolute garbage atm (even more than clerics). So I'd rather play a druid than a cleric for healers. Similarly I find mechanics dreadfully boring, so I'd much rather play a bow user over one (though I find throwers to be the most fun, but they are also the most op). I find stick builds to be more fun than tempests, rangers, and kensai variants so I'd much rather play one than the others (though I find handwrap monk to be the best of both worlds fun and power).

Edit: Somehow I thought I was in another thread. My bad removed the reference to see my other post. Sorry about that will just elaborate here.

[Phil7]

Does warlockCare cover your expenses for butthurt cream?

xD

[Chai]

The issue would have been better addressed by having monsters save for eld blast damage.

Naaaa, more like by addressing whats actually powerful on the class. Taking something that is an awesome trash killer (not because of its DPS) and average boss DPS and making its boss DPS less than average isnt really resolving an issue. Those who constantly proclaimed it did EVERYTHING better than everyone else, including DPS, were (and still are) simply incorrect. This is now the third example in as many months where the company listened to and acted on misinformation due to the sheer volume of repetition of it.

[Pnumbra]

Naaaa, more like by addressing whats actually powerful on the class. Taking something that is an awesome trash killer (not because of its DPS) and average boss DPS and making its boss DPS less than average isnt really resolving an issue. Those who constantly proclaimed it did EVERYTHING better than everyone else, including DPS, were (and still are) simply incorrect. This is now the third example in as many months where the company listened to and acted on misinformation due to the sheer volume of repetition of it.

+1

[CaptainPurge]

I suck at playing warlocks so I'm going back to Hello Kitty Online.

Legit

[Asylumist]

I'm not disagreeing with your numbers - I've said elsewhere that Stricken/Consume should probably
have an SP cost and a save for half. However, you're doing what I said you're doing. Taking one
thing that you believe is broken/OP and using that to win the argument.

How many traps can you disarm with Consume?
How many spells/traps/attacks did you evade with Consume?
Does Consume do more DPS than Manyshot or 10k stars?
Does Consume more DPS than a haste boosted Kensai
Does Consume do more DPS than a Sorc using a proper DPS cycle (Sorc with sad enhancment trees from 2013?)

I'm not saying you're wrong just that the problem is a bit more complicated

Balance is a Unicorn as it means different things to different people and is very much based
on the obstacles that the content provides. At the moment, the meta is RTR on R1-R3
which suits Warlock abilities perfectly; they are (IMO) the best choice for this. Like every FotM
in DDO history, they won't always be.

Most of what your argument in the post is based on non-heroic stuff or skills with long cooldowns in comparison to Warlock damage. As for Sorc. Depends on the quests and rez shrine totals.

Traps? Splash. For first lifers with low ap for int, simple. TEMP HP THROUGH. The problem is complicated not because of Dice. Its complicated because the warlock is designed to spread out more damage with the least drawbacks of any class and were not properly scaled in heroics. I am guessing... purposefully to make them more attractive.

[Asylumist]

I am a new player and I approve this post. My account is several years old, but I am still on my first life as a wizard. This is because I keep getting frustrated with how hard it is to get through the content solo. I have quit the game several times and then come back at a later date. I have even spend money at different times to buy new content, looking for something thats easier to do.

There are probably those that would say I should find players to group with, but this is essentially a solo game for new players. Especially for those of use that are not vip and do not have access to all the quests, it's very difficult to find players in lfg that are doing a quest that is available to us and is on a level that we can get xp from. Many of those here probably began playing back in a time when there were bigger population servers and more choices for grouping. Now the main playerbase is all leveled and op and they dont relate well to us newer players who are just starting out with nothing.

Being a new player that is on my first life as a wizard, I can't say whether warlocks were or still are op. However, I can say that something should be done for new players so we can get through our first one or two lives easier. Now that I have learned how easy the warlock is for leveling I will probably choose it for my second life, if I make it that far.

As things stand now, I purchased $50 in tp during the bonus sale and am now waiting for otto boxes to become available again so I can boost to level 20. At that point I should be able to clear some of the lower level content thats giving me problems now. Until then I don't actually play. I just log in every few days to check the auction house for the level 20 gear I will need.

Perhaps the folks running the game made it initially hard on purpose, so that new players would have to tp through their first life. If that's the case, I think they lose more than they gain. I'm sure many new players get frustrated and quit without spending anything.

Well first life wizards tend to run out of ap and can't kite very well. Use PM or eldritch tree to improve your survivability

[Kylstrem]

The nerf to warlock seemed to have been a "let's throw the whiners a bone".

When it was announced, there were the following knee-jerk reactions on these forums:

From the NERF WARLOCK CROWD: This is the best news ever. HA HA HA... Suck it, Warlock fans.

From the Aura/Burst/Blast Warlock fans: Why are you destroying Warlock and nerfing the hell out of it? You owe me money since I paid just to be able to do this. I will quit DDO over this.

Neither group actually put any thought into it or crunched the numbers.


So what makes warlock so "powerful" in Heroic quests.

1. Ability to complete quests with very little concern about dying. Blur, displacement, ranged attack that hits multiple mobs at once that allows kiting, Stanch, Shining Through... web and Evard's for CC.

2. Easy-to-get ADEQUATE DPS to kill stuff fast enough. More DPS that 90% of other builds without needing to sacrifice much of anything nor needing any special gear.

3. Enough DPS and Survivability to take out any boss faster than 90% of other builds out there. It may not kill a boss the fastest, but it is not a long-drawn slug-fest that eats up resources. Can spam cone/aura/blasts for as long as needed with no ammo/spell point resources spent.... and no real danger of dying.


The arguments about whether it has HIGH DPS or not are red-herrings. The DPS is not the highest or close to it on single mobs. However, nothing can mow down (as easily and with no real player skill) many mobs at once faster than a warlock in heroic quests, especially after Cone is available.

And no real sacrifices/tough choices are necessary when levelling. Everything works together with good synergy.

Since devs nerfed the Burst and the Spirit Blast, all those Warlocks who were relying on that do not have a DEAD build. The only thing they have to change is to do an Enhancement reset, and get Cone in the Soul Eater tree. It's not as EASY as the Aura/Burst/Blast build... but is still EASIER than 95% of other builds. They may have wasted MAXIMIZE/EMPOWER feats, but it is still not that big of a difference. They can talk to fred to change those to Quicken and Heighten so they can start working on the PK, FOD, Circle of Death, Soul Trap, Flesh to Stone, Wail, etc.


I did run across one Warlock this weekend that was still using Burst/Blast/Aura. Some people seem to be stubborn or just copied this build and will not even try to experiment with a slightly different style.

I've been running through my RTR lives since Thursday and have noticed no real "slow-down" in how fast I'm mowing through R1/R2 quests on my Cone/Necrolock.

So for the two groups mentioned above:
1) If you were celebrating the Warlock Nerf, you don't really understand what makes the warlock such an easy button. You shouldn't be requesting nerfs and Devs shouldn't be listening to you.
2) For those wailing and gnashing their teeth at the Warlock nerf, you don't really understand what makes warlock such an easy button. Devs should not be listening to you either. And you really need to try to learn more about the game mechanics before complaining.

[Arch-Necromancer]

The arguments about whether it has HIGH DPS or not are red-herrings. The DPS is not the highest or close to it on single mobs. However, nothing can mow down (as easily and with no real player skill) many mobs at once faster than a warlock in heroic quests, especially after Cone is available.

And no real sacrifices/tough choices are necessary when levelling. Everything works together with good synergy.

Since devs nerfed the Burst and the Spirit Blast, all those Warlocks who were relying on that do not have a DEAD build. The only thing they have to change is to do an Enhancement reset, and get Cone in the Soul Eater tree. It's not as EASY as the Aura/Burst/Blast build... but is still EASIER than 95% of other builds. They may have wasted MAXIMIZE/EMPOWER feats, but it is still not that big of a difference. They can talk to fred to change those to Quicken and Heighten so they can start working on the PK, FOD, Circle of Death, Soul Trap, Flesh to Stone, Wail, etc.

You pointed that out nicely.

That's why I whine about nerfing Cone shape by reducing its spellpower damage scale from 130% to somewhere closer to Chain shape's 95%.

100%, 105%, 110% spellpower damage scale for Cone should make shapes more balanced instead of Cone being better than others.

[Dnarth]

Seem to be finding the warlock nerf much ado about nothing. Heroic lock doing just fine.

[zehnvhex]

Nerf cone to 95% spellpower, make blasts all require a reflex DC evo check, remove displacement and shield spells from spellbook.

Warlock still good for anybody with past lives and game knowledge (Charm build on R3~5 = fun!). No longer ezmoad 3 button press for first/second life gimps.

[Morroiel]

Nerf cone to 95% spellpower, make blasts all require a reflex DC evo check, remove displacement and shield spells from spellbook.

Warlock still good for anybody with past lives and game knowledge (Charm build on R3~5 = fun!). No longer ezmoad 3 button press for first/second life gimps.

I agree with adding DC to blast with the exception that its not prone to evasion. In truth, I think doing this would have the desired effect on aoe trash dps.

LMAO about removing displace and shield spells though - all this would do would hurt newer players without displace clickies and if you got rid of shield, people would just switch to nightshield (and if you got rid of that they'd just use wands / scrolls). Just for the record, I switch out displace for ddoor once I have access to gs clickies anyways.

As of right now people have a choice to either farm out displace clickies (if they are new) or to forgo a vital level 3 spell slot (e.g. fear).

[goodspeed]

I agree with adding DC to blast with the exception that its not prone to evasion. In truth, I think doing this would have the desired effect on aoe trash dps.

LMAO about removing displace and shield spells though - all this would do would hurt newer players without displace clickies and if you got rid of shield, people would just switch to nightshield (and if you got rid of that they'd just use wands / scrolls). Just for the record, I switch out displace for ddoor once I have access to gs clickies anyways.

As of right now people have a choice to either farm out displace clickies (if they are new) or to forgo a vital level 3 spell slot (e.g. fear).

People actually take the shield spell? Hell the lock seems to have more umd then a full on 20 arti. I dont think any of those would really hurt. Displace would be annoying though.

Now put a reflex save on those bursts and you just murdered that tree hands down.

[Morroiel]

People actually take the shield spell? Hell the lock seems to have more umd then a full on 20 arti. I dont think any of those would really hurt. Displace would be annoying though.

Now put a reflex save on those bursts and you just murdered that tree hands down.

Sorry I should have qualified - I meant put a reflex save on the eldritch blast damage meaning the following:

GOO warlock cone shaped - each mob would roll a reflex save for half of the primary part (force/evil/piercing) of the blast and then roll a will save for half of the pact (acid) part of the blast.

I personally would keep the light damage added by ES as unsaveable, same with the chaotic damage added in souleater. The goal would be to eliminate any pretense of people treating charisma as a dump stat.

[zehnvhex]

all this would do would hurt newer players without displace clickies

Which is precisely why Warlock is such a 'powerful' class. It isn't because veterans are doing wonderful things with it. Veterans are rolling through content on whatever freaking build we want. I just did a centered longsword monk/ranger/fvs because why the heck not and trucked R2 with it.

If you want to see fewer warlocks for whatever reason, then you need to make it less attractive to the newbs. Put up some hurdles. If you took away DC checks and mob immunities on sorcerer spells, guess which class would suddenly be really freaking popular. Oh and just toss on a 5% chance to cause anything you hit to be stunned for 10 seconds because why not (pro tip, warlock confusion is really, really freaking good).

[AzureDragonas]

Does anyone know any valid reason why Utterdark Blast ignores enemy alignment while spells like holy smite | Unholy Blight doesn't. Spells states that x damage spell can't harm x aligned mobs and does only half to neutral and full to opposite, if utterdark blast followed this logic also it wouldn't harm mobs like skeletons [neutral evil], it would add 3rd spellpower/crit needed for warlock, because single light spell power won't be covering most main damage sources at same time and that would make warlocks more in tact with other casters who focus on wider variety of spellpowers.