Warlock NERF Again

[nokowi]

I love how the proof that warlock isn't OP given in this thread is ...

Except that those wanting change need to provide the proof.

Claiming Warlock is OP in groups while posting solo runs. Limiting discussion to ONE quest that is not challenging, and favors AoE builds and run speed.

We have the Warlock is OP people openly admitting that groups do better with builds other than Warlock, refusing to provide any group Warlock videos, using videos before the latest nerf as proof, etc.

You have really made a joke of trying to convince anyone change needs to happen.

If you really want a change, do the things required to show a change is needed.

If you can't do that, please stop the complaining.

[BigErkyKid]

I identify as a casual gamer and I don't consider 20 hours week to be limited, but somewhere between heavy and excessive. I realize there are people that play much more than I do and many that play less.

I am just quoting you there, apologies if the quote is not perfect. In any case, regardless of whether it is 10-20-30 hours, the point is that we all have limited time to play the game. Often there are activities in game that are very time consuming (getting LGS, slavers sets, PLs, ePLs). They require to input a serious amount of gameplay, and hopefully have fun with it. This is why a lot of people consider "efficiency" (how time consuming, failure prone, and so on is running content) an important point in choosing builds. Efficiency is highly related to power, as it is simpler to run content on a powerful toon than on a flavor toon.

I wouldn't exactly say I chase FOTM builds. Every build I am running was created by me - not copied.

FOTM not as in copying, but as in following the current meta.

That is the funnest part of the game for me- trying to come up with builds that are 100% legitimate and work well.

It is lots of fun for me too.

I never switched out of assassin because it's weak - it's way stronger than it used to be and I played it before the pass.

You said, in your own words and in this thread, that you only play over performing builds. And that despite liking very much the assassin, you switched out of it because it is not good for the current content.

So yes, assassin is strong, but you decided that it is not strong enough (relative to other builds) to run current content.

And for me this is the strongest proof that anyone can present to you of imbalance. Because you "revealed" your preference by simply not playing it, and then you were honest enough to explain why.

Like you, there are plenty of players that like assassins, and other archetypes, and yet don't play them because they feel week compared to other builds nowadays. We have examples in this thread of people saying exactly this.

This is not only something that happens with assassin. Q-staff builds are extremely rare, as are bards (and many others), in the "end game scene". And it not only affects minmaxxers, but the populace at large, as can be obviously seen by the relative prevalence of different classes in the WHO tab.

Nobody likes to feel systematically weaker than the other party members. A respondent to the balance pass survey put it very well: "I play to feel awesome". Now an assassin in a party of warlocks and shiradi spammers is gonna have a hard time feeling awesome. That's why I haven't seen an assassin (prior to my current 2 weeks break) in my cap play in weeks. Again, this is not limited to assassins, but to plenty of other archetypes.

A lot of the people that I see arguing very vigorously against balance actions are NOT playing the underperforming builds. It is very easy to claim everything is fine when you are sitting at the top of the food chain.

The argument often used is that perfect balance is not possible. Obviously, it isn't. No one has ever claimed that, so please do stop repeating it. The point being made is that the imbalance is too large. And it is quite obvious that there is a big imbalance, as one can just look at what is being played in the game. Do around 1/3-1/2 of the epic play population love warlocks because of the nostalgia of playing them as kids in PnP? Or is it that the class packs a massive easy button that makes playing some other builds pointless? I think we know the answer.

As you and others have said, this does not mean that warlock is the bestamest class. There are more powerful builds out there. But it is a representative of the things present in most overperforming builds. Good tankiness (either via toughness or ranged), possibility to have good self healing, focus on no-save abilities, good AOE damage, and finally good burst damage for bosses.

[Chai]

You said, in your own words and in this thread, that you only play over performing builds. And that despite liking very much the assassin, you switched out of it because it is not good for the current content.

So yes, assassin is strong, but you decided that it is not strong enough (relative to other builds) to run current content.

And for me this is the strongest proof that anyone can present to you of imbalance. Because you "revealed" your preference by simply not playing it, and then you were honest enough to explain why.

Like you, there are plenty of players that like assassins, and other archetypes, and yet don't play them because they feel week compared to other builds nowadays. We have examples in this thread of people saying exactly this.

This is not only something that happens with assassin. Q-staff builds are extremely rare, as are bards (and many others), in the "end game scene". And it not only affects minmaxxers, but the populace at large, as can be obviously seen by the relative prevalence of different classes in the WHO tab.

Nobody likes to feel systematically weaker than the other party members. A respondent to the balance pass survey put it very well: "I play to feel awesome". Now an assassin in a party of warlocks and shiradi spammers is gonna have a hard time feeling awesome. That's why I haven't seen an assassin (prior to my current 2 weeks break) in my cap play in weeks. Again, this is not limited to assassins, but to plenty of other archetypes.

A lot of the people that I see arguing very vigorously against balance actions are NOT playing the underperforming builds. It is very easy to claim everything is fine when you are sitting at the top of the food chain.

The assassin issue would be fixed by content balance, not by nerfing what people believe to be the top of the meta over and over again. No amount of nerfing other things will make assassin a good AOE build. Adjusting the content so some of it favors single target DPS will put assassin in a better spot however.

As I stated before, the major reason assassin isn't considered powerful is it doesn't AOE well, and most content in this game favors AOE builds. If there was enough content which had 1-2 mobs per encounter with 10X the HP of regular trash mobs right now, assassin would be top of the meta in that content. (it would also be the next thing people would flock to the forums to demand nerfs of because it ruins their fun). AOE builds would be viable, but nowhere near optimal, in the same content.

This would also resolve a large portion of the lag issue, because less active mobs means less lag.

The argument often used is that perfect balance is not possible. Obviously, it isn't. No one has ever claimed that, so please do stop repeating it. The point being made is that the imbalance is too large. And it is quite obvious that there is a big imbalance, as one can just look at what is being played in the game. Do around 1/3-1/2 of the epic play population love warlocks because of the nostalgia of playing them as kids in PnP? Or is it that the class packs a massive easy button that makes playing some other builds pointless? I think we know the answer.

As you and others have said, this does not mean that warlock is the bestamest class. There are more powerful builds out there. But it is a representative of the things present in most overperforming builds. Good tankiness (either via toughness or ranged), possibility to have good self healing, focus on no-save abilities, good AOE damage, and finally good burst damage for bosses.

Bolded claim is incorrect. You are asking for nerfs to things you believe to be OP in 99.999% of the content because its not fair to things which are OP in 99.998% of the content. The more you argue against content balance being the answer, the more the "too much of an imbalance" claim leaks like a siv.

The reason people like warlocks is its easier entry into LE, without having to TR over and over again. In a meta that changes every 3-6months people no longer want to put in the time to refine a character, only to have it nerfed down because it "ruins peoples fun" like their paladin, barbarian, and bard did. At some point, those people who paid to trot their old parked characters out and configure them for the new meta each time Turbine did a pass are now re-parking them, because the demanded nerfs were acted on and turned their A level builds into C level builds. Turbine doesn't want to lose more money over something like this, so while they will give you a token adjustment here and there, they wont likely be taking warlock players toys away from them any time soon. Those toys were bought and paid for, fair and square, after all.

If you feel playing some other builds is pointless, then the prudent thing to do is stop asking for nerfs. Continuing to demand nerfs is just advocating for the next "pointless build" on the list, which you wont want to play when the meta changes again. Case in point, by degree, paladin, bard, and barbarian would be less "pointless" now if Turbine had not acted on the feedback of those demanding nerfs and adjusted them downward.

[BigErkyKid]

T The more you argue against content balance being the answer, the more the "too much of an imbalance" claim leaks like a siv.

What is more likely, that turbine recodes 100+ epic quests, or that they change some power parameters in builds? I would love for content to be altered, but frankly, it is almost impossible. How about some AI changes, and some more lore-coherent quest layout? And randomization please! But frankly this is not happening.

The closest we are getting is reaper, but it's current implementation is in the 1-shot realm, and I have never been a fan of that.

In a meta that changes every 3-6months people no longer want to put in the time to refine a character, only to have it nerfed down because it "ruins peoples fun" like their paladin, barbarian, and bard did.

Those builds have been hardly nerfed, the reason why power gamers and the players at large don't play them so much anymore is that there are more powerful builds out there. I do agree that a lot of people don't want to put much time into a single archetype, but this is not necessarily nerfs (the examples above weren't significantly nerfed), but rather because the new FOTM comes and then the old one is belittled.

At some point, those people who paid to trot their old parked characters out and configure them for the new meta each time Turbine did a pass are now re-parking them, because the demanded nerfs were acted on and turned their A level builds into C level builds.

Except for mortal fear nerfs, I cannot think of any other recent significant nerfs to builds. Bard was outclassed by paladin, to then fall to barbarian, which was harder to play than mechanic, which is worse for a lot of content than warlock; in turn shiradi has come back due to spell crit damage resurgence, etc.

This is an oversimplification, but not by much.

If you feel playing some other builds is pointless, then the prudent thing to do is stop asking for nerfs. Continuing to demand nerfs is just advocating for the next "pointless build" on the list, which you wont want to play when the meta changes again

.

The builds that feel pointless have NOT been nerfed. They are just increasingly more powerful things out there.

[slarden]

You said, in your own words and in this thread, that you only play over performing builds. And that despite liking very much the assassin, you switched out of it because it is not good for the current content.

So yes, assassin is strong, but you decided that it is not strong enough (relative to other builds) to run current content.

And for me this is the strongest proof that anyone can present to you of imbalance. Because you "revealed" your preference by simply not playing it, and then you were honest enough to explain why.

Like you, there are plenty of players that like assassins, and other archetypes, and yet don't play them because they feel week compared to other builds nowadays. We have examples in this thread of people saying exactly this.

This is not only something that happens with assassin. Q-staff builds are extremely rare, as are bards (and many others), in the "end game scene". And it not only affects minmaxxers, but the populace at large, as can be obviously seen by the relative prevalence of different classes in the WHO tab.

Nobody likes to feel systematically weaker than the other party members. A respondent to the balance pass survey put it very well: "I play to feel awesome". Now an assassin in a party of warlocks and shiradi spammers is gonna have a hard time feeling awesome. That's why I haven't seen an assassin (prior to my current 2 weeks break) in my cap play in weeks. Again, this is not limited to assassins, but to plenty of other archetypes.

A lot of the people that I see arguing very vigorously against balance actions are NOT playing the underperforming builds. It is very easy to claim everything is fine when you are sitting at the top of the food chain.

The argument often used is that perfect balance is not possible. Obviously, it isn't. No one has ever claimed that, so please do stop repeating it. The point being made is that the imbalance is too large. And it is quite obvious that there is a big imbalance, as one can just look at what is being played in the game. Do around 1/3-1/2 of the epic play population love warlocks because of the nostalgia of playing them as kids in PnP? Or is it that the class packs a massive easy button that makes playing some other builds pointless? I think we know the answer.

As you and others have said, this does not mean that warlock is the bestamest class. There are more powerful builds out there. But it is a representative of the things present in most overperforming builds. Good tankiness (either via toughness or ranged), possibility to have good self healing, focus on no-save abilities, good AOE damage, and finally good burst damage for bosses.

My main reason for switching out of assassin has nothing to do with the class being weak. Assassin has some of the best single-target dps in the game along with the assassinate ability and some stealth options.

My frustration with assassin is the need to have a full set of swap gear for boss fights in LE Shroud part 2, part 5 to a lesser extent and part 4. This is due to the lower hp and prr that are native to the rogue class. I have too many alts to run so many raids for just swap gear. So I opted for a build that doesn't require as much gearing not necessarily a more powerful build.

Assassin is really strong in all other LE content. In LE Slavers grouping is a zerg fest so yeah I would need to alter my playstyle to keep up with the party. I think assassin can still solo the whole thing more slowly as it's primary strength is single target dps and stealth. There is some content where assassin is not only good, but it really shines.

I agree warlock has great aoe damage as do casters in general. I still think most melees end up with over 200 PRR blitzing (70 PRR from blitz) which is about the same a warlock will get from shield feats and class traits combined assuming equivalent gearing levels. The next quest chain shouldn't be the same as slavers - specifically the devs should specifically design the content so aoe builds don't dominate as they do in slavers.

Warlock itself has no self healing only temp hp mainly from shining through which I am perfectly fine giving up. Brilliance provides significantly less than PM or cleric aura so I don't see that as much of a problem. If they get rid of shining through I don't really see any great self healing from the class itself. If they get rid of shining through I think you will see more warlocks switch to divine crusader which is a perfectly fine destiny already. Or alternatively twisting in consecration/sacred ground in addition to cocoon.

I do agree shining through is problematic in general as it allows warlocks to withstand the one big blow others may not be able to take due to the temp hp bonus. If they leave brilliance they can just remove shining through and replace it with the ability to reduce spell arcane spell failure perhaps as other classes have.

[Vanhooger]

I am just quoting you there, apologies if the quote is not perfect. In any case, regardless of whether it is 10-20-30 hours, the point is that we all have limited time to play the game. Often there are activities in game that are very time consuming (getting LGS, slavers sets, PLs, ePLs). They require to input a serious amount of gameplay, and hopefully have fun with it. This is why a lot of people consider "efficiency" (how time consuming, failure prone, and so on is running content) an important point in choosing builds. Efficiency is highly related to power, as it is simpler to run content on a powerful toon than on a flavor toon.


FOTM not as in copying, but as in following the current meta.


It is lots of fun for me too.


You said, in your own words and in this thread, that you only play over performing builds. And that despite liking very much the assassin, you switched out of it because it is not good for the current content.

So yes, assassin is strong, but you decided that it is not strong enough (relative to other builds) to run current content.

And for me this is the strongest proof that anyone can present to you of imbalance. Because you "revealed" your preference by simply not playing it, and then you were honest enough to explain why.

Like you, there are plenty of players that like assassins, and other archetypes, and yet don't play them because they feel week compared to other builds nowadays. We have examples in this thread of people saying exactly this.

This is not only something that happens with assassin. Q-staff builds are extremely rare, as are bards (and many others), in the "end game scene". And it not only affects minmaxxers, but the populace at large, as can be obviously seen by the relative prevalence of different classes in the WHO tab.

Nobody likes to feel systematically weaker than the other party members. A respondent to the balance pass survey put it very well: "I play to feel awesome". Now an assassin in a party of warlocks and shiradi spammers is gonna have a hard time feeling awesome. That's why I haven't seen an assassin (prior to my current 2 weeks break) in my cap play in weeks. Again, this is not limited to assassins, but to plenty of other archetypes.

A lot of the people that I see arguing very vigorously against balance actions are NOT playing the underperforming builds. It is very easy to claim everything is fine when you are sitting at the top of the food chain.

The argument often used is that perfect balance is not possible. Obviously, it isn't. No one has ever claimed that, so please do stop repeating it. The point being made is that the imbalance is too large. And it is quite obvious that there is a big imbalance, as one can just look at what is being played in the game. Do around 1/3-1/2 of the epic play population love warlocks because of the nostalgia of playing them as kids in PnP? Or is it that the class packs a massive easy button that makes playing some other builds pointless? I think we know the answer.

As you and others have said, this does not mean that warlock is the bestamest class. There are more powerful builds out there. But it is a representative of the things present in most overperforming builds. Good tankiness (either via toughness or ranged), possibility to have good self healing, focus on no-save abilities, good AOE damage, and finally good burst damage for bosses.

Hey mate, stop try convince them, seriously.

I said Warlock has one of the the top DPS, they wanted proof but they don't accept it.

I said spell critical multiplier is OP, but they keep saying is not while shiradi/wizard&sorc zombie and Wk do maximize exactly this. If that wasn't OP they wouldn't do it, and when you ask about it to some poster do not even get an answer.

I gave them a screenshot with a comparison time WK vs other classess, and we know how much easier in time/skill and resources it was on a Wk.

Screenshot wasn't enough so it came down to speedrun, lol.

After that they said the comparison on solo isn't a valid point since this is an mmo so you have to prove that 2 or more warlock are over performing. Why would I even prove that when 1/4 of my server is warlock at cap, 0 assassin, 0 acrobat, 1 sorcerer and maybe 4-5 fleshy monk/ kensai, people already
know it.

Let them play they're over performing build, since they're happy with them, and let's hope reaper will challenge all classes in the same way.

Let them choose how balance should be while they don't even play ddo since the game is too easy so they need to take a break, but still defending OP builds.

[Ulfo]

I said Warlock has one of the the top DPS

And developers extremely clearly told that they do not enter even the Top 5... but we have to trust you, but not them, truly? 8)

[Vanhooger]

And developers extremely clearly told that they do not enter even the Top 5... but we have to trust you, but not them, truly? 8)

So why they keep nerf them?

[Rys]

And developers extremely clearly told that they do not enter even the Top 5... but we have to trust you, but not them, truly? 8)

If the developers measure the power of the builds by beating on the dummy kobolds, I would rather believe a random forumite.

[BigErkyKid]

Why would I even prove that when 1/4 of my server is warlock at cap, 0 assassin, 0 acrobat, 1 sorcerer and maybe 4-5 fleshy monk/ kensai, people already know it.
.

This is what I think. Plenty of people around here saying those classes and builds are fine, and yet its super rare to spot them in epic play in the servers.

Put your money where your mouth is, right?

[Ulfo]

So why they keep nerf them?

I'm not dev, you know...

If the developers measure the power of the builds by beating on the dummy kobolds, I would rather believe a random forumite.

If, yea... and if no? 8)

[Wizza]

And developers extremely clearly told that they do not enter even the Top 5... but we have to trust you, but not them, truly? 8)

Developers also promised an endgame 2 years ago, told us LGS was a success, that we would have more augments, that the remnant vendor would have his items updated regularly, that "maybe if no when sometime we will update cove items", that Deathwyrm's lag was also caused by Spell wards and not by the 5000 shadows that spawn, that Manyshot caused lag too.

I can go on for a day, or two.

[Eryhn]

Developers also promised an endgame 2 years ago, told us LGS was a success, that we would have more augments, that the remnant vendor would have his items updated regularly, that "maybe if no when sometime we will update cove items", that Deathwyrm's lag was also caused by Spell wards and not by the 5000 shadows that spawn, that Manyshot caused lag too.

I can go on for a day, or two.

LGS "great success" stil my favorite XD

[Wizza]

LGS "great success" stil my favorite XD

At this day, still not a single word has been spoken by the Devs about the active clickies being overpriced, and just weak in general.

[slarden]

Hey mate, stop try convince them, seriously.

I said Warlock has one of the the top DPS, they wanted proof but they don't accept it.

I said spell critical multiplier is OP, but they keep saying is not while shiradi/wizard&sorc zombie and Wk do maximize exactly this. If that wasn't OP they wouldn't do it, and when you ask about it to some poster do not even get an answer.

I gave them a screenshot with a comparison time WK vs other classess, and we know how much easier in time/skill and resources it was on a Wk.

Screenshot wasn't enough so it came down to speedrun, lol.

After that they said the comparison on solo isn't a valid point since this is an mmo so you have to prove that 2 or more warlock are over performing. Why would I even prove that when 1/4 of my server is warlock at cap, 0 assassin, 0 acrobat, 1 sorcerer and maybe 4-5 fleshy monk/ kensai, people already
know it.

Let them play they're over performing build, since they're happy with them, and let's hope reaper will challenge all classes in the same way.

Let them choose how balance should be while they don't even play ddo since the game is too easy so they need to take a break, but still defending OP builds.

I really don't see where you proved anything. A screen shot isn't needed or even useful to prove an argument that can be proven or disproven fully by math.

Warlock crit damage boost is just a matter of simple math is all. I would think wave is bigger factor to dps than TS Capstone and hellball bug for people that use that exploit. 3x eld blast scaled to 150% is doing 4.5x damage compared to either of the ES blasts which are 1x eld blast scaled to 100% - this is before the bonus light damage but there is no way the bonus light damage comes close to covering that difference. It just requires better aim and grouping up is all compared to the blasts. Double hellball is no small bug either and there is no way to know whether it is used or not which is why math is a more neutral and pure way to measure it.

Builds already get 100% base damage, 100% bonus base crit damage, 25% scion of fire, 36% ender (or alternatively 35% 1 piece set if using an element). So Crit damage goes from 261% to 321% on crits but you also give up alot from the other trees to get that last 30% from the TS capstone bringing you from 291% to 321% on crits only. 321/291 = 10.3% on crits only. So assume 50% crits you are getting a 10% damage boost 50% of the time from the capstone. This ends up being close to a 9% boost to dps overall since crit damage is the bulk of total damage.

I am fine if they nerf warlock crit damage as part of a balance pass along with nerfing other builds. I just don't think it's any more op than alot of things including master of knowledge, whirling wrists, blitz, unyielding sentinel stacking 20% hp bonus. The appeal of TS as a secondary tree for ES builds is the combination of Utterdark blast, 30% Crit and 4 extra pact damage for an ES build. Combined it's a bigger boost than SE as a secondary tree for an ES build.

For a build based on tier 5 SE and TS Capstone the appeal is crit chance from SE and crit damage from TS. It's a harder build to pull off for someone without past lifes and gear (due to survivability) but with LGS, slavers and cc gear it doesn't really have survivability issues any more. LGS hp makes alot of builds viable that would otherwise be short on hp.

[nokowi]

I am just quoting you there, apologies if the quote is not perfect. In any case, regardless of whether it is 10-20-30 hours, the point is that we all have limited time to play the game. Often there are activities in game that are very time consuming (getting LGS, slavers sets, PLs, ePLs). They require to input a serious amount of gameplay, and hopefully have fun with it. This is why a lot of people consider "efficiency" (how time consuming, failure prone, and so on is running content) an important point in choosing builds. Efficiency is highly related to power, as it is simpler to run content on a powerful toon than on a flavor toon.


FOTM not as in copying, but as in following the current meta.


It is lots of fun for me too.


You said, in your own words and in this thread, that you only play over performing builds. And that despite liking very much the assassin, you switched out of it because it is not good for the current content.

So yes, assassin is strong, but you decided that it is not strong enough (relative to other builds) to run current content.

And for me this is the strongest proof that anyone can present to you of imbalance. Because you "revealed" your preference by simply not playing it, and then you were honest enough to explain why.

Like you, there are plenty of players that like assassins, and other archetypes, and yet don't play them because they feel week compared to other builds nowadays. We have examples in this thread of people saying exactly this.

This is not only something that happens with assassin. Q-staff builds are extremely rare, as are bards (and many others), in the "end game scene". And it not only affects minmaxxers, but the populace at large, as can be obviously seen by the relative prevalence of different classes in the WHO tab.

Nobody likes to feel systematically weaker than the other party members. A respondent to the balance pass survey put it very well: "I play to feel awesome". Now an assassin in a party of warlocks and shiradi spammers is gonna have a hard time feeling awesome. That's why I haven't seen an assassin (prior to my current 2 weeks break) in my cap play in weeks. Again, this is not limited to assassins, but to plenty of other archetypes.

A lot of the people that I see arguing very vigorously against balance actions are NOT playing the underperforming builds. It is very easy to claim everything is fine when you are sitting at the top of the food chain.

The argument often used is that perfect balance is not possible. Obviously, it isn't. No one has ever claimed that, so please do stop repeating it. The point being made is that the imbalance is too large. And it is quite obvious that there is a big imbalance, as one can just look at what is being played in the game. Do around 1/3-1/2 of the epic play population love warlocks because of the nostalgia of playing them as kids in PnP? Or is it that the class packs a massive easy button that makes playing some other builds pointless? I think we know the answer.

As you and others have said, this does not mean that warlock is the bestamest class. There are more powerful builds out there. But it is a representative of the things present in most overperforming builds. Good tankiness (either via toughness or ranged), possibility to have good self healing, focus on no-save abilities, good AOE damage, and finally good burst damage for bosses.

So to summarize
1. People play to feel awesome and have limited time
2. Warlock Provides awesomeness and efficient play
3. Devs need to change Warlock?

How do you get to #3?

All your observations seem to support Warlock (and given you think classes need to be largely the same also buffing everyone else to Warlock level) rather than nerfing Warlock to assassin level.

I in no way support any buffing, I just don't follow your thought process.

[nokowi]

Hey mate, stop try convince them, seriously.

I said Warlock has one of the the top DPS, they wanted proof but they don't accept it.

I said spell critical multiplier is OP, but they keep saying is not while shiradi/wizard&sorc zombie and Wk do maximize exactly this. If that wasn't OP they wouldn't do it, and when you ask about it to some poster do not even get an answer.

I gave them a screenshot with a comparison time WK vs other classess, and we know how much easier in time/skill and resources it was on a Wk.

Screenshot wasn't enough so it came down to speedrun, lol.

After that they said the comparison on solo isn't a valid point since this is an mmo so you have to prove that 2 or more warlock are over performing. Why would I even prove that when 1/4 of my server is warlock at cap, 0 assassin, 0 acrobat, 1 sorcerer and maybe 4-5 fleshy monk/ kensai, people already
know it.

Let them play they're over performing build, since they're happy with them, and let's hope reaper will challenge all classes in the same way.

Let them choose how balance should be while they don't even play ddo since the game is too easy so they need to take a break, but still defending OP builds.

I spelled out what you would need to do to prove Warlock is OP in groups. You ran away in every case, argued with me that Warlocks were better than anyone else in groups, and then proved yourself wrong by saying a group with Furyshotter was better than without.

In other words you didn't provide any of the "proof" asked for.

It's telling that you were too scared to post 4 person group Warlock videos. Scared some other 4 person team might do better and prove you wrong?

It's telling the only videos are in Slavers. Scared that power measured in a non challenging quest might differ from a challenging quest?

The argument was that Warlock is so OP it invalidates other classes (Big Erky - laughable) or maybe in your case that they are just better in groups (could be true but is unproven).

Videos show Warlock is a great class for soloing non challenging content, and do not make the argument this thread was concerned about.

If you demand change, you need to do the work to show change is needed.

[Vanhooger]

I spelled out what you would need to do to prove Warlock is OP in groups. You ran away in every case, argued with me that Warlocks were better than anyone else in groups, and then proved yourself wrong by saying a group with Furyshotter was better than without.

In other words you didn't provide any of the "proof" asked for.

It's telling that you were too scared to post 4 person group Warlock videos. Scared some other 4 person team might do better and prove you wrong?

It's telling the only videos are in Slavers. Scared that power measured in a non challenging quest might differ from a challenging quest?

The argument was that Warlock is so OP it invalidates other classes (Big Erky - laughable) or maybe in your case that they are just better in groups (could be true but is unproven).

Videos show Warlock is a great class for soloing non challenging content, and do not make the argument this thread was concerned about.

If you demand change, you need to do the work to show change is needed.

Alright alright you always right anyway, you are uber player in ddo we all know that by now.

I ran away...lol you the only one who didn't post anything in this thread yet, so please.

If someone doesn't think like you do isn't good enough as if it was said by you.

The screenshot provide enough things, if you don't want to see threw it I honestly don't care. Have a good day.

[nokowi]

Alright alright you always right anyway, you are uber player in ddo we all know that now.

If someone doesn't think like you do isn't good enough as if it was said by you.

The screenshot provide enough things, if you don't want to see threw it I honestly don't care.

Warlock is fine please buff it, is not easy button enough.

If you were to read the full thread (not asking you to), you would see I am not knowledgeable about Warlock.

1. Warlocks don't dominate content I am in (I haven't played Slavers) any more than most top builds.
2. I compete quite well on a melee rogue in much of the content
3. I have said content is too easy so there is no reason to buff
4. I haven't argued that Warlock is not OP, simply that the claims they dominate in groups to the point others cant contribute is ridiculous.

If you want change, you have to prove to devs (not me) that Warlock is OP in groups. You simply haven't done that, even though I tried to help you show how to do it.

Don't blame me for your failures. It has nothing to do with who is an uber player. Even if you are a far better player than me, your "proof" for change is poor at best.

[Vanhooger]

If you were to read the full thread (not asking you to), you would see I am not knowledgeable about Warlock.

1. Warlocks don't dominate content I am in (I haven't played Slavers)
2. I compete quite well on a melee rogue in much of the content
3. I have said content is too easy so there is no reason to buff
4. I haven't argued that Warlock is not OP, simply that the claims they dominate in groups to the point others cant contribute is ridiculous.

If you want change, you have to prove to devs (not me) that Warlock is OP in groups. You simply haven't done that, even though I tried to help you show how to do it.

Don't blame me for your failures. It has nothing to do with who is an uber player. Even if you are a far better player than me, your "proof" for change is poor at best.

I don't blame anyone.
What did I fail?
I say what is my ddo game experience that surely differ from yours.
Different point of views.