Warlock NERF Again

[BigErkyKid]

Hey, I would love to see you doing it as an assassin.

Regarding you're question.

Time was just one factor. You need to put in player skill (while using warlock, so none) and resources used (warlock none). Is this balanced?

Since as you said this is an MMO, why would I play my melee monk in party where there is 2 warlock, 1 shiradi spammer a shruri thrower or any other OP build? I would rather log my warlock and click 2 button, since my monk will just pike.

As well grinding for loot make everyone want to be a warlock. Why would I run xxx time slavers on my fleshy melee when we all have the option to do it better, faster, brain dead, and no resource involved?

Why would I group if I have to wait for some pepole joining or else die and go rescue them, when I can easily speed run solo with my uber warlock?

This, to you, look like an MMO oriented on grouping?

DDO, at least on my server has become 2 to 4 warlock in every single group I join, I wonder why.

Sorcerer, has been defined OP as well in this thread, but I actually see 1 person in my server playing it at cap, why?

This. Except that it isn't restricted to warlock. Warlock has attracted much grief because it breaks the common rules in ddo. Caster without dc and little mana management. Then both cc and damage affecting all mobs.

But as you say why play your monk when you can do everything better in another build? And in groups, the power disparity is do big that become kind of a joke.

[2pc2]

Pure sorcs and shuri builds are overperforming builds and also need nerfs as much as warlocks.

You should apply to yourself you own advice and elaborate some

Feel free to provide proof rather than just ranting. .

Then it should be no problem to provide accurate facts to prove it. Please do so. .

I wish we had more facts coming from the people calling for nerfs rather than just lolz.

[2pc2]

You need to come to sarlona if you want to see the best throwers in action. I almost never see them die because the dps is so top-tier nothing gets close.

Sure... Are we suposed to believe that after seeing how much stuff you cound't back up you pulled out of thin air in this same thread ?

35 pages later and still not a single shuriken completion, fast or not, is very telling if you ask me .

[2pc2]

Yawn~

Just to clarify:

Why? The devs have already done the tests and they know warlock isn't top tier dps.

Beliveme, it does.

I agree. Warlocks need to be nerfed more. The ES nerf was rather pointless. Thanks for reminding me to chime in to counter your constant protectionism of the worst easy-button, group-negative class ever created for this game.

Then it should be no problem to provide accurate facts to prove it. Please do so. .

Feel free to provide proof rather than just ranting. .

I wish we had more facts coming from the people calling for nerfs rather than just lolz.

Last part is the most interesting....



Feel free to provide proof of a kensei or a ranged build doing that kind of aoe damage while effectively tanking 5 LE bosses from the most new content.

I make no claims of being uber, just persistent and transparent - not using any undisclosed exploits.

Yes I am rolling over slavers with my warlock.
Yes I am rolling over slavers with my wizard.
Yes I am rolling over slavers with my ranger
Yes I am rolling over slavers with my paladin
Yes I am rolling over slavears with my barbarian

So far I've solo'd slavers chain on warlock, wizard, barbarian, kensai, tempest, fvs, bard

People have already linked videos of other classes soloing that end fight - there is no need for me to repeat it.

People that run with me know what I do in game. I don't need to prove anything.

From time to time I've taken these forum challenges, but given how little credibility you have I won't waste my time.

So far I've solo'd slavers chain on warlock, wizard, barbarian, kensai, tempest, fvs, bard

none of my first 8 characters will meet your requirements.

Feel free to provide proof of a kensei or a ranged build doing that kind of aoe damage while effectively tanking 5 LE bosses from the most new content.

Stop making excuses pls, if after 35 pages you didn’t know how to give some proof by yourself after insisting on others to do so and failed to deliver anything while others did I doubt anyone will take you seriously unless you back up some of your claims first. You could have done it by youself or found a vid in the net that backed up your claims that other classes can overperform like warlocks do yet you failed on both.

If you insist in putting myself, who has made 0 claims of uberness, as an excuse I will be forced to remember how the things really went, and don’t worry, a good laugh is always worth the time.

Even Chai got some avice for you :

A common practice on these forums. Demanding evidence constantly while not submitting ones own premise, so theres room for a verbal retreat in case the demand for evidence is met, using the excuse that evidence doesn't prove those demanding it incorrect, because they never made a claim in the first place. A lack of position also allows those using this tactic to play offense 100% of the time without having to defend their own premise.

Turn that advice inward. If you haven't proven yourself, you have no business demanding said proof of others.

The way it ACTUALLY works, is both parties enter the discussion on equal footing, premise up, and have an on topic discussion. This does however mean, having to reciprocate on every demand you make, and back up said premise with the same proof demanded of others.

Anyone who wants a lopsided discussion where the other party must account for every claim made with evidence, but then has no premise to defend themselves, can be safely ignored, as they really don't have a dog in the fight, other than disagreeing with and challenging the same few people they have a history of always disagreeing with.

[Paleus]

if after 35 pages you didn’t know how to give some proof by yourself after insisting on others to do so and failed to deliver anything while others did I doubt anyone will take you seriously

If after 35 pages and who knows how many posts about Warlocks you all still think you're finally going to convince the other person of anything you're kidding yourselves. So, maybe it's just time to agree to disagree. Don't make me pull out my broom now.

[slarden]

Stop making excuses pls,

Unlike you I have nothing to prove. I have elite completions posted on numerous builds and with quests much harder than slavers at the time it was run compared to slavers now. You are unwilling to even name your server and characters which is quite telling.

However I gave you conditions and am wanting to run it on randiccar to show you what you wish. Since you are unable to complete with a warlock on LE it sort of backs up what others have been saying that the build matters but so does the player.

If you want to get serious and show an LE warlock completion with no deaths that is verified to be your 2pc2 account and not pirated from someone else I will do the same on a fleshy melee - kind of wanting the opportunity actually.

But you won't because you can't. But please continue spending so much time posting, it's amusing I have the power to summon foolishness from a random forumite. The way you use smiley faces and numerous quotes reminds me of another poster....very similar writing styles, similar high defense of sorcs/throwers, and negativity in general. Ironic isn't it.

Oh and Chai's advice was for you by the way lol.

[Wizza]

But you won't because you can't. But please continue spending so much time posting, it's amusing I have the power to summon foolishness from a random forumite. The way you use smiley faces and numerous quotes reminds me of another poster....very similar writing styles, similar high defense of sorcs/throwers, and negativity in general. Ironic isn't it.

Aw. First time you post my name, and then later you go back and hide yourself in some very vague descriptions

And why would I defend throwers lol

[Zoriaan]

I have been forwarded a video of a tempest finishing the end fight of p3 on LE in ~6 minutes. He is a good player, and it is possible, but we already knew that ranger is powerful. How about the other melee archetypes?

Ok so are you now going to start crying about tempest rangers spoiling your fun? Is it not only fair you now demand a ranger nerf as well?

Really the goalposts in this thread have upped and left the planet...

Some classes are better at some quests than other classes...if that tempest ranger can solo the bosses in 6 minutes, by your own definition it is also over performing and like you and your friends want, should be Nerfed as well right?

I just tr'd an alt and played a proper melee for the 1st time in ages... fairly poor geared 8/6/6 barb/fighter/fvs flavour thing...HE and EE streak (solo'd 95% of all quests just to see how "bad" melee really was) all the way up to lvl 26 so far...sure a lock would have done it much faster but i had a blast doing it on a melee...

Really guys let it go...

[Theolin]

This. Except that it isn't restricted to warlock. Warlock has attracted much grief because it breaks the common rules in ddo. Caster without dc and little mana management. Then both cc and damage affecting all mobs.

But as you say why play your monk when you can do everything better in another build? And in groups, the power disparity is do big that become kind of a joke.

CC for warlocks only works if you have the DC ... so the first statement is false.
- and if you are doing DC casting you do have to worry about spell point management.

And for you the power disparity maybe a joke. but,
I have no issue keeping up with warlocks on most of my builds even my clonk.
- The builds I have not figured out how to keep up with are the GXbow Rogues, now those guys put out some serious damage
& this is not to say I don't have ones who cannot ... my S&B pally needs some serious love in the DPS catagory (but I know this is my issue with how I built it)

And if you really want to see how things stack up,
Next time lama land is up go play with the kobalds ... try to take a couple of each down on several different builds.
For me, not only do warlocks not even compete with the high DPS toons, they are not even in the same ballpark.

I am not saying they are hard to build .. they are pretty easy to get to a good enough state, which is why I think everyone complains about them, there are a lot of them.
The real DPS toons are very challenging to build correctly & take skill to play for the most part, which is why you do not see as many, so they get complained about much less because there are less of them.
The old out of sight out of mind problem.

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TLDR:
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This whole argument seems like ... 'I think my fun is ruined by this thing I see too many of .. get rid of it so I don't feel bad about myself.'
If that is the real argument, I can get that, but I am not making you play a certain way, that is all you.

[Zoriaan]

And if you really want to see how things stack up,
Next time lama land is up go play with the kobalds ... try to take a couple of each down on several different builds.
For me, not only do warlocks not even compete with the high DPS toons, they are not even in the same ballpark.

Interesting you bring this up and I think it is actually quite valid...

IMO the top 2 Dojo Kobold slayers at the moment are #1 Furyshotters and #2 Monk Wolfie (9druid/6 ranger/5 monk)...as soon as a mob has a lot of HP a normal average lock (98% of all locks you see) will have a VERY hard time keeping up with those...likely be there all day...

[Zoriaan]

Sure... Are we suposed to believe that after seeing how much stuff you cound't back up you pulled out of thin air in this same thread ?

35 pages later and still not a single shuriken completion, fast or not, is very telling if you ask me .

If you think for one second a well played furyshotter cannot complete that you really have no clue...also do you really think the best DDO players hang around on the forums? The best players on Cannith avoid this place like the plague...purely because people like you post here...and if they do post anything remarkable people like you hop right on those posts and start scrutinizing their hotbars and calling them out for either having X-pot or Y-cookie or Z-build or whatever lame ass excuse you can find to make yourself feel better...

You keep hammering on Slarden...where are your completions? Where are your posts that you actually contribute something? All you do is demand demand demand but you wont post anything yourself...if lock is so OP you could roll a new one and cap him in a few hours, buy AH gear and zerg slavers on LE...go on..do it..now I will be like you...we are waiting...

[slarden]

For any of you that think it's unbelievable that a melee fleshy can complete this easy chain.

I wanted to try this build and like to run it on weaker character first anyhow so was planning to do this anyhow. Let's see if the bigger talker on this thread can deliver a completion. Rhetorical question we all the know the answer.

This is my 9th main I played a total of about 5 hours in the last year. He is undergeared without all the past lifes of my mains. Since the biggest complaints about weak builds were monk, kensai and fleshys I combined all 3 and was planning 12 monk 8 fighter but this guy has 0 sorc lives and 0 fvs lifes so I would have needed pots - so I splashed 1 fvs giving up melee power 1 feat and wings so I could complete with 0 pots. On my main 12 monk 8 fighter would have been no problem.

I intentionally took 0 cleaves or aoe so I was under a worst case scenario for this quest where aoe is super good. So every damage I did the entire quest was single target damage with my 53 int and int to hit and int to damage.

Not the fastest time for sure - just under 35 min but this type of build is not best suited for this quest but would excel many other places. I faced almost no risk in end fight and if I had 2 piece lgs with acid and cold resist it would have been even easier. And even the monk poison immunity wasn't working as I took poison damage.

I have no idea how much time I can trim with better gear and some past lifes - but it would be easier and faster for sure on my main 4 characters.





I am not an elitist by any stretch, but I will say this - there are many players in this game that can complete quests with underpowered characters. The people saying this can't be completed by a fleshy melee are not those people and have no idea about the builds more powerful than warlock like thrower builds.

I prefer easy button builds because I play this game 20 hours per week and don't want all 20 hours to be an extreme challenge. I prefer mostly relaxed social play, but I can complete on builds that aren't ideal when I put my mind to it. While not ideal due to no aoe, the build does fine in here and has ALOT of room for improvement. This was first run on prototype build.

However, if you can't complete this quest consider the most obvious things that will make it easy
- Fort 250% + (Narels)
- high resists in acid and cold and absorb if possible (caster)
- ability to restore stat damage or entirely avoid it (I had had to use scrolls lol - not ideal but neither is this build)
- some way to go stretches without taking much damage - dodge + uncanny dodge, meld into darkness twist form shadowdancer etc. This helps alot with making progress if you find you are taking too much damage.

[Zoriaan]

However, if you can't complete this quest consider the most obvious things that will make it easy
- Fort 250% + (Narels)
- high resists in acid and cold and absorb if possible (caster)
- ability to restore stat damage or entirely avoid it (I had had to use scrolls lol - not ideal but neither is this build)
- some way to go stretches without taking much damage - dodge + uncanny dodge, meld into darkness twist form shadowdancer etc. This helps alot with making progress if you find you are taking too much damage.

What blasphemy is this!!! You speak of tactics!?

Nice job. But don't worry this completion will be invalidated for some weird and unknown reason...I know I know...you were in defender stance, monk stance, and you were using blits! That is melee easy button it does not count Also your str, dex, con and int are odd numbers...that must be an exploit and it invalidates this completion!

[Atheok]

What blasphemy is this!!! You speak of tactics!?

Nice job. But don't worry this completion will be invalidated for some weird and unknown reason...I know I know...you were in defender stance, monk stance, and you were using blits! That is melee easy button it does not count Also your str, dex, con and int are odd numbers...that must be an exploit and it invalidates this completion!

More to say... look at the completion time... a warlock can do that in half the time... warlock must be op! This thread must be the biggest troll thread I've seen. A combination of socks with poor arguments aimed nerf warlocks because they lead kill count in heroics and upsets flavour builds. Pathetic.

Someone please correct me and post me a standing record of a warlock (20 pure) of a quest/raid. Speedrun! If it's as OP as you ppl say it is, I'm sure it won't be an issue to find those records. Then we can compare with other builds. GO GO ! New Challenge!

@slarden - Gj on the fleshy melee completion!

[Six_Gun]

A combination of socks with poor arguments aimed nerf warlocks because they lead kill count in heroics and upsets flavour builds. Pathetic.

^ This ^

The 2 or 3 people with their socks spamming the forums with their "Nerf Warlock" threads aren't talking about end game, or even epics. They are crying and whining about Heroic content.

The saddest part of it is that Turbine continues to listen to them.

[mr420247]

Nerf herders

Sock puppets

Forum trolls

U care about balance really then fix the

Cheating exploit builds wait they all favor ur builds

Bring on the Stamina bars if u really want Balance

[Chai]

The same video is still being linked 35 pages in, long after that point was put to bed without dinner. This is the great lengths people will go to talk past the evidence they themselves demanded. At this point, even the melee completions in less time are being dismissed. after being declared not too long ago that it wasn't possible in the first place.

In other news, there was a new moon that was discovered orbiting the Earth fairly recently. Naaa, that's just where the goal posts ended up. Someone should reel those back in.

[Chai]

Nerf herders

Sock puppets

Forum trolls

U care about balance really then fix the

Cheating exploit builds wait they all favor ur builds

Bring on the Stamina bars if u really want Balance

This is a good point actually. Most games that are far more balanced disallow circle kiting as a zero incoming damage result, running backward at the same speed as running forward, and jumping 20 feet in the air in a limitless fashion. -things which are far more powerful than any survivability stat in DDO.

The good balanced games have push and pull mechanics. Run around in circles too long, or sit on a ledge out of harms way while taking the agro, and the mobs pull you to them or push you off with magical abilities. Not only do the players and NPCs have collision, but the spell / projectile mechanics do too.

Most of DDOs forumites demanding balance would not be able to handle these types of changes that the game would need to go through for any type of balance to occur. They couldn't even handle champions without it being an epic verbal battle for months after implementation.

[mr420247]

Nerf herders man

wish Cetus would speak up they might listen to him


They have the most over performing capstone in the history of ddo

Still not enough for them

[mr420247]

Ok nerf herders why do u deserve everything free

casters pay for everything

give me 1 **** reason y ur so special