Warlock NERF Again

[Rys]

Monkchers lol. I thought no one serious played that anymore... If someone considers monkchers cheesy and stuff nowadays they must be playing another game.

Anyway if you ( or anyone) can somehow solo it on a monkcher make a vid and post it here, there are vids of shiradi mages, warlocks, and trees doing it so I doubt it would generate much hate. Or you can just say you can do it but you don't want to post a vid because you fear hate, that's legit, but then don't be surprised if some people don't beileve it, that's it.

Monkchers always generate hate.

[slarden]

Monkchers always generate hate.

this conversation reminds me of a person talking to himself.

[Rys]

Then on a warlock. Now come and tell me there is balance. There isn't.

We should learn from the past
... and ban the word balance on the forums.

[count_spicoli]

Does anyone think vodoos video of him on a warlock standing in the middle of 5 red name bosses Taking little damage while completly annihilating them is good for the game? And NO class in game regardless of cheese is gonna make it look that easy. This is no longer an mmo but suppose it hasn't been for a long time. Warlock is a great class for a 6 year old with slow motor skills and no thought process.

[theboyftw]

don't like warlocks don't play them, or don't party with them. whining is unhealthy! the beauty of this game is you can play whatever class you like and with whomever you like. #threadclosed.

[Rys]

OK, done! I soloed LE p3 slavers on my melee ranger. I killed a lot more than I should have, and it took me a while to figure out fully the mechanics of the last fight. So excuse my looooong time.

Posting the screenshot.



But trust me, I cannot face roll all the bosses at the same time like that warlock.

Woot grats.

But the most important question now. Did you have fun?

[BigErkyKid]

Would it make you feel better if I did the exact same thing on a fleshy kensai? Because I haven't made it yet, since the monk pass is new, but I'm itching to try out a new kensai build...

I'm not 100% certain, but I'm pretty sure this will cut it:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...el-Clad-Maiden

I know what tree builds can do. Now show me how you do it blitzing on a human kensei.

[BigErkyKid]

Woot grats.

But the most important question now. Did you have fun?

Bittersweet. I actually uninstalled after I finished. The game is to run that quest 40-60 times to get a set. The best way is not to play in challenging toons, but rather auto pilot warlock.

I'd like for the game to be challenging like I experienced in that run for all builds, just in different ways. I don't want anyone to have it worse than my preferred style, even monkchers :P

Sadly I know enough about builds and have enough IG experience to know thats not the case at all.

[Tilomere]

I know what tree builds can do. Now show me how you do it blitzing on a human kensei.

Blitz builds are too simple for me to personally build. You and others asked for a fleshy kensai, I delivered a fleshy kensai.

All these requests and then further restrictions demonstrates is that there is a broad range of game knowledge among players. Which is great. Everyone has to start somewhere, and learning new tricks is fun. With more game knowledge one can do more things with more classes than others believe possible or know how to do. No one knows everything, and even people who know very little often know interesting things about the game.

Plus I already posted the fleshy kensai blitz build before in this thread.

[Rys]

Bittersweet. I actually uninstalled after I finished. The game is to run that quest 40-60 times to get a set. The best way is not to play in challenging toons, but rather auto pilot warlock.

I'd like for the game to be challenging like I experienced in that run for all builds, just in different ways. I don't want anyone to have it worse than my preferred style, even monkchers :P

Sadly I know enough about builds and have enough IG experience to know thats not the case at all.

But you don't have to run it XD That's the point. I didn't even buy the pack because I found it really boring on Lama and rather decided to have some fun with Cannith crafting.

[Wizza]

Bittersweet. I actually uninstalled after I finished. The game is to run that quest 40-60 times to get a set. The best way is not to play in challenging toons, but rather auto pilot warlock.

I'd like for the game to be challenging like I experienced in that run for all builds, just in different ways. I don't want anyone to have it worse than my preferred style, even monkchers :P

Sadly I know enough about builds and have enough IG experience to know thats not the case at all.

Then don't run that quest 40-60 times. You are bringing it to yourself, just don't do it.

Play a toon that's fun to you, and don't group with people that ruin your fun. It's not that hard, and what we have been doing for a while.

EDIT: Ninja'ed by a wild Rys

[BigErkyKid]

Blitz builds are too simple for me to personally build. You and others asked for a fleshy kensai, I delivered a fleshy kensai.

Sorry, but I don't think that fleshy kenseis are fine because you can put some levels on it and play it using exploits.

Making a tree build isn't super hard, people have figured out the vast majority of the mechanics.

What is hard is picking something like a 20 fighter and finishing the fight. Can you come up with a non exploit melee build (so no wolf either) that finishes that quest? Something fleshy and with a majority of fighter levels?

Then do it and show us.

[BigErkyKid]

But you don't have to run it XD That's the point. I didn't even buy the pack because I found it really boring on Lama and rather decided to have some fun with Cannith crafting.

Then don't run that quest 40-60 times. You are bringing it to yourself, just don't do it.

Play a toon that's fun to you, and don't group with people that ruin your fun. It's not that hard, and what we have been doing for a while.

EDIT: Ninja'ed by a wild Rys

I don't do it. I ran enough to get a STR/Stun/Heal lore item and called it a day. But I don't want more eTRs and there isn't much else to do that isn't an immense grind. I was maybe thinking of getting a second toee set but god its so grindy.

The point was twofold. First to check Eth's claim that it can be done "easily". It can, if I did it, a lot of players can do it. Second, to show how much harder it is when you are not face rolling it on a warlock. Sadly, I succeeded too in the goal and hence had to take a break from the game.

[Tilomere]

Sorry, but I don't think that fleshy kenseis are fine because you can put some levels on it and play it using exploits.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5888143

I already posted a different fleshy kensai in this thread that would faceroll the game.

What exploits?

I do shapeshifted combat because that is what I know and like.This is a normal (ew) build that would also work, but I'm not interested in making it yet:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5871386

Sometimes not knowing how to do something is just that. Not knowing. Not that something is underpowered.

[BigErkyKid]

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5888143

I already posted a different fleshy kensai in this thread that would faceroll the game.

What exploits?

Really, there is enough game knowledge on these forums to just ask for help if you don't know how to do something on a class.

Cool. I have no use for words though, just do it.

[Chai]

Did I say I wanted all to do the same DPS? Straw man much.

I actually agree with with the basic premise of this example.

Just not the warlock bit. As I have played a lot of them, I know how they perform wrt to other classes. Same player, two different builds, day and night. So yeah you can argue all you want but you won't trump actual gameplay experience.

I ask you to go in slavers LE on a pure kensei fleshy. Then on a warlock. Now come and tell me there is balance. There isn't, and you won't do it because you know I am right.

Actually you did say that is what you wanted. And I quoted it for you in the very post I discussed it in. I will do so again here.

No it DOES NOT make Con less attractive. On the contrary, if the baseline of warlock is less survivable, people will have to invest more in survivability to remain in a standing similar to what the have now. There is plenty of room for that, as the video from the Sarlona guy is showing you. He is CON based, does plenty of damage, doesn't he? Enough to complete content without it being a snore fest.



Build diversity? Holy guacamole. You don't need a silly CON based lock to beat that quest. On a CHA based it can be done just fine. I see a lot less CON based these days. Presicely because DPS is so much better on a lock nowadays that you can kill things fast enough.

As for lock being diversity, I don't agree in the least. Diversity meaning that there are similarly powerful builds across classes. Take a freaking kensei fleshy in there and tell me how you do. Right, you won't. No one will because it is freaking nightmarish.



Bad dev work doesn't mean that it should not be attempted. Every competitive game I know has nerfs and buffs because aside from FarmVille DDO, in most games they understand balance is necessary.

.

That makes no sense.

If that's not what you meant, then please explain how "similarly powerful" happens in a game where every class has access to similar amounts of survivability, recovery, and DPS, because that is what this game is heading toward each time a nerf happens to bring one characteristic of a class in line with the other classes.

What we have seen each time the devs act on this type of feedback, is the end result serves to homogenize the classes, removing build diversity. This is due to being able to be near max at more than one aspect, without having to trade off power from a different aspect.

Thus, demanding nerfing the warlock abilities makes no sense. It makes more sense to make each powerful, but make players only able to choose one, at the expense of the others, if they want to build a character that maxes out one of those abilities. You can apply this concept to any class discussion btw, warlocks is just the current hot topic.

[BigErkyKid]

If that's not what you meant, then please explain how "similarly powerful".

I mean precisely what you said. Things should have a trade off. More DPS? Ok, then less tankiness. More CC? Less DPS. And so on.

You know what I mean, you just wrote about it.

Right now warlocks have too much of everything. Utility / CC / DPS / Tankiness. That guy goes CON based and yet has very decent DPS. He can face roll the 5 bosses together while he chuckles when he talks about difficulty. He didn't do it based on skill, he didn't use any strategy, didn't think of a way to beat the challenge. He just face rolled it.

Then I go in my pure fleshy kensei and I don't even make it to the end fight without being super careful, to be frank that has yet to happen. I try on my barb and fail. It took me using an arguably semi easy button to finish, and I still had a hard time. But I know what I can do on a warlock, I don't even need it to be CON based.

So yeah, nerfing warlock does not necessarily mean burning it. It means giving it a role. If ES is tanky, then DPS should suffer more. And so on.

[Tilomere]

41 points in ES caps out at 19 PRR 29 MRR 20% HP. Which is less tanky than 13 points in StD. Your statements make me think there is something missing in your knowledge or willingness to defensive layer if you think ES is that tanky or are unable to generally survive on a fleshy revamped class (any of them).

When you compare the 19 PRR available in ES to the 329 total PRR in my kensai steel clad maiden build, it is a drop in the bucket. Thinking 19 PRR from ES is significant is tied somehow to the inability to survive LE solo. 19 PRR is not that significant on any build that survives LE solo.

[BigErkyKid]

41 points in ES caps out at 19 PRR 29 MRR 20% HP. Which is less tanky than 13 points in StD. Your statements make me think there is something missing in your knowledge or willingness to defensive layer if you think ES is that tanky or are unable to generally survive on a fleshy revamped class (any of them).

When you compare the 19 PRR available in ES to the 329 total PRR in my kensai steel clad maiden build, it is a drop in the bucket. Thinking 19 PRR from ES is significant is tied somehow to the inability to survive LE solo. 19 PRR is not that significant on any build that survives LE solo.

Every single point in Stalwart is a point gone to survivability that could be spent in a DPS tree.

ES is a DPS tree. The bursts are fantastic to clear trash, so is the aura, and almost every point spent there goes towards more DPS.

Frankly, theory crafting tree builds no longer is showing any systems knowledge since its been done to death.

If you do not understand how ES/TS is a simple easy button that demolishes any quest, then maybe you should spend more time playing and less boasting about your builds.

[Tilomere]

Every single point in Stalwart is a point gone to survivability that could be spent in a DPS tree.

ES is a DPS tree.

Stalwart is a DPS tree as well. It adds strength as well as a 2 target attack mini-dance of death. If that is your viewpoint towards Stalwart and defense, then dying on your kensai makes a lot more sense.