U33 Unarmed Monks - Any Success Stories ?

[Gargoyle69]

With U33 out overnight, there are a lot of changes to unarmed monks but currently the picture isn't all that rosy from what I can see.

Whirlwind is better than the first round on Lamannia, but still below where it was pre-U33.
Wraps now break, and quickly too, and even faster if you fight oozes and apparently this is WAI (this used to be one of the monks strengths, not any more).
Overall DPS seems significantly down on previous (although this is subjective experience, not based on actual math yet).
Wis to atk & dmg isn't happening until the next universal enhancement tree, finishing moves DCs haven't been boosted.
There's lots to be concerned about right now.

In all this, I'm keen to hear of anyone finding success stories with unarmed monk builds. What builds are performing better ?

[Tilomere]

What builds are performing better ?

^^ All of mine are performing better. Unarmed, armed, and thrown/ranged. My unarmed build deals ludicrous damage.

[leesun]

^^ All of mine are performing better. Unarmed, armed, and thrown/ranged. My unarmed build deals ludicrous damage.

did you have any major changes to the victory lap build?

[ZzpxpzZ]

I mean there are a lot of things wrong with this build and things that could have been done better, but just the addition of unarmed crit profile enhancements made at least the DPS go up a ton. Maybe from severely subpar to merely average.

[Gargoyle69]

My unarmed build deals ludicrous damage.

Really ? Wow, ok, is this your victory lap build do you mean or another build ? Do you have any idea yet how much more damage than before ?

To what do you attribute the extra damage ? Have you invested heavily into Henshin for the MP ? The 4 elemental curatives line ? What wraps are you using ? What crits are you seeing ?

Lots of questions, sorry about that, I'm just very interested to know what you're seeing ! :-)

[Tilomere]

Edit: forgot killer doesn't stack with quick strike. Doh I thought I would average 100% double strike. It's only 95. I fail! Rethinking!

[skorpeon]

Shadow double +50% double strike in rotation with quick strike 25% double strike, wind stance 12% double strike all on top of swf/twf shining crescents, in wolf form.

Then add 20% double strike from killer, 30% from past lives and gear...more double strike from PTWF...and end up at a magical ~100% sustainable double strike super speed wolf, 100% offhand 10% double strike offhand, with cheaper ap to buy NiS and HeM goodies, and no mercy and sneak die.

Add in 25% attack speed from fatal harrier and you have the highest dps build in all of ddo.

That sounds crazy, now I just don't believe it. I would love to see a video... (I am not doubting you, just not believing it would be something I would be able to achieve). But now i would be tempted to try.

[Taimasan]

Really ? Wow, ok, is this your victory lap build do you mean or another build ? Do you have any idea yet how much more damage than before ?

To what do you attribute the extra damage ? Have you invested heavily into Henshin for the MP ? The 4 elemental curatives line ? What wraps are you using ? What crits are you seeing ?

Lots of questions, sorry about that, I'm just very interested to know what you're seeing ! :-)

I think you have the wrong guy for the victory lap build I haven't updated it yet.

[CabooseJTS]

In all this, I'm keen to hear of anyone finding success stories with unarmed monk builds. What builds are performing better ?

I'm not the best monk player by far, but the only monk build i have that was actually improved by the pass was my unarmed build. Granted, that could be more because of the fact that she's a tank build, so the fact that Meditation of War became an untyped stacking bonus helped with her PRR issues and gave her another 100HP on top. Her damage is also slightly higher thanks to me LRing her and putting more points into Dex and Wis with the first 2 Ninja Spy cores. All in all, i think i do about 50 more damage on average per hit, crit more often, and have bigger crit numbers; plus the fact that before my Healing Ki healed for 1/3 of my 1.3k health and it now heals for 1/2 my 1.4k health.

Can't say much for my other monks, Shuricannon is pretty much the same as always, Poison Master didn't change at all, Zen Archer will now have an easier time of AP allocation, but that's pretty much it.

[DrawingGuy]

I personally wouldn't count a wolf exploiter as a "monk success story". The changes to handwraps do not affect animal/tree forms as they still work under the old unarmed mechanics (which cleaves still work properly on). And as with every cross class build, buffs to one of their classes buffs them. They didn't level lock stances either.

That aside, all Monk builds, including Unarmed should be stronger:

Thrower builds now have access to the Quick Draw feat through Henshin, a crit profile increase, and scaling Ninja Poison which they excel at. Furthermore Ocean Stance had its dodge and dodge cap significantly boosted making it a better defensive stance making it easier for to stay in for the Ki regen and WIS for 10k stars.


Quarterstaff/Henshin builds got some of the strongest buffs with 75 Melee Power and pretty much every ability in the tree being buffed. The core SLAs I still think under perform and need further buffing, and Thief-Acrobat has some abilities that are more useful, so the cross-class will still be the common method, but we should see more stick builds out there.


Ninja Spy weaponized Monks similarly benefit from Ninja Poison and crit profile increases. Being able to dip into Henshin further boosts their power. The big question is if the Jade line being majorly buffed (especially considering Jade Strike itself is based off crit, so will proc more for weaponized monks) is enough for people to stay pure and invest in just Monk trees, or if they'll keep the trend of most weaponized "Monks" still being a cross class, with the "monk" part typically being a bare splash. But all weaponized Monks, pure or not, have seen improvements by the pass.


Unarmed Monks is the only place where it is a mixed bag. Losing the d8 dice was a pretty heavy hit - how much depending on how many x[W] and Melee Power you had - but this was countered by Melee Power being added to Shintao cores and crit profile improvements. Add in Henshin Melee Power, and you should unvaryingly seen an improvement in single target damage. Unarmed does have a few other things going against it: Lowered attack range, easily breaking weapons, and most important of all... nerfed cleaves. Most notable, Whirlwind Attack, was greatly improved over Lam, but with no Offhand Strike procs, it still at half the damage of pre-U33. So while my single target DPS was improved making killing red names faster, my ability to kill waves of trash has been noticeably lowered... so much so that other players in the party have commented on it. I'm hoping that they will work to add off-hand procs to cleaves for Unarmed, and then I'd feel they are in a good place. Though even without that, Unarmed is certainly still playable and will do fine in any content. The Jade line buff is <3


I do go into detail of what I think Monks need here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...view-Pass-Post (still need to go back and update everything with the Live version of U33)

Though even if they were to ignore all that and only fix Handwrap cleaves to have Offhand procs and fix the remaining Monk DCs, I'll still be satisfied.

[boredman]

You might want to check the divine phoenix, handwraps paladin variation (holy sword seems to work with wraps plus zeal, divine might, etc), knght of the chalice seems to work good with handwarps now, giving 3 aoe attacks (exalted cleave, avenging cleave and holy retribution), light damage on hits that scale with 100% meele power from cores, also divine sacrifice and exalted smite seems to work fine as well:

probably not max dps but very decent with 75% perma doublestrike and with most paladin goodies, decent aoe dmg, very survival with self heals and high saves, both wind stance, sun stance and earth stance options depending on dps, tactics or tanking.

check https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5887395

[Robbenklopper]

With U33 out overnight, there are a lot of changes to unarmed monks but currently the picture isn't all that rosy from what I can see.

Whirlwind is better than the first round on Lamannia, but still below where it was pre-U33.
Wraps now break, and quickly too, and even faster if you fight oozes and apparently this is WAI (this used to be one of the monks strengths, not any more).
Overall DPS seems significantly down on previous (although this is subjective experience, not based on actual math yet).
Wis to atk & dmg isn't happening until the next universal enhancement tree, finishing moves DCs haven't been boosted.
There's lots to be concerned about right now.

In all this, I'm keen to hear of anyone finding success stories with unarmed monk builds. What builds are performing better ?

Pure Monk, unarmed, light, WWA-line, Shintao C6 + T5, Cap 41 AP. Atm at Lvl22.

I just ER´ed a day before the release of U33 and took the same feats and mostly PreEns like i had before U33 to compare and will Play around with it later or at cap.

There were some AP left to take Reed in the wind (what was **** before) that now gives me one more useful attack, what is nice. I haven´t feated-in cleave, but now with Momentum Swing+Lay waste available in LD, i wouldn´t know where to fit in all the attacks, but guess that´s where the ship Needs to sail for the future.

Whirwind seems to work like before, no issues with unarmed. I read about wraps breaking at People, but i can´t confirm this, it´s fine (with high AC, Dodge, ghostly/blurry/shadowveil.)
I´m annoyed by the new Animation/attack on breakables, coz they don´t get broken on "flyby" attacks.

Overall, i got more MP, more DPS, more crits, higher PRR and slightly higher AC. Kinda sick that my Kukan-Do now is by 10 higher than Stunning Fist and already has DC73.

Conclusion: Still uncertain. I had no issues to solo everything on EE (like before) so far, my Monk doesn´t feel "that much stronger" although i see higher numbers and am tougher, maybe quests got finished faster, I just can´t say.

[Milikki]

That sounds crazy, now I just don't believe it. I would love to see a video... (I am not doubting you, just not believing it would be something I would be able to achieve). But now i would be tempted to try.

I'll take as in my doubt on this one. It sounds like it is an exploit Druid build that would already have numbers like that from before the pass. How about a real, non exploit monk build?

[Tilomere]

I'll take as in my doubt on this one. It sounds like it is an exploit Druid build that would already have numbers like that from before the pass. How about a real, non exploit monk build?

One can make a solid build with 75 MP from HeM and 42% double strike from wind stance/NiS Shadow Double using any monk weapon or fighting style. Since they are universal bonuses, you can even swap weapons at will and still do well within any fighting style.

Just start with those two abilities, and go from there...

[Taimasan]

One can make a solid build with 75 MP from HeM and 42% double strike from wind stance/NiS Shadow Double using any monk weapon or fighting style. Since they are universal bonuses, you can even swap weapons at will and still do well within any fighting style.

Just start with those two abilities, and go from there...

Dumbing down of monks part 1.

[Gargoyle69]

I think you have the wrong guy for the victory lap build I haven't updated it yet.

My apologies, you are correct.

[Gargoyle69]

I personally wouldn't count a wolf exploiter as a "monk success story". The changes to handwraps do not affect animal/tree forms as they still work under the old unarmed mechanics (which cleaves still work properly on). And as with every cross class build, buffs to one of their classes buffs them. They didn't level lock stances either.

Exactly, wasn't asking about exploiter builds.

That aside, all Monk builds, including Unarmed should be stronger: Unarmed Monks is the only place where it is a mixed bag.

This, however was precisely the driver for starting the thread.

Losing the d8 dice was a pretty heavy hit - how much depending on how many x[W] and Melee Power you had - but this was countered by Melee Power being added to Shintao cores and crit profile improvements. Add in Henshin Melee Power, and you should unvaryingly seen an improvement in single target damage. Unarmed does have a few other things going against it: Lowered attack range, easily breaking weapons, and most important of all... nerfed cleaves. Most notable, Whirlwind Attack, was greatly improved over Lam, but with no Offhand Strike procs, it still at half the damage of pre-U33. So while my single target DPS was improved making killing red names faster, my ability to kill waves of trash has been noticeably lowered... so much so that other players in the party have commented on it. I'm hoping that they will work to add off-hand procs to cleaves for Unarmed, and then I'd feel they are in a good place. Though even without that, Unarmed is certainly still playable and will do fine in any content. The Jade line buff is <3

Interesting, thanks, that's the sort of thing I was looking for.

So in a nutshell, you're finding single-target dps is up, and AoE dps is down, but if they do fix the cleaves/WWA situation that will obviously help. Is that fair summary ?

Though even if they were to ignore all that and only fix Handwrap cleaves to have Offhand procs and fix the remaining Monk DCs, I'll still be satisfied.

Given that Wis to dmg is off the table for now (but coming later), I would also be satisfied if they did these 2 things.

[Gargoyle69]

Whirwind seems to work like before, no issues with unarmed.

I don't understand this. That is not my understanding still on live and from what I'm seeing. Can you elaborate please ?

so far, my Monk doesn´t feel "that much stronger" although i see higher numbers and am tougher, maybe quests got finished faster, I just can´t say.

This matches my own experience which is why I thought this thread might be useful to see what others are seeing.

Please let us know how you go as you play more, keen to hear back from you.

[CaptainPurge]

Pure Monk, unarmed, light, WWA-line, Shintao C6 + T5, Cap 41 AP. Atm at Lvl22.

I just ER´ed a day before the release of U33 and took the same feats and mostly PreEns like i had before U33 to compare and will Play around with it later or at cap.

There were some AP left to take Reed in the wind (what was **** before) that now gives me one more useful attack, what is nice. I haven´t feated-in cleave, but now with Momentum Swing+Lay waste available in LD, i wouldn´t know where to fit in all the attacks, but guess that´s where the ship Needs to sail for the future.

Whirwind seems to work like before, no issues with unarmed. I read about wraps breaking at People, but i can´t confirm this, it´s fine (with high AC, Dodge, ghostly/blurry/shadowveil.)
I´m annoyed by the new Animation/attack on breakables, coz they don´t get broken on "flyby" attacks.

Overall, i got more MP, more DPS, more crits, higher PRR and slightly higher AC. Kinda sick that my Kukan-Do now is by 10 higher than Stunning Fist and already has DC73.

Conclusion: Still uncertain. I had no issues to solo everything on EE (like before) so far, my Monk doesn´t feel "that much stronger" although i see higher numbers and am tougher, maybe quests got finished faster, I just can´t say.

Do you not find the reduced hitbox annoying? That's the worst part I'm finding. You have to pretty much run INTO a mob to hit him with wraps. However I am in Heroics and you are in Epics so maybe you don't notice it as much since you already have a full build to work with.

[Saekee]

One can make a solid build with 75 MP from HeM and 42% double strike from wind stance/NiS Shadow Double using any monk weapon or fighting style. Since they are universal bonuses, you can even swap weapons at will and still do well within any fighting style.

Just start with those two abilities, and go from there...

That doublestrike seems like such a constant given the short cooldown that I imagine a SWF armed monk would take better advantage of it due to SWF attack speed.

OR one can PSWF with Void Strike, 3 sec cooldown, 10% chance no-save instakill on non-bosses.