Since our damage is massively debuffed

[Mr_Helmet]

Are the champion buffs that give massive slashing, blunt, or piercing DRs still needed?

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Are the champion buffs that give massive slashing, blunt, or piercing DRs still needed?

Those absorbs are hilarious. Constant weapon swapping that really messes with some builds. Isn't a fun thing IMO.

What does a monk do?
Or a Kensai?

The other problem is that it isn't obvious like mob Elemental immunities.

Transparency of champion buffs is still an issue with this stuff.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Yeah we don't need Reaper mode to be too hard....

[Mr_Helmet]

Yeah we don't need Reaper mode to be too hard....

. . . nor can we expect everyone's comments to be informed and add anything of value to the discussion.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Yeah we don't need Reaper mode to be too hard....

This is a Strawman. We're talking QOL.

[Thrudh]

This is a Strawman. We're talking QOL.

Yeah, swapping weapons is too much work... </sarcasm>

You've been around long enough to remember when we all carried a golf bag full of different weapons for different monsters. That's a GOOD thing.

As for Kensai and monks, that's their weakness. That's what makes them DIFFERENT. Which is also a good thing.

In a barb vs fighter thread a while back (where everyone was saying Fighters are way better), someone pointed out that one of the advantages a barb gets is the ability to switch to a different weapon type and still get all their bonuses.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Yeah, swapping weapons is too much work... </sarcasm>

You've been around long enough to remember when we all carried a golf bag full of different weapons for different monsters. That's a GOOD thing.

As for Kensai and monks, that's their weakness. That's what makes them DIFFERENT. Which is also a good thing.

In a barb vs fighter thread a while back (where everyone was saying Fighters are way better), someone pointed out that one of the advantages a barb gets is the ability to switch to a different weapon type and still get all their bonuses.

lol

ya you don't get why it would be a nice change. That's fine.

Adrenaline works with Crossbows in DDO. I'm not gonna fight this too hard.

Have you logged in to play this stuff?
Do you play with an examination window up on every mob you fight?
Does the UI support that?

[Qezuzu]

That's a GOOD thing.

why tho.

No, really.

Different weapons were used for good reasons. You had a weapon that was good against specific mob types, that could break DR, that could apply specific effects, etc. I knew my holy+undead bane weapons were good against undead because that's what they said on the tin. I knew I needed silver weapons to combat devils because that's what you needed in PnP (and it said so in silver's effect description.) Same with Good+Silver for the stronger devils.

Ye Olde golf bag was fine because it was intuitive and made sense. This is "ordinary rat takes almost no damage from slashing AND piercing attacks, because reasons." There's no rhyme or reason, you don't swap weapons for any thematically sensible effect, you swap weapons simply because **** you.

And while being able to swap to different damage types more easily can be worked in as a positive for a build, the system still does harshly punish some builds... off the top of my head would be stick builds, which have zero options to break this DR until they get Rahl's Might at lvl18. They don't even have options for the THF style period if they don't have class levels that give them proficiencies in other weapons. For ranged builds, I think blunted ammunition is also ML16, and I don't think xbow builds have any way to get slashing damage. TWF monks have no means by which to do piercing damage (except from one seasonal event.) So it's not just about, oh no, a Kensai can't use their preferred weapon, there are builds that cannot even use their combat style because of this.

I'm personally fine with keeping the crazy damage resistances in; ultimately this is a mode where you'll often need to rely on your teammates, anyway. But it's really, really not a positive. It's not a "GOOD" thing. The game would not suffer at all if it was removed, and would greatly benefit if it was tweaked: they can start by barring zombies from getting slash absorb, and skeletons from getting blunt absorb.

[levy1964]

Yeah we don't need Reaper mode to be too hard....

ofc mate...dose any1 have suggestion what to do to reaper be more easy ?

start from skull 10 mayby, becouse this is hardness difficult...

my suggestion class C build can do solo reaper 1-3 B build 1-6 i A build 1-9 lol....

buahahaha some1 have 20 Weapons to swapping...winner!

why u not use from as long as i remember....minII gs+ cold iron type weapon for ADQ
we never be forced to have 20type of weapon in DDO, so i don't think so this is it's happend now
and some of u debating about DR becouse is unfun swapping 20 type of weapon! ?

[Blastyswa]

Those absorbs are hilarious. Constant weapon swapping that really messes with some builds. Isn't a fun thing IMO.

Agreed. I was never a fan of the whole keeping 20 weapons on your hotbar thing we used to have in DDO, and a return of that isn't an improvement in my book. In my AD&D background the DM had us all show how we carried everything without being allowed to just say "I have 3 axes on my back and a longbow and halberd in my backpack", so carrying 1-2 larger multipurpose weapons and a dagger or two on your person was all we could do.

What does a monk do?

Well, to be fair, an unarmed monk can take the vorpal strikes feat to make their damage both slashing and bludgeoning, and equip EE Ivy Wraps for piercing damage without damage becoming completely pitiful, so you only need to carry one swap in. A Kensei does have more issues. As a specific fix, it could be interesting to add in a multi-selector in the empty slot in the Kensei tree at tier 2 that either adds piercing, slashing, or bludgeoning damage type to your kensei focus weapons. Of course, just removing/reducing the absorption would negate the issue better (My solution would be to drop it from basically immunity to a set absorption percentage, possibly something like absorption=30%+5% per reaper level).

[Torkzed]

If we are removing DR for various melee weapons, it would make sense to also remove elemental immunities, yes?

This has been an annoyance to me for a long time before reaper. While melee can often mitigate the effects of DR by a quick weapon swap, a sorc likely needs to swap weapons (common slot for spell power/lore items) AND switch to an alternate spell mix. Usually this means lowering DPS, since enchancements and other build choices are often optimized about the primary element.

And heaven help the sorc who finds that the mob is immune to his primary element AND resistant to his secondary element (Hezrous are a good example in non-reaper content). Switching to your tertiary element is a prelude to heavy drinking (in multiple ways)!

And, yes, I know that this is kind of a moot point since spell DPS is virtually worthless in Reaper anyway. But that is a different issue.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Everyone is going to be playing monkchers with morphic arrows, pin/ottos.

[nokowi]

Agreed. I was never a fan of the whole keeping 20 weapons on your hotbar thing we used to have in DDO, and a return of that isn't an improvement in my book.

I enjoyed the era where getting more than one weapon was important. It gave me more to do, and it helped separate those who understand the game from those who don't. The current era where you don't need to understand anything is not an improvement. I would prefer mob DR to be consistent with the mob type rather than random.

In D&D, there are feats that let your unarmed combat switch between slashing, bludgeoning, and piercing. I would suggest this as an option for unarmed combat (1 feat per additional damage type).

The rest of us will have to learn which mobs we are the most effective against, and use teamwork.

If DR becomes large enough, players might need to find new builds outside of the x10 crit damage with only one weapon type. I don't see how this is a bad thing, as it provides more things for players to do.

The only drawback I see is that using non DR weapons causes your weapons to break quickly. Exiting a dungeon with many broken weapons is not particularly fun.

Maybe increased weapon durability would be a good reaper reward that doesn't cause power creep?

[Jetrule]

It looks like a fairly reasonable effort to encourage diverse grouping. It would encourage it even more if some things were practically immune to all types of physical damage say a 600 a.c. and 600 prr and others to all types of magical damage, say 500 mrr 500 spell resistance healed by force and alignment damage and 100,000 points of damage reduction versus untyped damage. And some others had missile weapon invulnerability wonder woman bracers of deflecting every shot some back at the shooter ect.. It promotes targeting the right enemy by the right player. Got to find some way of defeating a all kiter cheese group style.

[slarden]

For me the most important thing for reaper is that it is exactly as Turbine makes it without watering down difficulty for people that feel a certain class is at a disadvantage. The beauty of reaper is that Turbine doesn't need to worry about balance since gear is not tied to it. It must be frustrating for Turbine when people ask for more challenge and then complain the challenge is too hard. I like Cordovan's description - the DM is trying to kill you.

I already know some of my builds will be sub-optimal for reaper - who cares - it's for an extreme challenge. I will either respec or not run those on reaper.

I do like the suggestion of a visual of immunities which I view more as a quality of life vs. a request to make reaper easier. I am guessing it won't happen. I have never been a big of using the examine feature while fighting, but maybe I'll get used it to now that it's needed more.

[Ellihor]

If they do that then should also remove the elemental resists, deathblock and fom buffs. That will not happen. Deal with it, that's by desing, to require teamwork.

See 0 damage? Just let your party mates get that one. Or swap to suboptimal weapon, 70% dps is still dps. You are still better off than casters who can't do their most important things like energy burst, SLAs, or DC spell when faced with the respective ward.

And it's a must to add light, force and aligned absorption. I don't know why currently the champions in live don't have it. They should add that for non-reaper too.

The champion wards should have a stylized symbol over their heads instead of the champions crown. Like a permanent deathward icon above their heads for the champs with deathblock, and a blue shield for one kind of damage absorption, another color for another.. etc.

[Eth]

The champion wards should have a stylized symbol over their heads instead of the champions crown. Like a permanent deathward icon above their heads for the champs with deathblock, and a blue shield for one kind of damage absorption, another color for another.. etc.

That would look weird. Mobs have more than just one of these buffs (having 5 or more different buffs at the same time seems pretty common on higher skulls).

[Ellihor]

That would look weird. Mobs have more than just one of these buffs (having 5 or more different buffs at the same time seems pretty common on higher skulls).

Yes they do, but should do that for deathblock at least, because this one makes you waste sp. The absorption is not that big of a deal, you sure waste the attack but it's less of a problem.

Edit: for comparison, it would be like if you were doing say, slashing or eletric damage on the champion, it has the absorption buff to that, but you do full damage as if it hadn't, but on the last hit it gets back the HP that should be absorpted, and from there on you get the reduced damage on the log. Terrible, it's not challenge, it just sucks.