Since our damage is massively debuffed

[Mr_Helmet]

Are the champion buffs that give massive slashing, blunt, or piercing DRs still needed?

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Are the champion buffs that give massive slashing, blunt, or piercing DRs still needed?

Those absorbs are hilarious. Constant weapon swapping that really messes with some builds. Isn't a fun thing IMO.

What does a monk do?
Or a Kensai?

The other problem is that it isn't obvious like mob Elemental immunities.

Transparency of champion buffs is still an issue with this stuff.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Yeah we don't need Reaper mode to be too hard....

[Mr_Helmet]

Yeah we don't need Reaper mode to be too hard....

. . . nor can we expect everyone's comments to be informed and add anything of value to the discussion.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Yeah we don't need Reaper mode to be too hard....

This is a Strawman. We're talking QOL.

[Thrudh]

This is a Strawman. We're talking QOL.

Yeah, swapping weapons is too much work... </sarcasm>

You've been around long enough to remember when we all carried a golf bag full of different weapons for different monsters. That's a GOOD thing.

As for Kensai and monks, that's their weakness. That's what makes them DIFFERENT. Which is also a good thing.

In a barb vs fighter thread a while back (where everyone was saying Fighters are way better), someone pointed out that one of the advantages a barb gets is the ability to switch to a different weapon type and still get all their bonuses.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Yeah, swapping weapons is too much work... </sarcasm>

You've been around long enough to remember when we all carried a golf bag full of different weapons for different monsters. That's a GOOD thing.

As for Kensai and monks, that's their weakness. That's what makes them DIFFERENT. Which is also a good thing.

In a barb vs fighter thread a while back (where everyone was saying Fighters are way better), someone pointed out that one of the advantages a barb gets is the ability to switch to a different weapon type and still get all their bonuses.

lol

ya you don't get why it would be a nice change. That's fine.

Adrenaline works with Crossbows in DDO. I'm not gonna fight this too hard.

Have you logged in to play this stuff?
Do you play with an examination window up on every mob you fight?
Does the UI support that?

[Qezuzu]

That's a GOOD thing.

why tho.

No, really.

Different weapons were used for good reasons. You had a weapon that was good against specific mob types, that could break DR, that could apply specific effects, etc. I knew my holy+undead bane weapons were good against undead because that's what they said on the tin. I knew I needed silver weapons to combat devils because that's what you needed in PnP (and it said so in silver's effect description.) Same with Good+Silver for the stronger devils.

Ye Olde golf bag was fine because it was intuitive and made sense. This is "ordinary rat takes almost no damage from slashing AND piercing attacks, because reasons." There's no rhyme or reason, you don't swap weapons for any thematically sensible effect, you swap weapons simply because **** you.

And while being able to swap to different damage types more easily can be worked in as a positive for a build, the system still does harshly punish some builds... off the top of my head would be stick builds, which have zero options to break this DR until they get Rahl's Might at lvl18. They don't even have options for the THF style period if they don't have class levels that give them proficiencies in other weapons. For ranged builds, I think blunted ammunition is also ML16, and I don't think xbow builds have any way to get slashing damage. TWF monks have no means by which to do piercing damage (except from one seasonal event.) So it's not just about, oh no, a Kensai can't use their preferred weapon, there are builds that cannot even use their combat style because of this.

I'm personally fine with keeping the crazy damage resistances in; ultimately this is a mode where you'll often need to rely on your teammates, anyway. But it's really, really not a positive. It's not a "GOOD" thing. The game would not suffer at all if it was removed, and would greatly benefit if it was tweaked: they can start by barring zombies from getting slash absorb, and skeletons from getting blunt absorb.

[Wizza]

If I caster is expected to adapt and become a mass hold-bot, I can expect a melee/ranged to have more than one weapon. And if they really can't have more than one weapon, they can attack another mob in the pack.

Regarding examining the window: it sucks, I agree, but it sucks equally for everyone because noone does that. Not the ranged guy, nor the caster, nor the melee.

I don't see why we should have double standards here. You see yellow number on a mob, you go hit another one.

[Mr_Helmet]

Have you logged in to play this stuff?

I'll bet you a year's subscription he hasn't played any of this

[Mr_Helmet]

why tho.

No, really.

Different weapons were used for good reasons. You had a weapon that was good against specific mob types, that could break DR, that could apply specific effects, etc. I knew my holy+undead bane weapons were good against undead because that's what they said on the tin. I knew I needed silver weapons to combat devils because that's what you needed in PnP (and it said so in silver's effect description.) Same with Good+Silver for the stronger devils.

Ye Olde golf bag was fine because it was intuitive and made sense. This is "ordinary rat takes almost no damage from slashing AND piercing attacks, because reasons." There's no rhyme or reason, you don't swap weapons for any thematically sensible effect, you swap weapons simply because **** you.

And while being able to swap to different damage types more easily can be worked in as a positive for a build, the system still does harshly punish some builds... off the top of my head would be stick builds, which have zero options to break this DR until they get Rahl's Might at lvl18. They don't even have options for the THF style period if they don't have class levels that give them proficiencies in other weapons. For ranged builds, I think blunted ammunition is also ML16, and I don't think xbow builds have any way to get slashing damage. TWF monks have no means by which to do piercing damage (except from one seasonal event.) So it's not just about, oh no, a Kensai can't use their preferred weapon, there are builds that cannot even use their combat style because of this.

I'm personally fine with keeping the crazy damage resistances in; ultimately this is a mode where you'll often need to rely on your teammates, anyway. But it's really, really not a positive. It's not a "GOOD" thing. The game would not suffer at all if it was removed, and would greatly benefit if it was tweaked: they can start by barring zombies from getting slash absorb, and skeletons from getting blunt absorb.

This, all of this.

[Mr_Helmet]

If I caster is expected to adapt and become a mass hold-bot, I can expect a melee/ranged to have more than one weapon. And if they really can't have more than one weapon, they can attack another mob in the pack.

Oh be quiet and know your role, just hold things since Sev thinks this is what casters want

I don't see why we should have double standards here. You see yellow number on a mob, you go hit another one.

It's not Yellow-numbers, it's 0s for everything except crits. This was what I was seeing on a 10k DPS toon (non Reaper of course) with a 10-stack of blitz.

[Wizza]

Oh be quiet and know your role, just hold things since Sev thinks this is what casters want

Exalted Angel sorc ftw!

It's not Yellow-numbers, it's 0s for everything except crits. This was what I was seeing on a 10k DPS toon (non Reaper of course) with a 10-stack of blitz.

Isn't the 0 yellow? :P

Jokes aside, if you do 0 damage (I haven't watched the videos completely), then I take it back and yes I agree. Noone likes doing 0 damage, but I still stand by the point that the reduction should be meaningful enough that you either switch weapon or move to another mob. The result is the same, just achieved without a blanket immunity.

[Seljuck]

lol

Do you play with an examination window up on every mob you fight?
Does the UI support that?

why tho.

Ye Olde golf bag was fine because it was intuitive and made sense. This is "ordinary rat takes almost no damage from slashing AND piercing attacks, because reasons." There's no rhyme or reason, you don't swap weapons for any thematically sensible effect, you swap weapons simply because **** you.

There is quite easy solution for that. When a player hits opponent with immunity or damage reduction, a text should appear that describe immunity/reduction type.

Text in same line where our dealt damage appear.

[Hobgoblin]

still would like some sort of visual champs - other then just the crown

maybe size increase since thta is in the game?
and put the mob in chain if they are weak to pierce, plate if they are weak to blunt, and maybe cloth if weak to slash?

and change color for various elements?

just a thought

[Mr_Helmet]

still would like some sort of visual champs - other then just the crown

maybe size increase since thta is in the game?
and put the mob in chain if they are weak to pierce, plate if they are weak to blunt, and maybe cloth if weak to slash?

and change color for various elements?

just a thought

Or we can just remove this unneeded and overly punitive effect. Simpler isn't it?

[Hobgoblin]

Or we can just remove this unneeded and overly punitive effect. Simpler isn't it?

well ya but thats not gonna happen.

of course mine wont either

we can always hope right?

[Blastyswa]

Those absorbs are hilarious. Constant weapon swapping that really messes with some builds. Isn't a fun thing IMO.

Agreed. I was never a fan of the whole keeping 20 weapons on your hotbar thing we used to have in DDO, and a return of that isn't an improvement in my book. In my AD&D background the DM had us all show how we carried everything without being allowed to just say "I have 3 axes on my back and a longbow and halberd in my backpack", so carrying 1-2 larger multipurpose weapons and a dagger or two on your person was all we could do.

What does a monk do?

Well, to be fair, an unarmed monk can take the vorpal strikes feat to make their damage both slashing and bludgeoning, and equip EE Ivy Wraps for piercing damage without damage becoming completely pitiful, so you only need to carry one swap in. A Kensei does have more issues. As a specific fix, it could be interesting to add in a multi-selector in the empty slot in the Kensei tree at tier 2 that either adds piercing, slashing, or bludgeoning damage type to your kensei focus weapons. Of course, just removing/reducing the absorption would negate the issue better (My solution would be to drop it from basically immunity to a set absorption percentage, possibly something like absorption=30%+5% per reaper level).

[Torkzed]

If we are removing DR for various melee weapons, it would make sense to also remove elemental immunities, yes?

This has been an annoyance to me for a long time before reaper. While melee can often mitigate the effects of DR by a quick weapon swap, a sorc likely needs to swap weapons (common slot for spell power/lore items) AND switch to an alternate spell mix. Usually this means lowering DPS, since enchancements and other build choices are often optimized about the primary element.

And heaven help the sorc who finds that the mob is immune to his primary element AND resistant to his secondary element (Hezrous are a good example in non-reaper content). Switching to your tertiary element is a prelude to heavy drinking (in multiple ways)!

And, yes, I know that this is kind of a moot point since spell DPS is virtually worthless in Reaper anyway. But that is a different issue.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Everyone is going to be playing monkchers with morphic arrows, pin/ottos.