Reaper Reward Suggestions

[2pc2]

There should be no special reward at all for 10 skulls. The reward should be that the quests/dificulty are so hard and well designed that the mere fact of getting a completion on such dificulty is the reward itself, the joy of having archieved something so hard earned and dificult to do while having had a good time doing it.

If you put meaningful rewards, even if it's a mere +1 spell power, ppl will run it just for the rewards even if they don't enjoy such challenges. I would and no special reward at all to avoid that. Loot runs and grind should be a thing of lower dif settings which are also more time-efficient, lets leave 10 skulls just for the fun and the challenge.

[nokowi]

Let's look at XP/min and whether it can work as a design goal.

CONCLUSION: 7 skull players will need to get XP 7.72x as fast as an elite player for ALL players to gain the same XP/min at their max difficulty.

--> Nobody is going to accept this design with such massive XP differences for more powerful players.
--> XP/min can not be a reasonable design goal for reaper.





I'm going to make a few assumptions, which you can alter as you wish, and it won't change the conclusion.

Let's assume that we have players of varying power, some who can run 1 skull (at best) and some who can run up to 7 skulls (at best).

Let's also assume it takes a player 60% longer than elite to run reaper at the setting where they are really challenged.

Let's assume settings below your max difficulty become progressively easier (If 3 skull takes you 60% longer, 2 skull takes you only 30% longer. If 2 skull takes you 30 % longer, 1 skull takes 15% longer. repeat)

	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8
Player A	1%	2%	4%	8%	15%	30%	60%	---
Player B	2%	4%	8%	15%	30%	60%	---	---
Player C	4%	8%	15%	30%	60%	---	---	---
Player D	8%	15%	30%	60%	---	---	---	---
Player E	15%	30%	60%	---	---	---	---	---
Player F	30%	60%	---	---	---	---	---	---
Player G	60%	---	---	---	---	---	---	---
Needed XP Bonus	60%	108%	170%	252%	357%	494%	672%	etc

The needed XP Bonus is the total XP boost players need at each skull setting to make running at max difficulty give the same XP/min, and for this to work for all players.

Player G needs 60% more XP to get the same XP/min as playing on elite.
Player F needs 30% more XP to go from 1 skull to 2 skull.

(1.6)*(1.3)=208% which is a 108% XP increase

For both players to be rewarded in equivalent XP/min when challenged, Player G needs 1.6 times as much XP at one skull (to get the same XP/min as playing elite), and Player F needs 2.08x as much XP at 2 skulls. Anything less than this and player F can farm 1 skull for faster XP than 2 skull, or player G can farm elite for faster XP/min than reaper.

[JOTMON]

Off the top of my head I see three paths to succeeding in high skull Reaper mode:

~ Have a specialized tank hold agro while others eliminate Reapers and DPS down creatures. If a Reaper gets on the tank for any period of time they will probably die.

~ Have people devoted to CC and keep mobs locked down. Not trivial in the turmoil of a dungeon but a solid choice.

~ Go with a kiting options, eliminating Reapers before they pursue characters and slow them, and taking down creatures while kiting and physically dodging.

I am sure players will find other paths as well.

One of the strengths of DDO is that skill and knowledge at creating and gearing builds can create powerful characters. As a result, lack of skill and knowledge can create weak builds. This is part of the play experience for this game; we aren't trying to hide or mitigate that. Our goal isn't all builds are equal, but rather there is a rich design space for players to experiment with and play all sorts of builds.

As a result, we have created a wide range of difficulties. Philosophically we like that players can participate with all sorts of builds in DDO because they can pick a difficulty that suits them. Reaper mode, however, is intended to be a playground to really test not only the ability to create builds, but to demonstrate skill in playing those builds. In order for that to occur, players need to be allowed to fail.

Sev~

From my player perspective this is a fail.

~a 'specialized' tank that cant tank for a prolonged period of time with minimal cures is of no value.
a healer spamming heals on a tank that can die in 2-3 hits from 1 mob is just dumping mana and wasting resources. now you have 2 or more players not doing solid DPS prolonging a fight that cant be sustained.
...bringing us back to Pure brute DPS (preferably ranged) and stacks of Rez scrolls still wins the day over a diversified party working as a team to overcome obsticles.

~hindering devoted CC by increasing their cooldowns and reducing their durations does not encourage focussed CC.
...it does further promote kiting builds further taking away from teamwork.

~Its a win for Kiters. and a loss for every one else and a fail for teamwork.


Other paths .. pft.. more like encouraging exploit mechanics and manipulating the game weaknesses ..not encouraging classes in all their diversity..
Too much focus on Player skill and Gear trumping class abilities.


~~


I like the Reaper limitations on self healing, the reduction in damage, the amping of heals from others..

I see failure in.. The amped damage from mobs(one shot party deaths) and the near uselessness of support toons. the continued encouragement of ranged DPs due to keep-a-way survivability.(again..avoiding one shot deaths)

Game is lacking boss debuffs. useful diversified party buffs, benefit to teamwork over mass brute DPS.

[Qezuzu]

<snip>


Telling us why it wont work doesn't contribute anything. Say what will work.

Also, if it works in 30% of content, well that is better than nothing.

(0.30)*243 is 70 quests players run on reaper. Compare this with 1 quest where we have challenge now. The reaper player pool is probably not big enough to support 243 quests anyway, so pairing this down to 70 reaper quests may even be a good thing.

I think 30% of reaper quests being more enticing because of named item drops is completely unrealistic.

I don't even think half of quests even have named items in the first place.

And a large majority of named items were released prior to cannith crafting lootgen, and are just not good anymore. Especially since we are talking about heroic levels, you don't need a very high crafting level to craft a heroic item that blows a majoirty of the named items away.

I think 10%, at the very most, of quests would be lucrative to run on reaper with higher named items drops... and this only holds true so long as you have not yet obtained those items, and if those items are too rare on elite.

It's simply not a good reward.

My conclusion is that designing for XP/min will create a curve where players run below the difficulty that actually challenges them.

Let's look at XP/min and whether it can work as a design goal.

CONCLUSION: 7 skull players will need to get XP 7.72x as fast as an elite player for ALL players to gain the same XP/min at their max difficulty.

--> Nobody is going to accept this design with such massive XP differences for more powerful players.
--> XP/min can not be a reasonable design goal for reaper.

I'm going to make a few assumptions, which you can alter as you wish, and it won't change the conclusion.

Let's assume that we have players of varying power, some who can run 1 skull (at best) and some who can run up to 7 skulls (at best).

Let's also assume it takes a player 60% longer than elite to run reaper at the setting where they are really challenged.

Let's assume settings below your max difficulty become progressively easier (If 3 skull takes you 60% longer, 2 skull takes you only 30% longer. If 2 skull takes you 30 % longer, 1 skull takes 15% longer. repeat)

table snip

The needed XP Bonus is the total XP boost players need at each skull setting to make running at max difficulty give the same XP/min, and for this to work for all players.

Player G needs 60% more XP to get the same XP/min as playing on elite.
Player F needs 30% more XP to go from 1 skull to 2 skull.

(1.6)*(1.3)=208% which is a 108% XP increase

For both players to be rewarded in equivalent XP/min when challenged, Player G needs 1.6 times as much XP at one skull (to get the same XP/min as playing elite), and Player F needs 2.08x as much XP at 2 skulls. Anything less than this and player F can farm 1 skull for faster XP than 2 skull, or player G can farm elite for faster XP/min than reaper.

There's a couple fundamental things I think you're missing:

Reaper is not going to be soloed. Perhaps a couple of cheesy builds can do it at as high as 3-skull but the intent is that grouping is required. Soloing reaper at high skull levels is not something that people are going to be able to do, and soloing it at low skull levels is something I only imagine 1% of 1% of people are going to be able to do, depending on the quest.

So we're not talking about players: we are talking about parties.

If I take Player G into my party of players consisting with skill/gear levels of A through C, and they are a competent player who can listen, we can do a much higher skull level than 1, which is somehow posited as player G's limit.

Likewise, if I am an A player, and I enter a group of F/G players, we won't be able to complete my max skull level, but we can probably do better than 1 or 2 skull.

Or if we take six G players, and they end up with a balanced party and, while not well geared or highly skilled, they can still coordinate well, they could complete as high as 3-skull while still remaining time efficient, perhaps.

But most importantly: who is pre-crunching the numbers on what skull level would be the most time efficient for a given group and any one of 273 quests in the game? Who exactly would have this capability? How does a player know if they are a D or an E player? How does one know how their skill level would impact the group's efficiency, if it even does at all? How can someone be sure that going one skull up would actually increase their completion time by 23% (your math is wrong)? Would this hold true for all quests in the game? Does this even apply at higher skull levels? Does an A or B player really slow down that much just by increasing the skull level by 1? Would a F or G player remain an F or G player for long as they gain familiarity with reaper?

I just think you've simplifed the problem to a ridiculous degree. And at any rate, I feel there would be enough people to run reaper if it was both fun and challenging, and was not an obviously harsh impact to their XP rate (not that I believe terribly many people actually monitor it that closely in the first place.) I don't think there should be doubt that reaper should give more XP (it already has 120% as first-time XP and it has something unknown called "reaper XP," so...)

[bls904c2]

Reaper mode needs to be here for increased difficulty.

if you are on TR training using xp pots and other ways to maximize xp, looking for the best xp/min route to get back to epics, reaper is not for you.

if you are looking for better gear then what is available in game, reaper mode is not for you


Reaper mode needs to be there for higher challenge

we have a large percentage of player base playing normal in epics because they don't want a challange they only care about xp/min

we have new gear almost every update for those you want more power

we have new things to grind for, added often enough for those who needs a trophy to show they played a quest till their eyes bleed. ( torc d' what eva, GS, LGS, slavers, thunderforged, all time favorite jibbers blade)

we need to give those who need a challenge something as close as we can give them.

I wish a game can supply a true challenge through puzzles but tactics but it is impossible.
once the solution is known its easy. (shadow crypt (3 instances), the riddle in litany, puzzle in enter kolbold, and numerous quests and raids) people usually know the solutions to challenges before it even gets to live thanks to lama land. The best puzzles are in shroud and people use solvers till they have done enough to figure out on there own.

i like the idea of reaper and i will play with friends because we like the idea of a quest being open to actual failure.

i will also play Hard and Elite with others like i do now, i carry a set of level 15 gear on my level 30 to play with a couple of guildies to gimp my toon to play with them. and i still out perform them. it's no fun for them if they don't get a chance to play.

reaper mode should not be for everyone,

it should be prone to quest failure
it should be challenging
it should require top builds
it should require to equipment
it should require tactics
it should require working as a team not necessarily balanced


it should not offer greater xp
it should not offer greater gear
it should not offer power creep

but it should offer a reward but nothing above what we already have
possible rewards is like the raid runes to be turned in for things simular to things already in game or things in game.

item just like the everlasting pots for rems
pots just like those in evening star commendation turn ins
cosmetics hat, armor, weapon
pets
new hair dies
augments (diamond, ruby, sapphire)
means to turn in for other ingredients like cannith essences, or collectibles

basically things that we already have a turn in for

[Qezuzu]

From my player perspective this is a fail.

~a 'specialized' tank that cant tank for a prolonged period of time with minimal cures is of no value.
a healer spamming heals on a tank that can die in 2-3 hits from 1 mob is just dumping mana and wasting resources. now you have 2 or more players not doing solid DPS prolonging a fight that cant be sustained.
...bringing us back to Pure brute DPS (preferably ranged) and stacks of Rez scrolls still wins the day over a diversified party working as a team to overcome obsticles.

~hindering devoted CC by increasing their cooldowns and reducing their durations does not encourage focussed CC.
...it does further promote kiting builds further taking away from teamwork.

The first point doesn't work if there is a death timer, which they said they'd explore.

The second point: CC cooldowns are not being increased.

[nokowi]

I think 30% of reaper quests being more enticing because of named item drops is completely unrealistic.

I don't even think half of quests even have named items in the first place.

And a large majority of named items were released prior to cannith crafting lootgen, and are just not good anymore. Especially since we are talking about heroic levels, you don't need a very high crafting level to craft a heroic item that blows a majoirty of the named items away.

I think 10%, at the very most, of quests would be lucrative to run on reaper with higher named items drops... and this only holds true so long as you have not yet obtained those items, and if those items are too rare on elite.

It's simply not a good reward.

Having reaper players concentrated in 10% of quests still provides 24 quests that would be actively played. Its more than 24x better than what we have now because I can choose a skull difficulty that is fun for me (unlike LE shroud where it's take it or leave it).

Having a concentrated # of players in less quests means it's much easier to find a group for those quests.

There's a couple fundamental things I think you're missing:

Reaper is not going to be soloed. Perhaps a couple of cheesy builds can do it at as high as 3-skull but the intent is that grouping is required. Soloing reaper at high skull levels is not something that people are going to be able to do, and soloing it at low skull levels is something I only imagine 1% of 1% of people are going to be able to do, depending on the quest.

So we're not talking about players: we are talking about parties.

If I take Player G into my party of players consisting with skill/gear levels of A through C, and they are a competent player who can listen, we can do a much higher skull level than 1, which is somehow posited as player G's limit.

Likewise, if I am an A player, and I enter a group of F/G players, we won't be able to complete my max skull level, but we can probably do better than 1 or 2 skull.

Or if we take six G players, and they end up with a balanced party and, while not well geared or highly skilled, they can still coordinate well, they could complete as high as 3-skull while still remaining time efficient, perhaps.

But most importantly: who is pre-crunching the numbers on what skull level would be the most time efficient for a given group and any one of 273 quests in the game? Who exactly would have this capability? How does a player know if they are a D or an E player? How does one know how their skill level would impact the group's efficiency, if it even does at all? How can someone be sure that going one skull up would actually increase their completion time by 23% (your math is wrong)? Would this hold true for all quests in the game? Does this even apply at higher skull levels? Does an A or B player really slow down that much just by increasing the skull level by 1? Would a F or G player remain an F or G player for long as they gain familiarity with reaper?

I just think you've simplifed the problem to a ridiculous degree. And at any rate, I feel there would be enough people to run reaper if it was both fun and challenging, and was not an obviously harsh impact to their XP rate (not that I believe terribly many people actually monitor it that closely in the first place.) I don't think there should be doubt that reaper should give more XP (it already has 120% as first-time XP and it has something unknown called "reaper XP," so...)

Replace the word player with team and the results still apply.

If you change 60% to 40% (or any other resoonable value), the XP needed is still many times fore for high skull players to be motivated by XP/min. We know damage reduction is 10% per skull, so that sets the minimum difficulty increase at 10% per skull. I used 30% (at your max difficulty, where dying and healing take up extra time). At 10%, 6 skull players still need to get 2-3x the XP/min of elite players for XP/min to be OF SIMILAR VALUE. Nowhere did I say players have to or would crunch XP/min, just what the XP values would need to be to be of a similar XP/min on high difficulty. (so that reaper players don't simply devolve into playing non challenging content for max xp/min - this is what we already have on elite right now).

Just like arguing 10% vs 30% made no difference, arguing the number is 23% makes no difference. Pick a number you think is accurate, and I'll show you the math. If you won't do this, then you need to be honest that you are just saying (no number is perfect --> therefore all numbers are meaningless), and I can let you know that you have a failure of logic.

[lyrecono]

From my player perspective this is a fail.

~a 'specialized' tank that cant tank for a prolonged period of time with minimal cures is of no value.
a healer spamming heals on a tank that can die in 2-3 hits from 1 mob is just dumping mana and wasting resources. now you have 2 or more players not doing solid DPS prolonging a fight that cant be sustained.
...bringing us back to Pure brute DPS (preferably ranged) and stacks of Rez scrolls still wins the day over a diversified party working as a team to overcome obsticles.

~hindering devoted CC by increasing their cooldowns and reducing their durations does not encourage focussed CC.
...it does further promote kiting builds further taking away from teamwork.

~Its a win for Kiters. and a loss for every one else and a fail for teamwork.


Other paths .. pft.. more like encouraging exploit mechanics and manipulating the game weaknesses ..not encouraging classes in all their diversity..
Too much focus on Player skill and Gear trumping class abilities.


~~


I like the Reaper limitations on self healing, the reduction in damage, the amping of heals from others..

I see failure in.. The amped damage from mobs(one shot party deaths) and the near uselessness of support toons. the continued encouragement of ranged DPs due to keep-a-way survivability.(again..avoiding one shot deaths)

Game is lacking boss debuffs. useful diversified party buffs, benefit to teamwork over mass brute DPS.

exactly this:

~a 'specialized' tank that cant tank for a prolonged period of time with minimal cures is of no value.
a healer spamming heals on a tank that can die in 2-3 hits from 1 mob is just dumping mana and wasting resources. now you have 2 or more players not doing solid DPS prolonging a fight that cant be sustained.
...bringing us back to Pure brute DPS (preferably ranged) and stacks of Rez scrolls still wins the day over a diversified party working as a team to overcome obstacles.

You hit the nail on the head there

Back to the ddo dark ages it is

[Qezuzu]

Having reaper players concentrated in 10% of quests still provides 24 quests that would be actively played. Its more than 24x better than what we have now because I can choose a skull difficulty that is fun for me (unlike LE shroud where it's take it or leave it).

I think you missed two points, and that's that this still only holds true if you don't have the named items, and if you actually think it's worth it to go to the trouble when most named items are common enough on elite. This is especially true of post u29 items, which are pretty much the only thing that's competitive at all with cannith crafted items.

So yeah, 24 quests: unless you already have the items, or if you're not interested in those items, or if you just don't see the value in grinding for an additional +1 melee power or +1 PRR.

Having a concentrated # of players in less quests means it's much easier to find a group for those quests.

LOL. So it's better that less quests have a good reason to be ran on reaper?

If you change 60% to 40% (or any other resoonable value), the XP needed is still many times fore for high skull players to be motivated by XP/min. We know damage reduction is 10% per skull, so that sets the minimum difficulty increase at 10% per skull. I used 30% (at your max difficulty, where dying and healing take up extra time). At 10%, 6 skull players still need to get 2-3x the XP/min of elite players for XP/min to be OF SIMILAR VALUE. Nowhere did I say players have to or would crunch XP/min, just what the XP values would need to be to be of a similar XP/min on high difficulty. (so that reaper players don't simply devolve into playing non challenging content for max xp/min - this is what we already have on elite right now).

I don't think damage and difficulty are linearly related, nor is the time to complete as quest, seeing as quests have varying amounts of running from one fight to the next.

I think the crux of your argument still relies on people closely monitoring XP/min, which is just something that most people don't do.

If the system is something simple like 10% more XP per skull level, and it turns out that 4-skull has the best time/XP ratio, well you know what: oh well. At least it will be more fun than elite, and conceivably it will still require grouping and teamwork. It's better than your current suggestion where 90% of quests will have zero reason to be ran on reaper.

I will personally run reaper quests, even if I know it's slightly less efficient XP, because it would come with the additional challenge, coordination and fun. Without any additional XP I think the number of people willing to do this would lessen, and it would be difficult to fill LFM's for it. Like if reaper is something like (on average, over all skulls) 2x the time and 1.9x the XP, I think there would be enough interest. I seriously doubt this would be the case if it were 2x the time, 1x the XP.

Just like arguing 10% vs 30% made no difference, arguing the number is 23% makes no difference. Pick a number you think is accurate, and I'll show you the math. If you won't do this, then you need to be honest that you are just saying (no number is perfect --> therefore all numbers are meaningless), and I can let you know that you have a failure of logic.

I didn't pick 23% because I thought it was a better number, I picked 23% because the percentage difference between 1.3 and 1.6 is 23%. Your math was just incorrect, is all.

[Severlin]

IIRC Reaper mode currently has a slightly increased XP modifier over elite that does not increase with Skull level. We aren't aiming at XP per minute being a compelling reason to run Reaper mode.

Sev~

[nokowi]

[QUOTE=Qezuzu;5886682]
I think you missed two points, and that's that this still only holds true if you don't have the named items, and if you actually think it's worth it to go to the trouble when most named items are common enough on elite. This is especially true of post u29 items, which are pretty much the only thing that's competitive at all with cannith crafted items.

So yeah, 24 quests: unless you already have the items, or if you're not interested in those items, or if you just don't see the value in grinding for an additional +1 melee power or +1 PRR.
[QOUTE]

It's better than the alternative you offer, which is nothing.



[QUOTE=Qezuzu;5886682]
LOL. So it's better that less quests have a good reason to be ran on reaper?
[QOUTE]

It similar to having new content that is run in higher proportion. It's good to have other players in the quests where you want grouping. One of the biggest dangers of this new reaper system is dividing players amongst 30 levels and 10 difficulty settings. It's a simple concept that players looking for groups like to find a group.

I don't think damage and difficulty are linearly related, nor is the time to complete as quest, seeing as quests have varying amounts of running from one fight to the next.

I did not do anything linear. I suggest reading again. Making 30% per year in the stock market is not linear.

I think the crux of your argument still relies on people closely monitoring XP/min, which is just something that most people don't do.

Your the one focused on XP/min as a motivator, not me. I don't think you will need to closely monitor anything if it takes 2x as long to level up at 6 skulls.

If the system is something simple like 10% more XP per skull level, and it turns out that 4-skull has the best time/XP ratio, well you know what: oh well. At least it will be more fun than elite, and conceivably it will still require grouping and teamwork. It's better than your current suggestion where 90% of quests will have zero reason to be ran on reaper.

I suggested increased XP as a first time bonus. Maybe you need to go do some reading.

You are the one saying XP can be the only motivator, even if its not enough for XP/min and that anyone who suggests any other motivator is stupid, because it's not something you care about.

I will personally run reaper quests, even if I know it's slightly less efficient XP, because it would come with the additional challenge, coordination and fun. Without any additional XP I think the number of people willing to do this would lessen, and it would be difficult to fill LFM's for it. Like if reaper is something like (on average, over all skulls) 2x the time and 1.9x the XP, I think there would be enough interest. I seriously doubt this would be the case if it were 2x the time, 1x the XP.

It's going to be more than slightly less efficient. I fully expect players to count XP/min (something you said nobody would do) and complain on the forums.

I didn't pick 23% because I thought it was a better number, I picked 23% because the percentage difference between 1.3 and 1.6 is 23%. Your math was just incorrect, is all.

My math is correct. The percentage XP bonus is based on elite XP, as is all of the discussion.

I would suggest reading again if you failed to comprehend. Look at the Bonus XP needed if you need help with seeing where 30% increase per skull comes from.

[nokowi]

IIRC Reaper mode currently has a slightly increased XP modifier over elite that does not increase with Skull level. We aren't aiming at XP per minute being a compelling reason to run Reaper mode.

Sev~

Thanks.

I will refrain from any more XP/min discussions.

[Ultramaetche1]

With the title of the thread in mind, that being Reaper rewards, and from what I've seen of people's concerns about itemized power creep. What about introducing item enhancements that scale with the skull of difficulty being played. Make the enhancements as additional slots specifically for reaper gear.

For a rough example something such as the following:
Reaper's Strength: Gain a +2 reaper bonus to strength per skull level you are currently playing on. (ie. if you're NOT playing on reaper the bonus is +0, and if for example you're playing on 4 skull you would gain +8 STR)

This way, the item power creep would be kept out of NON-reaper quests making sure not to further trivialize current content, but then there would be some amount of progression through reaper content.

And, if so desired, you could tier the reaper gear effects to only scale up to a certain skull value. Also, make it so only gear UP TO the skull value being ran drops (ie. No superior gear from 1 skull runs)
Reaper's Minor Strength: power scales according to above example except it is capped at 2 Skulls (+4 bonus)
Reaper's Lesser Strength: ...capped at 4 skulls (+8)
Reaper's Strength: ... capped at 6 ...
Reaper's Greater Strength: ... capped at 8 ...
Reaper's Superior Strength: uncapped

Of course I only used Strength as an example to attempt to get my idea across. Feel free to elaborate and express your concerns with this idea.

[-D_Rock-]

Everyone crying about this really needs to sit back and realize something. It's the same old tired cry/moan posts i've seen for years that people let their minds wander to. It REALLY IS all in your head and you allow it to be. What is it? Simply the fact that you don't HAVE TO PLAY reaper mode. There's a thought??!! I've told people this who cry that multi life TR people should be nerfed because they 'personally' cant do all that and they should have everything handed to them on a silver platter. Yeah well stuff it because those people earned their right to be over powered and devoted a lot of time and money to the game from their real life that you should be thankful for because it's helped keep this great game going in the first place. If you cant handle elite or epic elite, then well there are MANY options given to you so that you can be casual if you want or get more challenge too. Yes there really ARE difficulty settings!

The same can be said about this new difficulty. This is being done to give an extreme challenge to people who want it and are bored. Simple as that. Yes im a vet. Do i plan to play reaper mode? yes. do i plan to play it all the time? well heck no that's just a huge amount of my time i don't want to devote to. i plan to level like normal because i like to tr and mix things up instead of sitting at cap for forever doing the same thing all the time. And then at the same time its nice to have the 'option' to play an extreme challenge to test my one toon whom i think 'is totally awesome' just for the giggles of it. It's just that. An OPTION. Not an obligation. Quit freaking crying already and remember, YOU make the choices.

[nokowi]

With the title of the thread in mind, that being Reaper rewards, and from what I've seen of people's concerns about itemized power creep. What about introducing item enhancements that scale with the skull of difficulty being played. Make the enhancements as additional slots specifically for reaper gear.

For a rough example something such as the following:
Reaper's Strength: Gain a +2 reaper bonus to strength per skull level you are currently playing on. (ie. if you're NOT playing on reaper the bonus is +0, and if for example you're playing on 4 skull you would gain +8 STR)

This way, the item power creep would be kept out of NON-reaper quests making sure not to further trivialize current content, but then there would be some amount of progression through reaper content.

And, if so desired, you could tier the reaper gear effects to only scale up to a certain skull value. Also, make it so only gear UP TO the skull value being ran drops (ie. No superior gear from 1 skull runs)
Reaper's Minor Strength: power scales according to above example except it is capped at 2 Skulls (+4 bonus)
Reaper's Lesser Strength: ...capped at 4 skulls (+8)
Reaper's Strength: ... capped at 6 ...
Reaper's Greater Strength: ... capped at 8 ...
Reaper's Superior Strength: uncapped

Of course I only used Strength as an example to attempt to get my idea across. Feel free to elaborate and express your concerns with this idea.

I appreciate your thoughts. This falls into the --> getting more power to run higher skull rating which then ends up not increasing challenge.

This is exactly the kind of implementation that negates difficulty instead of allowing players to play on higher difficulty.

It's a bad idea for players in reaper who are seeking challenge.

[nokowi]

i plan to level like normal because i like to tr and mix things up instead of sitting at cap for forever doing the same thing all the time. And then at the same time its nice to have the 'option' to play an extreme challenge to test my one toon whom i think 'is totally awesome' just for the giggles of it. It's just that. An OPTION. Not an obligation. Quit freaking crying already and remember, YOU make the choices.

One-Skull will be the new XP zerg, given the static XP bonus for reaper, and 2 skulls or more for players who actually want challenge.

[Hawkwier]

IIRC Reaper mode currently has a slightly increased XP modifier over elite that does not increase with Skull level. We aren't aiming at XP per minute being a compelling reason to run Reaper mode.

Sev~

That's good to know Sev.

Reaper should be it's own reward.

The challenge is what was asked for, by some, and that is what should be given. Nothing more.

It's sad to see some now want to use it as a vehicle for their own petty ends in terms of additional benefits, which was never what it was supposed to be about. If they feel they need these to play it, then reaper probably isn't for them anyway. They can always continue to play elite and enjoy the game.

Please resist the risk of disenfranchisement of the wider player base by proxy. Delivering the added challenge is enough. If the folks who asked for it don't want that, more fool them for pretending to themselves it was otherwise IMO.

I'm looking forward to more grouping with real challenge and more soulstones. Should be fun!

[Khurse]

The only thing it should reward (in addition to perhaps the minimal XP increase) is cosmetics.

Cool looking cosmetics (like the new Night Revels armor), some kind of fun cosmetics (like the Pirate Hats)

Not like 80% of the cosmetic options in the shop.

You run reaper, you get something that lets everyone know you can run reaper.

You don't get a power increase that's going to have the effect of necessitating that new post reaper content be made more difficult to account for the gear you got in reaper.

[nokowi]

It's sad to see some now want to use it as a vehicle for their own petty ends in terms of additional benefits, which was never what it was supposed to be about.

I was hoping for a steady group of players in reaper.

Not understanding what motivates players is why we haven't had challenge for a long time.

It's sad to see players make their personal preferences more important than having reaper succeed.


Having doctors "only because they care about people" seems like a great idea, until there are no doctors available when you need one.

[Janisis]

I'd like rewards to be only cosmetics.

We've had enough power creep through gear.

I would love to see more cosmetics - even better new cosmetic slots. Wish we could have the option to have cosmetic back slot - capes and cloaks would be fun. Reaper mode to get access to new cosmetic slots would be amazing.