U33 complete release notes (Deity Feats, Monk changes, nerf to Shining Through etc)

[Wizza]

Also, traditionally by the time something hits Lamannia, it is too late to make significant changes. This has always been the case.

This is why the rule of "post Lamannia changes in the Lamannia forum" is stupid and should be changed. This thread hit 12 pages in four days. On Lamannia, we can't even have 3-4 pages of feedback.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

This is why the rule of "post Lamannia changes in the Lamannia forum" is stupid and should be changed. This thread hit 12 pages in four days. On Lamannia, we can't even have 3-4 pages of feedback.

But it doesn't work with handwraps.

[Qezuzu]

We took a very serious look at the stances. At one point in this pass, we had a version with drastically increased stances, but restricting the upgraded Forms (Master, Grandmaster, etc) to require Monk levels instead of Character levels. Given how drastically this would have hurt multiclassed Monks, we decided instead to keep the forms about where they were and move that power into other parts of the class.

From the sound of your post, the stances each have a purpose that is useful - even if every stance isn't necessarily useful to every Monk. That's what we're aiming for right now.

Fire stance for ranged monks, Earth stance for melee monks. The other two have no purpose or only extremely niche purposes on bad builds (like FvS aiming for max DC's.)

+2 DC's on Monk abilities is not enough for how low they are to begin with. Water stance should give a larger bonus to DC's, and it should have some max dodge increase, because +12% dodge is completely redundant when a pure monk can't get over 39% to begin with (42% with Halfling/Gnome.)

Air stance's doublestrike doesn't stack with Pendant of the Warrior's Focus. This is a huge oversight because that is a common item on melee builds.

And the +30 (+40 w/ Shintao) PRR from Earth stance is still way too large of a bonus for melee monks to not use. The other three stances might as well not exist. You NEED those defenses as a melee build, and none of the other stance provide ANY defensive benefits.

[dunklezhan]

Huh. Just noticed no buff at all to quivering palm. A high level ability that in my experience is near useless within 2 levels ever since they nerfed it. How vexing.

On the subject of stances: my still parked at L28 since before the cap increase wind stance wis/dex-based TWF pure monk is really feeling quite left out.

On handwraps: I have some decent low level and epic handwraps thank goodness, but I tended to just use my low level wraps up to 20 (stonedusts excluded) because the enhancement bonus was the only part of the wraps that really mattered in terms of what the ML was before, and +2 or 3 was plenty in most cases. Not saying that's a good thing or a bad thing. But its definitely a thing I'm going to have to deal with.

Does this mean we'll see handwrap recipes added to certain noticeably lacking crafting systems? *coughgreensteelcough*.

Summary: I don't think the monk changes are bad per se. But I do think they are going to be pretty disruptive to me personally.

[Ballyspringer]

BS.

And the +30 (+40 w/ Shintao) PRR from Earth stance is still way too large of a bonus for melee monks to not use. The other three stances might as well not exist. You NEED those defenses as a melee build, and none of the other stance provide ANY defensive benefits.

I'll second this part, right now if you don't have at least 100 PRR and 30% dodge and another large way to mitigate dmg (like displace or improved dodge) you just can't be a melee anymore in legendary content. You can have well over 1k hp and get 1 shot by trash mobs without it. And even with 100 PRR I still think you're squishy - 150 is the bar for not squishy

[FranOhmsford]

Air stance's doublestrike doesn't stack with Pendant of the Warrior's Focus. This is a huge oversight because that is a common item on melee builds.

I get really fed up of the common misconception that only End-Game counts - I've never even heard of the Pendant you mention but I don't use Wind Stance after about lvl 10-12 because if I do my Monk is DEAD!

I don't use Fire or Water FULL STOP!


I'd love to have the choice to go back to Wind Stance - The stance my Pure Monk actually started in when I created him and was meant to stay in! But that's just not possible with how the game has gone!

And the +30 (+40 w/ Shintao) PRR from Earth stance is still way too large of a bonus for melee monks to not use. The other three stances might as well not exist. You NEED those defenses as a melee build, and none of the other stance provide ANY defensive benefits.

Yup!
The PRR from Earth Stance is quite simply REQUIRED!


Here's a possible 4 Stances though:

Earth
Offensive Bonus - + Melee Power, + Acid/Physical Spellpower
Defensive Bonus - + AC and Fort Saves
Special Bonus - Stoneskin SLA based on Monk Level.

Fire
Offensive Bonus - + Melee/Ranged Power, + Fire/Light Spellpower
Defensive Bonus - + AC and MRR Cap
Special Bonus - Firewall SLA based on Monk Level.

Air
Offensive Bonus - + Doublestrike, + Electric/Sonic Spellpower
Defensive Bonus - + Dodge and Reflex Saves
Special Bonus - Displacement SLA based on Monk Level.

Water
Offensive Bonus - + Cold Spellpower and Fortification Bypass.
Defensive Bonus - + Dodge and Will Saves
Special Bonus - Permanent FoM

The Spellpower Bonuses should at least equal what is lost by a Caster splashing Monk levels.


PRR removed from Stances entirely and given to ALL Monks regardless!

[Qezuzu]

I get really fed up of the common misconception that only End-Game counts - I've never even heard of the Pendant you mention but I don't use Wind Stance after about lvl 10-12 because if I do my Monk is DEAD!

1. The pendant comes from the u29 Shroud flagging quests. It has a heroic version that can be equipped at level 15. At that point, it nearly halves the benefit from Greater Wind Stance. The Legendary version at level 29 almost entirely reduces the benefit from Ultimate stance.

2. I never said only end-game counts. The point is a class bonus does not stack with an item, which I can't imagine is intended.

[IBCrabin]

Are you guys really think 3 different EPLs and 3 iconic PLs plays some role here? I said ALMOST 0 and it is so. 4 3 1 1 is capable to make with just 3 EPL (not much work, but also sense weakness is not so great thing lol).
Anyway. Can someone make another build with same PL number and newbie gear, show me same result and then say "It was easy"?

Maybe you should combine the whole reply instead of dissecting the post. I agreed with you that shining through is not going to make warlock kill less. But the example you used to support your argument is rather a poor choice.

3x Morning lord, 2x other
6x ePL
3+ heroic PL. no idea since he didn't show how many of sorc/wiz/fvs he had.

1400+ hp with 2 piece LGS set(?) in shiradi with a complete TF weapon. that is a good amount of hp and fairly well geared to maximize spell caster dps. brilliance seems to be what helping him more than anything to reduce the amount of self healing along with displacement, and 130 prr.

I have a 2nd life warlock with 1 ePL, charisma spec, no aura build that works fine in LE. 0 charisma tome, 2 con tome, 4 int tome. 993 hp in shiradi.

Gear set
golden orb of death, epic noxious ember, LGS vacuum stick, mysterious bracer, breastplate of sage, phansophic circlet, L empowered dragon scale, L earthern mantle, L brazenband ring, E thoughtful remembrance, L dashing glove, LGS goggle, L devil commander, +15 charisma ring. Mostly quest gear.

This was a mule I TR to test warlock enhancement for other people. I can easily push this toon over 1200 hp if I spend the time to optimize the gear a bit more

I will say again, I do understand and agreed with you about shining through isn't going to make a lock kill any slower.

[Krelar]

The point is a class bonus does not stack with an item, which I can't imagine is intended.

Divine Might says hi. (I think there are a couple other examples but I can't think of them atm.)

[Dungeoner49]

Holy moly there is a LOT pages on this thread already! While it looks like I will appreciate most of the changes that are coming to monk, I would like to point out that if the shintao enhancement clickys such as jade strike don't count as light moves to finishers for light monks then I'm not going to be happy. Speaking of the shintao clickys, I think they still reserve their best effects for"tainted" creatures, but have the definition of "tainted" changed to be anything evil, undead, extra planar or an aberration. Creatures that are in two or more category requirements would receive 2x the effects and require a second save to avoid encasement or banishment if they are subjected to them. Also, I think that the stance feat requirements should stay roughly the same as they are in live, but pure monks get slightly improved stances. I would also like to see earth stance improved a bit to make it's durability stand out as I almost never find another earth stance monk, say 10% AC, 5 PRR per stance rank at least. I'd also like to see Mystic Training changed to provide its increase in DC to other monk based moves like stunning fist or shining star, and not just finishers, unless there are other plans to improve monk move DC's.

[Innokentiy]

Maybe you should combine the whole reply instead of dissecting the post. I agreed with you that shining through is not going to make warlock kill less. But the example you used to support your argument is rather a poor choice.

3x Morning lord, 2x other
6x ePL
3+ heroic PL. no idea since he didn't show how many of sorc/wiz/fvs he had.

1400+ hp with 2 piece LGS set(?) in shiradi with a complete TF weapon. that is a good amount of hp and fairly well geared to maximize spell caster dps. brilliance seems to be what helping him more than anything to reduce the amount of self healing along with displacement, and 130 prr.

I have a 2nd life warlock with 1 ePL, charisma spec, no aura build that works fine in LE. 0 charisma tome, 2 con tome, 4 int tome. 993 hp in shiradi.

Gear set
golden orb of death, epic noxious ember, LGS vacuum stick, mysterious bracer, breastplate of sage, phansophic circlet, L empowered dragon scale, L earthern mantle, L brazenband ring, E thoughtful remembrance, L dashing glove, LGS goggle, L devil commander, +15 charisma ring. Mostly quest gear.

This was a mule I TR to test warlock enhancement for other people. I can easily push this toon over 1200 hp if I spend the time to optimize the gear a bit more

Well just to be fully clear. There are no any hit points PL. 1 PL with PRR (whole 3 PRR, OMG!!!!), 0 with MRR. No HP and SP LGS sets, only 2-tier LGS goggles and weapon. Heroic GS with SP. Cha +8 item. Build constitution spec. No vacuum LGS, no pansophic or any post-u29 item. 2-tier LGS weapon that can make any newb. 15 con randomgen item. PL of wiz, sorc and fvs? They doesnt have sense for warlock at all. 1 EPL with magic crit, 3 PL of morninglord and 1 EPL with skills. These are bomb!
So with all these newbish things I already have 130+prr and mrr, 1500 hp and heavy aoe dps.
And with that all I dont need any manual dexterity playing warlock. Just to use 3-5 buttons in 1 sequence and jump around pack of mobs.
Thats what Im talking about.

[pjw]

Wisdom to Damage is being set aside for a future Universal Enhancement Tree.

Ugh. So Clr/FvS remain horrible after the FvS pass? I really hope I don't have to pay for this new expansion tree to make my paid-for FvS fun again?

[SpardaX]

As someone who always wanted to play a Henshin, and changed my main monk to Henshin when it came out, I was always slightly disappointed at how it was. I was hoping this monk pass would target Henshin's the most, since if you ask pretty much anyone, they're all going to say the same thing. The Henshin is the worst of the 3. Let me be clear. I'm really happy for the Ninja Spy tree changes. They seem good. I'm...hopeful, for the Shintao changes. They seem ok, could be better, but not bad.

But I'm even more disappointed now with the Henshin. I feel like it needed the most work out of the 3 (being the worst tree) and personally, I feel like it got the least. I'm one of the players who actually used the spellpower in the tree, so at best, I have mixed feelings about the spellpower being changed to melee power (And I liked the idea someone posted about having it be a selector "Core 1: Melee Power / Spell Power for rest of cores Multiselector" But yes, I know that would be extra hard to do.) (it'll buff my melee and hurt the SLAs the tree gives. What? I feel like if that's how we're going, maybe we should switch the SLAs to be based off melee power too?) It won't help his current form (A Henshin Monk + Fire Sorc) But I know that build was never gunna be the best there was, and so I knew what I was getting in to when I made him. (as Fire becomes useless past level 18ish for much content). One of the ideas I did like, was having a Multiselector for elements, so at AP 1 in Henshin, choosing Fire/Water/Electric/Acid and having all (2 lol) of your SLA's be of that element. But if Henshin has to be Fire, then I guess that's that.

But still. +1 [W] here and there, + Melee Power and Melee Power scaling here and there, and that's it? Ki bolt got improved, yay, and it got damaged from the loss of spell power so....a wash there I guess... And we made the Doublestrike attack be as good as the Rogue one...That's more of a fix than a change, so....yay I guess?

TL;DR, what I would like to see mainly, is:
1: More SLA's. We have the Ki Gen. Sounding Staff, The 2nd Tier +1 Ki Gen, and the Capstone +1 Ki Gen. We have it. We need more SLA's to spend it on pretty please.
2: A choice for different elements. I know the PnP Henshin comes from Fire. I know it would break that mold. But Fire is just so bad in this game for much of it. It's a sad fact of life, and I wish it wasn't, but here we are.

Edit: Ignore This bit now I guess.

3: Spell Power / Melee Power selector, OR failing that, make the SLA's work of Melee Power. I know we can cast them a lot more than spells (because as I said, we have the Ki Gen), but they are really very weak (Yes, I know Ki Bolt got effectively damage doubled) but yea, in the CURRENT system, 1 whack from my staff > Ki Bolt damage. (And it's a staff. It can hit multiple mobs at once.) Changing the Spellpower to Melee power is just going to make that divide even bigger. I barely use Ki Bolt now (because of what I just said), I don't want less reason to use it.

/Can stop ignoring now

3Edit: It appears in the most recent Lam, that the SLAs do now run off Melee Power. So good work there. It does mean that, since my Henshin Fire Sorc has vastly more fire spell power than even the updated Henshin can get melee power, even including the fact that ki bolt got double damage, my SLAs are still weaker than they were before. So I guess my Fire Sorc Henshin is officially dead in the water. But I guess thats my bad for hoping the build might work to begin with lol. Ah well.

3a: While I'm on the topic of Ki Bolt, And yes, I have bug reported this, Just thought I would mention it here, Ki Bolt is not being treated as a Fire spell. My Monk Fire Sorc (with Fire Spell Caster level boosts from Fire tree) Boosts the Caster level of Incinerating Wave, but does not boost the Caster Level of Ki Bolt. I don't know which one is broken (Is Ki Bolt Supposed to get boosted? Is Incinerating Wave NOT supposed to get boosted? I don't know.) But yea, one of them is broken. My hope is on Ki Bolt. So that'd be nice.

I dunno, if I'm wrong, by all means people, correct me. But yea, I just feel like the Henshin needed the biggest overhaul, and got the smallest.

Also, while I have your attention (If you made it this far) I agree with the people offering interesting changes / improvements to the stances (I generally try to use all of them except Fire, I might actually start using Fire on at least one of my characters now that it has the Crit Damage, only time will tell), but even if you don't decide to change them, I would like you to do something about Air stance. The other 3 have great stacking stuff, and Air has doublestrike. I don't care if you have to half the bonuses, or what, but i feel like the attack speed should stack with haste. As someone else said previously, Monks are supposed to be the quick attackers. Flurry of Blows Blinding Speed! That same person said that they should have the Haste Action Boost in one of their trees, instead of having to Multiclass to Fighter or Rogue to get what their class should be king at already. But perhaps rather than add it as an enhancement, make the Air Stance attack speed bonus, an action boost bonus? At the least, it has to stack. Everything else from every other stance stacks. Try and find a way to make Air Stance stack please.

Also one final point that almost no one is going to read lol. Meditation of War can't be active at the same time as Paladin / Fighter Defender stances. I don't know if that's on purpose or by accident, but my Monk Paladin would appreciate it if that could be changed Meditation of War is supposed to buff stances, not be a stance. If not, oh well I guess lol. Just my personal request. ^.^

I'm sorry for the exceedingly long post, and thanks for making the game

[SirValentine]

Fire stance for ranged monks, Earth stance for melee monks. The other two have no purpose or only extremely niche purposes on bad builds (like FvS aiming for max DC's.)

And if they (eventually) make Clr/FvS/Drd capstones in line with other post-enhancement-pass capstones, maybe we can lay to rest once and for all the dumb "you have to splash a melee class to max your casting" thing.

I have no problem with viability of splashing Monk for some added defenses and/or melee, and minimizing the impact via Water stance, but it shouldn't have better casting DCs than sticking to your caster class.

[SirValentine]

Are you guys really think 3 different EPLs and 3 iconic PLs plays some role here? I said ALMOST 0...

I thought you said 0 EPLs. Not "almost". Don't think they're disputing how much of a difference it makes so much as your honesty about it.

[Coyopa]

Here's a possible 4 Stances though:

Earth
Offensive Bonus - + Melee Power, + Acid/Physical Spellpower
Defensive Bonus - + AC and Fort Saves
Special Bonus - Stoneskin SLA based on Monk Level.

Fire
Offensive Bonus - + Melee/Ranged Power, + Fire/Light Spellpower
Defensive Bonus - + AC and MRR Cap
Special Bonus - Firewall SLA based on Monk Level.

Air
Offensive Bonus - + Doublestrike, + Electric/Sonic Spellpower
Defensive Bonus - + Dodge and Reflex Saves
Special Bonus - Displacement SLA based on Monk Level.

Water
Offensive Bonus - + Cold Spellpower and Fortification Bypass.
Defensive Bonus - + Dodge and Will Saves
Special Bonus - Permanent FoM

The Spellpower Bonuses should at least equal what is lost by a Caster splashing Monk levels.
PRR removed from Stances entirely and given to ALL Monks regardless!

Wow! I am shocked. A suggestion by Fran that I actually like! This seems reasonably well thought-out to me. Maybe it could use some tweaking (but I have no suggestions or ideas). It doesn't surprise me that the developers didn't think of anything like this; their imaginations appear to be simply that bereft of creativity and ... well ... imagination.

[Coyopa]

But I'm even more disappointed now with the Henshin

I agree. My level 25 monk is still primarily Henshin, even though he doesn't use a staff. I always enjoyed using the Cauldron of Flame ability and some of the other SLAs. I think the tree would have benefited from more SLAs (you know, the "mystic" part of Henshin Mystic) and that they should have scaled by either melee power or spell power, depending on which you selected in the first core. That all being said, I knew the developers would let us down with the redesign of this tree because doing a good redesign requires creativity.

[wraxzz]

oh no! /facepalm
and these changes are coming just after i discarded hundred of draconic runes

[Mryal]

Changes to Shintao are looking great.Ninja Spy too, however consider that Ninja Poison is also often used by ranged builds and having it scale on melee power only will cause issues with choosing epic destinies.
Henshin on the other hand is a complete disapointment, its no longer Mystical at all, its just a staff basher, melee weapon bashing builds are plenty alredy.Have those ki "sla" be usefull and keep the spell power interaction, improve it.
Removing the threat range from Earth stance to sun stance without giving anything else to earth stance is meh.Honestly the whole idea of stances is meh atm and outdated, when i think of stances i think of something i could change whenever i wanted, wich you can, but theres no compeling reasons to.

I get really fed up of the common misconception that only End-Game counts - I've never even heard of the Pendant you mention but I don't use Wind Stance after about lvl 10-12 because if I do my Monk is DEAD!

I don't use Fire or Water FULL STOP!


I'd love to have the choice to go back to Wind Stance - The stance my Pure Monk actually started in when I created him and was meant to stay in! But that's just not possible with how the game has gone!




Yup!
The PRR from Earth Stance is quite simply REQUIRED!


Here's a possible 4 Stances though:

Earth
Offensive Bonus - + Melee Power, + Acid/Physical Spellpower
Defensive Bonus - + AC and Fort Saves
Special Bonus - Stoneskin SLA based on Monk Level.

Fire
Offensive Bonus - + Melee/Ranged Power, + Fire/Light Spellpower
Defensive Bonus - + AC and MRR Cap
Special Bonus - Firewall SLA based on Monk Level.

Air
Offensive Bonus - + Doublestrike, + Electric/Sonic Spellpower
Defensive Bonus - + Dodge and Reflex Saves
Special Bonus - Displacement SLA based on Monk Level.

Water
Offensive Bonus - + Cold Spellpower and Fortification Bypass.
Defensive Bonus - + Dodge and Will Saves
Special Bonus - Permanent FoM

The Spellpower Bonuses should at least equal what is lost by a Caster splashing Monk levels.


PRR removed from Stances entirely and given to ALL Monks regardless!

These are good ideas.And that fire stance could help Henshin be mystic.

[Angelic-council]

For the FvS changes, they only changing core 6 and adding deity? Btw, I like those other changes that is coming, new cosmetics etc. If we could use that armor from their latest update YouTube video, that would be fantastic. I like that art style +1