The Prowler: Covert Assassin of House Thuranni

[TueNictGut]

[QUOTE=Saekee;6051168]Ok so I will not call it the Courtesan...

Hey Saekee, i have put together a fascinate Assassin, named The Courtesan (if u dont mind) for fun:
Iam posting here, because this is THE thread for experimental atempts on the Assassin and its probably not worth its own post, because its untested and i have never played a bard so its pure vitreous theorycrafting, awaiting the friendly stones of criticism
Im not playing the next months, so its going to stay untested most likely...

If you want me to create an own post, to keep your post clean of this please say so!

Let me proudly introduce: The Courtesan (Name inspired by Saekee):

A Drow Rog18 Brd1 FvS1 Assassin, which sacrifices damage for control to ensure Assassination and one on one fights due to Fascinate, sirens song, sap and shadowdagger with an extraordinary high umd, bluff and diplomacy.

Essentials:
>> Race: As Drow boost all 3 main attributes of the Courtesan, and it has no Ap for a racialtree to spare, this is a build, where drow is best even on a 36 point split uncontested!
>> Fvs: Divine Presence to boost Dire charge and make up a bit for the lost dmg, magical training for unlimited divine presence, scathing words and coocon.
>> Scathing words and Haunting Song: for -5 fort save on fascinated mobs to improve your Assassinate to make up for the loss of Assassinate from splashing. Scathing words -3 can be used outside of fascination in grps.
>> Song uses: +3 musical studies, +2 Tavern Shanties, +3 Lasting inspiration, +3 allure: 12 Songs/rest, lasting for 1min and 12 sec
( lingering songs and lasting inspiration)
Equip an Anthem item to regenerate 1 song/minute and i bet there are items giving extra songuses too.
>> Cha: starts with 18, build needs to get maximum possible bonus from items and buffs for fascinate and divine Presence.
>> Perform: skillfocus+3, skills+1 roguespecial, allure +6. otherwise get every bonus from items and buffs.
i could add +3 from skilling charlatan and +1 from skill mastery in shadowdancer if needed.
Performwise a full cha bard should be only better due to his higher charisma, so this build should not be too far behind theoretically.

A typical Solo-Routine could be:
fascinate from Stealth > Swashbuckler insults resulting in -5 on mobs forts saves from haunting songs and scathing Words > bluff >Assassinate, > kill one in melee > control rest of mobs with sap and Sirens Song and shadowdagger and when necessary another fascinate while using assassinate whenever possible and creating 1 on 1 fights.
Or Assassinate 2 from Stealth > meld into darkness > fascinate > Scathing Insults > Sap one for safety > bluff > assassinate > melee one> control further with sap and fascinate, keeping sirenssong and shadowdagger in the backhand for emergencycontrol following the same logic like above.

This way it should be able to solo difficult content with enemies susceptible for fascinate and assassinate, where regular Assassins have a hard time. The Courtesan may be even able to solo lower Reaper...but this is pure speculation
Maybe fascinate is usable in cautious groups in reaper too, together with diplomacy to get rid of the agro of ex fascinated mobs.

Movementspeed from ShadowtrainingII could be very useful to place initial fascinate without loosing much time in grps or solo.
Meld into darknes, improved invisibility and uncanny dodge to survive failed attempts and ensure the fascination of already angry mobs
Executioners strike, shiv, improved feint and hasteboost to fasten your 1 on 1 melee kills before the next assassination of a fascinated spectator...


Charmeur Melee Assassin
18/1/1 Rogue/Bard/Favored Soul
Chaotic Good Drow


Level Order

1. Rogue. . . . . .6. Rogue. . . . . 11. Rogue. . . . . 16. Rogue
2. Rogue. . . . . .7. Rogue. . . . . 12. Rogue. . . . . 17. Rogue
3. Rogue. . . . . .8. Rogue. . . . . 13. Rogue. . . . . 18. Rogue
4. Rogue. . . . . .9. Rogue. . . . . 14. Bard. . . . . .19. Rogue
5. Favored Soul. .10. Rogue . . . . .15. Rogue . . . . .20. Rogue


Stats
. . . . . . . .32pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . .8. . . .+3. . . .4: DEX
Dexterity . . . 18. . . .+6. . . .8: DEX
Constitution. . 12. . . .+4. . . 12: DEX
Intelligence. . 16. . . .+4. . . 16: DEX
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . .+3. . . 20: DEX
Charisma. . . . 18. . . .+3. . . 24: DEX
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: DEX

Skills
. . . . . R. R. R. R. F .R .R .R .R .R .R .R .R .B. R. R. R. R. R. R
. . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5 .6 .7 .8 .9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Perform . 1. ½. . . . . . . . .½ .½ .½ .1 .1 .1 11 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Disable . 4. 1. 1. 1. . .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 1. 1. 1. 1. 2. 1. 23
Search. . 4. 1. 1. 1. . .1 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Spot. . . 4. 1. 1. 1. . .1 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 1. 1. 1. 2. 1. 1. 23
Bluff . . 4. 1. 1. 1. . .1 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 1. 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Diplo . . 2. . . . . .6. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. . .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .2 .23
Balance . 4. 1. 1. 1. . .1 .1 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 1. 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Hide. . . 4. 1. 1. 1. . .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 1. 1. 2. 1. 1. 1. 23
Move Si . 4. 1. 1. 1. . .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 1. 1. 2. 1. 1. 1. 23
UMD . . . 4. 1. 1. 1. . .1 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Open Lo . 4. 1. 1. . . . . . . 2. 2. 2. 1. 1. 1. . . . . . . 1. 1. 1. 18
Jump. . . . .2 .3 .2 . . . . . . .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . . . . . . . . . . 12
Tumble. . 4. . . . 2. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .6
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .44 12 12 12 .6 12 13 13 13 13 13 13 13 11 13 13 13 13 13 13


Feats

.1. . . . : Two Weapon Fighting
.3. . . . : Improved Feint
.6. . . . : Sap
.9. . . . : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Piercing
15. . . . : Precision
18. . . . : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
21 Epic . : Improved Sneak Attack
24 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Skill Focus: Perform
28 Destiny: Lasting Inspiration
29 Destiny: Dire Charge
30 Epic . : Blinding Speed
30 Legend : Scion of: Astral Plane

11 Rogue. : Improved Evasion
15 Rogue. : Opportunist
18 Rogue. : Skill Mastery

.5 Deity. : Follower of: The Blood of Vol


Spells

Bard

1. Detect Secret Doors

Favored Soul

1. Protection from Evil, Nightshield

Enhancements (80 AP)

Assassin (37 AP)

• Knife in the Darkness, Dagger in the Back, Assassin's Trick, Nimbleness, Lethality
  1. Shiv I, Sneak Attack Training, Stealthy II
  2. Venomed Blades III, Sneak Attack Training, Damage Boost III
  3. Critical Mastery II, Shadow Dagger III, Sneak Attack Training, Dexterity
  4. Sneak Attack Training, Dexterity
  5. Assassinate, Measure the Foe III, Knife Specialization

Vistani Knife Fighter (23 AP)

• Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Knife Specialist, One With Blades
  1. Vistani Knife Training, Undead Hunter, Mist Stalker, Rapid Attack
  2. Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker, Haste Boost
  3. Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker, Deadly Blades
  4. Double Daggers

Spellsinger (8 AP)

• Spellsinger
  1. Haunting Melody I, Studies: Musical III, Lingering Songs III

Swashbuckler (5 AP)

• Confidence
  1. Insults: Scathing Words II, Tavern Shanties II

War Soul (4 AP)

• Smite Foe
  1. Divine Presence III

Thief-Acrobat (3 AP)

• Staff Control
  1. Fast Movement

Destiny (24 AP)

Shadowdancer

1. Stealthy III, Dexterity
2. Lithe I, Dexterity
3. Shrouding Strike III, Meld into Darkness I, Grim Precision III, Dexterity
4. Improved Invisibility III
5. Untouchable, Executioner's Strike I
6. Shadow Form

Twists of Fate (27 fate points)

1. Balanced Attacks (Tier 3 Primal)
2. Siren's Song (Tier 3 Fatesinger)
3. Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)
4. Allure (Tier 1 Fatesinger)
5. Music of the Spider Queen (Tier 1 Fatesinger)

Productive or eperience based critic, opinions and ideas to optimize this aproach are very welcome

Im particulary interested in necessary performskill on EE and Reaper, experience with sirens song, insight about barditems and the bardclass.
Specific questions are: is this build able to reach the performskill to reliable fascinate on EE, Reaper and endgame? is it possible to play fascinate song from stealth or while invisible? Are scathing words or bluff breaking fascination? How long do scathing words and the blind of shadow dagger last? Is it necessary to use bluff before assassinating fascinated enemies?

Keep this great game alive and fix the dam Stealth and Agromechanic !
Tagedieb

[Saekee]

[QUOTE=TueNictGut;6055577]

Ok so I will not call it the Courtesan...

Hey Saekee, i have put together a fascinate Assassin, named The Courtesan (if u dont mind) for fun:
Iam posting here, because this is THE thread for experimental atempts on the Assassin and its probably not worth its own post, because its untested and i have never played a bard so its pure vitreous theorycrafting, awaiting the friendly stones of criticism
Im not playing the next months, so its going to stay untested most likely...

If you want me to create an own post, to keep your post clean of this please say so!

Let me proudly introduce: The Courtesan (Name inspired by Saekee):

A Drow Rog18 Brd1 FvS1 Assassin, which sacrifices damage for control to ensure Assassination and one on one fights due to Fascinate, sirens song, sap and shadowdagger with an extraordinary high umd, bluff and diplomacy.

Essentials:
>> Race: As Drow boost all 3 main attributes of the Courtesan, and it has no Ap for a racialtree to spare, this is a build, where drow is best even on a 36 point split uncontested!
>> Fvs: Divine Presence to boost Dire charge and make up a bit for the lost dmg, magical training for unlimited divine presence, scathing words and coocon.
>> Scathing words and Haunting Song: for -5 fort save on fascinated mobs to improve your Assassinate to make up for the loss of Assassinate from splashing. Scathing words -3 can be used outside of fascination in grps.
>> Song uses: +3 musical studies, +2 Tavern Shanties, +3 Lasting inspiration, +3 allure: 12 Songs/rest, lasting for 1min and 12 sec
( lingering songs and lasting inspiration)
Equip an Anthem item to regenerate 1 song/minute and i bet there are items giving extra songuses too.
>> Cha: starts with 18, build needs to get maximum possible bonus from items and buffs for fascinate and divine Presence.
>> Perform: skillfocus+3, skills+1 roguespecial, allure +6. otherwise get every bonus from items and buffs.
i could add +3 from skilling charlatan and +1 from skill mastery in shadowdancer if needed.
Performwise a full cha bard should be only better due to his higher charisma, so this build should not be too far behind theoretically.

A typical Solo-Routine could be:
fascinate from Stealth > Swashbuckler insults resulting in -5 on mobs forts saves from haunting songs and scathing Words > bluff >Assassinate, > kill one in melee > control rest of mobs with sap and Sirens Song and shadowdagger and when necessary another fascinate while using assassinate whenever possible and creating 1 on 1 fights.
Or Assassinate 2 from Stealth > meld into darkness > fascinate > Scathing Insults > Sap one for safety > bluff > assassinate > melee one> control further with sap and fascinate, keeping sirenssong and shadowdagger in the backhand for emergencycontrol following the same logic like above.

This way it should be able to solo difficult content with enemies susceptible for fascinate and assassinate, where regular Assassins have a hard time. The Courtesan may be even able to solo lower Reaper...but this is pure speculation
Maybe fascinate is usable in cautious groups in reaper too, together with diplomacy to get rid of the agro of ex fascinated mobs.

Movementspeed from ShadowtrainingII could be very useful to place initial fascinate without loosing much time in grps or solo.
Meld into darknes, improved invisibility and uncanny dodge to survive failed attempts and ensure the fascination of already angry mobs
Executioners strike, shiv, improved feint and hasteboost to fasten your 1 on 1 melee kills before the next assassination of a fascinated spectator...


Charmeur Melee Assassin
18/1/1 Rogue/Bard/Favored Soul
Chaotic Good Drow


Level Order

1. Rogue. . . . . .6. Rogue. . . . . 11. Rogue. . . . . 16. Rogue
2. Rogue. . . . . .7. Rogue. . . . . 12. Rogue. . . . . 17. Rogue
3. Rogue. . . . . .8. Rogue. . . . . 13. Rogue. . . . . 18. Rogue
4. Rogue. . . . . .9. Rogue. . . . . 14. Bard. . . . . .19. Rogue
5. Favored Soul. .10. Rogue . . . . .15. Rogue . . . . .20. Rogue


Stats
. . . . . . . .32pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . .8. . . .+3. . . .4: DEX
Dexterity . . . 18. . . .+6. . . .8: DEX
Constitution. . 12. . . .+4. . . 12: DEX
Intelligence. . 16. . . .+4. . . 16: DEX
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . .+3. . . 20: DEX
Charisma. . . . 18. . . .+3. . . 24: DEX
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: DEX

Skills
. . . . . R. R. R. R. F .R .R .R .R .R .R .R .R .B. R. R. R. R. R. R
. . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5 .6 .7 .8 .9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Perform . 1. ½. . . . . . . . .½ .½ .½ .1 .1 .1 11 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Disable . 4. 1. 1. 1. . .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 1. 1. 1. 1. 2. 1. 23
Search. . 4. 1. 1. 1. . .1 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Spot. . . 4. 1. 1. 1. . .1 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 1. 1. 1. 2. 1. 1. 23
Bluff . . 4. 1. 1. 1. . .1 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 1. 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Diplo . . 2. . . . . .6. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. . .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .2 .23
Balance . 4. 1. 1. 1. . .1 .1 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 1. 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Hide. . . 4. 1. 1. 1. . .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 1. 1. 2. 1. 1. 1. 23
Move Si . 4. 1. 1. 1. . .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 1. 1. 2. 1. 1. 1. 23
UMD . . . 4. 1. 1. 1. . .1 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Open Lo . 4. 1. 1. . . . . . . 2. 2. 2. 1. 1. 1. . . . . . . 1. 1. 1. 18
Jump. . . . .2 .3 .2 . . . . . . .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . . . . . . . . . . 12
Tumble. . 4. . . . 2. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .6
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .44 12 12 12 .6 12 13 13 13 13 13 13 13 11 13 13 13 13 13 13


Feats

.1. . . . : Two Weapon Fighting
.3. . . . : Improved Feint
.6. . . . : Sap
.9. . . . : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Piercing
15. . . . : Precision
18. . . . : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
21 Epic . : Improved Sneak Attack
24 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Skill Focus: Perform
28 Destiny: Lasting Inspiration
29 Destiny: Dire Charge
30 Epic . : Blinding Speed
30 Legend : Scion of: Astral Plane

11 Rogue. : Improved Evasion
15 Rogue. : Opportunist
18 Rogue. : Skill Mastery

.5 Deity. : Follower of: The Blood of Vol


Spells

Bard

1. Detect Secret Doors

Favored Soul

1. Protection from Evil, Nightshield

Enhancements (80 AP)

Assassin (37 AP)

• Knife in the Darkness, Dagger in the Back, Assassin's Trick, Nimbleness, Lethality
  
  1. Shiv I, Sneak Attack Training, Stealthy II
  2. Venomed Blades III, Sneak Attack Training, Damage Boost III
  3. Critical Mastery II, Shadow Dagger III, Sneak Attack Training, Dexterity
  4. Sneak Attack Training, Dexterity
  5. Assassinate, Measure the Foe III, Knife Specialization

Vistani Knife Fighter (23 AP)

• Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Knife Specialist, One With Blades
  
  1. Vistani Knife Training, Undead Hunter, Mist Stalker, Rapid Attack
  2. Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker, Haste Boost
  3. Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker, Deadly Blades
  4. Double Daggers

Spellsinger (8 AP)

• Spellsinger
  
  1. Haunting Melody I, Studies: Musical III, Lingering Songs III

Swashbuckler (5 AP)

• Confidence
  
  1. Insults: Scathing Words II, Tavern Shanties II

War Soul (4 AP)

• Smite Foe
  
  1. Divine Presence III

Thief-Acrobat (3 AP)

• Staff Control
  
  1. Fast Movement

Destiny (24 AP)

Shadowdancer

1. Stealthy III, Dexterity
2. Lithe I, Dexterity
3. Shrouding Strike III, Meld into Darkness I, Grim Precision III, Dexterity
4. Improved Invisibility III
5. Untouchable, Executioner's Strike I
6. Shadow Form

Twists of Fate (27 fate points)

1. Balanced Attacks (Tier 3 Primal)
2. Siren's Song (Tier 3 Fatesinger)
3. Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)
4. Allure (Tier 1 Fatesinger)
5. Music of the Spider Queen (Tier 1 Fatesinger)

Productive or eperience based critic, opinions and ideas to optimize this aproach are very welcome

Im particulary interested in necessary performskill on EE and Reaper, experience with sirens song, insight about barditems and the bardclass.
Specific questions are: is this build able to reach the performskill to reliable fascinate on EE, Reaper and endgame? is it possible to play fascinate song from stealth or while invisible? Are scathing words or bluff breaking fascination? How long do scathing words and the blind of shadow dagger last? Is it necessary to use bluff before assassinating fascinated enemies?

Keep this great game alive and fix the dam Stealth and Agromechanic !
Tagedieb

thanks for sharing! This is a cool idea! Are planning to run with it? Fascinate could be, indeed, one of the simplest ways to get past groups of packed mobs. I have no idea how it might work or be improved, other than maybe swapping Fvs for barb, or archmage, or even monk since vistani keeps them centered

[TueNictGut]

Well im not playing the next few month, but i would like to test it someday. First i have Rogue Vistanibuild in mind using daggers and throwing daggers, (in fact its 2 build one assassin with full melee and imp precis shots and strong throwing daggers and rog 13 build with strong melee option and furyshotburstsmg) though, althaugh while theorycrafting i got really attached to the idea of the Courtesan.
I need to find out the necessary Perform for engame low reaper. A pure cha bard should have somthing like about 10 -15 points more in perform from the higher cha, i might post this in the bardforum and ask for help. Do u mind to find out the duration of the blindeffect of shadowdaggers sometime?
At first the Courtesan was a 18rog brd barb, i just found divine presence and magical training more intriguing. i like the idea of a monk splash very much though, gets 1 feat, the possibility to squeeze in monk stances somehow, +4% doublestrike from Scion of the astral plane and faster sneaking + 10% mp for 1 ap.

[TueNictGut]

Well im not playing the next few month, but i would like to test it someday. First i have Rogue Vistanibuild in mind using daggers and throwing daggers, (in fact its 2 build one assassin with full melee and imp precis shots and strong throwing daggers and rog 13 build with strong melee option and furyshotburstsmg) though, althaugh while theorycrafting i got really attached to the idea of the Courtesan.
I need to find out the necessary Perform for engame low reaper. A pure cha bard should have somthing like about 10 -15 points more in perform from the higher cha, i might post this in the bardforum and ask for help. Do u mind to find out the duration of the blindeffect of shadowdaggers sometime?
At first the Courtesan was a 18rog brd barb, i just found divine presence and magical training more intriguing. i like the idea of a monk splash very much though, gets 1 feat, the possibility to squeeze in monk stances somehow, +4% doublestrike from Scion of the astral plane and faster sneaking + 10% mp for 1 ap.

@monksplash you cannot combine bard and monk due to alignment unfortunately...

[TueNictGut]

Seems as if the hardcap is 85 to be sure but as fascinate adds d20 a perform of 80 might be a fair aim to reach.
Perform: 23 skills +18 from cha (assuming i can reach 46 cha) 22 slaveryitem +11 insightful +3 persuasion +4 gh +6 allure +1 roguespecial, skillfocus +3 +2 good luck +2 shipbuff = 95 ok this will definetly be doable, i can drop things like skillfocus and roguespecialskill and maybe go cha 16 instead of 18 and dont need to invest more ap in things like charlatan and i wont need a slaveryitem either.

The Courtesan might really work!

Does imp. feint do any dmg by itself? or is it possible to use it to bluff 2 fascinated enemies for double assassination?

[Saekee]

Seems as if the hardcap is 85 to be sure but as fascinate adds d20 a perform of 80 might be a fair aim to reach.
Perform: 23 skills +18 from cha (assuming i can reach 46 cha) 22 slaveryitem +11 insightful +3 persuasion +4 gh +6 allure +1 roguespecial, skillfocus +3 +2 good luck +2 shipbuff = 95 ok this will definetly be doable, i can drop things like skillfocus and roguespecialskill and maybe go cha 16 instead of 18 and dont need to invest more ap in things like charlatan and i wont need a slaveryitem either.

The Courtesan might really work!

Does imp. feint do any dmg by itself? or is it possible to use it to bluff 2 fascinated enemies for double assassination?

I wonder if the LGS skills boost adds even more
Improved feint is an attack on a single target that then bluffs all in an arc in front

[TueNictGut]

Courtesan int based
18/1/1 Rogue/Bard/Wizard
Chaotic Neutral Drow


Level Order

1. Rogue. . . . . .6. Rogue. . . . . 11. Rogue. . . . . 16. Rogue
2. Rogue. . . . . .7. Rogue. . . . . 12. Rogue. . . . . 17. Rogue
3. Wizard. . . . . 8. Rogue . . . . .13. Rogue . . . . .18. Rogue
4. Rogue. . . . . .9. Rogue. . . . . 14. Bard. . . . . .19. Rogue
5. Rogue. . . . . 10. Rogue. . . . . 15. Rogue. . . . . 20. Rogue


Stats
. . . . . . . .32pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . .8. . . .+3. . . .4: INT
Dexterity . . . 15. . . .+6. . . .8: INT
Constitution. . 12. . . .+4. . . 12: INT
Intelligence. . 20. . . .+5. . . 16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . .+3. . . 20: INT
Charisma. . . . 15. . . .+4. . . 24: INT
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: INT

Skills
. . . . . R. R. W .R .R .R .R .R .R .R .R .R .R .B. R. R. R. R. R. R
. . . . . 1. 2. 3 .4 .5 .6 .7 .8 .9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Perform . . .½ .1. . . . . . . 1. ½. . . . . . .14 . . . .1 .2 .2 .1 .23
Disable . 4. 1. . .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Open Lo . 4. 1. . .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 3. 23
Search. . 4. 1. . .1 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Spot. . . 4. 1. . .1 .1 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 1. 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Bluff . . 4. 1. . .1 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 1. 1. 2. 1. 1. 1. 23
Diplo . . 4. 1. . .1 .1 .1 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 1. 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Balance . 4. 1. . .1 .1 .1 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 1. 1. 2. 1. 1. 1. 23
Jump. . . 4. 1. . .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Hide. . . 4. 1. . .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 1. 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Move Si . 4. 1. . .1 .1 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 1. 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Haggle. . 4. 1. . .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
UMD . . . 4. 1. . .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Tumble. . 4. 1. . . . 1. 1. 1. 2. 1. 1. 2. 1. 1. . .1 .1 . . . . . 2. 20
Concent . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . .1½ 1. 2. 2. . . . . .½ .½ .½ . . 14
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .52 14 .8 15 15 15 15 16 16 16 16 17 17 15 17 17 17 17 17 18


Feats

.1. . . . : Two Weapon Fighting
.3. . . . : Improved Feint
.3 Wizard : Quicken Spell
.6. . . . : Sap
.9. . . . : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Piercing
15. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
18. . . . : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
21 Epic . : Improved Sneak Attack
24 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
26 Destiny: Lasting Inspiration
27 Epic . : Epic Reflexes
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
29 Destiny: Dire Charge
30 Epic . : Epic Reputation
30 Legend : Scion of: Astral Plane

11 Rogue. : Improved Evasion
15 Rogue. : Opportunist
18 Rogue. : Skill Mastery


Spells

Bard

1. Focusing Chant

Wizard

1. Jump, Protection from Evil, Shield

Enhancements (80 AP)

Assassin (37 AP)

• Knife in the Darkness, Dagger in the Back, Assassin's Trick, Nimbleness, Lethality
  1. Shiv I, Sneak Attack Training, Stealthy II
  2. Venomed Blades III, Sneak Attack Training, Damage Boost III
  3. Critical Mastery I, Shadow Dagger III, Sneak Attack Training, Intelligence
  4. Killer III, Intelligence
  5. Assassinate, Measure the Foe III, Knife Specialization

Harper Agent (15 AP)

• Agent of Good I, Intelligence
  1. Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
  2. Know the Angles III
  3. Highly Skilled III, Strategic Combat

Mechanic (8 AP)

• Arbalester
  1. Thunderstone III, Mechanics I
  2. Improved Traps III

Thief-Acrobat (8 AP)

• Staff Control
  1. Sly Flourish II, Fast Movement
  2. Haste Boost III

Spellsinger (8 AP)

• Spellsinger
  1. Haunting Melody I, Studies: Musical III, Lingering Songs III

Swashbuckler (4 AP)

• Confidence
  1. Insults: Scathing Words I, Tavern Shanties II

Destiny (24 AP)

Shadowdancer

1. Stealthy III, Technician II, Intelligence
2. Skill Mastery, Intelligence
3. Cloak of Shadows, Shrouding Strike II, Meld into Darkness III, Grim Precision III
4. Improved Invisibility II
5. Shadow Manipulation

Twists of Fate (36 fate points)

1. Balanced Attacks (Tier 3 Primal)
2. Daunting Roar (Tier 3 Draconic)
3. Echoes of Arcane (Tier 3 Fatesinger)
4. Allure (Tier 1 Fatesinger)
5. Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)

Twist in music of the spiderqueen for vermin

This is my take on an intbased max control version of the Courtesan. Its is designed for quests with mobs suspectible to fascinate and assassination and should provide a new gameexperience for a Rogue, as it thrives for total control.
Compared to the above it sacrifices the dmg from vistanitree for slightly higher perform(highly skilled from harper), longer fascinate (20% from twisting echoes of arane) magical traps, thunderstone, daunting roar, higher direcharge dc and Shadow manipulation and by that receives quite an arsenal of control instruments.

Its seriously and maybe overzealously aimed to be tested at low Reaper solo. Though it is by all means a funbuild, it may accomplish some great deeds.
It takes every controlmethod i possibly could come up with, which are quite a few actualy and it most liekely overinvested on fascinate and disable device and maybe some of the control options prove to be not necessary, so ap, destinypoints, twists and even feats can be freed for more int and dmg, testing what is needed in gameplay.

Bardlvl > Fascinate
Wizardlvl > Magical training to maintain kta, use scathing words and cocoon. Quicken spell for cocoon and scathing words.
fort debuff -7 for better assassination (-2 haunting melody, -3 scathing words, -2 daunting Roar)
Int for > attack and damage, reflex, magical traps, assassination dc, kta, dire charge dc, daunting roar dc, thunderstone and shadowdagger dc, shadow manipulation dc and endless skillpoints
Dex 15 for imp Sneak attack
Cha 15 and max from items for perform with the sideeffect of boosting umd, bluff, haggle and diplomacy.
perfect Trapmonkey: intbuild, epic reflexes

Lets take a look at the controlinstruments:
- 3 Options to blind: Thunderstone, glittering traps, shadowdagger all boosted by int opening up sneak attack, some protection (50%concealment) and maybe the possibility to assassinate by itself. (you could add shadow lance but i think thats just too much)
the combination of Thunderstone/glitterdust and fascinate opens up the option to directly assassinate fascinated enemies without having to bluff, making double assassinates possible and solving one of the main problems of the above dex split.
- Fascinate ofc. which is one of the keyskills of the build. +5 to all skill from roguespecial feat, harper agent and shadowdancer, +3 from epic reputation,+6 from allure twist are much more efficient ways to boost it than by boosting cha. Most likely perform is higher then needed with cha as the second attribute and max boost possibly from items
- Traps: playing int with improved traps and boosting disable further by +5 all skills, +4 technician +1 mechanic + all the usual items should make traps a very reliable control option and opens up some great options to initiate and backup your control over mobs. Glitterdust, Web, Deep slumber and halt undead are the commonly used ones. i will try touch of idiocy for daunting roar and the charmpart of shadowmanipulation in special cases.
- Sap: Open up a perfect controlinstrument to guarentee assassination of one enemy or to control parts of a grp.
- Charm: Shadow Manipulation, that is also boosted by int offers control, damage, an aggromagnet and an instakill in one. You can back it up easily with fascinate or webtrap or sap and assassinate if it fails. If used on a low save and or debuffed mob it should be very useful. It should be incredibly useful in Reaper and soloplay.
- AoE Paralyze: Daunting Roar. Also boosted by int, offers debuff and helplessness to take down some mobe quickly.
- AoE Stun: Dire Charge Int build and Kta guarantees a very high dc.
- very high bluff, Shiv, improved feint to sneak attack and evade some dmg.
- very high diplomacy, reduced agro from shiv and sly flourish and imp.feint for grpplay.

Examples for Combos:
- double assassinate> glitterdust>Meld into darkness fascinate> scathing words >double assassinate
- double assassinate > dire charge >touch of idiocytrap>Shadow Manipulation>Diplomacy>double assassination
always having lots of instruments to fall back too if something fails dire charge/daunting roar/ prepared traps/Sap/thunderstone ...

These controlmethods open up more possibilities of combination, as i can forsee without playing. As you always want to have control of your enemies you need to make lots of choices, you need to test and develop different routines for specific situations. Therefore this is a build with a high learning curve for players, who like mindful play and precise planning.

I will test this build someday, if someone wants to give it a try or has some ideas or productive crticism your feedback is very welcome
All have Fun, Tagedieb

[Saekee]

sounds well-thought & fun!

[lusith]

18 Rogue/1 Wizard/1 Barbarian

NOTE: Forumite Shadowlord Tagedieb has played this build to cap and reports on this in post#34. Here is his build's pic:



I am still playtesting this build. All constructive feedback kindly welcomed. I am experimenting with a 28pt build on Wayfinder, currently level 16, non-VIP (so not an elite opener) and poorly geared. All well so far, the boost to movement speed and free invisi is simply awesome for my playstyle. Edit: I am working on halfling PLs & experimenting multiclass faster sneaking before returning to this split.

Forum user Dalros is playtesting a Deep Gnome INT variation throughout the thread; click here for his level 20 evaluation and here for his final report. It is a clever use of INT-DC sla Prismatic spray for blinding/dazing/silencing mobs great synergy with rogue! His own thread is here.

General Philosophy
This build sacrifices the powerful capstone of the assassin tree for defensive and gameplay utilities which assist the assassin in stealth and survivability. (Late heroics become slightly more difficult due to the shifting of the level 18 core & GTWF, but that is not much of an issue.) Extended elven dragon marks (about 28 minutes displaced at cap with gear, intrinsic to build and not GS clickie dependent), 10% barbarian movement speed bonus (total of 28% movement speed buff, handy for sneaking), extended quickened invisibility archmage SLA 1sp, ES AoE attack option, quickened cocoon, Feat: magical training for permanent SP. FUN. Ease of weaving in the fade with dragonmarks.

Assuming the enhancements work as advertised (a VERY BIG assumption; I think it does not), the 75% stealth speed of assassins (stealthy tier 1) means that The Prowler's stealth speed is faster than a pure assassin's full non-stealthed run speed! (28x75%=21)

The usual difficulty of developing a workable endgame assassinate DC is mediated by gear, power creep and feat options, finally giving some flexibility to the class and play style. Also, the availability of sneak damage and melee power on gear will aid, though never succeed, in overcoming the huge loss of the capstone's DPS. Hence this is not a max-DPS build; it is about Style, Speed & Survivability.

Fun fact: Eldritch strike does not break stealth and invisibility. Whoot!

The build's bane: enemies, champs and bosses with True Seeing. The rats!

Leveling: R Wiz Barb (rest Rogue)
Feats:
1: TWF
2: Wizard bonus feat: extend (use this on the archmage invisi SLA along with quicken later)
2: Free feat: magical training
3: Least Dragonmark of Shadow
6: Precision
9: ITWF
12: IC: Slashing or Piercing
15: quicken (this makes the Invisi SLA insanely fun)
18: Greater TWF
21: Epic sneak attack
24: OC
26 PTWF
28 Elusive Target
29 Dire Charge
30 Epic Reflexes
30 Scion of Astral


Rogue:
10 Improved evasion
13 Oppportunist
16 Defensive Roll


ED:
Shadowdancer, including Executioner’s Strike
Twists: usual, like balanced attacks, cocoon, etc.


Enhancements:
Assassin: 42 (all tier 5s & lethality, 2 Dex)
acrobat: 23 (Improved defensive roll tier 2, kip up, 3 Shadow dodge Dex)
Elf: 13 (extended displacement dragonmarks, 2 Dex, +4% accuracy. I plan to experiment with Feywild tap's incorp)
Archmage: 1 (quickened extended invisibility SLA 1sp)
EK: 1 (Eldritch Strike, 1% DS) This attack currently does not break invisibility or stealth. Optional. You can also just take improved defensive roll to tier 3.

Achievable dex of 78: 20base, 6tome, 7levels, 2assassin, 4acrobat, 17item (slave lord), 7insight (LGS), 1exc, 4 quality, 2profane, 2shadowdancer, 2yugo, 2ship, 2 Elf
Edit: one could also add 2 from reaper helm, 2 from racial past lives, and 1 from reaper core. That is a grindy option. This build uses the racial tree though so even a couple of racial AP means 'options.'

Assassinate DC: 10 base + 18 rogue levels + 6 stealthy (shadowdancer tier 1) + 4 scion of the astral plane + 10 Gear (7 murderous/3 insightful) + 34 from 78 dex + 5 measure the foe = 87
This can be buffed further with the earlier racial/reaper notes or even Tenser’s (+2 from +4 Dex) or Slave Lord’s Might 5 piece (+1 from +2 Artifact to Dex)
You can also take 6 dex in Shadowdancer for another +2 but that would waste better selections available
This would raise the DC to 91


Gear: This is under consideration
a must: swap item Epic Chimera Crown (post shrine/start of quest). With the eChimera Crown, you gain one extra use of displacement. At cap, extended, that is approximately 6 minutes x 4; add into the rotation between uses SD’s improved invisibility for 90 secondsx3=270sec or 4.5 minutes for a total of 28.5 minutes displaced). This displacement is intrinsic to the build, not GS clicky.
Slave Lord's Might for buff to Dex (17, +4 quality) and awesome set bonus
LGS for insight bonus to Dex (7) or some other substitute (lootgen, cannith crafted)

Considering:
ToEE set to compensate for loss of melee power of capstone

From Tagedieb:

What level do you take wizard and barbarion? 1 and 2?

[Saekee]

What level do you take wizard and barbarion? 1 and 2?

yes, either one first.

I am playing a splash with monk levels and it is very fun

[HuneyMunster]

Biggest issue for me with splashing 2 levels of X is losing 2 Int/Dex and 2 Assassinate DC from capstone and 2 rogue levels for an effective loss of 5 DC.

Probably gonna go with Gnome int based Color Spray Assassin once Ive done my racial lives with something like this setup.

New Build
Rogue 20
True Neutral Gnome


Stats
. . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . .6. . . .+7. . . .4: INT
Dexterity . . . 14. . . .+7. . . .8: INT
Constitution. . 16. . . .+7. . . 12: INT
Intelligence. . 20. . . .+7. . . 16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . .+7. . . 20: INT
Charisma. . . . 12. . . .+7. . . 24: INT
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: INT

Feats

.1. . . . : Improved Feint
.3. . . . : Two Weapon Fighting
.6. . . . : Precision
.9. . . . : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Piercing
15. . . . : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18. . . . : Magical Training
21 Epic . : Improved Sneak Attack
24 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: Elusive Target
29 Destiny: Dire Charge
30 Epic . : Completionist
30 Legend : Scion of: Astral Plane

10 Rogue. : Improved Evasion
13 Rogue. : Opportunist
16 Rogue. : Defensive Roll
19 Rogue. : Slippery Mind


Enhancements (80+11 AP)

Assassin (41 AP)

• Knife in the Darkness, Dagger in the Back, Assassin's Trick, Nimbleness, Lethality, Deadly Shadow
  1. Poison Strikes: Heartseeker, Shiv I, Sneak Attack Training, Stealthy III
  2. Venomed Blades III, Sneak Attack Training, Damage Boost I
  3. Sneak Attack Training, Intelligence
  4. Execute, Weakening Strikes, Sneak Attack Training, Intelligence
  5. Assassinate, Measure the Foe III, Deadly Strikes, Light Armor Mastery III

Vistani Knife Fighter (24 AP)

• Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Knife Specialist, One With Blades
  1. Vistani Knife Training, Undead Hunter, Mist Stalker, Rapid Attack
  2. Vistani Knife Training, Haste Boost III
  3. Vistani Knife Training, Deadly Blades, Intelligence
  4. Celerity, Double Daggers

Harper Agent (12 AP)

• Agent of Good I, Intelligence
  1. Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
  2. Know the Angles III
  3. Strategic Combat

Gnome (11 AP)

• Gnomish Perserverance, Intelligence, Gnomish Perserverance II, Intelligence II, Retain Scroll Essence
  1. (none)
  2. Color Spray III
  3. Nimble Reaction I

Thief-Acrobat (3 AP)

• Staff Control
  1. Fast Movement

[Saekee]

Biggest issue for me with splashing 2 levels of X is losing 2 Int/Dex and 2 Assassinate DC from capstone and 2 rogue levels for an effective loss of 5 DC.

Probably gonna go with Gnome int based Color Spray Assassin once Ive done my racial lives with something like this setup.

New Build
Rogue 20
True Neutral Gnome


Stats
. . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . .6. . . .+7. . . .4: INT
Dexterity . . . 14. . . .+7. . . .8: INT
Constitution. . 16. . . .+7. . . 12: INT
Intelligence. . 20. . . .+7. . . 16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . .+7. . . 20: INT
Charisma. . . . 12. . . .+7. . . 24: INT
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: INT

Feats

.1. . . . : Improved Feint
.3. . . . : Two Weapon Fighting
.6. . . . : Precision
.9. . . . : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Piercing
15. . . . : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18. . . . : Magical Training
21 Epic . : Improved Sneak Attack
24 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: Elusive Target
29 Destiny: Dire Charge
30 Epic . : Completionist
30 Legend : Scion of: Astral Plane

10 Rogue. : Improved Evasion
13 Rogue. : Opportunist
16 Rogue. : Defensive Roll
19 Rogue. : Slippery Mind


Enhancements (80+11 AP)

Assassin (41 AP)

• Knife in the Darkness, Dagger in the Back, Assassin's Trick, Nimbleness, Lethality, Deadly Shadow
  
  1. Poison Strikes: Heartseeker, Shiv I, Sneak Attack Training, Stealthy III
  2. Venomed Blades III, Sneak Attack Training, Damage Boost I
  3. Sneak Attack Training, Intelligence
  4. Execute, Weakening Strikes, Sneak Attack Training, Intelligence
  5. Assassinate, Measure the Foe III, Deadly Strikes, Light Armor Mastery III

Vistani Knife Fighter (24 AP)

• Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Knife Specialist, One With Blades
  
  1. Vistani Knife Training, Undead Hunter, Mist Stalker, Rapid Attack
  2. Vistani Knife Training, Haste Boost III
  3. Vistani Knife Training, Deadly Blades, Intelligence
  4. Celerity, Double Daggers

Harper Agent (12 AP)

• Agent of Good I, Intelligence
  
  1. Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
  2. Know the Angles III
  3. Strategic Combat

Gnome (11 AP)

• Gnomish Perserverance, Intelligence, Gnomish Perserverance II, Intelligence II, Retain Scroll Essence
  
  1. (none)
  2. Color Spray III
  3. Nimble Reaction I

Thief-Acrobat (3 AP)

• Staff Control
  
  1. Fast Movement

I would still splash. Color spray on an INT build can hit them with daze helplessness. Too bad you can’t get no mercy from TA. I would want quicken on that color spray. 1 wiz would give you that and access to quick invisi. Color spray—>helpless—>drop into sneak and assassinate. Does color spray do anything to reapers?

[HuneyMunster]

I would still splash. Color spray on an INT build can hit them with daze helplessness. Too bad you can’t get no mercy from TA. I would want quicken on that color spray. 1 wiz would give you that and access to quick invisi. Color spray—>helpless—>drop into sneak and assassinate. Does color spray do anything to reapers?

All 3 parts of Color Spray seem to work on reapers and also blinds/silences undead and was working well for me on a my gnome sorc I tried it on with 16 int and deep demise dagger/Cannith illusion goggles. I also did 3x Deep Gnome on Sorc and at higher levels wasn't as strong but still effective. I would think with 3 deep gnome past lives (which I have on my rogue) on an Int build could work well.

It does break sneak though. Quicken is certainly nice to have for it as felt slow to me compared to Sorc casting speed, but as a assassin your able to sneak in closer before getting agro to cast it the with slower casting speed.

Currently testing out traps at the moment without points in mech and they they are still working well without point in improved traps. Web, Glitterdust and Hypnotic Patten are all seem to have good enough DC at level 10 with Keylock ring on 16 Int that focuses on Dex build with 6/2 Int helm. Think they are all lasting around 30 seconds on r2-3 skulls. Seems like dc is 10+spell level+int mod+ 50% disable dc, but not sure yet without any major testing.

I usually use Bluff, Improved Feint and Shiv combination on reapers to give me enough time to kill them before they can usually get a hit me.

[Saekee]

All 3 parts of Color Spray seem to work on reapers and also blinds/silences undead and was working well for me on a my gnome sorc I tried it on with 16 int and deep demise dagger/Cannith illusion goggles. I also did 3x Deep Gnome on Sorc and at higher levels wasn't as strong but still effective. I would think with 3 deep gnome past lives (which I have on my rogue) on an Int build could work well.

It does break sneak though. Quicken is certainly nice to have for it as felt slow to me compared to Sorc casting speed, but as a assassin your able to sneak in closer before getting agro to cast it the with slower casting speed.

Currently testing out traps at the moment without points in mech and they they are still working well without point in improved traps. Web, Glitterdust and Hypnotic Patten are all seem to have good enough DC at level 10 with Keylock ring on 16 Int that focuses on Dex build with 6/2 Int helm. Think they are all lasting around 30 seconds on r2-3 skulls. Seems like dc is 10+spell level+int mod+ 50% disable dc, but not sure yet without any major testing.

I usually use Bluff, Improved Feint and Shiv combination on reapers to give me enough time to kill them before they can usually get a hit me.

yes that is what I do on reapers but if there are two that color spray...Glitterdust does blind them

DC of traps is based on disable device skill when it is actually set, so you can unswap DD gear after setting if lag is not too bad...

If I had gnome race then I would do 18 gnome/1 arti/1 monk uncentered after level 11. Use lowbie vorpal light repeater (I have one...) and monk wraps on undead. color spray. INT based, sweet--even uncentered you get the faster sneaking boost if you take the enhancement to stack with assassin, so fast sneak speed.

Other option would be 18 rogue/2 ranger maybe or others but gnome seems really good. Maybe if it goes on sale...

[HuneyMunster]

yes that is what I do on reapers but if there are two that color spray...Glitterdust does blind them

DC of traps is based on disable device skill when it is actually set, so you can unswap DD gear after setting if lag is not too bad...

If I had gnome race then I would do 18 gnome/1 arti/1 monk uncentered after level 11. Use lowbie vorpal light repeater (I have one...) and monk wraps on undead. color spray. INT based, sweet--even uncentered you get the faster sneaking boost if you take the enhancement to stack with assassin, so fast sneak speed.

Other option would be 18 rogue/2 ranger maybe or others but gnome seems really good. Maybe if it goes on sale...

Int based with Harper you can use most simple single handed bludgeon weapons with Int mod. Gnome gives Light Hammer, Throwing Hammer and Warhammer proficiency. Artificer also adds Light Hammer, Warhammer and Morningstars as options for undead.

18/2 rogue ranger is probably what I will do for Aasimar Scourge past lives.

[Morroiel]

snip

Scion of astral plane straight up is not worth it. You lose over 25% dps compared to ethereal. And you can still hit no fail assassinate dcs (on most things, and the things you cant the 4 dc boost isnt going to help) without astral.

Id recommend spreadsheeting, a lot of choices become obvious afterwards.

[Saekee]

Int based with Harper you can use most simple single handed bludgeon weapons with Int mod. Gnome gives Light Hammer, Throwing Hammer and Warhammer proficiency. Artificer also adds Light Hammer, Warhammer and Morningstars as options for undead.

18/2 rogue ranger is probably what I will do for Aasimar Scourge past lives.

If you do 2 ranger, I recommend you take level 1: Rapid reload and level 3: proficiency in the vorpal repeater if you have one. Then swap out these feats as you get nearer level 12 for improved feint etc. Ranger gives free rapid shot so with rapid reload and chugged haste pots, you can mow reaper lowbies. It is a nice combo. Eventually you can take stacking faster sneaking but it is costly in DWS tree (8AP wasted).

[TueNictGut]

Hey Saekee,
I would be interested in your 13rog/6mnk/1 fi build you are using in your great Stealth on reaper thread.
>> Keep up the great work!
I very much like the idea of fury assassinates and knockdowns.
Got a few questions:
- Is your Assassinate even semi reliable on reaper with only 13 Roguelevels?
- is Sting of the ninja worth it ? is its damage amplified further by helplesness?
- How are you dividing groups?
- I guess monk 6 is mainly for Shadow veil and 10 movementspeedbonus together with stacking sneakspeed and fast grandmaster of forms
What other boons are you relying on and what are you doing with all the extra feats from monk and fighter?

ironfist and ofc execute with fury? whirlwind strike? Shuricans as ranged option? no mercy from Ninja spy?

Thx in advance

[HuneyMunster]

If you do 2 ranger, I recommend you take level 1: Rapid reload and level 3: proficiency in the vorpal repeater if you have one. Then swap out these feats as you get nearer level 12 for improved feint etc. Ranger gives free rapid shot so with rapid reload and chugged haste pots, you can mow reaper lowbies. It is a nice combo. Eventually you can take stacking faster sneaking but it is costly in DWS tree (8AP wasted).

Aasimar Scourge is an iconic so you start at 15.

8 points into Deepwood gets:
Far Shot - 1 sneak attack die
Stealthy - 1 sneak attack die and 3 Hide and MS for 3 AP
Tendon Cut - 50% slow to movement speed for 1 AP seems decent (interesting to know if it works on reapers)
Faster Sneaking - 50% sneak movement speed (18*125%=22.5)

Seems a decent value for the 8 points.

Scion of astral plane straight up is not worth it. You lose over 25% dps compared to ethereal. And you can still hit no fail assassinate dcs (on most things, and the things you cant the 4 dc boost isnt going to help) without astral.

Id recommend spreadsheeting, a lot of choices become obvious afterwards.

Thats defiantly something worth considering.

[TueNictGut]

Hey Saekee,
I didnt want to hijack your Stealth tactics on Reaper thread for this so i post here for some ideas on fury builds:

I can see a 18Rog 2 Mnk beeing quite fun here:
assa 37 (no deadly strikes), Ta 27 kip up, no mercy, imp defensive roll, Ninja Spy 8 faster sneaking ShinTao 8 deft strikes to compensate for the loss of double daggers and ironskin for some prr
Grandmaster of forms +4 dex, +4 dex from Ta +2 of assassin, starting dex 20 and +1-2 dex from dexrace with racial past life Ap guarentee a competetive Assassinate
Twist in Balanced Attacks, meld into darkness and either dance of flowers for offense or draconic perception for better imp defense

or a simple 19rog 1 barb with the spare points in deadly strikes and vistani or Racialstuff

Racial Pl Ap points into dex race of choice:
i like Sdk with Shadowjaunt for some fun mobility options and the option to assassinate spiders
I can see a nice little synergy from imp defensive Roll, ghostly essence and ward against weird. I also would like to test if its possible to assassinate immune to sa enemies with gloomstalker

Another idea would be a Half orc rog 20 Ta to test if Followthrough works with Adrenaline
Half orc gives damage and brutality to stack with no mercy and sense weakness
21 Ap in Half orc, 49 in Ta 11 assa. If u have some racial pl ap ditch the vault line (Ta 41) and get nimbleness, Killer and execute for a High dmg adrenaline Finisher
Going 2 handed with orc ta and fury for max 46% chance to produce secondary weapon effects, and 69% glancing blow dmg
Twist lithe and draconic presence for +12 reflex to get imp defensive Roll chance as high as possible