Deceptiion/Sneak Attack (What stacks/what doesn't?)

[Zer0AcmE]

I'm curious if anyone has done testing with multiple "Deception" items? Looking to see what stacks, what doesn't and if I'm missing anything...

I currently have the following "Deception" items on one of my characters:

Strange Tidings - Deception VIII (5%, on Sneak Attack +8 Attack/+16 Damage)
Backstabber's Gloves - Improved Deception (not much to go on from item description), Sneak Attack +5/+8, Insightful Sneak Attack +3/+5
Legendary Animated Rope - Deception 14 (on Sneak Attack +14 Attack/+22 Damage)

Now do all of these stack, Deception and Sneak Attack bonus?
Would I be receiving a bonus to Sneak Attack of +30/+51?
Would a weapon with Deception on it (in the off-hand on a thrower build) stack with the equipment Deception?
Any Deception items I'm missing that would stack with the ones listed above?

Any information/help would be realty appreciated.

[Eth]

First off you should try to look at the single things deception on these items can do or not do.

Sneak attack damage
Sneak attack attack bonus
Procing bluff (turning something around and flagging it for sneak attacks)

Items:
Category 1:
The effect deception on all items prior to U19 only effects the bluff proc (Seal of House Avithul, Golden Guile, Ring of Deceit, Agony)
Note that there are items here that have deception and some that have improved deception. The first has a 5% chance to proc bluff, the latter has a 10% chance.

Damage/attack on sneak attacks was a seperate effect called Sneak Attack Bonus. This bonus could be of type enhancement or insightful.

Category 2:
After that there are items that have all the 3 things listed above combined under the term deception (I think Strange Tidings is the only named item where that is the case, the effect also existed on random lootgen).

Category 3:
Items from U31+ with deception have the effects sneak attack damage and sneak attack attack bonus combined, but no more bluff proc.


Now what stacks?
Attack and damage have versions with enhancement and insightful bonus. Those stack. Whatever categories of items above you combine only the highest enhancement and the highest insightful bonus will apply.

For the bluff proc the highest one works. So for category 1 this would be improved deception with 10%. Some people claim however that improved deception stacks with the deception from category 2 or 3. I have no data to confirm or deny this.

You can stack the bluff proc if you use one item in an equipment slot and one item in a weapon slot (for example Agony). This was tested and confirmed by nokowi.

[Eth]

As for your example:
Sneak attack damage: +22 enhancement (rope) + 5 insight (backstabbers)
Sneak attack attack bonus: +14 enhancement (rope) + 3 insight (backstabbers)
Bluff proc: 10% (backstabbers)

Hope this makes it more clear.
Strange tidings basically does nothing here.

[Saekee]

First off you should try to look at the single things deception on these items can do or not do.

Sneak attack damage
Sneak attack attack bonus
Procing bluff (turning something around and flagging it for sneak attacks)

Items:
Category 1:
The effect deception on all items prior to U19 only effects the bluff proc (Seal of House Avithul, Golden Guile, Ring of Deceit, Agony)
Note that there are items here that have deception and some that have improved deception. The first has a 5% chance to proc bluff, the latter has a 10% chance.

Damage/attack on sneak attacks was a seperate effect called Sneak Attack Bonus. This bonus could be of type enhancement or insightful.

Category 2:
After that there are items that have all the 3 things listed above combined under the term deception (I think Strange Tidings is the only named item where that is the case, the effect also existed on random lootgen).

Category 3:
Items from U31+ with deception have the effects sneak attack damage and sneak attack attack bonus combined, but no more bluff proc.


Now what stacks?
Attack and damage have versions with enhancement and insightful bonus. Those stack. Whatever categories of items above you combine only the highest enhancement and the highest insightful bonus will apply.

For the bluff proc the highest one works. So for category 1 this would be improved deception with 10%. Some people claim however that improved deception stacks with the deception from category 2 or 3. I have no data to confirm or deny this.

You can stack the bluff proc if you use one item in an equipment slot and one item in a weapon slot (for example Agony). This was tested and confirmed by nokowi.

As for your example:
Sneak attack damage: +22 enhancement (rope) + 5 insight (backstabbers)
Sneak attack attack bonus: +14 enhancement (rope) + 3 insight (backstabbers)
Bluff proc: 10% (backstabbers)

Hope this makes it more clear.
Strange tidings basically does nothing here.

phenomenal summary!!!

[HuneyMunster]

First off you should try to look at the single things deception on these items can do or not do.

Sneak attack damage
Sneak attack attack bonus
Procing bluff (turning something around and flagging it for sneak attacks)

Items:
Category 1:
The effect deception on all items prior to U19 only effects the bluff proc (Seal of House Avithul, Golden Guile, Ring of Deceit, Agony)
Note that there are items here that have deception and some that have improved deception. The first has a 5% chance to proc bluff, the latter has a 10% chance.

Damage/attack on sneak attacks was a seperate effect called Sneak Attack Bonus. This bonus could be of type enhancement or insightful.

Category 2:
After that there are items that have all the 3 things listed above combined under the term deception (I think Strange Tidings is the only named item where that is the case, the effect also existed on random lootgen).

Category 3:
Items from U31+ with deception have the effects sneak attack damage and sneak attack attack bonus combined, but no more bluff proc.


Now what stacks?
Attack and damage have versions with enhancement and insightful bonus. Those stack. Whatever categories of items above you combine only the highest enhancement and the highest insightful bonus will apply.

For the bluff proc the highest one works. So for category 1 this would be improved deception with 10%. Some people claim however that improved deception stacks with the deception from category 2 or 3. I have no data to confirm or deny this.

You can stack the bluff proc if you use one item in an equipment slot and one item in a weapon slot (for example Agony). This was tested and confirmed by nokowi.

Does this mean that there is now a move away from weapon procs allowing rogues a chance to gain sneak attack while they have agro on the target they are attacking? If so, shiv really needs a lot shorter cooldown. Shiv has a 12 second cooldown while deepwood sniper exposing strike/shot has a 6 second cooldown. Shiv lasts for rogue level * 0.25 (5 seconds at 20) with bluff check as a save. Exposing lasts 4 seconds and has no save.

I think the last improved deception item was Assassins Kiss from ToEE which I think was originally gonna have ethereal instead of improved deception.

[Eth]

Does this mean that there is now a move away from weapon procs allowing rogues a chance to gain sneak attack while they have agro on the target they are attacking? If so, shiv really needs a lot shorter cooldown. Shiv has a 12 second cooldown while deepwood sniper exposing strike/shot has a 6 second cooldown. Shiv lasts for rogue level * 0.25 (5 seconds at 20) with bluff check as a save. Exposing lasts 4 seconds and has no save.

I think the last improved deception item was Assassins Kiss from ToEE which I think was originally gonna have ethereal instead of improved deception.

Yes, seems like they move away from the bluff proc now. The old items still exist however.
On a rogue I'd still try to fit in an improved deception item, probably golden guile or seal of house avithul. The new items add more damage. Just use both I guess?
The improved deception from Assassin's kiss, as mentioned before, would stack anyway, since it's on a weapon.

[Pyed-Pyper]

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...rove-deception