Looking for a Wizard build that doesn't really do Wizard stuff

[sk3l3t0r]

I will get right to the point, I just want the Wizard PL... and I want it fast...most lives I take 3-4 weeks from 1 - 20 and TR. This will be no different.

What I want:

- Trapping skills (can't resist that +30% xp goodness)
- Self Healing \ Self Sufficient
- Evasion
- Melee play style preferred, but not mandatory, Using Wizzy more for buffing / enhancing this playstyle
- Multi classing synergies (Wizzy / Rogue seems like a natural fit, just not sure about the third class, considering Warlock)

What I don't want:

- Anything that requires a Lesser TR (no iconics basically)... I do have a couple of +5 hearts and I already have plans for those when I will be doing my iconic lives.
- I will not be going into Epics, TR at 20

What I have to work with:

- I have lots of twink gear for casters, melees, and specialized classes however (GS clickies, Torc, Heroic Elite GH gear, House C crafted gear, Crystal Cove gear, etc ...)
- All Heroic PLs except Wizzy x1
- 10 Epic PLs, (x3 Colors of the Queen, x1 all other spheres except Arcane spehre where I only have Energy Criticals)
- All packs, All classes, all races
- Can open Elite (I am going on my 24th life, on this toon)
- +5 tomes on CON, CHA, WIS, INT, +3 tomes on DEX and STR
- +3 skill tomes on all skills (saga farming FTW)
- +1 PRR / MRR tomes from remnants trade in

[Wh070aa]

You should get wizard 12 for wraith, self heal with death aura (Unless you want to do warforged repair build, but its still good to have 12 for archmage SLA's), at least 2 rogue. Rest 6 levels are whatever (ranger(free feats man), rogue, fighter,artificer any mix of those for your preferred enchantment tree)Remember you get tons of nice spells like sleet storm(get FoM potion or item) and glitterdust, and displacement and stone skin (use wands), and tensers transformation. So you can sneak attack real good. Ice storm is nice too (for slows).

Do Harper for int to damage, play like a rogue,probably with repeater or daggers, but any weapon works.

Or if that fails just do ranger6/rogue 6/main class 8 framework. Vampire wizard is ok too, the light vulnerability just sucks. And no you cant use spell absorption items, death aura eats them.

If you go over level 20 I would recommend wizard18/rogue 2 for lich, but since you are not gonna do that, its kinda pointless. Also be careful, Your BAB is super low on wizard/rogue, so you might not get the melee feats you want. Ranger splash really helps on this IMO, but you can do ok without it.

Also consider splashing 1 barbarian for more movement speed. My preferred wizard build is 18 wizard/1arti,1barbarian (Frenzied Berserker tier 1 Athletics 3 is super troll on a wizard), but I like caster/ranged play style.

+30 jump from jump spell and dimension door are nice too. And access to all the arcane scrolls and stuff.

Problems are lack of mana, champions with true seeing,squishyness and lack of mobility.Get quicken, extend,and maximize/empower. Remember to scroll(/wand/potion) the hell out of everything you can, and you should be fine. Also DoT's and AoE's are your friends. Check out wizard sell list and see what spells you might like. There are combos like Geese and Flaming Sphere, that will make you laugh, if used properly. Remember you can switch out the spells, so have fun with them. Check the rare scroll list to see what to take, and what you can just buy (Death Aura and Negative Energy Burst being ones some people miss and can't find afterwards).

[C-Dog]

With all those Tomes and PL goodness, shouldn't be hard...

Wh070aa has some good suggestions, but imo he's working backwards, trying (not) to gimp a Wiz to shoehorn in the other classes/requirements. I think I can suggest something better, depending on your preferences (and esp re the "melee" request)...

I will get right to the point, I just want the Wizard PL...

What I want:

- Trapping skills (can't resist that +30% xp goodness)
- Self Healing \ Self Sufficient
- Evasion
- Melee play style preferred, but not mandatory, Using Wizzy more for buffing / enhancing this playstyle
- Multi classing synergies (Wizzy / Rogue seems like a natural fit, just not sure about the third class, considering Warlock)

I marked a Template recommended by Ungbongwah (about 15 months ago)...

I think one of the stronger HTR templates these days is bard 3+ for Swashbuckler combined with either a rog splash for trap skills & Evasion (since Swashie restricts you to lt armor anyway) or ftr splash for extra feats, defensive stance, as well as Kensei and (if going S&B) Vanguard bonuses. Beyond that, it depends on how many levels you want in your TR class vs higher-lvl bard / rog or ftr abilities.

He posted the Bard/Fighter version just below that comment, but the Bard/Rogue version is pretty rubberstamp to change to.

The build below leaves only 1-2 Feats* and 22 AP (highlighted in red, below) for the HTR class, but the idea of a TR Template is that the Template Classes can carry anything else to Level 20 (with the remaining TR Classes adding whatever gravy they can to the mix.)

(* Emp Healing (taken at Lvl 6) and Quicken (taken at Lvl 18) work for both Bard and FS spells, so hard to tell how core they are to the Bard part of the Template, as that'd be the only source of Healing in the Template if not for FS. Fortunately for the OP here, Quicken also works for both Bard & WIz, but ymmv on the other.)

So here's a sample build which I've considered using as a TR template: bard 5 / ftr 3 / <HPL class> 12, in this case FvS.

Vulkooreer
5/3/(12) Bard/Fighter/(Favored Soul), Epic 1
True Neutral Drow


Level Order

1. Bard            6. Favored Soul   11. Fighter        16. Favored Soul
2. Bard            7. Favored Soul   12. Bard           17. Favored Soul
3. Bard            8. Favored Soul   13. Fighter        18. Favored Soul
4. Fighter         9. Bard           14. Favored Soul   19. Favored Soul
5. Favored Soul   10. Favored Soul   15. Favored Soul   20. Favored Soul


Stats
               28pt     30pt     32pt     Tome     Level Up
               ----     ----     ----     ----     --------
Strength        16       16       16                4: STR
Dexterity       12       12       12       +1       8: STR
Constitution    12       12       14               12: STR
Intelligence    10       12       10               16: STR
Wisdom           8        8        8               20: STR
Charisma        18       18       18               


Feats

 1        : Single Weapon Fighting
 3        : Shield Mastery
 4 Fighter: Precision
 5 Deity  : Follower of: Vulkoor
 6        : Empower Healing Spell
 7 Deity  : Child of: Vulkoor
 9        : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
10 FavSoul: Energy Resistance: Electricity
11 Fighter: Improved Critical: Piercing
12        : Improved Shield Mastery
14 Deity  : Vulkoor's Avatar
15        : Greater Single Weapon Fighting
18        : Quicken Spell
18 FavSoul: Energy Resistance: Fire
20 Deity  : Beloved of: Vulkoor
21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical


Enhancements (80 AP)

Swashbuckler (35 AP)

Confidence, Swashbuckling
On Your Toes I, Blow By Blow: Melee III
Deflect Arrows, Fast Movement, Sword Dance III
Elegant Footwork, Skirmisher, Resonant Arms III
Low Blow, Battering Barrage II
Thread the Needle, Exploit Weakness, Coup de Grace: Melee

Warchanter (6 AP)

Skaldic: Constitution, Weapon Training
Poetic Edda II, Enchant Weapon

Warpriest (22 AP)

Smite Foe, Resilience of Battle, Sanctuary
Divine Might III, Righteous Weapons
Smite Weakness, Wall of Steel III, Righteous Weapons, Inflame III
Inflame: Energy Absorption II
Ameliorating Strike

Kensei (4 AP)

Kensei Focus: Light Blades
Haste Boost III

Stalwart Defender (13 AP)

Toughness, Stalwart Defense
Item Defense I, Resilient Defense III
Durable Defense III, Instinctive Defense I
Tenacious Defense III

Bard 5 provides most of the melee DPS bonuses from Swashbuckler and a bit of Warchanter. Ftr 3 provides two extra feats, defensive stance, and whatever APs you can spare for Kensei and/or Vanguard. FvS is the HTR class; 22 APs in Warpriest for Ameliorating Strike, Enflame, Div Might, and Righteous Weapons (uses short swords); FvS 12 gets you Heal spell and +2 dmg from Beloved of Vulkoor. I only planned it to lvl 21 since it's an HTR-only template.

( OP https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5634793 )

Now, one glaring fault in the above as-is is the lack of synergy that you asked for (only Int 10, as shown), BUT, as a TR template, 1) synergy w/ the HTR class is not overly necessary (the idea being that the "template" classes carry the rest), PLUS 2) the 18 pts in Charisma (the FS synergy) appears not to be necessary for the Template classes, and so is transferable to other stats - I'm not seeing any non-FS Enhancements/Feats that rely on that Cha*, altho' Bard spells want an adjusted Cha 12(+).

(* Swashbuckler's "Smooth Flourishes" was not included for +Cha damage - I'd have to stare long at the balance to see if those could be stolen from something else - not today, sorry.)

Lastly, I'll toss out that for a Bard/Rog Template w/ Wiz TR, I'd think an Int-based version might easily benefit from Harper Tree, altho' there may not be room/need. I'd have to build one and compare/contrast - again, I'll pass atm, thx.

Edit - @ Ungbongwah (if/when you read this) - could you, please, comment on several things that I'm only assuming or confused about -

1) I see no Bard Enhancements that rely on Cha - can most of that be shifted to wherever is needed for the PL Class, or does the Bard want Cha 18 for Songs/Casting/etc? Would a starting Cha 12 suffice (allowing Int 16)? (Let's ignore Tomes for purposes of this Q, altho' they obviously can solve several problems along these lines.)

2) Whether the Empower Healing (and Quicken) are part of the Template, or one/both could be dedicated to the HTR Class? (I'm guessing at least the first is important for Bard Healing?)

3) The Leveling order for the Classes - a few core Template Levels, then -> Favored Soul 4 for Lvl 2 spells (I'm guessing) - but then why FS 5 @ Lvl 10 before finishing off the core template classes? I'm sure the "Template" is flexible re current PL Class, but I'm not seeing anything urgent that FS 5 brings to the table (except a second Lvl 2 spell & a +10 (specific) Energy Resistance?).

4) With a Wiz PL (and without crunching any numbers), I'd think an Int/Harper version would work - yeah?

[sk3l3t0r]

Thanks guys, great start and opened my eyes to a few possibilities!

[ValariusK]

I did a wizard life on a deep gnome where I went 12 wizard 4 ranger 4 artificer, and mostly did the repeating crossbow thing with a light repeater and elemental arrows. That worked pretty well. Harper was my T5 in that build and I had elemental arrows to T4.

[Ghwyn]

Warforged, 11 wiz, 3 rogue, 6 fighter.

[Uska]

I did a wizard life on a deep gnome where I went 12 wizard 4 ranger 4 artificer, and mostly did the repeating crossbow thing with a light repeater and elemental arrows. That worked pretty well. Harper was my T5 in that build and I had elemental arrows to T4.

yah but you have to go to 30 on a deep gnome

[ValariusK]

yah but you have to go to 30 on a deep gnome

Yes but you get a deep gnome iconic life and a wizard life both out of it.

[Uska]

Yes but you get a deep gnome iconic life and a wizard life both out of it.

good for those who enjoy epic to be sure.

But he said he wanted the wizard PL and fast going to 30 may not be the fastest at least not for me I can go from 1-20 faster than I can from 15-30 plus I can do it easily solo if I have to

[Tashr]

Have you considered a Wiz/Rog/Monk? The wizard brings some buffs and treats like dimension door. Rogue obviously gives you trapping skills & UMD for scroll healing and buffs, Monk can give you Shadow Veil as well as the pos/pos/pos area heal. You have evasion. Many of my past lives are based on a monk/rogue base.

If you want a Deep Gnome past life you'll obviously start with wizard, but otherwise take first level rogue, then 6 monk to get Shadow Veil as soon as you can, then rogue for a level or 2 to catch up with rogue skills. From then on intersperse rogue as needed with the wizard levels to keep your trapping skills up. If you are running an iconic take the last level or 2 as rogue so you can max out the rogue skills for epic levels. If you are just going to 20 it doesn't matter so much.

These 8/6/6 type x-for-past-life/6 Monk/6 Rogue builds work quite well up through Epic Hard. Epic Elite can be done, but will be much slower and you may not be able to get the traps with out good insightful gear.

[Jetrule]

Warforged fencer.

I would suggest avoiding a split that will take a while to come into its own. Int based rogue 2, bard 4 wizard 14. Leveling order; level 1 rogue 2-5 bard 6 rogue 7-20 wizard. Swashbucling single weapon fighting easy to over come spell failure and Int to hit and damage. Forged immunities and wizard extended buffs and self healing.It might be a good candidate to go tier 5 in battle mage for the arcane cleave attack or tier 5 harper scout.. when doing a heroic only life I like to be effective early and this would be swashbuckling by level 4. Another solid option with early character power would be Arti 4 ranger 6 wizard 10 warforged reapeater gunner. racing to strategic combat 2 and then the 3rd deep wood stalker core then filling in battle engineer and arcane archer. Using aa elemental or force imbues and eventually swaping between a heavy repeater and a long bow for manyshot and fusillade.

[sk3l3t0r]

Looping back to this thread after my TR (TR'ed on September 16th, 10 days ago)..so I decided to go 12 Wiz / 8 Rog, currently sitting at level 15 (10 Wiz / 5 Rog) and looking at starting eveningstar level 15s, LoD chain, Wheloon, Druid's chain, etc ... and thinking to myself, this is going to be rough.

Leveling was a breeze up until Lordsmarch / GH, then I started to see the weakness in this build. I went INT based Rogue using this build as a starting point which I ran for my Rogue PL a while back:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...nt-based-build

TWF with dual Lit II khopesh is not as strong a I expected it to be on this build. Before I was able to use GS weapons, I would just use whatever I Looted as weapons (kukris and daggers), i didn't matter everything just died really fast... Drop a few firewalls, displace, blur, haste and just hack and slash...works great up until about level 10, not so much after that.

Other gear I am using is Torc, Level 12 Bracers of Wind, GS HP item (belt), Empowered dragonscale, +11 sheltering / spellsight boots, Robe of Arcana puissance (slotted with Heavy Fort), Ring with +6 DEX / CON,

Starting stats, all level ups in INT.

STR 8
DEX 15
CON 16
INT 18
WIS 10
CHA 8

My biggest weakness is caster mobs, I get held, commanded, and basically stopped dead in my tracks unless I take them out first, even with TWF Lit II Khopesh my melee daaage is lackluster, spell damage is not that hot either since I took Maximise meta only as a Wizard only feat.

I should mention I easily solo'ed the first 7 levels, started PUGing around level 7 (Necro I and 3BC) irregularly, now I only PUG because the build is really weak, assassinate DC is not what I expected it to be with only 5 Rogue levels in Lordsmarch / GH content. I ran through my first GH saga focused as an assassin, I am now running my second GH saga focused as a PM...night and day difference!! The good aspects of the build are the PM enhancements. I switched out of Assassin / Harper tree enhancements into PM when I hit 15 for more survivability and the spell buffs like DDoor, Haste, Displacement, etc ... allow me to be more effective in a support role for the party. I haven't tried the DC casting thing yet, but will be trying that out soon!!

I also have awesome trapping skills, so that helps with leveling thanks to +30% XP. But is not really that relevant anymore at this level since many players I run with also have trapping OR I get into the occasional PUG that people just zerg to the end in order to run more quests as fast as possible, slowing down for traps is pointless because by the time I disable enough traps to get to +10% or maybe +20% the party is way ahead of me and finishing the quest, so I am not even getting the +30% most of the time anyways in those groups...

I am thinking at this point to do a +5 heart (one of the free ones I received a while back) and go full PM and just remove the Rogue levels now that I am getting close to 20 and Epics and just go straight to 30 as a Pure PM using the build below. It would give me my Wizard PL + capstone and Heroic Completionist, and I could do my last 2 Epic PLs in Arcane sphere for Epic Completionist. It's not quite what I had in mind, but would allow me to get both Heroic and Epic Completionist on this life

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...e-Master-Guide

At first I didn't think I would like running a PM, but after some experimenting on the weekend with the PM tree enhancements I discovered that the playstyle is really interesting and gives me a different perspective on a caster build. I've never played a DC based caster before, I was more of a nuker. I was also able to solo content a bit easier as a PM compared to going full ****** assassin / harper to beef up my assassinate / crits and doublestrike.

The build I had in mind would still be fun to play but I would need to take a few melee levels to be more effective in the teen Heroic levels. I might comeback to that idea next life and use the knowledge I gained to tweak the build more.

[Wh070aa]

My biggest weakness is caster mobs, I get held, commanded, and basically stopped dead

Undead form man. Undead form. Points are tight, but it gives you immunity to most stuff(there are seriously lots of immunities you get from being undead, check the wiki for list,most prominent being negative energy, and poison damage immunity in most cases(some dragons have weird acid poison things)). Also commanded? PROTECTION FROM EVIL, its a level 1 spell. There is no way you can't fit it in somewhere. Also get a FOM flask, or potions, they are kinda must haves man.

Also pro tip spawn screen spell is awesome against stat damage. When you get to that point.

[sk3l3t0r]

Undead form man. Undead form. Points are tight, but it gives you immunity to most stuff(there are seriously lots of immunities you get from being undead, check the wiki for list,most prominent being negative energy, and poison damage immunity in most cases(some dragons have weird acid poison things)). Also commanded? PROTECTION FROM EVIL, its a level 1 spell. There is no way you can't fit it in somewhere. Also get a FOM flask, or potions, they are kinda must haves man.

Also pro tip spawn screen spell is awesome against stat damage. When you get to that point.

Yup, Pro. from Evil is in my regular buff bar sequence, most likely I either overlooked the timer on it, or forgot to cast it stepping into the quest. Hold person is what would really grind my gears. I completely forgot about FOM...duh!

On the undead side, I really enjoyed vampire shroud mode, the level draining and healing from neg. energy burst and aura was what really turned me on to PM playstyle. However my feats are all messed up for DC casting at this point, so I painted myself into a corner (trial and error !!)..not to mention the skeletal knight pet is pretty cool.

Right now all my points are in the PM tree after a reset (cost me about 20k Plat, no big deal when you are plat capped), and I think I have a few points in Harper for the +15 HPs (4 points if I am not mistaken).

I am seriously thinking doing a +5 LR at this point, and come back to a 2 or 3 class split in the future...something like Tempest Wizzy 12 Wiz / 6 Ranger / 2 Rogue... maybe even just do 12 / 8 and no Rogue levels. Would slow down my early Heroic leveling since I rely heavily on the trapping XP bonus, but I can mitigate that with a few XP store pots.

So far it's been a great experiment. Some of the lessons learned I will use in future, more generic template build ideas using Wizzy levels for supporting my TR template class.

[Wh070aa]

I recommend getting rogue levels for evasion (recourse ranger gets evasion at level 9), since levels 7 and 8 are not that great for ranger.

Also there is the Harper Pin clicky thing that removes all CC. the cooldown is really long, but it helps if you get CC'd a lot, especially against medusa and stuff that turn you to stone.

Also if you want to do DC casting, I recommend you go up to 20, TR, and restart on plain wizard (or wizard 18/2 rogue, or whatever you prefer) and redo it with the wizard past life feat. It makes all the difference. Seriously. Especially on shiradi, with lantern ring. (dunno if you would shiradi on melee tho). Rainbow:is bugged and broken right now so it might be way worse than I remember.

[C-Dog]

...so I decided to go 12 Wiz / 8 Rog, currently sitting at level 15 (10 Wiz / 5 Rog) ... this is going to be rough.

...I went INT based Rogue using this build as a starting point which I ran for my Rogue PL a while back:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...nt-based-build

TWF with dual Lit II khopesh is not as strong a I expected it to be on this build....

But (sounds like) you didn't "build" that build... (which was originally supposed to be "a Wizard build that doesn't really do Wizard stuff")...

... I switched out of Assassin / Harper tree enhancements into PM when I hit 15 for more survivability and the spell buffs like DDoor, Haste, Displacement, etc ...

... you hit a problem b/c you stopped trying to run that assassin and now you're trying to run a gimped wizard.

To be a "valid TR Template" build, the 1-class template MUST be able to support 11(+)* "useless" (or nearly useless) class levels from the other class with the 9* (or less) classes it has in the build, on their own. The other class can certainly be gravy to improve QoL, but cannot be really "necessary" to the build.

(* A multi-class Template, w/ 2 classes supporting a variable 3rd, could only need to support as few as 7-8 levels in the TR class, depending on the exact build (7/6/X or 6/6/X))

On this, sounds like you took some key Enhancements from your Assassin build and tried to boost an under-level Wiz - and, not surprisingly, yeah, you've found that isn't strong, especially after the additional Sneak Attack and Rogue special Abilities are subtracted.

...At first I didn't think I would like running a PM, but after some experimenting on the weekend with the PM tree enhancements I discovered that the playstyle is really interesting and gives me a different perspective on a caster build...

If so, then, yeah, TR to full Wiz (or 18/2 PM Trapper?) sounds like your best bet.

So far it's been a great experiment. Some of the lessons learned I will use in future, more generic template build ideas using Wizzy levels for supporting my TR template class.

Just like any other build, a TR Template build needs to be planned out, and (unless you're sure, or just enjoy TR'ing) posted for comments before you try it out - flaws that are obvious to the community may not be to the designer.

Good luck!

[sk3l3t0r]

I recommend getting rogue levels for evasion (recourse ranger gets evasion at level 9), since levels 7 and 8 are not that great for ranger.

Also there is the Harper Pin clicky thing that removes all CC. the cooldown is really long, but it helps if you get CC'd a lot, especially against medusa and stuff that turn you to stone.

Also if you want to do DC casting, I recommend you go up to 20, TR, and restart on plain wizard (or wizard 18/2 rogue, or whatever you prefer) and redo it with the wizard past life feat. It makes all the difference. Seriously. Especially on shiradi, with lantern ring. (dunno if you would shiradi on melee tho). Rainbow:is bugged and broken right now so it might be way worse than I remember.

Ya I have both Harper pins in my TR cache, should pull them out...another brain fart there, that's another one I completely forgot about. The last 2 lives (Cleric and FvS) were zerg to 20 and TR with very little thought put into them (I went 8 divine / 6 Fighter / 6 Rogue, THF great axe swinger...AGA / Carnifex to 12, then GS Lit II great axe to 20). Points in warpriest for Ameliorating strike, and lots of HAMP (human enhancement tree and gear), both STR builds. So I am still in that mode of play...

I am getting the feeling this build could have been thought out a bit more instead of jump in the deep end and sink or swim...mind you it's been a great learning experience this life on how NOT to build a toon.

I can see why people tend to give up once the build hits the wall and becomes tedious to level. Thankfully I am halfway through 15 and can get to 20 easily running a solo HARD streak + sagas if I wanted to go that route. Or continue on my current path and just EBB to 20 while PUGing hitting up every single quest I haven't done yet when I see and LFM for it and just play a support toon and let the zergers run the show.

[sk3l3t0r]

But (sounds like) you didn't "build" that build... (which was originally supposed to be "a Wizard build that doesn't really do Wizard stuff")...



... you hit a problem b/c you stopped trying to run that assassin and now you're trying to run a gimped wizard.

To be a "valid TR Template" build, the 1-class template MUST be able to support 11(+)* "useless" (or nearly useless) class levels from the other class with the 9* (or less) classes it has in the build, on their own. The other class can certainly be gravy to improve QoL, but cannot be really "necessary" to the build.

(* A multi-class Template, w/ 2 classes supporting a variable 3rd, could only need to support as few as 7-8 levels in the TR class, depending on the exact build (7/6/X or 6/6/X))

On this, sounds like you took some key Enhancements from your Assassin build and tried to boost an under-level Wiz - and, not surprisingly, yeah, you've found that isn't strong, especially after the additional Sneak Attack and Rogue special Abilities are subtracted.



If so, then, yeah, TR to full Wiz (or 18/2 PM Trapper?) sounds like your best bet.



Just like any other build, a TR Template build needs to be planned out, and (unless you're sure, or just enjoy TR'ing) posted for comments before you try it out - flaws that are obvious to the community may not be to the designer.

Good luck!

100% agree and seeing that now in my failed experiment ! Nonetheless I still think I can recover from it, will be a bit painful, but I can get through it to at least 20, save my +5 heart and most likely do HARD streak + sagas. I could EBB in PUGs and just play a support class as well...just join a bunch of Warlocks...lol

[C-Dog]

100% agree and seeing that now in my failed experiment ! Nonetheless I still think I can recover from it, will be a bit painful, but I can get through it to at least 20, save my +5 heart and most likely do HARD streak + sagas. I could EBB in PUGs and just play a support class as well...just join a bunch of Warlocks...lol

LOL - piking for fun and profit!

Yeah, trying and failing is a time-honoured learning technique, we all do it.

You could also (before or at the same time) post a new thread (w diff subject line) targeted at saving/improving a Rog 5/Wiz 10, as a TR Template or no. Diff title (and maybe "custom builds" subforum) might attract new insights from a diff mix of posters.

[sk3l3t0r]

Update: Just took 18 last night thanks to PUGing (2 weeks in today), sitting at 10 Wizard / 8 Rogue until Level 20 XP Cap, last two levels will be Wizard. I should be able to hit 20 with what's left. I can run Mirror on Hard and Normal once each for extra XP if I am a little short, or maybe run the e-star challenges.

Content Remaining on Elite BB

Vale: Not started (Shroud Flagging quests only)

IQ: Finding the path and Shipwrecked Spy left

Reaver's Reach: Monastery of the Scorpion and Prey the Hunter left

Twelve: Not started (reign of Madness chain)

Content chains remaining on Elite BB: (E-star True Elite Sagas)

Wheloon: Through a mirror darkly left

Druid's: Outbreak and Overgrowth left

High Road: Completed

Storm Horns: Not Started

And I have the 2 level 19 quests I need to do to complete the sagas. The Riddle and Murder by Night. This will be 185K XP + 5% ship + 5% Master's Gift.