Warlock Balancing

[jakeelala]

You are crazy...

Reported for harassing and insulting me. I am decidedly not crazy. It does not make me crazy if I disagree with you.

[TBot1234]

My experience indicates that most people will respect a "No zerging" or a "No power gamers" label if you post it on the LFM. For the people that don't respect it, there's the ignore list and class exclusion options in the LFM window. Last but not least, as you stated, this is not just a solo game, so get to know other players on your server and make friends or even join a guild with the like-minded ones.

It's pretty easy to tailor your DDO experience to your liking if you try, regardless of which class or build is the current flavor of the moment.

I have NEVER seen a "No power gamers" LFM posted on my server. [Watch someone go create one and screenshot it now ]

Exploits, cheats, bugs, incredibly OP builds do affect my fun too.

And I feel bad if I find myself in a situation where I am making others feel like pikers too. Sometimes I even hold back accordingly.

[011775715]

warlocks are over power! they NEED to be nerf! asap!

[Requiro]

I love situations when people when disagree with other, find some word (overreact about it) and reported it.

It's only show lack of arguments from that people.

Reported for harassing and insulting me. I am decidedly not crazy. It does not make me crazy if I disagree with you.

You must be proud that you report so rude and uncivil guy...

warlocks are over power! they NEED to be nerf! asap!

And Doooooooommmmm1m1m11!!!!

[Aelonwy]

Reported for harassing and insulting me. I am decidedly not crazy. It does not make me crazy if I disagree with you.

I don't believe he meant that insultingly, necessarily. That is a common figure of speech used as an interjection to express surprise, disbelief, incomprehension, etc.

[JOTMON]

I love situations when people when disagree with other, find some word (overreact about it) and reported it.

It's only show lack of arguments from that people.



You must be proud that you report so rude and uncivil guy...

I suspect its just entertainment value..
or..

~snip~
Am I taking crazy pills?

he(she) does play halflings.. by choice...

[NaturalHazard]

I don't believe he meant that insultingly, necessarily. That is a common figure of speech used as an interjection to express surprise, disbelief, incomprehension, etc.

the gods must be crazy, glass coke bottles are awesome!!!

[Thrudh]

Reported for harassing and insulting me. I am decidedly not crazy. It does not make me crazy if I disagree with you.

Edited. My apologies for hurting your feelings.

[ForumFrenzy]

I think it is time we implement a new rule - permanent banning for players that recommend nerfing.

[Paleus]

I suspect its just entertainment value..
or..

he(she) does play halflings.. by choice...

Also no faster way to derail a thread than start saying "reported" and kick off a flame-off about something (that hilariously they themselves appear to have said about themselves). If you gotta report a post, there's no need to then post about it. If you want the person to know, you could just PM them or wait for the infraction to be enacted (assuming something actually warranted an infraction). Anything else is just to draw everyone else into the drama and off the topic of the thread itself.

[sithhound]

I think they should nerf warlocks. Make them as useless as monks, artificers, fvs, and non-exploit druids. Then fix the druid exploits. That way all premium classes are equally useless, and no one ever feels tempted to waste real money on a game.

/sarcasm off

Nerfs suck. They only irritate the people that they affect, and the whiner brigade just finds something else to cry about. And for the record, I do not play warlocks.

[sithhound]

Also no faster way to derail a thread than start saying "reported" and kick off a flame-off about something (that hilariously they themselves appear to have said about themselves). If you gotta report a post, there's no need to then post about it. If you want the person to know, you could just PM them or wait for the infraction to be enacted (assuming something actually warranted an infraction). Anything else is just to draw everyone else into the drama and off the topic of the thread itself.

How well did things turn out for Roderic Nettle? Just saying.
(not directed to you Paleus, but to the subject you were addressing.)

[hawkboy0]

I've been watching this thread for a few days and as I run a warlock, two actually, and as of yet I still don't really understand the issue. What about the Warlock class ruins this game for people? I am not trying to start a fight or being a troll or anything like that. I am just curious. I keep seeing people calling for nerfs to the class saying it is overpowered and such but how does this affect others in this game?? I am very lucky to have a friend in game that is really good at making great builds. Several in our guild run Warlocks and everyone enjoys the class greatly. So again I ask, what exactly is the issue?

Again, not looking for a fight, just honestly confused as to why all the warlock hate right now

[Lallajulia]

i enjoyed all my warlock lives. it is class what possible many variations and be very strong.
i do not want they make it weak, but adjustment is needed.
right now warlock power is out of any control.

i was thinking about class and what could be done.

first, add minimal sp cost to eldrich/pact blasts. so sp depletes on small scale but constantly, even 1 sp per "blast" would give some balance. other thing - double sp cost for normal spells AND double spell timeout, so warlocks are forced to deplete sp pool in any case or stop dps.
warlock is caster class, so make them use sp pool and that way balance them with other casters.

other thing. these temporary hp shields. id tied them to sp pool. if warlock wants 50% hp added, it would instantly cost same percentage of spell points. you would not see running around warlocks with insane hp all the time anymore.

now blast dps itself. it is too high. really too high. it decimates huge groups in large areas at safe distance WITHOUT using sp. there is nothing normal in that situation.

a. add sp cost to blasts;
b. double sp cost to spells and double timeout;
c. hp shields use proportional percent of sp pool instantly. want 50% hp shield? lose 50% of sp. choice is yours.
d. reduce blast damage and reduce aoe blast area;

pff, phh, pff, phh

[sithhound]

i enjoyed all my warlock lives. it is class what possible many variations and be very strong.
i do not want they make it weak, but adjustment is needed.
right now warlock power is out of any control.

i was thinking about class and what could be done.

first, add minimal sp cost to eldrich/pact blasts. so sp depletes on small scale but constantly, even 1 sp per "blast" would give some balance. other thing - double sp cost for normal spells AND double spell timeout, so warlocks are forced to deplete sp pool in any case or stop dps.
warlock is caster class, so make them use sp pool and that way balance them with other casters.

other thing. these temporary hp shields. id tied them to sp pool. if warlock wants 50% hp added, it would instantly cost same percentage of spell points. you would not see running around warlocks with insane hp all the time anymore.

now blast dps itself. it is too high. really too high. it decimates huge groups in large areas at safe distance WITHOUT using sp. there is nothing normal in that situation.

a. add sp cost to blasts;
b. double sp cost to spells and double timeout;
c. hp shields use proportional percent of sp pool instantly. want 50% hp shield? lose 50% of sp. choice is yours.
d. reduce blast damage and reduce aoe blast area;

pff, phh, pff, phh

Sounds like bad ideas all around. Why'd they even waste the dev hours developing the class, if they're just gonna nerf hammer it into oblivion?

[slarden]

I've been watching this thread for a few days and as I run a warlock, two actually, and as of yet I still don't really understand the issue. What about the Warlock class ruins this game for people? I am not trying to start a fight or being a troll or anything like that. I am just curious. I keep seeing people calling for nerfs to the class saying it is overpowered and such but how does this affect others in this game?? I am very lucky to have a friend in game that is really good at making great builds. Several in our guild run Warlocks and everyone enjoys the class greatly. So again I ask, what exactly is the issue?

Again, not looking for a fight, just honestly confused as to why all the warlock hate right now

It's interesting because trees, wolfs, throwers and sorc/wizard shiradis are all higher on the pecking order at the moment and the first 3 of those make heavy heavy use of favorable bugs. There are quite a few builds that are in the same ballpark as warlock, but I knew this was coming. It will clearly make more people unhappy than happy, but that itself makes reading the forums more interesting for a bit.

The power gamers have always hated builds that are easy to understand and easy to play because too many people can run higher difficulties and they prefer it to be an elite club for people that know about secret bugs. So it's been a punching bag since before it went live.

There is a problem with Warlock and that is that there is too little dps at stake by completely dumping charisma - about 13% total. This allows people to become immune to death with super high hp and ppr and the dps loss isn't so bad considering you can't be killed.

I don't have a huge degree of confidence the nerf will be right. They should lower the dps of dc-dumping warlock because that is where all the survivability comes from - not nearly as much comes from the warlock trees. Instead they will nerf the warlock tree a bit which will hardly make a dent in dc-dumping warlocks but will make dc-based warlocks more squishy. Ironically that will just push more people to dump dc lol.

Whatever they do at least it makes for an interesting project to make the best of it. The last nerf was more annoying because they nerfed dps when dps was only an issue at heroic levels.

I would prefer the nerf to create a trade-off between dps and survivability. Instead they are looking at warlocks that dump char and max con, go into unyielding sentinel and use shields and declaring warlocks are too survivable. Nerfing a little from warlock tree won't eliminate that easy button because the problem is the split between eld blast subject to save vs not subject to save and NOT the warlock tree itself.

Making the warlock feats 3d4 pact damage instead of 2d6 base damage and making the 6d6 light damage subject to a will save solves that problem more than a straight-up nerf. It generates more of a trade-off between dps and defenses.

[ThomasHunter]

This talk of Warlock balancing is making me sad. The class is definitely one of the most fun. I've made many different kinds and keep trying new builds.

I implore you, please do not tinker!

[Duetotheseverity]

Yeah bursts should cost sp, i hope they fix it too.

[Theolin]

I do believe I am thoroughly disgusted by all the talk of nerf, esp when it is always warlocks, there are so many, way more powerful builds out there that have real issues that should be solved.

& when they nerf them again, I will just go and play a different toon ... Oh, wait, I have already moved on, as warlocks are very subpar dps for end game.

[Soleran100]

i enjoyed all my warlock lives. it is class what possible many variations and be very strong.
i do not want they make it weak, but adjustment is needed.
right now warlock power is out of any control.

i was thinking about class and what could be done.

first, add minimal sp cost to eldrich/pact blasts. so sp depletes on small scale but constantly, even 1 sp per "blast" would give some balance. other thing - double sp cost for normal spells AND double spell timeout, so warlocks are forced to deplete sp pool in any case or stop dps.
warlock is caster class, so make them use sp pool and that way balance them with other casters.

other thing. these temporary hp shields. id tied them to sp pool. if warlock wants 50% hp added, it would instantly cost same percentage of spell points. you would not see running around warlocks with insane hp all the time anymore.

now blast dps itself. it is too high. really too high. it decimates huge groups in large areas at safe distance WITHOUT using sp. there is nothing normal in that situation.

a. add sp cost to blasts;
b. double sp cost to spells and double timeout;
c. hp shields use proportional percent of sp pool instantly. want 50% hp shield? lose 50% of sp. choice is yours.
d. reduce blast damage and reduce aoe blast area;

pff, phh, pff, phh

These are terrible ideas and I'll explain why briefly.

When you go into epics the higher dps abilities such as hellball, ruin, gruin, arcane pulse, energy burst are very important to overall dps. Warlocks are a low sp class and would be double penalized by this type of nerf.

Shiradi builds (wiz/sorc,) wolf builds, throwers dare I say even mechanic rogues do better then warlocks in top content.