An acceptable nerf?

[Requiro]

Perhaps it wouldn't be too controversial (ha!) to suggest that quite a lot of more experienced players find the game still very engaging, but tending towards being too easy.

One small suggestion for reducing power in a very modest way...

Time to withdraw the 'old' ship buffs. You know, those ones in the cargo hold that only last an hour, go away on death, and in particular allow high resists against elements.

An acceptable nerf? Sure

Let the old ship buff (maybe the new one also…) scale with character level, like normal spells.
That was a problem when Guild Ship and elemental resist buff was introduced, but Devs won't believe us, that this destroy low level quest.

Other than that I'm not signed.

[Baktiotha]

I remember the days prior where Acid Arrow and Lightning bolts were scary in the lower levels.

The store bought (in game from the vendors) potions were sufficient to deal with those problems.

I don't necessarily agree with OP but I also don't bother with old style amenities on my ship. I honestly have no idea how many people would be affected.

IMO it is pretty much moot since there has always been an alternative. Players can use potions, wands, spells (scrolled or cast by self/other), house buffs -- these all provide an effective way to deal with most of the lower level problems.

At higher levels gear is so prevalent that it is hard to get caught unprepared.

I think in the old days those things were scary the first time and then we went looking to see what could mitigate the challenge. Simple answer was a bit of plat and a trip to the potion vendor. Somehow the nostalgia seeps in and colors things. It really was never that much of an issue unless you didn't know the potion vendor existed.

[cdbd3rd]

...

Those of you who don't like the Cargo Hold Resists DON'T USE THEM!...

Win. ^^

[changelingamuck]

They were supposed to go away "soon" after all. Old ship buffs and the guild augment vendors should both finally get the axe.

Agreed on both counts. They're both inferior versions of newer systems and should be laid to rest.

[Enoach]

The store bought (in game from the vendors) potions were sufficient to deal with those problems.

I don't necessarily agree with OP but I also don't bother with old style amenities on my ship. I honestly have no idea how many people would be affected.

IMO it is pretty much moot since there has always been an alternative. Players can use potions, wands, spells (scrolled or cast by self/other), house buffs -- these all provide an effective way to deal with most of the lower level problems.

At higher levels gear is so prevalent that it is hard to get caught unprepared.

I think in the old days those things were scary the first time and then we went looking to see what could mitigate the challenge. Simple answer was a bit of plat and a trip to the potion vendor. Somehow the nostalgia seeps in and colors things. It really was never that much of an issue unless you didn't know the potion vendor existed.

Or didn't have the gold to pay for such potion. Keep in mind back before people were flush with gold, resources like these were either found by breaking barrels, chests or turn in for collectables.

Many times we did resolve these issues by the following...

• Used the Resist Elemental Spell Buff - Usually only one resist was ever needed
• Used the Protection Spell Buff - Similar to resist
• Found/Traded/Bought potion/scroll/wand of resist/protection
• Bought Gear - Cloak was prevalent of Resist (At one point I had a cloak for each resist and would simply switch cloaks)
• House P favor - Bought 30 minutes of the needed resist - Similar to Ship Buffs, 20 Resist. I remember grabbing this just before a Tempest Spine Run.

Prior to Level 7 a 30 resist is enough to eliminate any energy damage be it from a caster or trap. However, at that level 10 resist is enough that it remove annoying dots like acid arrow or even burning blood from being an issue, while also taking the sting out of lightning bolts and fireballs, you still feel it on a missed save. 30 resist removes these as on a failed save. This gives guilded players a huge advantage between 1 and 7 over non-guilded.

I see the removal of the 30 resist buffs as a potential return to party members needing to use buff spells, to me a return to that is a good thing.

[Coyopa]

I see the removal of the 30 resist buffs as a potential return to party members needing to use buff spells, to me a return to that is a good thing.

There's a potential for this, but I don't think it would actually happen. The people who are dependent upon those resists would return to relying on party members when they can; the rest of the time, they'd either work around getting killed or figure out how to not get killed. Most vets aren't dependent on those resists at low levels, anyway, and have already figured out how to not get killed most of the time, work around getting killed when it happens, and would not return to relying on those resists. I'm completely fine if they end the cargo hold buffs - provided they give me time to empty the guild chests that I have down there.

[Ellihor]

No. That change would affect the newbies mostly, and the superTRed/geared vets less. We need a past life nerf and gear nerf. I have proposed somewhere to make the passive EPL stack up to only 3 each sphere, and to change the actives so that you can have only 1 (instead of 1 active for each sphere).

[Enoach]

There's a potential for this, but I don't think it would actually happen. The people who are dependent upon those resists would return to relying on party members when they can; the rest of the time, they'd either work around getting killed or figure out how to not get killed. Most vets aren't dependent on those resists at low levels, anyway, and have already figured out how to not get killed most of the time, work around getting killed when it happens, and would not return to relying on those resists. I'm completely fine if they end the cargo hold buffs - provided they give me time to empty the guild chests that I have down there.

I think my point is getting lost. Between levels 1 and 7 - 30 Resist is way more than what is needed. In 90% of the cases 10 Resist is enough to mitigate the majority of the damage. This is just one of the reasons the Elite Completion entitlement for ALL is prevalent (there are many other reasons, but this is a contributor)

Vets and long time players have enough absorption now that is why resists are not a big deal. Ship buff absorption + Past Life absorption + plat for supplementing = 30 resist for 60 minutes is no big deal.

[SpiritofAlba]

Thanks for all the opinions. Some of them even agreed with me :-)

I only presented this as a minor power reduction and tidy up - not suggesting the old buffs are currently a major problem, or that the change would somehow solve all issues of balance and power. And of course there are countless ways to make the game voluntarily harder, but if you are a casual pugger like me, its not appealing to nerf oneself simply so others can be relatively more OP - its a bit more challenge for the party as a whole that is needed.

No nerf is perfect. I think this one would not affect newbies disproportionately, as (by comments above) they are less likely to know / access these buffs. I agree that the buffs are irrelevant for high levels, where better gear overrides, but then I think heroic levels are where there is a more acute problem with content being too easy, and hence that is a good place to focus a nerf. I also agree that there are various other ways of getting elemental resist in heroic levels, but (as said above) a bit more use of mutual party buffing, or careful use of potions, or a bit more care with traps, is no bad thing.

One comment suggested that some newer heroic quests would be v. difficult without such buffs - I think the quests referred are posssible without evasion or warlock, but if some newer quests are tougher, that is also kind of the point. Some people don't use these buffs, so would not miss them, but that is going to be true of all but the most sweeping nerfs, which would get too much push back. Finally, its worth mentioning that there are old crew buffs that also give minor but relevant extra power, aside from the elemental resists.

However, I totally agree that the bar, bank, AH, dummy, device station and non-buffing facilities in the cargo hold are really handy - so I'd give them a reprieve.

[SirValentine]

They're both inferior versions of newer systems and should be laid to rest.

Cargo Hold is still superior. Not the buffs, the convenience. Planescaller, Navigator, Bank, Auction House, shared Guild Storage, Mailbox, ALL IN ONE PLACE. The new buffs are fine, but the new ships are garbage designs. I hit the buff button once every long while, and then spend any and all the rest of my time in the Cargo Hold. It should NOT go away unless they really have something as good or better, which they currently don't.

[Mglaxix]

Cargo Hold is still superior. Not the buffs, the convenience. Planescaller, Navigator, Bank, Auction House, shared Guild Storage, Mailbox, ALL IN ONE PLACE. The new buffs are fine, but the new ships are garbage designs. I hit the buff button once every long while, and then spend any and all the rest of my time in the Cargo Hold. It should NOT go away unless they really have something as good or better, which they currently don't.

Planscaller & navigator is the captain, Bank AH Mail in one room, Guild storage across hall, Greensteel hall in center, CC Crafting next room all on first floor perhaps your guild should think about organizing your layout a bit.

Have not set foot in my cargo hold in over a year it's obsolete. I believe in U22 it was stated the cargo buffs would go away at some point but has not happened. Would much rather see it put to better use myself. New buffs, new amenities, etc....

[Coyopa]

Planscaller & navigator is the captain, Bank AH Mail in one room, Guild storage across hall, Greensteel hall in center, CC Crafting next room all on first floor perhaps your guild should think about organizing your layout a bit.

This is how I've organized our ship, mostly. I put everything on the second deck, rather than the first. The green steel crafting is on the first deck because we actually aren't using it much. However, everything else you need for buying, selling, repairing, storing, or crafting is on the second deck. We only keep guild chests, stone of change, and banker in the cargo hold now. I recently put up energy resistance shrines, but only because we have a new lowbie member. The bank is in the cargo hold to make using the stone of change more convenient, especially if you're crunching khyber or siberys dragonshards.

[SirValentine]

Planscaller & navigator is the captain, Bank AH Mail in one room, Guild storage across hall, Greensteel hall in center, CC Crafting next room all on first floor perhaps your guild should think about organizing your layout a bit.

We thought about it, and found we could have ALL IN ONE ROOM what you just described as being in a bunch of different places.

[Cantor]

Perhaps it wouldn't be too controversial (ha!) to suggest that quite a lot of more experienced players find the game still very engaging, but tending towards being too easy.

One small suggestion for reducing power in a very modest way...

Time to withdraw the 'old' ship buffs. You know, those ones in the cargo hold that only last an hour, go away on death, and in particular allow high resists against elements.

The people who stomp through content don't waste their time even getting them.

[Cantor]

handy AH/Bank/Shop arrangement that saves me having to swap out a ship room.

Only reason I go there, one room instead of 2.

[Vellrad]

There are resist 10/resist 20 low level potions at vendors (unless I'm remembering wrong), so this won't be much change, but it will at least be hillarious to read even more nerf elite threads afterwards, posted by people who never use any potions at all.