Part 3 Feedback

[slarden]

Many builds are roughly equal in power, lately. I think you grossly overestimate the power of a "broken build." Granted they have continued power creep in an upward direction, but their decision to balance upwards has been largely successful. Past lives are worth less relatively and the builds have been democratized.

However, with balancing upwards they haven't increased difficulty to provide for a real challenge. The best they can do is scale upwards a bit at the very top end. There will still be hard difficulties for other people and I like that we will run that difficulty most of the time. That is how it should be. EE should never have been epic easy.

The builds certainly don't seem equal in power to me. There is a big difference between bringing a well-built shiradi caster and an assassin into the new series. Your wizard is a solid build with past lifes, gear and game knowledge and failed. You completed with cheats on a difficulty scaled for 1 person. Assassin and Cleric would be a bit more challenging than wizard I would think although I didn't try it with those classes.

Do you have epic ring of spell storing and bauble? I am just curious if that was used in addition to the spell point potions you used to complete.

[Blastyswa]

The builds certainly don't seem equal in power to me. There is a big difference between bringing a well-built shiradi caster and an assassin into the new series. Your wizard is a solid build with past lifes, gear and game knowledge and failed. You completed with cheats on a difficulty scaled for 1 person. Assassin and Cleric would be a bit more challenging than wizard I would think although I didn't try it with those classes.

Do you have epic ring of spell storing and bauble? I am just curious if that was used in addition to the spell point potions you used to complete.

That's somewhat the issue I see as well; if they scale quests to be relatively easily completable by builds like tank warlocks (However you spin it, 5k HP is going to complete quests with less survivability issues than a 1000-1500 hp assassin.) then assassins/clerics and other typical builds will have more issues.

[Rys]

Assassin and Cleric would be a bit more challenging than wizard I would think although I didn't try it with those classes.

You would think but you didn't try.

Difficulty of the quests should be upped way more, reward or no reward. I am ok with the latter.

[slarden]

You would think but you didn't try.

That's a ridiculous statement really. I've run cleric and assassin enough to know it would be more challenging for those builds based on the types of enemies and quanities of enemies. There simply wasn't enough time for me to run all my builds through it. Once I've run a quest on any of my builds I am able to accurately assess how it will go on my other builds.

Turbine has lots of options regarding difficulty, but I don't think there is a need to make any knee-jerk reactions before U32 is released.

I am very much in favor of adding a slider for champions up to 100%. That way the devs wouldn't need to worry about build balance since difficulty is at least partially customizable and optional. Extra remnant rewards would scale with champion %.

[Rys]

That's a ridiculous statement really. I've run cleric and assassin enough to know it would be more challenging for those quests based on the types of enemies and quanities of enemies. There simply wasn't enough time for me to run all my builds through it.

Cleric didn't get the pass yet and assassin is able to do amazing stuff if played properly.

I am very much in favor of adding a slider for champions up to 100%. That way the devs wouldn't need to worry about build balance since difficulty is at least partially customizable and optional. Extra remnant rewards would scale with champion %.

This is a great idea, I'd love to see implemented if the champions would have differently coloured crowns based on their buff.

[Blastyswa]

Cleric didn't get the pass yet and assassin is able to do amazing stuff if played properly.

I have builds on both of these classes, and I agree that they certainly should be able to clear this content without issues. Clearing speed will be significantly longer than other classes though, particularly solo, because cleric's are basically Exalted Angel machines (At least mine is, I don't know any other cleric builds aside from trees), and even perfectly played assassin's can't clear 10 mobs as quickly as a warlock or a tree.

[Wizza]

I have builds on both of these classes, and I agree that they certainly should be able to clear this content without issues. Clearing speed will be significantly longer than other classes though, particularly solo, because cleric's are basically Exalted Angel machines (At least mine is, I don't know any other cleric builds aside from trees), and even perfectly played assassin's can't clear 10 mobs as quickly as a warlock or a tree.

I don't think completition time should be looked at. Yes, some classes work better in a group, and they are slower in a solo, and I think that's perfectly fine. Heck, the game even says "Solo ability: Challenging" when you make a rogue.

Clr being EA machines is another issue. It's not a revamped class so saying they can't solo new stuff is just kinda misleading.

[JOTMON]

I have builds on both of these classes, and I agree that they certainly should be able to clear this content without issues. Clearing speed will be significantly longer than other classes though, particularly solo, because cleric's are basically Exalted Angel machines (At least mine is, I don't know any other cleric builds aside from trees), and even perfectly played assassin's can't clear 10 mobs as quickly as a warlock or a tree.

Depends on the mobs.. a wizard with circle of death/wail can clear clustered mobs pretty quickly.. 10 scattered archers isn't going to do the warlock or tree any good.. and would be just fine for the assassin..
mob design, tactics and AI need just as much attention..

Clerics can do well with implosion.. but are lacking undead destruction ..
I would expect a cleric to be able to mass destroy undead with impunity.... they are supposed to be the best at dealing with undead... hopefully something that will be addressed in the cleric pass..

[slarden]

Cleric didn't get the pass yet and assassin is able to do amazing stuff if played properly.

And fortunately I know how to play assassin really really well so I am very capable of making the assessment. Assassin will have a much more difficult time in that quest than a shuri build, wizard or sorc or many other classes.

[slarden]

Cleric didn't get the pass yet and assassin is able to do amazing stuff if played properly.

And fortunately I know how to play assassin really really well so I am very capable of making the assessment. Assassin will have a much more difficult time in that quest than a shuri build, wizard or sorc or many other classes. Making enemies hit like shroud as was suggested would make it not even worth stepping in that quest on LE for an assassin.