Part 3 Feedback

[Sam-u-r-eye]

YMMV.

Right on

[IBCrabin]

Annoying is all in the perspective. Maybe some people find suulo chain annoying too. Chain is cast on anyone with agro. rager charge when person with agro is relatively far away from them. rager mechanic works a bit better to reach a happy medium for range and melee toon. Need spells and attacks tailor toward toons far away from the action than blanket cast on melee and range builds.

[Rys]

Annoying is all in the perspective. Maybe some people find suulo chain annoying too. Chain is cast on anyone with agro. rager charge when person with agro is relatively far away from them. rager mechanic works a bit better to reach a happy medium for range and melee toon. Need spells and attacks tailor toward toons far away from the action than blanket cast on melee and range builds.

What I don't like about the battle ragers is pretty much that you get KDed and you can't do anything. You can't run, you can't attack, you can't heal, you just lie there and then again and then again and you might as well not play at all and just log off lol. The chain at least offers you to take a part in the game and actually play even if with a little handicap.

[slarden]

Which means harder to complete but with less grind. As it is now, with pretty much everything in game, you run the same quest million times mindlessly to grind million mats. But sure, keep it that way on normal and hard. But offer us a possibility of insanely difficult elite which will reward you accordingly at the end for all the failed attempts if you manage to complete.

I think raids is the best place for this. This was effectively echronoscope where a failed run at the end fight wasn't too awful because you still looted all the seal chests and shards from the end chest were the easiest to get.

Again, I only mention this for quests due to the reality of server populations.

As someone who would run a new nightmare difficulty I am all for a super difficult content, but I want the rewards to be very marginal as we don't need that kind of power creep. If they want to offer some super rare cosmetics that is fine, but nothing adding to player power except maybe mythic bonuses and slightly better random loot (maybe 2 levels).

Over-rewarding elite is why everyone wants to run only that difficulty. We can't make the same mistake with a new nightmare setting.

[slarden]

Need spells and attacks tailor toward toons far away from the action than blanket cast on melee and range builds.

Totally agree

[cru121]

More ornamentation for the room we're fighting in---

But please no tapestries blocking vision, like the S&R opt room.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Over-rewarding elite is why everyone wants to run only that difficulty. We can't make the same mistake with a new nightmare setting.

I agree. The problem is that right now there IS NO nightmare setting. So anyone who is running LE shroud casually is quitting.

[Rys]

But please no tapestries blocking vision, like the S&R opt room.

Almost managed to wipe a pug run in that room XD #challenge

[IBCrabin]

What I don't like about the battle ragers is pretty much that you get KDed and you can't do anything. You can't run, you can't attack, you can't heal, you just lie there and then again and then again and you might as well not play at all and just log off lol. The chain at least offers you to take a part in the game and actually play even if with a little handicap.

This is an easy change. Get rid of the knockdown and keep the charge + slow mechanic.

Maybe have like the sorjek mechanic in Tempest spine switching between bow and sword. Have the bow portion become homing missile with a slow effect for 3 second at most every 10 second.

Considering where the game is now, throwing out absurd ideas might be the way to find some balance between range/caster toon vs melee toon.

[Wizza]

This is an easy change. Get rid of the knockdown and keep the charge + slow mechanic.

So basically turning the Ragers into the Chain spell from Suulomades.

[Rys]

This is an easy change. Get rid of the knockdown and keep the charge + slow mechanic.

Maybe have like the sorjek mechanic in Tempest spine switching between bow and sword. Have the bow portion become homing missile with a slow effect for 3 second at most every 10 second.

Considering where the game is now, throwing out absurd ideas might be the way to find some balance between range/caster toon vs melee toon.

That is pretty much what the crippling was doing in that fight We got set two melee toons yesterday to make a comparison ranged/melee in that fight but Lamannia is down for some reason so can't try today

[JOTMON]

What I don't like about the battle ragers is pretty much that you get KDed and you can't do anything. You can't run, you can't attack, you can't heal, you just lie there and then again and then again and you might as well not play at all and just log off lol. The chain at least offers you to take a part in the game and actually play even if with a little handicap.

There are options..
~work in knockdown immunity . Rogue acrobat, Warlock ES, Grandmaster ED, Unyielding Sentinal Stand against the tide.
~bob and weave tactic.. aka play keep-a-way..
~shield blocking should work.. never tried on a toon without the kd immunity..few players can afford to have 1 player just stand there active shield blocking Kuldjargh's taking damage while someone else dedicates heals on them..
~sacrifice Fawil, or other pet/hireling..

[Rys]

There are options..
~work in knockdown immunity . Rogue acrobat, Warlock ES, Grandmaster ED, Unyielding Sentinal Stand against the tide.
~bob and weave tactic.. aka play keep-a-way..
~shield blocking should work.. never tried on a toon without the kd immunity..few players can afford to have 1 player just stand there active shield blocking Kuldjargh's taking damage while someone else dedicates heals on them..
~sacrifice Fawil, or other pet/hireling..

I choose sacrifice Farwil over any other option

[Eth]

Rys, can you get a death next time, so wizzas deathcount is properly shown on the xp sheet?

[Rys]

Rys, can you get a death next time, so wizzas deathcount is properly shown on the xp sheet?

****, how do you know?

[BigErkyKid]

I think the crippling was a good start. Looking back at the video, wings seemed to be a life saver for me. The Suulo chain would be a nice second step.


This is the mindset I have a problem with but the devs are on the same boat so I can't do much about it. I would rather see challenging BUT rewarding content. Which means harder to complete but with less grind. As it is now, with pretty much everything in game, you run the same quest million times mindlessly to grind million mats. But sure, keep it that way on normal and hard. But offer us a possibility of insanely difficult elite which will reward you accordingly at the end for all the failed attempts if you manage to complete.

Yes!! 100% behind this, even if I can't run it reliably myself because it is too difficult for me.

[Robbenklopper]

What is relevant is determining what we can do to make the quest more challenging to ranged/caster builds. Perhaps they can get something in before the release.

I wanna suggest that this "something" should be a true AI they put in, not just the simple Routines we have for years.

[Blastyswa]

This is the mindset I have a problem with but the devs are on the same boat so I can't do much about it. I would rather see challenging BUT rewarding content. Which means harder to complete but with less grind. As it is now, with pretty much everything in game, you run the same quest million times mindlessly to grind million mats. But sure, keep it that way on normal and hard. But offer us a possibility of insanely difficult elite which will reward you accordingly at the end for all the failed attempts if you manage to complete.

I completely agree; the problem is that if they make the insanely difficult elite too easy, everyone gets all the mats they need in the first week by running the quest LE on first life wizard, and the quests are burnt out in the first week when they're meant to last 3 months (Slight exaggeration on first life wizard, feel free to substitute that with any other build). If they make insanely difficult elite so insanely difficult that the only people who can complete it are trees, warlocks, throwers, wolves, and shiradi's, then everyone is pidgeon-holed into either playing those build's or trying to complete the quest on a build that can't; if you don't think some of those builds are OP, then let's just say only warlocks/shiradi's/trees can complete, since they're the very obvious offenders.

I'd love a chance of failure in LE/EE's, especially when attempting the quest without a balanced party, but until over-performing builds are brought down a bit it's very difficult to challenge those builds and normal builds with the same content.

[slarden]

the problem is that if they make the insanely difficult elite too easy, everyone gets all the mats they need in the first week by running the quest LE

The grind we have in the current end game was the result of complaints that people had everything after a week and had no reason to login.

There is this mythology that Turbine can design LE so that only the top 5% can complete it, but the reality this is a mature game with many good players. It's not like 2010 where there is this massive batch of new players when there really was a top 5%. The top end curve is probably like 33% now of the players being capable vets with many past lifes, great build and solid gear.

The best they can do is make it so that only the top few builds can complete - but I doubt that will be a very popular decision especially since so many of the top builds use features that aren't working as intended.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

The best they can do is make it so that only the top few builds can complete - but I doubt that will be a very popular decision especially since so many of the top builds use features that aren't working as intended.

Many builds are roughly equal in power, lately. I think you grossly overestimate the power of a "broken build." Granted they have continued power creep in an upward direction, but their decision to balance upwards has been largely successful. Past lives are worth less relatively and the builds have been democratized.

However, with balancing upwards they haven't increased difficulty to provide for a real challenge. The best they can do is scale upwards a bit at the very top end. There will still be hard difficulties for other people and I like that we will run that difficulty most of the time. That is how it should be. EE should never have been epic easy.