LGBT Guilds

[JP457]

Recently met a trans person on Cannith. She's new to the game and I was giving her advice and guilds came up. I think there was a LGBT guild on Cannith, but I can't recall the name. Anyone know?

(yes, I could invite her to my guild. we're not specifically LGBT friendly, though. more like "don't cause drama and we'll be fine" friendly. I'd like to give her options on guilds if I can.)

[Loromir]

Recently met a trans person on Cannith. She's new to the game and I was giving her advice and guilds came up. I think there was a LGBT guild on Cannith, but I can't recall the name. Anyone know?

(yes, I could invite her to my guild. we're not specifically LGBT friendly, though. more like "don't cause drama and we'll be fine" friendly. I'd like to give her options on guilds if I can.)

I don't really know what gender a lot of my guild members are, don't care. Just join a guild and be who you are. No need for everyone to know who you used to be.

[Friggli]

Men running around as women in MMORPG is as old as the genre... So I don't see the problem in joining a 0815 guild... You don't have to tell who is behind the screen, and for sure not what your personal history is

[Andrash]

I would have probably suggested a warforged guild...

[Stoner81]

Who cares what their sexual preference or life history is, there is only one important thing to know about a person...

Do they want to play DDO? If so then get on in and get playing!!!!

Stoner81.

[changelingamuck]

It's a valid consideration for a trans person to be interested in joining a LGBTQ...etc. guild.

That person may be interested in building in-game friendships that include some conversation involving some degree of knowledge about their out-of-game life.

And the experience of being trans affects a person's present, out-of-game life in many ways. So, it could very naturally be completely relevant in casual, friendly conversation.

And in-game, they may want to know that the 'social space' that they're mostly playing in has an explicit expectation that people won't be making transphobic comments.

I remember hearing at least one transphobic remark by a player in-game (the juvenile, har har har, 'the mere existence of trans people is funny'-type of "joke"). Oh, and I remember hearing someone making a 'jokey' insult directed at another player suggesting that they might be attracted to male-to-female trans women (the "joke" being that that's supposedly an embarrassing, gross thing). Really, the lazy, trite attempt at "comedy" was almost as eye-roll-worthy as the transphobia...

The transphobic in-game comments are not quite as common, in my experience, as encountering remarks that would be obviously insulting to lesbian, bi, or gay people; but it happens. Really, it's understandable to want to play in a social space in which there's an explicit understanding that bigotry (whether intentionally or unintentionally offensive) is unwelcome.

Just slapping one of these:

onto a guild webpage would repel a lot of obnoxious characters actually.

And maybe follow up with this, lol:


I don't play on Cannith; so I don't know of any appropriate guilds, unfortunately.

[Saekee]

It's a valid consideration for a trans person to be interested in joining a LGBTQ...etc. guild.

That person may be interested in building in-game friendships that include some conversation involving some degree of knowledge about their out-of-game life.

And the experience of being trans affects a person's present, out-of-game life in many ways. So, it could very naturally be completely relevant in casual, friendly conversation.

And in-game, they may want to know that the 'social space' that they're mostly playing in has an explicit expectation that people won't be making transphobic comments.

I remember hearing at least one transphobic remark by a player in-game (the juvenile, har har har, 'the mere existence of trans people is funny'-type of "joke"). Oh, and I remember hearing someone making a 'jokey' insult directed at another player suggesting that they might be attracted to male-to-female trans women (the "joke" being that that's supposedly an embarrassing, gross thing). Really, the lazy, trite attempt at "comedy" was almost as eye-roll-worthy as the transphobia...

The transphobic in-game comments are not quite as common, in my experience, as encountering remarks that would be obviously insulting to lesbian, bi, or gay people; but it happens. Really, it's understandable to want to play in a social space in which there's an explicit understanding that bigotry (whether intentionally or unintentionally offensive) is unwelcome.

Just slapping one of these:

onto a guild webpage would repel a lot of obnoxious characters actually.

And maybe follow up with this, lol:


I don't play on Cannith; so I don't know of any appropriate guilds, unfortunately.

well-stated

[Nonesuch2008]

There's a guild like this on Sarlona that would be a good fit, they do their thing and don't bother anyone else, despite taking grief on occasion from some less than enlightened individuals. I've known a couple of the members for years & definitely count them as friends.

[Ykt]

I'm more interested in playing the game than asking people if they have a *****, a ******, both, or nothing, and what is they sexual orientation.

There are places dedicated to this kind of discussion. This is a game. When you play Monopoly with strangers do you ask them if they are LGBT? I'd hope not.

[Nuclear_Elvis]

Running a very large guild, there are always personalities, preferences, social dynamics at play etc etc etc.

Some advice though: The better answer is to simply not discriminate, but to have stated and up front rules in your Guild. My guild, as example, only has 2 simple rules:

- Follow Turbine's EULA.
- Keep Guild Chat PG-13 because we have many members and sometimes have parent/child groups online together.

That's really all you need to say, regardless who is behind the screen.

And let's face one more fact here: you don't know who is really behind the chat text. Someone claiming to be a teenage girl could be a 60-year old man drooling over his keyboard at the local RV park, stealing free wireless access from a couple RVs over. You really don't know who's who behind the screen, so in the words of Buckaroo Banzai: "Nobody is nobody. Everyone has something to offer."

[changelingamuck]

I'm more interested in playing the game than asking people if they have a *****, a ******, both, or nothing, and what is they sexual orientation.

There are places dedicated to this kind of discussion. This is a game.

The issue at hand here isn't about what you are interested in though.

The issue is that, realistically, some individuals prefer to find social groups in which they know that they would be welcomed if the other people knew who they were in real life (whether or not those other people actually know). And that some individuals prefer to find social groups in which they have reason to feel confident that they won't have to encounter attitudes that are hostile to who they are. And that some individuals prefer to find social groups in which they can socialize with others who are like them in that they share common real-life experiences based on their shared identities--or just social groups where those identities can be known and it doesn't cause any tension.

The person mentioned in the OP was looking for that kind of social setting or 'social space'. It's really not about you.

When you play Monopoly with strangers do you ask them if they are LGBT? I'd hope not.

If they were nice and interesting and if I were attracted to them, I wouldn't just directly ask like that because that would be socially awkward and I have more than basic competence with my social skills--but I'd sure as hell find out somehow, lol.

[dunklezhan]

It's a valid consideration for a trans person to be interested in joining a LGBTQ...etc. guild.

That person may be interested in building in-game friendships that include some conversation involving some degree of knowledge about their out-of-game life.

And the experience of being trans affects a person's present, out-of-game life in many ways. So, it could very naturally be completely relevant in casual, friendly conversation.

And in-game, they may want to know that the 'social space' that they're mostly playing in has an explicit expectation that people won't be making transphobic comments.

I remember hearing at least one transphobic remark by a player in-game (the juvenile, har har har, 'the mere existence of trans people is funny'-type of "joke"). Oh, and I remember hearing someone making a 'jokey' insult directed at another player suggesting that they might be attracted to male-to-female trans women (the "joke" being that that's supposedly an embarrassing, gross thing). Really, the lazy, trite attempt at "comedy" was almost as eye-roll-worthy as the transphobia...

The transphobic in-game comments are not quite as common, in my experience, as encountering remarks that would be obviously insulting to lesbian, bi, or gay people; but it happens. Really, it's understandable to want to play in a social space in which there's an explicit understanding that bigotry (whether intentionally or unintentionally offensive) is unwelcome.

Just slapping one of these:

onto a guild webpage would repel a lot of obnoxious characters actually.

And maybe follow up with this, lol:


I don't play on Cannith; so I don't know of any appropriate guilds, unfortunately.

What changelingamuck said.

I wasn't sure how or if to respond to this thread, given that I don't know of any specifically LGBT* 'friendly' guilds. I don't know of any specifically unfriendly guilds either for that matter, quite honestly I can't say the subject has ever come up - except, once I'd read the post quoted above and thought about it a little, in the exact sorts of scenarios outlined. Where yeah, this sort of thing does happen (though I can't say I can remember the last time I heard something like that in game anywhere, never mind in my guild.)

And its absolutely not acceptable. I'll be more mindful of challenging it.

But I'm not going to go as far as saying 'my guild is LGBT* friendly', mostly because I'm happy that in our guild the subject of sexual orientation simply doesn't come up and if we ever veer into more serious subject matter it tends to stop at sports (where I like to derail as fast as possible by misinterpreting every sporting reference especially the ones I actually get) and folk talking using the different languages present in the guild (where, ditto). And that's how i like it, because that's not why I play.

I will say that we're definitely not LGBT* unfriendly. We're not anyone-unfriendly, except @sshats. I hope. Not whilst I'm online, anyway, because I wouldn't put up with it - the question is whether I am mindful myself to notice it. As I say, I'll try to be more aware of casual trans-(or anything else)-phobia.

TL, DR:

I don't care who you love. Can you hjeal me?

[dunklezhan]

The issue at hand here isn't about what you are interested in though.

The issue is that, realistically, some individuals prefer to find social groups in which they know that they would be welcomed if the other people knew who they were in real life (whether or not those other people actually know). And that some individuals prefer to find social groups in which they have reason to feel confident that they won't have to encounter attitudes that are hostile to who they are. And that some individuals prefer to find social groups in which they can socialize with others who are like them in that they share common real-life experiences based on their shared identities--or just social groups where those identities can be known and it doesn't cause any tension.

The person mentioned in the OP was looking for that kind of social setting or 'social space'. It's really not about you.

Agree with all of this too. That level of social grouping in a game isn't what I'm looking for. But that doesn't make it "invalid" or "wrong" if that's what you're looking for. And no-one has the right to tell you otherwise.

Another person's sexual orientation or gender preference - LGBT* or straight, or asexual, or polygamorous - is of absolutely no negative consequence to me unless someone involved is unwilling and I can't imagine you're going to tell me about that anyway.

I would, in general, prefer not to hear about your real life struggles, whatever they are, whilst we're questing - but me knowing your sexual orientation and/or gender preference isn't going to change my opinion of you one way or the other, and I will speak up if I hear someone else abusing you. You tell me you're a she, or a they, or whatever, that's good enough for me.

[EpicWolfy]

Now I kinda wish I was on Cannith :c I'm also a trans girl and totally wanna be friends with her c:

[Tscheuss]

Recently met a trans person on Cannith. She's new to the game and I was giving her advice and guilds came up. I think there was a LGBT guild on Cannith, but I can't recall the name. Anyone know?

(yes, I could invite her to my guild. we're not specifically LGBT friendly, though. more like "don't cause drama and we'll be fine" friendly. I'd like to give her options on guilds if I can.)

Sex talk should be as off-limits as politics and religion, and for the same reasons.

[changelingamuck]

Sex talk should be as off-limits as politics and religion, and for the same reasons.

"Don't Ask, Don't Tell" isn't a fair option for people even in a game. There's no reason not to discuss who one is if an in-game friendship already includes casual conversation about out-of-game life. Politics and religion are controversial topics in-and-of-themselves because they always involve differences of opinion. The only difference of opinion when it comes to being trans is that some people think it's okay to view trans people negatively and others don't think that's okay. So setting aside talk about gender identity as off-limits is like telling players not to mention their race because some people are racist.

I'm with you about not talking about politics and religion though... except I don't think it's a remarkable issue at all if somebody just shares the simple fact that they're jewish or aetheist or christian or whatever.

Now I kinda wish I was on Cannith :c I'm also a trans girl and totally wanna be friends with her c:

You could always roll up a character on Cannith. There are those well-known disadvantages to starting brand-new on a server though, so I understand your hesitance.

[Tscheuss]

"Don't Ask, Don't Tell" isn't a fair option for people even in a game. There's no reason not to discuss who one is if an in-game friendship already includes casual conversation about out-of-game life. Politics and religion are controversial topics in-and-of-themselves because they always involve differences of opinion. The only difference of opinion when it comes to being trans is that some people think it's okay to view trans people negatively and others don't think that's okay. So setting aside talk about gender identity as off-limits is like telling players not to mention their race because some people are racist.

I'm with you about not talking about politics and religion though... except I don't think it's a remarkable issue at all if somebody just shares the simple fact that they're jewish or aetheist or christian or whatever.



You could always roll up a character on Cannith. There are those well-known disadvantages to starting brand-new on a server though, so I understand your hesitance.

We are imaginary people in an imaginary world. Let's leave RL garbage out of it. This game is about questing, solving puzzles, and KILLING MOBS. This is not a dating game. DDO =/= Tinder.

Looking for a <religion> friendly guild.
Looking for a <race> friendly guild.
Looking for a <political agenda> friendly guild.

We don't need any of that trash in here. All we need is

Looking for a friendly guild.
Looking for a <play style> guild.
Looking for a <time zone> guild.
Looking for a <language> guild.

[EpicWolfy]

We are imaginary people in an imaginary world. Let's leave RL garbage out of it. This game is about questing, solving puzzles, and KILLING MOBS. This is not a dating game. DDO =/= Tinder.

Looking for a <religion> friendly guild.
Looking for a <race> friendly guild.
Looking for a <political agenda> friendly guild.

We don't need any of that trash in here. All we need is

Looking for a friendly guild.
Looking for a <play style> guild.
Looking for a <time zone> guild.
Looking for a <language> guild.

It's not nor has it ever been about "dating" that was never anyone's intention. It's about seeking a welcoming, HEALTHY environment. It should never be out of the question to feel accepted and befriended in real life or in any other social aspect. Would you deny old PnP players to be friends? It's about seeking a group that provides comfort and familiarity. Nothing more, Nothing less. As per your earlier post, it's not a "sex" issue in any meaning of the word, but gender.

It is not a bizarre request to seek others whom you have a higher likelihood to be friends with or bond with. It's simply human nature, hope this helps.

[Alfhild]

We are imaginary people in an imaginary world. Let's leave RL garbage out of it. This game is about questing, solving puzzles, and KILLING MOBS. This is not a dating game. DDO =/= Tinder.

RL garbage as you call it does not necessarily imply a dating game.
Here is an example of a situation which I have encountered numerous times in the game. Male guildie says in voicechat: "Guys, I have to drop group cuz I'm getting wife aggro. She wants me to pick up our daughter from a friend's house. Gotta go!"
The only negative reaction people might have to this is the fact that they are now down a member in the group.
Now let's take another example. Male guildie says in voicechat: "Guys, I have to drop group cuz I am getting hubbie aggro. He wants me to pick up our daughter from a friend's house. Gotta go!"
When people say they are looking for an LGBT friendly guild, they are essentially saying they want to be free to make comments like those above without having to deal with comments that might potentially be made in a less friendly environment.

[Tscheuss]

RL garbage as you call it does not necessarily imply a dating game.
Here is an example of a situation which I have encountered numerous times in the game. Male guildie says in voicechat: "Guys, I have to drop group cuz I'm getting wife aggro. She wants me to pick up our daughter from a friend's house. Gotta go!"
The only negative reaction people might have to this is the fact that they are now down a member in the group.
Now let's take another example. Male guildie says in voicechat: "Guys, I have to drop group cuz I am getting hubbie aggro. He wants me to pick up our daughter from a friend's house. Gotta go!"
When people say they are looking for an LGBT friendly guild, they are essentially saying they want to be free to make comments like those above without having to deal with comments that might potentially be made in a less friendly environment.

They can find that in a friendly guild, without the special interest modifier.

“A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person.” ~Dave Barry

That doesn't mean we need to have a waiter-friendly guild, just a plain, simple, friendly guild.