Say 'NO' to Old Players hatred for New Players!

[TimtheGreat89]

I feel like I must address this. The reason why this game's so completely dead most of the time, is because of Older Players mistreatment to New Players. I am fed up with these a-holes not treating these new and fresh players with respect, and I quote 'Respect'. This is a note for these people: 'you're killing the game, and you're the true reason why this game's dead. So stop mistreating new players by telling them to F off'! I am one of these people that treats new players with total respect, while these a-holes don't! If there's anyone out there that can be part of my little group, and welcome new players into the game with open arms please reply to this thread asap when you have got the chance. We cannot let this continue, we must make this game very lively especially solving the issue with the amount of LFMs each day. And the Dev Team might be impressed with this outcome. So what say you?

Signed: timthegreat89

[Enderoc]

On Thelanis the only jerks I found were first life favor farmers from other servers trying to Zerg everything on elite then blaming everyone else for any shortfall. Yeah we get it, you are short on patience and cash. But that's no excuse to play Hitler on a throwaway you invested 5 minutes to make.

[Hobgoblin]

kobold still hate you.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

Join me and Sally Struthers in helping make the word "Noob" a positive thing.

[JOTMON]

I feel like I must address this. The reason why this game's so completely dead most of the time, is because of Older Players mistreatment to New Players. I am fed up with these a-holes not treating these new and fresh players with respect, and I quote 'Respect'. This is a note for these people: 'you're killing the game, and you're the true reason why this game's dead. So stop mistreating new players by telling them to F off'! I am one of these people that treats new players with total respect, while these a-holes don't! If there's anyone out there that can be part of my little group, and welcome new players into the game with open arms please reply to this thread asap when you have got the chance. We cannot let this continue, we must make this game very lively especially solving the issue with the amount of LFMs each day. And the Dev Team might be impressed with this outcome. So what say you?

Signed: timthegreat89

In most cases it s not hate..
Old players have taken the training wheels off and are ready to go faster.. In many cases they don't want to be dragging along the kid siblings when they want to play with the big boys/girls.


While I agree there is no need for rudeness, it happens.. get over it.
your ahoes will be in every game..Not everyone gets along
if someone is over the top.. right click. report.. other wise , find those that you do get along with and play with them.

and..
I don't believe any of this has anything to do with the dead game... that's a whole different topic..

[Friggli]

I understand that you want to create a bigger community feeling and you want to help newbies. But demanding old players, who have spent years in ddo to care for newbies is like asking Phelps to do swimming lessons with non swimmers or Bolt to go for a jog with high school kids...

Don't understand me wrong, there is no reason to not show respect to everyone. But in concern of playing with each other, I'd rather see completionists playing with high TR players, high TR players with with second and third lifer and second and third lifer with first lifers and newbies. Of course this should not be taken as a strict law, rather as a rule of thumb.

[Hoglum]

While I agree there is no need for rudeness, it happens.. get over it.


and..
I don't believe any of this has anything to do with the dead game... that's a whole different topic..

Here’s where you’re wrong. You’ve been on these forums telling Tubine to “encourage” grouping for quite a while. That encouragement always seems to be along the lines of making soloing a royal pain or even impossible. You keep saying the PUG scene is dead and the game is dying then you turn around and say that has nothing to do with players in game experience.

“Get over it” is not an answer. People are not going to simply accept that they are playing with jerks and they have to put up with it. They will do something else whether it’s quit or just stick with friends and not join PUGs. That’s exactly what people are seeing in game, and somehow you don’t think it has anything to do with players not finding groups that are amicable.

I’ve heard people say to others many times that there’s an “entitlement” problem for people who want to solo or shortman the game. The opposite is truth actually. People who play the game under the terms and conditions Turbine has set forth are indeed entitled to play and there’s nothing in the world stating that PUGGING is part of that.

The real entitlement problem lies with those who think because they play an “MMO” that people have to play with them. That’s where the real entitlement issue is. People playing have an agreement with Turbine but they have no agreement whatsoever with other players. Nobody is entitled to anyone else’s time in game other that those willing to share their time. If people want to play with others, it’s up to them to make and retain friends or show people the good time they are looking for. Nobody playing isn’t looking for a good time because that’s what people play games for.

Next time you start to suggest to Turbine to make people group, try to remember that your in game experience with others is up to you. If people want to have a healthy, thriving community they should try to make sure everyone in group is having fun. It’s fine to say something to the effect that you are going to play your way, others be damned, but you have to remember that when you find yourself with nobody to play with it’s entirely on your shoulders.

[Kwyjibo]

...It’s fine to say something to the effect that you are going to play your way, others be damned, but you have to remember that when you find yourself with nobody to play with it’s entirely on your shoulders.

Don't worry Jot, I'll always be available to group with you, well until you can't keep up or start asking a bunch of dumb questions, or don't add anything valuable to the group.

To the OP: My only responsibility is to make sure Turbine gets my money and I enjoy how I play and with whom I play it...sheesh.

[JOTMON]

Here’s where you’re wrong. You’ve been on these forums telling Tubine to “encourage” grouping for quite a while. That encouragement always seems to be along the lines of making soloing a royal pain or even impossible. You keep saying the PUG scene is dead and the game is dying then you turn around and say that has nothing to do with players in game experience.

“Get over it” is not an answer. People are not going to simply accept that they are playing with jerks and they have to put up with it. They will do something else whether it’s quit or just stick with friends and not join PUGs. That’s exactly what people are seeing in game, and somehow you don’t think it has anything to do with players not finding groups that are amicable.

I’ve heard people say to others many times that there’s an “entitlement” problem for people who want to solo or shortman the game. The opposite is truth actually. People who play the game under the terms and conditions Turbine has set forth are indeed entitled to play and there’s nothing in the world stating that PUGGING is part of that.

The real entitlement problem lies with those who think because they play an “MMO” that people have to play with them. That’s where the real entitlement issue is. People playing have an agreement with Turbine but they have no agreement whatsoever with other players. Nobody is entitled to anyone else’s time in game other that those willing to share their time. If people want to play with others, it’s up to them to make and retain friends or show people the good time they are looking for. Nobody playing isn’t looking for a good time because that’s what people play games for.

Next time you start to suggest to Turbine to make people group, try to remember that your in game experience with others is up to you. If people want to have a healthy, thriving community they should try to make sure everyone in group is having fun. It’s fine to say something to the effect that you are going to play your way, others be damned, but you have to remember that when you find yourself with nobody to play with it’s entirely on your shoulders.

The way I read it the OP's issue was with grizzled older veteran players being mean to newbs..
Pulling in comments I made in other threads about encouraging grouping by not gimping content to make soloing easier is not relevant to this thread.

.. based on your start date.. maybe you are one of the grizzled old veterans...

[JOTMON]

Don't worry Jot, I'll always be available to group with you, well until you can't keep up or start asking a bunch of dumb questions, or don't add anything valuable to the group.

that wont take very long..

[Hoglum]

.. based on your start date.. maybe you are one of the grizzled old veterans...

Yep. I'm constantly hazing newbs. Bantha fodder, I say.



I like hazing vets too though Jot. Just didn't want to leave you out.

Edit: for the record you seem like you're a smart fellow and likely fun to play with.

[JOTMON]

Edit: for the record you seem like you're a smart fellow and likely fun to play with.

Hey now, don't let that kind of talk get around..
Veterans have a negative reputation to maintain.

[Enoach]

The thing is rudeness is not solely owned by "Grizzled vets".

When I first came to play DDO back in the summer of 2006 a large part of the community was built up with PnP players. They had a different approach to questing and grouping. Then came the "Vast and Mysterious" and F2P. Which brought in a large population at the start. But these were people from different MMOs looking for something different, and DDO provided it. However, they also had a different idea of what classes and roles made up the game. Some being very dogmatic and rude about what they expected from others.

We have seen an ebb and flow of different styles and different takes on how to do things (one of the reasons why DPS is not king in combat/character building).

I've seen people come and go, but very few of them "go" because a vet was mean to them. Many left for what they felt was greener grass.

I agree there is never a valid reason to be rude. My suggestion to those that feel rudeness is a proper response is that it is time for a nap, or a snack.

[Milikki]

Hey now, don't let that kind of talk get around..
Veterans have a negative reputation to maintain.

Well, I DID try and feed him to a dragon last night, but he was on the reaver instead.

[Atheok]

I don't think there's a difference of rudeness among old and new players. If someone means to be rude he can be no matter of how long he has played the game. It's easy to attribute to "new players" qualities like purity, sins free, honesty, politeness, etc because they are new. But it's just a mirage, I've seen new players being as rude as anyone else handing out F words and aholes in party chat. Really, right click offers you 2 good options. And yes, move forward it's just a game.

[Memnir]

I've recently started a few alts on another server from my norm, and have been starting pretty much from square one. I mention that only for a little framework.

I very much enjoy helping new players, and do so whenever I have a chance. On said new server - I was helping a group of three totally green players through the Harbor. Two guys were great... listening to advice on how to build characters (the Rouge in particular), and how to approach DDO's quests. The third guy, however, was not so great. He was yelling over the mic, demanding other players (myself in particular) hand over loot in chests because he "needs it nore", and generally being a not nice person to group with. He told me to f myself when I offered a bit of advice after he died.



Rudeness is a personality flaw, and can be found in new and old players alike. Not all new players are willing to listen, or even be nice - and not all long-time players are aholes. I agree that the game needs help - I don't think that veteran player behavior is why the game is in bad shape nor why it's not attracting more players. I agree with JOTMON - the game's issues are far larger, and only slightly tangentially related (if at all) to the OP's point.



YMMV

[Ykt]

I never see anyone hating on new players, even though I have LFMs up all the time and play with PUG nearly 100% of the time.

What I do see is people who don't say they don't know the quest or the area and don't ask for help. I don't mind guiding people through a wilderness area to a quest, but I don't like waiting around while someone is silently struggling and wasting everyone's time. It doesn't matter whether they're new or not, some people don't like to admit they don't know a quest.

[FranOhmsford]

The third guy, however, was not so great. He was yelling over the mic, demanding other players (myself in particular) hand over loot in chests because he "needs it nore", and generally being a not nice person to group with. He told me to f myself when I offered a bit of advice after he died.

This sounds like a guy who was used to the need/greed style looting of other MMOs and didn't understand that in DDO it's different and we all get our own Loot.

As he was yelling over the mic - What would you guess his age was at? Was it a kid?

[lyrecono]

I've recently started a few alts on another server from my norm, and have been starting pretty much from square one. I mention that only for a little framework.

I very much enjoy helping new players, and do so whenever I have a chance. On said new server - I was helping a group of three totally green players through the Harbor. Two guys were great... listening to advice on how to build characters (the Rouge in particular), and how to approach DDO's quests. The third guy, however, was not so great. He was yelling over the mic, demanding other players (myself in particular) hand over loot in chests because he "needs it nore", and generally being a not nice person to group with. He told me to f myself when I offered a bit of advice after he died.



Rudeness is a personality flaw, and can be found in new and old players alike. Not all new players are willing to listen, or even be nice - and not all long-time players are aholes. I agree that the game needs help - I don't think that veteran player behavior is why the game is in bad shape nor why it's not attracting more players. I agree with JOTMON - the game's issues are far larger, and only slightly tangentially related (if at all) to the OP's point.



YMMV

Yep, just this.

I met A-holes among newbies, vets, permadeath and pnp crowd, just to name a few groups.

However OP, have you tried seeing it through the eyes of a vet?

I can't and won't judge the situation that led you to write this but consider this

i'm one of the more social vets, running a heroic life a week, 3 months straight with open, friendly LFM's and i meet up with a lot of those newbies, noobs and other types of dead weight that is waiting for me to log on so i can carry them through content and pass along loot.
some days i spend more time typing advise and canith crafting for them than actually playing the game (seriously, get a pair of 5 dollar earplugs and safe me the trouble of typing so much).
Besides my heroic work (no pun intended) i also run with a group of dedicated EE and LE players, steamrolling through content so i do understand the frustrations of veteran players when dealing with content that is too difficult to carry weaker players.
When a player like me who has been carrying noobs and newbs for almost a decade feels the fatigue of disappearing players he has been training, how is a short fussed dedicated EE zerger supposed to feel?

I think the problem is with me and players like me, we have been carrying these weaker player for much too long to the point that they feel comfortable to apply to content they shouldn't be running in the first place. Maybe the most important thing we should teach them is to learn the limits of their play style and characters.
When they come into contact with other vets the get torn a new one and sometimes rightfully so.
Not listening, ruining the quest for others, bringing under powered toons to LE content etc, i have seen it all over the years.
And yes some vets should cool down in their rage and news should pull up their pants or stop applying to LE content however, some vets have been and always be poorly equipped the personality department. No post like this will ever change that.

Fact of the game is: there is a huge difference in power between vets and newer players (build, past lives, gear and know how of the game),
On the one hand it's good they join elite runs to experience what's it like but i do expect them to pick up the pace after a whille.
On the other hand, by what right do they apply to elite runs?
A case could be made for both viewpoints.

As for the vet saying F-off, i personally don't agree but i do understand how some vets can get frustrated.

All i can say is deal with it, it's part of real life too.
Explain the situation to the newbie if you feel inclined to do so and move on.

I recently had some issues with what must have been a new player (at least i hope so)
He had an lfm up for heroic elite tempest spine zerg with 2 other people in party, i joined, said: stepping in and started the raid.
At around 7 minutes i said : fire and ice are done, i left the chests closed.
The party leader said he was taking lv 11
I called out that i picked up the second and later the third rune when i saw 2 blue dots on the map, i did the puzzle and inserted the runes when the party leader said: are you in already?, i never said you could go in.
Another party member reminded him that i kept everyone updated on the progress and he should have been aware of that.
The party leader accused me of being in before i joined because i couldn't have solo'd the raid in under 20 min......
The fail was high in this one.
He refused to step in so i completed it and offered to run it again.
After some profanities and scolding me over the fact i stepped in before the party leader he rage quit the party.
He set up a new lfm for HE tempest spine and so did i, mine completed withing 20 min and he was still sitting on a empty lfm (in this case being a vet with a respectable name did help me fill that lfm)
The party leader spoke with a southern accent and didn't sound intoxicated, he was just clueless on the game and manners.
The toon i was running is now 4 heroic lives richer sitting at 30, i still see his lfm's every day, he is stuck at 14 now because everyone avoids his lfm's, i guess his attitude scared of the player base.
I could be just as petty or have started an argument about him being phallicly challenged but what would that resolve?
I shrugged and moved on, he wasn't important enough to care about the situation.

Even newer players can be absolute nutcases

The same justice will happen to that vet, eventually he will run out of people to run with.
A mmo community is just that, a community, if that dies, so does the game.
This game has a very small yet dedicated community that deals with their problem players by ignoring them, he will learn just like the newb what is expected of him, or leave for a while.

[Memnir]

As he was yelling over the mic - What would you guess his age was at? Was it a kid?

No, he was older. I'd say late 20s to mid 30s.