Say 'NO' to Old Players hatred for New Players!

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I blame WOW.

[minorpenthes]

The thing is rudeness is not solely owned by "Grizzled vets".

When I first came to play DDO back in the summer of 2006 a large part of the community was built up with PnP players. They had a different approach to questing and grouping. Then came the "Vast and Mysterious" and F2P. Which brought in a large population at the start. But these were people from different MMOs looking for something different, and DDO provided it. However, they also had a different idea of what classes and roles made up the game. Some being very dogmatic and rude about what they expected from others.

We have seen an ebb and flow of different styles and different takes on how to do things (one of the reasons why DPS is not king in combat/character building).

I've seen people come and go, but very few of them "go" because a vet was mean to them. Many left for what they felt was greener grass.

I agree there is never a valid reason to be rude. My suggestion to those that feel rudeness is a proper response is that it is time for a nap, or a snack.

I was one of those F2P players that came in, back when DDO was actually advertised on other websites (aside: MAYBE START ADVERTISING AGAIN, SO WE CAN ACTUALLY GET MORE NEW PLAYERS AND THIS WHOLE THREAD CEASES TO BE MOSTLY THEORETICAL!!! /end rant).

I remember there being a certain amount of trolling, primarily to the effect that DDO was not like WOW.

I also remember being told I was "gimp" for playing multi-class characters, since I came at DDO not from another MMO, but from the perspective of having started playing AD&D in the late 70s (stop a moment to savour the irony, if you like).

For the most part, with a very few exceptions, I found that most of the veterans were very friendly to new players, and quite patient.

There were exceptions, of course (aren't there always?).

And of course, every exception could conceivably drive away a new player who might otherwise have thrived in a more nurturing environment.

But then again, from my point of view, it seemed that there was still not quite as much of a problem with jaded ennui among vets.

People had only run Korthos dozens of times, at that point, not hundreds.

I try to be patient with new players, but then again, I am hardly "leet". I remember being uncomfortable when vets lost their shyte over what I did (there being a time when it was an insufferable sin to "lose" someone's GOD GRANTED 10% xp by being so rude as to die or something). I might lose my temper if I specifically warned a new player NOT to do something which ruined the quest and/or killed me or others in the party, and then that player did exactly what they were warned not to do- but if that player was contrite and it was obvious they had seen a message too late, or not completely understood it, I would probably not be as angry as if that player got defensive.

[Ykt]

The party leader accused me of being in before i joined because i couldn't have solo'd the raid in under 20 min......

I solo elite TS under 9 mins with the shortcut after taking the fire and ice rune

[lyrecono]

I solo elite TS under 9 mins with the shortcut after taking the fire and ice rune

i wasn't using shortcuts and i doubt he knew of them, you might have blown his mind

[slarden]

On my machine all I could see of the title from the main forum was "Say 'No' t Old Players' - that would have been a much more interesting topic.

What I've observed is that by and large people are nice and helpful to new players on Sarlona.

The pvp people can be obnoxious and I wish they weren't in harbor chat.

Sometimes new players don't have sound and don't read party chat so when they cause the stormreaver to reset for example it might make people a little irritated, but generally people are still nice about it.

[Memnir]

On my machine all I could see of the title from the main forum was "Say 'No' t Old Players' - that would have been a much more interesting topic.

[TimtheGreat89]

I've recently started a few alts on another server from my norm, and have been starting pretty much from square one. I mention that only for a little framework.

I very much enjoy helping new players, and do so whenever I have a chance. On said new server - I was helping a group of three totally green players through the Harbor. Two guys were great... listening to advice on how to build characters (the Rouge in particular), and how to approach DDO's quests. The third guy, however, was not so great. He was yelling over the mic, demanding other players (myself in particular) hand over loot in chests because he "needs it nore", and generally being a not nice person to group with. He told me to f myself when I offered a bit of advice after he died.



Rudeness is a personality flaw, and can be found in new and old players alike. Not all new players are willing to listen, or even be nice - and not all long-time players are aholes. I agree that the game needs help - I don't think that veteran player behavior is why the game is in bad shape nor why it's not attracting more players. I agree with JOTMON - the game's issues are far larger, and only slightly tangentially related (if at all) to the OP's point.



YMMV

Generally, I put people who are not so awesome on my DNG (Do Not Group) list. There was one time when i was on my Monk/Fighter/Druid Build, I was running the final quest in the Sharn Syndicate Series with a bunch of people. When we got to the main boss, the party leader told us to let the chosen ally die. I asked why does it matter if he lives, and I think it's obvious that you can unlock an extra chest if that ally dies. I was like to him 'dude, it's just a chest. So why does it matter if we don't get that extra chest?' and he just left the quest and quit the party in rage.

Tried to tell him to calm the f down, it's not the end of the world and etc. Of course, he snaps back at me in various bad words that I can't even describe them here. But there was a part that read 'I don't care about this game no more'. Another guy in the party soon left not long after, claiming that other guy was actually his brother I was dissing at. And it became clear that those two dimbos didn't like my playstyle what so ever! But I'm glad they didn't report me for dissing them, but I'm being honest here because I didn't start the fight, they did. Me and another guy did manage to complete it though. The morale of the story, don't group with people that have short attention spans.

[Enoach]

Generally, I put people who are not so awesome on my DNG (Do Not Group) list. There was one time when i was on my Monk/Fighter/Druid Build, I was running the final quest in the Sharn Syndicate Series with a bunch of people. When we got to the main boss, the party leader told us to let the chosen ally die. I asked why does it matter if he lives, and I think it's obvious that you can unlock an extra chest if that ally dies. I was like to him 'dude, it's just a chest. So why does it matter if we don't get that extra chest?' and he just left the quest and quit the party in rage.

Tried to tell him to calm the f down, it's not the end of the world and etc. Of course, he snaps back at me in various bad words that I can't even describe them here. But there was a part that read 'I don't care about this game no more'. Another guy in the party soon left not long after, claiming that other guy was actually his brother I was dissing at. And it became clear that those two dimbos didn't like my playstyle what so ever! But I'm glad they didn't report me for dissing them, but I'm being honest here because I didn't start the fight, they did. Me and another guy did manage to complete it though. The morale of the story, don't group with people that have short attention spans.

Wait, what?

The party leader wanted to run the quest a certain way, you felt that it was not worth it to run that way, party leader rage quits group (poor move), but you didn't start anything but did exchange "disses". However, you start a post about "Old Players hatred for New Players" because of this? You started the disagreement with the party leader take some ownership of that.

Just as a note my belief is that it is the Party Leader that is in charge of setting the tone. If they want to get all the chests, optionals or simply invisible run to the end it is their choice. As party members it is our choice to follow how they want to do the quest or politely leave and form or find another group that wants to run it the way we do. The only time I see it acceptable to run a quest counter to how a PL wants to do it is when how they want to do it has failed and the only way to salvage it is to do it differently.

[JOTMON]

Generally, I put people who are not so awesome on my DNG (Do Not Group) list. There was one time when i was on my Monk/Fighter/Druid Build, I was running the final quest in the Sharn Syndicate Series with a bunch of people. When we got to the main boss, the party leader told us to let the chosen ally die. I asked why does it matter if he lives, and I think it's obvious that you can unlock an extra chest if that ally dies. I was like to him 'dude, it's just a chest. So why does it matter if we don't get that extra chest?' and he just left the quest and quit the party in rage.

Tried to tell him to calm the f down, it's not the end of the world and etc. Of course, he snaps back at me in various bad words that I can't even describe them here. But there was a part that read 'I don't care about this game no more'. Another guy in the party soon left not long after, claiming that other guy was actually his brother I was dissing at. And it became clear that those two dimbos didn't like my playstyle what so ever! But I'm glad they didn't report me for dissing them, but I'm being honest here because I didn't start the fight, they did. Me and another guy did manage to complete it though. The morale of the story, don't group with people that have short attention spans.

/fail.

I agree with Enoch, it was his party.
Utimately, yeah who cares its just a chest.. but I like my loots,
While he may have 'lost it' and used uncivil commentary, You became the antagonist by challenging his intent for his group...and I read this as you being a pug who screwed up a chest looting.

[zwiebelring]

I feel like I must address this. The reason why this game's so completely dead most of the time, is because of Older Players mistreatment to New Players. I am fed up with these a-holes not treating these new and fresh players with respect, and I quote 'Respect'. This is a note for these people: 'you're killing the game, and you're the true reason why this game's dead. So stop mistreating new players by telling them to F off'! I am one of these people that treats new players with total respect, while these a-holes don't! If there's anyone out there that can be part of my little group, and welcome new players into the game with open arms please reply to this thread asap when you have got the chance. We cannot let this continue, we must make this game very lively especially solving the issue with the amount of LFMs each day. And the Dev Team might be impressed with this outcome. So what say you?

Signed: timthegreat89

Can you give an example at least? Talking about respect by using words like 'a-holes' takes every credibility by the way. If you want to rant, do it less emotionally and more professionally .

[FranOhmsford]

Generally, I put people who are not so awesome on my DNG (Do Not Group) list. There was one time when i was on my Monk/Fighter/Druid Build, I was running the final quest in the Sharn Syndicate Series with a bunch of people. When we got to the main boss, the party leader told us to let the chosen ally die. I asked why does it matter if he lives, and I think it's obvious that you can unlock an extra chest if that ally dies. I was like to him 'dude, it's just a chest. So why does it matter if we don't get that extra chest?' and he just left the quest and quit the party in rage.

Tried to tell him to calm the f down, it's not the end of the world and etc. Of course, he snaps back at me in various bad words that I can't even describe them here. But there was a part that read 'I don't care about this game no more'. Another guy in the party soon left not long after, claiming that other guy was actually his brother I was dissing at. And it became clear that those two dimbos didn't like my playstyle what so ever! But I'm glad they didn't report me for dissing them, but I'm being honest here because I didn't start the fight, they did. Me and another guy did manage to complete it though. The morale of the story, don't group with people that have short attention spans.

Isn't it a short attention span to be too lazy to go back and loot a chest?

For newbies it's NOT JUST A CHEST! It's astonishing how Vets forget just how tough it is to find Gear, Gather up enough Plat to use the AH for a Newbie! Maybe he has his own Guild and wants every last bit of renown? Maybe he's hoping to maximise his chances of getting that elusive +1 tome by looting every last Chest!
No matter - It was HIS Group, HE makes the Rules!

That guy wasn't the one with a short attention span - He was willing to wait for the NPC to die and go back for the Chest!

You were being an Elitist in this story and he was probably at the end of his tether thanks to there being so many like you in DDO!

[Hobgoblin]

I blame WOW.

thanks obama.



or its bushs fault! to get both sides!

[JOTMON]

thanks obama.



or its bushs fault! to get both sides!

Build a wall, that will fix all the problems..

[Hoglum]

Tried to tell him to calm the f down, it's not the end of the world and etc

Do you believe this encourages grouping? It would seem while playing with you a couple people felt it was better to leave party rather than continue. Somehow I don't think this sort of thing is conducive to a healthy pug environment.

Here are some options that might help make friends rather than run people off:

1. Apologize: admit you went against the leader's direction and messed it up. I personally did exactly that in Shroud when I ruined 11 people's chance to get extra chests at the end of part 3. I admitted it was me, said I'm terribly sorry I didn't know that would happen. It turned out ok & even though people were upset we all continued to have fun and finished strong.

2. Ask if there was anything in particular the leader was looking for in the chest. If so, you'd be happy to run the dungeon again and pass that particular item if it dropped for you.

3. If the idea was simply to get loot rather than no loot, suggest the party runs a dungeon that has lots of loot. "Oh, you're looking for gear & plat? Maybe we can run Stormreach Outpost. There are a lot of chests and I can pick locks!"

I agree with posters who state it's not about vets/newbs. It's about how people treat each other in general. Folks who would like people to play with should make sure they are fun people to play with.

[phillymiket]

In order for the OPs theory to make sense, most other games would need to be more new-player friendly than DDO.
I don't think that is the case.
DDO may not be as friendly as it was in the past but it's still ahead of the curve.

(Unless someone can list a bunch of major MMOs that don't have arrogant, mean-spirited veterans.)

[Cetus]

Edit: for the record you seem like you're a smart fellow and likely fun to play with.

No, we tend to avoid him.

[JOTMON]

No, we tend to avoid him.

This is why Pugs are nicer.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

"Old Players hatred for New Players!" Dang why did I not get the email stating that I needed to HATE new players?! I blame the Players Council for not forwarding it to me, after all I am on the secure private old timers server.
Shifts to grumpy ol player mode "Get off my Necro you young wippersnappers!"

[UurlockYgmeov]

New players: stalk (oops - adopt) a old player today!
Existing (Veteran) Players: Adopt a new player today! (just go to Korthos and pick one at random!)

[Memnir]

I blame the Players Council

Would that be the New Players Council, or the Old Players Council?