Update 32 on Lamannia: Cannith Crafting Preview

[Stoner81]

Here's a level 10 bound item (which seems really strong to me):



Although I will note that the insightful strength shard on there is level 275. The other two are 100.

For level 10 that is crazy good beyond reason! The only item in Heroics that comes close is the gloves from House C which have STR +6 and Resistance +5 on it and can be upgraded to something else but those are level 18! So getting +8 STR AND RESISTANCE +5 at level 10 is just crazy good! Maybe even to the point of being too good? Depends on the cost to make them I guess and the crafting levels required.

Stoner81.

[Wizza]

From the OP

COLLECTIBLES:
Collectibles will be used in all crafting recipes. Many of the collectibles already exist, but some new collectibles have been added that appear in higher levels in both Eberron and the Forgotten Realms.

Thanks, I missed that somehow. Hope there is gonna be enough of them in already existing quests.

[dunklezhan]

For level 10 that is crazy good beyond reason! The only item in Heroics that comes close is the gloves from House C which have STR +6 and Resistance +5 on it and can be upgraded to something else but those are level 18! So getting +8 STR AND RESISTANCE +5 at level 10 is just crazy good! Maybe even to the point of being too good? Depends on the cost to make them I guess and the crafting levels required.

Stoner81.

I agree its crazy powerful... but not compared to random loot, which can drop better at that ML, and would be unbound as well!

From what Psycho says, the level of crafting you need to make that item is crazy high if you're not already a high level crafter with a ton of ingredients left over, and the ingredients in question include purified fragments and relatively large stacks of collectibles. For the bound version.

The gloves you speak of are named items, and they are already massively overshadowed by lootgen's capabilities if you just got that lucky once.

And this item did drop for you in lootgen and happened to be of no use to you? You'd put something like that on the shard exchange. Can't do that with the CC item you quoted. Making an unbound version of that would require even higher crafting levels, and even more expensive ingredients from the sounds of it - and it still wouldnt' be as good as the theoretical maximum lootgen could provide you at that level.

I think what you are observing here is that the current lootgen ML balance is off in general, which I would agree with.

Probably need to nerf random gen down about 4 levels. This would then presumably do the same to the CC output too, given the current design choice to limit CC as compared to lootgen in the first place.

I understand that this looks really powerful, but you have to remember this is on Lam with free access to as much materials as you like - what Psychoblonde has done is show you what you can manage if basically money is no object, but they've also taken pains to try to compare that against a reasonable gameplay experience too, which I appreciate because what it shows is that people able to make this stuff will be few and far between, let alone people with enough ingredients to do so casually.

Those motivated few with a compulsion to be "optimal" even when they aren't having any current difficulty with content (that's not a criticism, folk like that keep the game going) are not forced to grind cannith. In fact, they shouldn't because Lootgen can produce more powerful stuff. Those people should keep their eyes closely on the AH, shard exchange, and chest/end rewards because they WILL find better there, eventually.

Everyone else can be happy with 'good>great' loot instead of 'optimal' either by grinding crafting, or passing ingredients to those who have.

So I don't really understand the problem. If you want the best loot, continue to grind raid loot systems or random loot. CC will not produce the most powerful gear - just the sorts of effects you want until the 'perfect' loot actually drops for you.

Anyway - from looking at the thread, screenshots and psycho's data, frankly I'm feeling like I still have a freakin' mountain range to climb to get from what I think will be about crafting level 225 to cap again. I have no purified fragments left on live, for example. That's not a bad thing, and I certainly don't feel like I'm about to get anything that's going to invalidate the existing loot of me or my guildies.

What I do see is a reason for my guildies to ask for me to swap to my crafter again to try to plug a particular gap till they get something better - and I miss getting those sorts of requests.

[mikarddo]

What I do see is a reason for my guildies to ask for me to swap to my crafter again to try to plug a particular gap till they get something better - and I miss getting those sorts of requests.

Do you have any plan for handling the PEDS needs when crafting for others? The essences and collectibles are tradeable so the guildie can supply those if needed - but the Purified are not and may very well become a major bottleneck for crafting for friends.

[silinteresting]

PsychoBlonde thankyou for all the work youve done here very much appreciated.

your friend sil

[BigErkyKid]

I agree its crazy powerful... but not compared to random loot, which can drop better at that ML, and would be unbound as well!
...
So I don't really understand the problem. If you want the best loot, continue to grind raid loot systems or random loot. CC will not produce the most powerful gear - just the sorts of effects you want until the 'perfect' loot actually drops for you.
.

What are the odds that RNG produces something better than some of this CC stuff? Really, what are the odds? Because just saying that it is "possible" doesn't cut it.

Based on my IG experience, pulling a 15 DEX / 7 INS DEX / 60 HAMP is extremely unlikely. Heck, even a 15/7 ability alone is very unlikely. So saying people can do better by waiting for random loot to drop that stars aligned combination is hardly a consolation. In addition to the fact that star aligned combinations are just a matter of plain luck, not of successfully beating a challenge.

Let me put it this way: the more powerful the stuff (loot, PLs) gated behind grind is, the more this game becomes a grinding rather than challenging game.

This CC update is going to bring in a lot of grind into the game, basically running old eberron epics for tokens to turn into eberron fragments (and old eberron quests are vastly outdated in terms of power), and looting as many quests as possible otherwise (to level your crafter).

Frankly, unless they start putting collectables in end game chests with drop rates tied to difficulty, I see absolutely no room for CC being a nice addition to the game.

[Qhualor]

For level 10 that is crazy good beyond reason! The only item in Heroics that comes close is the gloves from House C which have STR +6 and Resistance +5 on it and can be upgraded to something else but those are level 18! So getting +8 STR AND RESISTANCE +5 at level 10 is just crazy good! Maybe even to the point of being too good? Depends on the cost to make them I guess and the crafting levels required.

Stoner81.

I wouldn't call it crazy good, but definitely good. For me, since I still have a lot of the old random loot, it would mean consolidating 2-3 slots into 1 and only losing +1 to resistance. I don't think most random loot surpasses old random loot until around level 12 or so. I dnot craft so not sure how long and how much effort it would be to craft something like that to be worth the trouble considering heroics are considered easy without the need to twink.

[Axeyu]

I don't see how this will not invalidate 99% of the 1% of random gear that actually is good. CC needs even stricted slot requirments to allow random loot to remain interesting outside of star align, loot weekend cases.

[slarden]

What are the odds that RNG produces something better than some of this CC stuff? Really, what are the odds? Because just saying that it is "possible" doesn't cut it.

Based on my IG experience, pulling a 15 DEX / 7 INS DEX / 60 HAMP is extremely unlikely. Heck, even a 15/7 ability alone is very unlikely. So saying people can do better by waiting for random loot to drop that stars aligned combination is hardly a consolation. In addition to the fact that star aligned combinations are just a matter of plain luck, not of successfully beating a challenge.

Let me put it this way: the more powerful the stuff (loot, PLs) gated behind grind is, the more this game becomes a grinding rather than challenging game.

This CC update is going to bring in a lot of grind into the game, basically running old eberron epics for tokens to turn into eberron fragments (and old eberron quests are vastly outdated in terms of power), and looting as many quests as possible otherwise (to level your crafter).

Frankly, unless they start putting collectables in end game chests with drop rates tied to difficulty, I see absolutely no room for CC being a nice addition to the game.

If it's as powerful as you claim, it's worth running quests to gather ingredients.

You seem to be saying it's OP while at the same time saying it's not worth the grind. Good Grief Charlie Brown.

[Aelonwy]

I don't see how this will not invalidate 99% of the 1% of random gear that actually is good. CC needs even stricted slot requirments to allow random loot to remain interesting outside of star align, loot weekend cases.

You must be just swimming in rare collectibles and Purified Eberron Dragonshards (PED). Most of the recipes look as if to make these best case scenario items (with 3rd effect) will require 15 PEDs each. On live I currently have 30... that's 2 items assuming I have all the other necessary collectibles. For bound items. I can't see myself ever making anything unbound again on the fly just to help someone.

[Enderoc]

You apparently get a static 4 crafting xp for dissolving an item into essences. That's going to take a LONG time to have an impact on your crafting level.

I don't know about that... There is a lot of trash out there lol

[slarden]

You must be just swimming in rare collectibles and Purified Eberron Dragonshards (PED). Most of the recipes look as if to make these best case scenario items (with 3rd effect) will require 15 PEDs each. On live I currently have 30... that's 2 items assuming I have all the other necessary collectibles. For bound items. I can't see myself ever making anything unbound again on the fly just to help someone.

This is an excellent summary of the situation. When tomes were available in birthday boxes I crunched those btc tomes for bta purified eberron dragonshards. I might still have a few bank toons that can do that.

Other than that they are very rare as drops and the items you can exchange to get purified eberron dragon shards are rare.

I've accumulated alot of fragrant drowshood and lightning split soarwood over the years but I used most of those on stone of change recipes so I might have 10 of each total on my account if I am lucky.

I wont be using my rare ingredients to make level 4 twink gear for sure.
+16-17 stats, +7-8 <school focus> , +4 insightful <school focus> still only exists on random loot. I won't be crafting replacement gear for those things.

If people want me to make unbound items they will need to pony up essences, collectibles, tomes, etc. to cover the cost. I won't even have enough mats to make half the stuff I want to make.

[Enderoc]

I will say this gives reason to keep a capped character to collect necessary ingredients. Which isn't bad as you can go back and forth with two characters with reason instead of focusing on one so you don't feel playing is becoming too much of a hamster wheel.

[Axeyu]

You must be just swimming in rare collectibles and Purified Eberron Dragonshards (PED). Most of the recipes look as if to make these best case scenario items (with 3rd effect) will require 15 PEDs each. On live I currently have 30... that's 2 items assuming I have all the other necessary collectibles. For bound items. I can't see myself ever making anything unbound again on the fly just to help someone.

It's just a matter of time.
You can also bet that availability will be increased after incessive whining on the forums by the vocal casual crowd.
In the long term the only reasonable way to balance it is by slot restrictions, that is also what they tried to do when removing flexible shards. They just need to take it further.

[JOTMON]

For level 10 that is crazy good beyond reason! The only item in Heroics that comes close is the gloves from House C which have STR +6 and Resistance +5 on it and can be upgraded to something else but those are level 18! So getting +8 STR AND RESISTANCE +5 at level 10 is just crazy good! Maybe even to the point of being too good? Depends on the cost to make them I guess and the crafting levels required.

Stoner81.

Yup, OP BS.

Insightful shouldn't even be available until level 16 on any random or crafted items. only named items should be an exception here..


and...crafting costs are out of whack..looks like they are screwing us over.

1.no alternatives/substitutes for collectibles
Devs~give us more than one static choice for crafting items.. Remnants, XP stones,.. something....

2. no flexible crafting~
Devs~what is the point of custom crafting if you choke us into the same pigeon-holed limited choice items as randomgens~

3.way too many purified dragonshards required. these are BTA items..
Devs~ quit screwing over, us reduce the requirement and unbind these(in fact unbind most collectibles except the very extreme high end craftings)..~
Opening up tome trade ins for tomes above +2 is helpful, especially since we cant use those btc/bta tomes anyway when we have already purchased higher level ones from the DDO store.. but the requirement is still too high..

4. and still no mass deconstruction..
Devs~bump this for priority~
you will drive away players from crafting if we have to stand in front of alters single clicking individual items for hours on end..
and while you are at it fix the [expletive] stone of change so I can crunch Khyber/syberis shards in bigger stacks and not have to close reopen the interface every 100 stack.... This is BS that has gone one for far too long..

[Cordovan]

Thanks for the feedback so far, everyone. Don't forget we have a dev event TONIGHT from seven to nine Eastern.

[Rasputin]

...or just their recipes?

I'm going through my crafter's gargantuan ingredients bag, where all of the shards I ever created while leveling are still sitting. I'm going through them right now and deconstructing them since it looks like old shards are going to disappear when the new update goes live. However, I was going to keep the flexible ones since they were going to become irreplaceable.

Then it occurred to me that they might ALL be disappearing in a few days. Is that so? Should I deconstruct every shard in my bag?


Thanks.

[BigErkyKid]

If it's as powerful as you claim, it's worth running quests to gather ingredients.

You seem to be saying it's OP while at the same time saying it's not worth the grind. Good Grief Charlie Brown.

Where did I say it is not worth it?

I said that putting yet more power gated by time sinks instead of challenge is bad.

The items are insanely powerful. Maybe you swim in 15/7 +something items but I don't. For example, the best current raid item for wisdom is a 12/4 in googles from Doj.

Acquiring mats an essences is not challenging in the least since they drop in all difficulties. Standing in front of an interface crunching crab has no appeal from either a challenge or even gameplay stand point.

The whole CC system has always been a flop but at least until now one could ignore it. Not it is being forced down our throats by giving it a level of awesomeness it is hard to ignore.

So I either spend money and time in the salt mines deconstructing and crafting ******** or I play the rng lottery for a couple years to get that oh so common 15/7 dex ring of hamp. Gotcha!

[BigErkyKid]

This is an excellent summary of the situation. When tomes were available in birthday boxes I crunched those btc tomes for bta purified eberron dragonshards. I might still have a few bank toons that can do that.

Other than that they are very rare as drops and the items you can exchange to get purified eberron dragon shards are rare.

I've accumulated alot of fragrant drowshood and lightning split soarwood over the years but I used most of those on stone of change recipes so I might have 10 of each total on my account if I am lucky.

I wont be using my rare ingredients to make level 4 twink gear for sure.
+16-17 stats, +7-8 <school focus> , +4 insightful <school focus> still only exists on random loot. I won't be crafting replacement gear for those things.

If people want me to make unbound items they will need to pony up essences, collectibles, tomes, etc. to cover the cost. I won't even have enough mats to make half the stuff I want to make.

Or you know, you can buy the eberron thingies from the store. This is almost at the level of selling legendary green steel mats at the store.

[Aelonwy]

Or you know, you can buy the eberron thingies from the store. This is almost at the level of selling legendary green steel mats at the store.

Bingo. By tying crafting to an ingredient that is incredibly hard to come by (PEDs) without spending real money and then multiplying said ingredient by 10 or 15 for each individual item a person might craft they are essentially monetizing loot. For those people that feel the NEW crafting is as powerful as raid loot or almost then its like they've found a way to monetize crafted raid loot.

I don't mind crafting XP elixers and success boosters as a means to monetize the system but I just don't come by enough tomes or small/med/large eberron dragonshards to make these recipes reasonable.

And to those who say its just a matter of time... I've been playing since 2009, okay I'm a casual gamer and play between 10 and 14 hrs a week, but I pick up every collectible I come across as I quest, I break everything, I'm a flower-sniffer so sue me... but I know based on my play style and what I've picked up since I began that the PED requirements for these recipes are outrageous and some of the rarer collectibles like Lightning Split Soarwood for instance just do not drop at the frequency that these recipes are expecting.

Now could they in fact fix this issue by upping the drop rate of some of the rarer collectibles and +1/2 tomes? Sure. But it would probably be simpler and wiser to lower the requirements of PEDs and incredibly rare collectibles... or you know only have the incredibly rare and expensive collectibles used in the recipes they truly want to limit the most instead of basic recipes.