Update 32 on Lamannia: Cannith Crafting Preview

[Cocomajobo]

2. There's really no point in going above level 380 (even though max level is like 400) because there's just nothing to make above that point--I hit 100% success on all possible shards before.

There should be a list of unbound shards at 425 which you can craft (at low success rates) by the time you reach cap.

[Cocomajobo]

1. Make the "add an extra slot" line go away when you have already added an extra slot to an item, that's just confusing.

Yeah, this is a known issue. The recipe simply isn't removing the "You can add an Extra slot" effect on the item. It, however, won't actually add a second empty Extra slot until you've filled the first one. Regardless, I believe this is already fixed internally and will for sure not make it to live.

Also, I'm not sure why there are TWO recipes for this (and you can put them both on the same item although it does nothing.)

One of the recipes uses the Bound versions of Marks of Cannith as an ingredient. The other uses the unbound version as an ingredient.

Also, I'd like to thank you very much for taking the time to make such a thorough pass on this. =]

[Elfishski]

Here's a level 10 bound item (which seems really strong to me):



Although I will note that the insightful strength shard on there is level 275. The other two are 100.

The power level in the items people posted so far is too high. It sounds super tedious to level up Cannith Crafting to new levels, but once you get there there will NEVER be a reason to ever look at any random loot again except maaaaybe a random +17 stat item at level 30 if you really care about DCs. Just pick a handful of named/raid items with unique powers then craft other effects as necessary. Which I wouldn't do anyway, but only because of being lazy and having no content which requires 'gearing up' in order to make it through. Then U33 we'll have named items with even higher bonuses at low levels to make them 'relevant'. Come on devs, stop increasing power by 20% every update, it's absurd!

This is not remotely in keeping with the stated goal of having random loot, named loot, and crafted loot all having a unique niche in a player's gear. The interface sounds like a good improvement and pleasant simplification though, so it may not be too late to salvage it and balance power of crafted items in a better and in a more interesting way, see suggestion https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...t=#post5829790

[PsychoBlonde]

The power level in the items people posted so far is too high.

I, personally, don't think it's too high. Hit Lamma and get a gander at the amount of **** you need to craft some of that stuff--it's EXPENSIVE. This new system is very much a prestige system given the amount of work and ingredients you need to grind out to be able to make some of this stuff. If it were reduced SLIGHTLY I wouldn't go crazy, though. If it's reduced A LOT I will be very unhappy.

Seriously, even with a willingness to throw down a large amount of cash on DDO store items getting to cap is going to be SERIOUS work, FAR more work than crafting a wide array of Legendary Greensteel items.

[LrdSlvrhnd]

Yeah, this is a known issue. The recipe simply isn't removing the "You can add an Extra slot" effect on the item. It, however, won't actually add a second empty Extra slot until you've filled the first one. Regardless, I believe this is already fixed internally and will for sure not make it to live.

Better idea: Remove the text altogether. We don't need extra random text that does nothing but annoy us.

It should be:

- No text.
- Text when we've applied the Mark but not a third shard.
- No text after we've added a third shard.

If that's not doable, then just remove the text altogether and we'll have to remember when we've applied a Mark and not a third shard. But telling us we can on every item, whether we want a third effect or not, is just spamming us. And we sure as heck don't need to be told that we've applied it when there are three effects on the item.

[NoWorries]

Ah, nice catch. Do you know if it's just a tooltip error? Are they increasing attack/movement speed when worn?

Pick me, I know!

It is a text issue due to being a percentage value and is on my list of things to fix.

[mikarddo]

Decon is much smoother which was very much needed.
Converting essences works well. I had around 90k worth of the new essences after converting and it took maybe 15 mins. So while a bit boring it works well enough for my taste.

[BigErkyKid]

Some items I made for comparison:

These are level 30 flat bound gloves vs the same gloves with level 30(+4) bound:



Here are some unbound level 30(+4) items--there's no practical difference between bound and unbound items now, just the crafting level and mats you need to make them. Also insightful stats are in the recipes you can apply to items but the actual recipes to make the insightful stat shards have not yet been implemented.

This is absurd. Cannith crafting is a complete grind, of the worst kind. Staying in front of an interface clicking away stupid buttons is grindy even for a grindy game like DDO. FFS you are not even playing the game!

I am sorry, I know that people with maxxed crafters are going to be happy, but this is an absurd level of power.

DEX 15 - 7 Insight DEX - 60 HAMP is at most what LGS should have offered, not cannith crafting. What are the odds of pulling that from a chest?

This system completely invalidates random loot in the worse possible way. Sure, there is a tiny possibility that you loot something better from a maxx level chest, but that possibility is so remote that it is not even relevant.


We complained that random loot was too powerful (and it was), and the answer is to offer random loot on steroids. People will use a few raid items for unique bonuses and the rest is going to be cannith crafting. Which means what, collecting stupid ingredients from low level quests and rewards, spending money in crafting boosters and clicking away? Is that the way to acquire BiS loot right now in DDO?

Why don't you guys chain the players to a wheel and make us produce electricity for the servers, while we are at it?

[Sierim]

The option to exchange 10 greater essences is not working, although the other ones (1, 100, 500, 1000) all are.

Actually, I was able to use the 10 option on Greater Divine Essences and it made 45 of my essences disappear somehow--I had 56 and after I hit trade on 10 essences I had . . . 1. Oh, wait, I see now, it's because the trade is taking 55 of them for some reason even though it says it should be 10.



It does, however, only GIVE you 10 essences when you trade.

In a similar vein, converting lesser essences into Cannith Essences in groups of 1000 gives a better return on investment than other recipes (1000->250, or 4->1, instead of the 5->1 described in others).

[PsychoBlonde]

I am sorry, I know that people with maxxed crafters are going to be happy, but this is an absurd level of power.

When this hits, NOBODY will actually HAVE a maxxed character. They will be looking at months, possibly a full year or more of NEW grind to FINALLY get to the point of being able to make stuff that's ALMOST as good as EXISTING RANDOM GEAR.

It has advantages, certainly--you can pick exactly what you want. But it's NOT cheap.

And you don't grind crafting levels by sitting still pushing a button. 95% of the time investment involves doing quests and looting chests (and, now, collectibles)--and they've actually streamlined the button-pushing section of the process ENORMOUSLY.

Keep in mind that to make those 30(+4) items, I had to use like 170,000 essences and buy something like 70 random collectibles boxes.

It's strong, but "absurd" is over the top. Sorry, it's a bit weird to simultaneously complain that it's TOO strong AND that there's too much grind to GET it. And it's a completely optional system that fully invites people who don't care to do the button pushing to mooch off people who do. WIN!

[mikarddo]

With Purified Eberron Dragonshard Fragments being used in large numbers in most/all higher level recipes I think we will need a way to trade these. Otherwise crafting for friends will suffer as they cannot supply the parts to the crafter.

Deconning seems to return ~35 essences on average for ML30 items which seems fine to me. I didnt check for lower ML items though.

As far as I am corcerned its looking good. The major remaining unknown is drop rates on the collectibles though which could still break the system if those are too rare.

[PsychoBlonde]

With Purified Eberron Dragonshard Fragments being used in large numbers in most/all higher level recipes I think we will need a way to trade these. Otherwise crafting for friends will suffer as they cannot supply the parts to the crafter.

Small, Medium, and Large Eberron Dragonshards can be traded and turned into Purified Dragonshards. And with people looting collectibles more scrupulously, the numbers of these floating around the game should also increase. But, yeah, it'd be nice if there was at least one other unbound thing of some kind for this part.

[mikarddo]

Small, Medium, and Large Eberron Dragonshards can be traded and turned into Purified Dragonshards. And with people looting collectibles more scrupulously, the numbers of these floating around the game should also increase. But, yeah, it'd be nice if there was at least one other unbound thing of some kind for this part.

I see Tokens of the Twelve as the main source of Purified though and those dont trade, nor should they. But if friends ask me to craft something for them that uses say 5k essences, some collectibles and 50 purified I can tell them to supply the essences and collectibles but not the purified unless there is a reasonable way to farm the small/medium/large dragonshards that I am unaware off.

Ofcourse, it might be intentional that those are the (very) limiting factor, in particular in crafting for friends/others because the crafter has to supply most himself.

[mikarddo]

For the record. My crafter was level ~250 including artificer and feat bonus levels.
I had 94k essences which took maybe 20 mins to convert (easy enough).
I then spent maybe 20 mins trying deconning (much improved) and figuring the system out (well laid out).

Finally, I crafted for maybe 15 mins with a +10% xp pot and +35% success boosters before remembering the +100% xp pot and crafting with that for maybe another 10 mins. I was semi-efficient but definitely with room for improvement.

That left me with 10k essences, a bunch of ML shards and level 338. I didnt craft any effects as I lacked the Puried needed in sufficient numbers.

I reckon any grind will come from collectibles and Purified.

[mikarddo]

A minor bug report. A few times a 0% chance recipe showed up on top when sorting by xp - with around 1.3mill xp yield. I wasnt able to attempt the combine though even with success boosters

[slarden]

This is absurd. Cannith crafting is a complete grind, of the worst kind. Staying in front of an interface clicking away stupid buttons is grindy even for a grindy game like DDO. FFS you are not even playing the game!

I am sorry, I know that people with maxxed crafters are going to be happy, but this is an absurd level of power.

What I found with this system is that leveling is reasonably fast. Set aside some essences for actual crafting and use the rest for leveling. I would not call that a grind in my opinion unless someone has not been picking up essenses in chests the past few years. I see alot of wasted essences in chests all the time...

Bonus effects on BTA items cost 5 purified dragonshards which is quite pricey. This will limit what you can do for sure and if anything that price may need to drop a little from 5 to 2 for bta. Collectibles will be a challenge esp for people that have been etr'ing more than heroic tr'ig the past few years since most of the good xp epic quests don't drop much in terms of collectibles. Also the new collectible's means everyone has to start collecting. That's fine - there has to be some new costs.

Unbound is where any potential issue is. The cost on unbound items needs to be high enough so random loot still has a place. It is. If people want me to craft for them they will need to pony up essences, collectibles and tomes/shards so I can make the item. I won't have enough mats to make everything I want let alone craft for others. The price needs to be high on unbound but I have no real opinion on whether the current unbound prices are too high - others seem to think so. I didn't get high enough level to see all the bonus effect costs so no sticker shock yet.

Lastly, on any DC character I will prefer random loot and the higher values. This means my necromancer, illusionist and assassin for example. 2-3 DC is a big deal for those builds.

[BigErkyKid]

When this hits, NOBODY will actually HAVE a maxxed character. They will be looking at months, possibly a full year or more of NEW grind to FINALLY get to the point of being able to make stuff that's ALMOST as good as EXISTING RANDOM GEAR.

It has advantages, certainly--you can pick exactly what you want. But it's NOT cheap.

And you don't grind crafting levels by sitting still pushing a button. 95% of the time investment involves doing quests and looting chests (and, now, collectibles)--and they've actually streamlined the button-pushing section of the process ENORMOUSLY.

Keep in mind that to make those 30(+4) items, I had to use like 170,000 essences and buy something like 70 random collectibles boxes.

It's strong, but "absurd" is over the top. Sorry, it's a bit weird to simultaneously complain that it's TOO strong AND that there's too much grind to GET it. And it's a completely optional system that fully invites people who don't care to do the button pushing to mooch off people who do. WIN!

Playing what quests? Last I checked a lot of the collectibles dropped in heroic quests.

Also, I think we come from fundamentally different places. You say this:

Sorry, it's a bit weird to simultaneously complain that it's TOO strong AND that there's too much grind to GET it

I don't like gating power behind grinds. It should be gated by difficulty and successfully, completing quests and raids that are hard to beat should give you power, not grinding necro 4 on heroic elite for some collectible rewards and drops.

The current items you can craft (and posted) are way better than 99% of the random loot. Maybe, in an legendary elite raid, with a jewel and in a bonus loot weekend you COULD get something better. But frankly, given loot ables, it is extremely unlikely to the point where no one sane would rely on it.

The system has become extremely strong. Some of this items are above raid loot (for example from DoJ). Yes, I understand that before it was very limited. But this system provides top tier loot simply by grinding. Part of the grinding will be simply clicking on that machine, the other hunting for collectibles in long forgotten places. Then you can always buy this purified eberron shards with real money.

So essentially this seems to consist on either grinding for crafter levels (the most boring thing ever) and grinding for mats (again, a lot of mats dropping in heroics), or speeding up the process by buying XP boosters and some components directly for cash. Because seriously, eberron fragments are a cash grab given the drop rate of tomes nowadays.

Given the power that it provides and the level of current quest and raid loot this is going to become a must for optimized toons. Not to speak of the power creep.

PS - Edited because I forgot the token trade in.

[BigErkyKid]

Bonus effects on BTA items cost 5 purified dragonshards which is quite pricey. .

Those shards are a cash grab. In good faith, how many ability tomes have dropped for you recently? Plus collectibles have never been balanced around difficulty (AFAIK), just rewarding playing all content. The new collectibles are likely to be balanced the same, but I'd like to hear some more about that.

The level of power is way higher than anyone can reasonably expect to get from a quest with rng. I don't know what they plan for new raids, but 15/7 stats plus another useful property is way better than most of the existing loot, except for very special properties.

Extremely heavy handed update, giving a lot of power to one of the most tedious activities in the game.

PS - Yes, you could use tokens of the 12, but again those are a grind and drop in quests that nowadays are particularly easy.

[Wizza]

Playing what quests? Last I checked a lot of the collectibles dropped in heroic quests.

Good point. Do collectables drop in Epic and Legendary quests AT ALL?

[mikarddo]

Good point. Do collectables drop in Epic and Legendary quests AT ALL?

From the OP

COLLECTIBLES:
Collectibles will be used in all crafting recipes. Many of the collectibles already exist, but some new collectibles have been added that appear in higher levels in both Eberron and the Forgotten Realms.