Update 32 on Lamannia: Cannith Crafting Preview

[slarden]

Well, I agree with what you've said here (admittedly I continue to chafe against the idea that CC shouldn't make the same power level as random loot, but since I think random loot's power level is too high in the first place overall I'm happy with the power level of CC if I take it in isolation, if you see what I mean). There's a few other things I'm not that happy with either, but they're also livable with for me.

My actual issue, i.e. 'I really think this is a problem' is not the power level or the expense. I'm fine with expensive. Its availability of just one ingredient - specifically PEBS for making unbound items for others.


Right now on Lam, to get a crafter to make you an item, you need to somehow pass them something that is almost always bound (or possibly they're always bound I can't remember - its been a while since I turned in any small/medium/large eberron fragments because they're so rare that I still haven't replenished any stocks of those since turning in the small stacks I'd built up since I started in 2009). The game has no way for them to do that, except in quest chests.

Heroic players can't run epic to get tokens of the 12. They can't even enter the quests and pike at the start so as to pass me their tokens so I can trade in for PEBS and make them something!

I just don't follow the PEBS inclusion for unbound loot at all - at least, not if their availability and binding status is staying the same. The idea I've heard some people posit - that only people who've been through a TR or two should have any expectation of usefulness from CC unless they level it themselves - is mystifying to me. This doesn't motivate new players to engage with the community, it doesn't incentivise existing players to level crafting in order to benefit anyone but themselves - and even then only if you're willing to endure the inconvenience of character hopping and passing loot around the apparently fragile mailing system* to crunch because crafting will still be character specific... none of it adds up to a positive idea, to me.


If Turbine just went as far far as providing a guaranteed way to get heroic turn ins which could be passed to me in chests to then trade in then this issue for me would go in my 'can live with it' pile and I'd be back to being excited about the CC update for more than personal power reasons.

As with Tokens of the Twelve, at least then we could quest together to get the thing the player needs so that I can be sure of being able to make them something at the end of that time.


*seriously, the new mailbox limits put in place to protect performance have meant that my crafter started bouncing mail to me the other day, and I'd only cleared out their mailbox the day before! I wasn't using him as a bank, I just only wanted to swap to crunch once that gaming session!

Agreed on PEB being unbound as its the only ingredient people can't pass to a crafter. Only way around it is to run quests and have them pass tokens or agree on AS price and put in ASAH but there is always a chance, however small, someone unintended grabs the item fast.

[Qhualor]

To me you are just coming across as someone that doesn't craft and has no intention of crafting. So you are arguing to reduce the benefits of a system you don't want to bother with.

Nothing is wrong with that, but it's easy to see it for what it is.

I actually have every intention to craft. I logged onto Lama Sunday to give it a try and when it comes back up again I will try again.

Where did I suggest reducing benefits of the system? I commented on the power of crafted gear vs named and random gear and I commented on a personal observation that players largely ignored collectibles for years.

[slarden]

I actually have every intention to craft. I logged onto Lama Sunday to give it a try and when it comes back up again I will try again.

Where did I suggest reducing benefits of the system? I commented on the power of crafted gear vs named and random gear and I commented on a personal observation that players largely ignored collectibles for years.

My apologies, I misunderstood.

Welcome to the dark side.

[UurlockYgmeov]

I actually have every intention to craft. I logged onto Lama Sunday to give it a try and when it comes back up again I will try again.

Where did I suggest reducing benefits of the system? I commented on the power of crafted gear vs named and random gear and I commented on a personal observation that players largely ignored collectibles for years.

sweet!

[Ballyspringer]

I like that it's a long grind to the top levels, and it seems that the top levels are indeed pretty much top

My only suggestion is why make TR almost (yes I know you can get around that) but almost required to get to that top level? Can we scrap the XP downgrade every time you make an item? Make the XP you get from crafting something only tied into your crafting level instead of level+how many times you made it? That was my only complaint with the current system (which I loved when it came out other than that).

[DYWYPI]

Although I would prefer the amount of Purified Eberron Dragonshard Fragments needed for some recipes was lowered; it wasn't surprising NoWorries decided to implement them in Bound for 'Insightful' effects. I don't have a major issue it was decided they'd be used - other than I'm concerned about the actual amounts required. :-/

I had figured out that they'd be used on 'Insightful' was high probability several weeks ago, and when referring to the Collectables and Raw Materials, since ML 20 no-longer held much significant importance for Cannith Crafting. I was also meaning it was ["purposely leaked information"] for both Purified Eberron Dragonshard Fragments and Collectables.

[...]Unsurprisingly you have hinted 'Eberron Dragonshards' will reappear as Cannith Crafting raw ingredients. The problem; isn't so much their rarity but the fact is, they tend to be used in several very good Trade-in options with 'Collector NPCs', which of course inflates their value on the Auction House even more...

However in contrast: Siberys Dragonshards; Flawed, Imperfect and Exceptional seem underutilised in Cannith Crafting. They're not in huge demand, so I suspect would be apt for "NoWorries Cannith Crafting" instead of extensive use of 'Eberron Dragonshards'.

Of course, if the "purposely leaked information", about [25] new Collectibles contain additional (previously unseen in DDO) Collectables of course Collectable Bags are going to be put under further strain. ...

OK, NoWorries surprise us if you plan on using any of the different forms of Siberys Dragonshards...? That I cannot as confidently predict with your Poker-hand since the raw ingredients are mostly Collectables (at this stage). Albeit if they [Siberys Dragonshards] aren't used then we'll be swimming. No, we'll be drowning in them, if we aren't already, and we'll have close to zero practical use for them other than to build mountains of Siberys Dragonshard Fragments to climb into our Airships. ;-)

When I enter a forest, I usually see the entire forest not just the trees I'm looking at in front of me, but cannot tell you any in-depth specific details about the trees closest to where I stand, i.e. I cannot tell you much of their appearance, for example the colour of the leaves or how many branches. Most people can see those trees closet and talk about them in detail but most likely cannot see the entire forest.

I've already noticed large shifting in the Auction House prices, i.e. inflation for list Collectables and reappearance of certain Unbound Crafting Shards rarely ever seen posted. That could be coincidence or panic but highly unlikely it's all just pure coincidence (due to the type of crafted shards, highly unlikely that part is coincidence).

Although I cannot say I'm ecstatic (disappointed would be more accurate) that 'Purified Eberron Dragonshards' are required in such huge numbers for several reasons. I don't have major problems with them remaining BtA NoWorries; think I can understand some logical reasoning why you may want to still keep them BtA... Unless you haven't actually decided on their actual fate regarding binding status.

[lostgunman]

I just really hope that they lower the final cost in collectibles. It is just too extreme in a number of cases. 10 or even 20 of the commons is not a problem for 95% of players, but 10 uncommon ones or 10 rares is just CRAZY HIGH. 5 uncommon or even better 3 would be good...and no more than 1-3 rare.

[UurlockYgmeov]

now in CC.... use orange dragonshard frags.

[maddong]

I will have 250 crafting levels and have banked essences. I have 2500 astral shards from playing the exchange like the stock market in jan (it's dead now). So I will craft and plan on switching most of my gear to crafted after the update. I'm talking end game loot, I won't be crafting anything under level 34.

They either need to make separate legendary house cannith mark recipes to make end game items harder to triple slot OR buff the 39+ loot tables.

To get level 39-40 loot you have to:
1. Pay TP for a +2 jewel
2. Pay TP for an elixir
3. Run level 32 LE (unless on a loot weekend with a chest blesser)
4. Run on a +2 loot weekend or (chest blesser costing 1 feat/12 AP and a map... I've been using maps they go fast...)
5. Not get vendor trash
6. Not get a 2 slot instead of triple slot
7. Get 39-40 slots where it counts (not a 35/33/34 item for example since the levels are random)
8. Have 3 synergistic slots compatible with a gear layout

If it all doesn't fall into place then you are better off with crafted.

So they either need to make end game items harder to make (ie legendary mark in legendary chest) or buff level 39+ loot tables. As it is I'm just going to craft and forget wasting TP on jewels/elixirs.

[Evin_Drake]

After new Lammy build, still no Impact/Keen or Vamp shards... WAI or still incomplete?

[shawnvw]

I couldn't get into Lammania until 14 pages of these comments, so I'll just make a few observations that I hope haven't been done to death:

• Some shards can be added as either Prefix or Suffix? Sweet!
• We'll need a lot fewer Ingredients bags. Our crafters on each server will need more Collectible bags. Have the Devs thought about this?
• If you have craftable items now, be sure to look and see if you can still make the shards. The new versions of some effects will go away (vorpal? keen?), or be much harder to make. So keep the old versions as long as you can.
• Making arrows and bolts is now really easy - all you need are yellow Dragonshards (which I accumulate by the thousand) and Cannith essences. No additional collectables needed for each type. Cool!
• Here's a trick that applies to current crafting too: ranged weapon use the enhancement bonus of either the weapon or the ammo, whichever is higher. So if you have a +4 bow, don't bother crafting +2 or +3 arrows of fire or bane or anything: +1 works just as well.
• More importantly, this means you don't need your dedicated crafter to make ammo. +1's are easy.
• But if you want your DedCrafter to make +5 arrows for the +4 bow, go for it.

[shawnvw]

In Random Loot (maybe also in New Random Loot, IDK), you've consolidated Plant Bane, Animal Bane, and Fey Bane (if there was such a thing) into "Natural Bane". And rightly so; plant monsters and fey are rare.

Can you do the same with the corresponding shards?

Also, I don't know how everyone else managed to test the Crafting on Lammania; there were half a dozen recipes I couldn't even try because I didn't have enough of some kind of collectable. And I didn't have enough of the correct items to disjoin. And because this is Lammania, I couldn't buy them on the Auction House or at Vendors. (Except for plain weapons or armor, but not jewelry or clothing).

Can you have Sir Pointsalot give out some of this stuff so we can test it?

[slarden]

In Random Loot (maybe also in New Random Loot, IDK), you've consolidated Plant Bane, Animal Bane, and Fey Bane (if there was such a thing) into "Natural Bane". And rightly so; plant monsters and fey are rare.

Can you do the same with the corresponding shards?

Also, I don't know how everyone else managed to test the Crafting on Lammania; there were half a dozen recipes I couldn't even try because I didn't have enough of some kind of collectable. And I didn't have enough of the correct items to disjoin. And because this is Lammania, I couldn't buy them on the Auction House or at Vendors. (Except for plain weapons or armor, but not jewelry or clothing).

Can you have Sir Pointsalot give out some of this stuff so we can test it?

I haven't been on yet this release but last release you can get crates of collectibles in the store on Lam to try out the new recipes

[Hulligan]

I could finally test the new CC on Lamaland today (missed the last weekend - and let me note here, that Lama should remain online for a longer duration if you want to let more ppl do testing).

I have mixed feelings... I took my capped (crafting-wise) toon to Lamaland with a bunch of essences in her Huge collecible bag. Took my time to convert all the essences to new ones... Yes it needs time. A LOT of time.T
I was wondering why there isn't a simple "convert all essences" button since the old ones will be unusable anyway. Why do I need to sit there for an hour to do ALL the converting for just one character ?
Break down 4988 greater essences : 4x 1000, 1x500, 4x,100, 3x10, 8x1 ... Why can I just push the button a "convert all" ? This is frustrating, I have my fears in advance how will I do this for 4 toons and 6-7 bags of materials... It'll take one of my weekend just to exchange the essences.

Then I tried out a few formulae, then I started levelling from 260 (wanted to reach 340 or similiar to be able to craft end-gamer stuff). This is not possible at the moment. I mean, apart from Lamaland where you can get infinite crafting essences from the store, it's basicly impossible to reach crafting level 340 in due time. The essense cost is insane. 250+ for bound and 500+ for unbound PER shard. Really ? I ended up having 60K essences after trade-in and burst 35K essences for earning 7 levels of crafting (with 100% crafting xp pot from store). Thus you can achieve like level 275 with a full bag of essences. Tops.

Not to mention other ingredients, where sometimes the material cost is so high I'll double consider crafting something like False Life EVER, provided I have materials enough for 10 likely shards then it's off. And I am collecting mats for 7 years or so.

Briefly:

- Create the "convert all essences" button. Cleaner and easier way then current system on Lama.

- Lessen the cost of essences in new crafting, especially unbound shourd. They cost A LOT.

- Eliminate, or just slow then the "less XP for you, because of crafting" mechanism. It's ok, that I get less to zero XP when I craft below my crafting level, but until the target shard to be crafter is at least the same level as my crafting level, please stop penelazing the xp. There's literally NOTHING to craft, but ML 26-27-28 etc shards to craft... What if I run out of xp? I'm screwed for life or what ?

- Lessen the spec/rare ingredient requirement. For the newly intruduced mats they have to be found/farmed first let alone being crafted in huge numbers and I doubt it would change for a very long time.

Conclusion: I know it's Lamannia and I hope each and every feedback is read/considered but I know If the revised CC system remains as is, it'll be only a few to craft high-end shard, strictly bound and it won't be everyday thing to craft. Also many will just get stucked around level 280-300. Or even before.

Conclusion 2: I like the very idea how all the crafting system is being consolidated (one type of crafting essence and the way prefix and suffix is done) and some more which I'll not repeat, since all there is in the release notes. I like the whole as it is. Wish I'd be able to create top gear, any time soon this update launches since I have three maxed out toons who would benifit from CC crafted items.

[FalexiaSutter]

Collectibles will be used in all crafting recipes

WHAT!!!????

Ahem... Okay outburst over. But seriously, ***? Is there a change I don't know about to collectibles and bag space?

Here's my thoughts on this:
We can carry a tiny and medium collectible bag for a total of 42 unique collectibles.
There are already like >100 different types of collectibles. How exactly are we supposed to craft anything if we need collectibles for everything? And they are adding even more collectibles for crafting? I know I don't have the bag space to carry 100+ collectibles around for crafting purposes. I really don't get it. Can someone please explain how this could possibly work???

[dunklezhan]

WHAT!!!????

Ahem... Okay outburst over. But seriously, ***? Is there a change I don't know about to collectibles and bag space?

Here's my thoughts on this:
We can carry a tiny and medium collectible bag for a total of 42 unique collectibles.
There are already like >100 different types of collectibles. How exactly are we supposed to craft anything if we need collectibles for everything? And they are adding even more collectibles for crafting? I know I don't have the bag space to carry 100+ collectibles around for crafting purposes. I really don't get it. Can someone please explain how this could possibly work???

Don't know how to tell you this, because I know its annoying as all heck but... it works by folk buying the shared bank, shared crafting bank, and bags from the store. If you're serious about crafting, as now, you'll need to do those things.

[FalexiaSutter]

Don't know how to tell you this, because I know its annoying as all heck but... it works by folk buying the shared bank, shared crafting bank, and bags from the store. If you're serious about crafting, as now, you'll need to do those things.

Okay, guess I just won't use this feature than. Thanks for the info!

[slarden]

Okay, guess I just won't use this feature than. Thanks for the info!

You can free up bag space by selling those collectables and essences if you won't be crafting.

[DYWYPI]

That's not too surprising Siberys Dragonshard Fragments were chosen for throwaway ammunition. It would have been a fairly large shock, if they'd have been completely removed from the Cannith Crafting raw materials lists.


NoWorries, can you confirm whether or not with reference to our current progress concerning Non-Scaling Shards http://ddowiki.com/page/Talk:Cannith...scaling_shards if those listed non-scaling Shards are supposed to enforce an ML upon an item?

Even though I was under the impression it is the role of the 'Shard of Minimum Level: [X]'.

I've probably completely misunderstood and somebody will most likely helpfully answer and correct me (I'm not a build, or loot fanatic) but assuming that a ML is meant to be applied via those "non-scaling" shards...

Would it be correct that an "Underwater Action" (UwA) item would raise the item's Absolute minimum level to equip to: ML 6, because that seems rather high! Considering that currently 'the Grotto' offers a clicky Ring of Mass Waterbreathing. Plus Water Breathing scrolls are ML 3 and currently with live Cannith Crafting Underwater Action items can be crafted: ML 3.

Then you have island wilderness areas like; Three-Barrel Cove that has submerged quest door locations and tricky underwater explorer points (where you can drown or get lost) that are meant for Level 3+ characters to explore.

Or can you craft a "ML1 Underwater Action" item but if you add further effects those raise ML +6, etc., if none of the above then obviously I've fully misunderstood. Alas, if its meant to be that a Crafted UwA item is ML6 to equip, please reconsider changing it back to ML3 as its mostly an item used in submerged exploring - without drowning if you currently breath - rather boosting your skills or for direct combat reasons, etc.

[ramzes7asit4]

Even though I was under the impression it is the role of the 'Shard of Minimum Level: [X]'.

I've probably completely misunderstood and somebody will most likely helpfully answer and correct me (I'm not a build, or loot fanatic) but assuming that a ML is meant to be applied via those "non-scaling" shards...

Would it be correct that an "Underwater Action" (UwA) item would raise the item's Absolute minimum level to equip to: ML 6, because that seems rather high! Considering that currently 'the Grotto' offers a clicky Ring of Mass Waterbreathing. Plus Water Breathing scrolls are ML 3 and currently with live Cannith Crafting Underwater Action items can be crafted: ML 3.

Some example:
I think something broken.