How many past lives should be required?

[Pyed-Pyper]

No, you are thinking of Hypnotic Pattern. Hypnotism is a 1st level spell (also an easy SLA to pick up for a wizard) that doesn't have the annoying screen clutter like Hypnotic Pattern.

It's cheap, it casts very fast, it's AOE, and then you follow it immediately with a Mass Hold. +3 to your Mass Hold DCs every time.

There's more to this game than just grinding out as many past-lives as you can.

Indeed, I was thinking about hypnotic pattern. That said, I was hesitant to respond to your attention of this thread. In past threads, such as some of those in the OP, your contributions to the topic at hand were, in my opinion, unhelpful. I see now that my concern was justified.

[Pyed-Pyper]

Here is a DC 89/90 and spell pen 60 illusionist build with U32. This doesn't include the new crafting just the new rune arm and ring for spell pen primarily:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5853817

For a 2nd lifer with 1 past life wizard this gives you an 89 DC and 60 spell pen + ruin, greater ruin, arcane pulse and hellball for some dps. Or drop greater Ruin for 90.

But to answer your question the past lifes are huge. Higher DC, spell pen, prr, hp...

The nice thing about illusionist is you can be le raid capable (a little squishy and slightly sub par dc, spell pen and makes lofty suggestions like +7 int tome which realistically means ddo store) immediately as a first-lifer and then tr for improvements without changing your build.

If someone is unwilling to get an past lifes - even easy iconic deep gnome past lifes then caster probably isnt' right build.

I am confused by your answer. Is it, "1 PL plus a bunch of gear that isn't available yet", or is it, "don't bother with DC caster if you don't want to grind out the [some large number of] past lives"?

That said, good job on the two builds you posted. You provide two recipes for success with wizard class. Unfortunately you also do a good job of showcasing P2W while at the same time highlighting real lack of DC casting available to a DC build - four epic feats are 'damage spells'. Plus your build includes a rather extensive epic history. Sure that would likely come with grinding out the gear for the build, but it is not what I would characterize as "1 PL". Please note I am not criticizing you or the builds, but the deplorable state of game balance.

[SlashbackWarrior]

I am confused by your answer. Is it, "1 PL plus a bunch of gear that isn't available yet", or is it, "don't bother with DC caster if you don't want to grind out the [some large number of] past lives"? Snip... I am not criticizing you or the builds, but the deplorable state of game balance.

Well, um yes to play top notch difficulties requires some effort and time invested. And posters provided how to get good results with least amount of Past lifes invested. Without U32 gear you will end up with 58 instead of 60 that is acceptable level even for LE. If you dont want grind past lifes - you will need to get some gear and make build sacrifices, but still will achieve your goal. If you dont want spend your time on either - you can play easier difficulty, or pick build that dont require past lifes - shiradi. Too many people think everything must be handed to them on a golden plate. If one want be better or best, one should put some effort, just like in real life. This is online MMORPG it will always be P2W because people need sell their content to get paid and keep game going.

[Pyed-Pyper]

Well, um yes to play top notch difficulties requires some effort and time invested. And posters provided how to get good results with least amount of Past lifes invested. Without U32 gear you will end up with 58 instead of 60 that is acceptable level even for LE. If you dont want grind past lifes - you will need to get some gear and make build sacrifices, but still will achieve your goal. If you dont want spend your time on either - you can play easier difficulty, or pick build that dont require past lifes - shiradi. Too many people think everything must be handed to them on a golden plate. If one want be better or best, one should put some effort, just like in real life. This is online MMORPG it will always be P2W because people need sell their content to get paid and keep game going.

Would you rephrase your answer in the form of an integer?

[Enoach]

Would you rephrase your answer in the form of an integer?

I think what you are looking for is:

Zero (0) Lives plus lots of gear and a narrower choice of Enhancements/Feats/Epic Destinies - Much of which will take you time

One (1) or More is less dependent on gear, and for each appropriate life a wider choice of Enhancements/Feats/Epic Destinies - Much of which will take you time

The difference is which will take "you" (Player) not only more time to do, but also which do they find to be more enjoyable experience.

In all cases presented you can be a caster in LE content with no past lives, but you have more options for each applicable Past Life you have.

I have been around a long time and I found Past Lives are much easier to achieve (and fun for me) then trying to put together the best gear. I also don't like having to wear the same gear all the time. It is nice to be able to use different gear to better match the content I'm running - But I'm one that has different Armors/Shields for my Tank build depending on what I'm running.

[Thrudh]

Indeed, I was thinking about hypnotic pattern. That said, I was hesitant to respond to your attention of this thread. In past threads, such as some of those in the OP, your contributions to the topic at hand were, in my opinion, unhelpful. I see now that my concern was justified.

So you learned something from my post, but you feel justified in thinking my posts are unhelpful.

Okay... you're welcome, I guess.

[Thrudh]

The general consensus here is that that past-lives have very little to do with DC casting. Only a few are useful at all, and are not required to achieve good enough numbers.

Spell Pen is affected more by past-lives, but even then, 3 wizard past lives gets you most of the benefits...

My DC caster does just fine with 1 bard past-life (+1 to enchant DCs), and 3 wizard past lives (+6 spell pen, +1 to all DCs).

If you do want to play the very highest content, you will need good gear... Past lives are not the performance bottleneck here.

Good luck to you.

[Mr_Helmet]

Spell Pen is affected more by past-lives, but even then, 3 wizard past lives gets you most of the benefits...

At this current moment in time, you need all the PLs and feats to be an effective DC caster in EE/LE.

This changes Tuesday.

[Enoach]

At this current moment in time, you need all the PLs and feats to be an effective DC caster in EE/LE.

This changes Tuesday.

I will disagree with EE content, but on LE content this is somewhat true if you only consider the mobs with Spell Resistance. Such as most mobs in Shroud and Drow in Tempest Spine, but the Spell Pen requirements for the rest are not as high.

For the times when Spell Pen is too high for getting more hits than misses there is still the other DC spells that don't require an Spell Pen Check. So if you limit what effective means you can get some truth here, but if you actually use more spells and for a wizard switch to the most effective for the area, then you may find you are still effective as a DC caster.

[Thrudh]

At this current moment in time, you need all the PLs and feats to be an effective DC caster in EE/LE.

This changes Tuesday.

What do you mean by "all the PLs"? You mean 3 more FvS past lives for +3 more Spell Pen?

Because that's about it. Heroic past lives barely affect DC casting, and epic past lives don't affect it at all.

Gear is far more important than past lives.

[noinfo]

Some context:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...s-CR55-Kobolds
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...isit+caster+dc
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...Damage-in-Epic
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...sit+dc+casting
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...88#post5845788
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...or-Pale-Master

More context:
triple heroic completionist, triple iconic completionist, double epic completionist (just a few more eR's for triple), very well geared.

While doing my Deep Gnome lives as Wizard, I began to think again about how DC casting was such a frustrating waste of time. I wondered what I was doing incorrectly (see above). What I would really like to know from one of the developers is, how many past lives should be required to play a DC wizard. Answers for other classes (aside from Warlock) would be interesting as well.

It should be 0 but thats about as far away from what is currently is as possible.

[Blastyswa]

I noticed you didn't mention DoJ in your list of successes but you do list the Gauntlets.

Well the successes were listing raids that I commonly go #1 on kills in, not raids that I can complete. DoJ largely took carrying (Although I got passed the Gauntlets after 5 runs, so didn't have to go through 20 completions) which holds true for any instakiller in that raid, because so many of the mobs are immune to instakills. Any raid with a high trash:red name ratio can easily be dominated by instakillers, while any raid with a low trash:red name ratio (DoJ, LHoX after the first 10 or so mobs) is going to be spent 5 stacking arcane pulse on rednames and jumping in circles. I have certainly gone #1 on kills in DoJ and LHoX on that character, but I also fairly consistently got beaten out by trees, furys, shiradis, or wolves, which doesn't happen in the other mentioned raids.

[Blastyswa]

In all cases presented you can be a caster in LE content with no past lives, but you have more options for each applicable Past Life you have.

Agreed, with the possible exception of LE Shroud, where fully maxing spell pen is absolutely necessary to be somewhat useful (I messed around with spell pen on my triple completionist one life to see how much I could get it too, at 65 I was occasionally seeing kobolds get the blue shield). The benefit of past lives isn't that they're necessary, or particularly overpowered, it's that they have no opportunity cost. A character with 3x wizard past lives has +6 spell pen, and the only cost of gaining that spell penetration was the time spent doing 3x wizard lives; you don't have to drop a feat, or drop some health, or trade out a gear slot, or twist a certain ability, you just gain that spell penetration. With everything but DC casters this is incredibly minor because you're gaining 10 HP or 1 damage or 1 intelligence skills with no opportunity cost, which usually translates to much less than a gear slot or a twist slot. With DC casters the full +9 spell penetration is equivalent to 3 twist slots, is a higher bonus than a spell penetration item, and is a higher bonus than the cost of using a non arcane epic destiny.

Personally though, I don't see the large spell penetration benefits of past lives as an issue; as I've seen from my own first life wizard, spell penetration can reach workable levels in most content without those past lives. With u32, which is introducing a large increase to DC's for casters with the set bonus as well as a +4 insightful spell penetration item, even more routes to get higher DC's/Spell Penetration will open up, and the more of those items and bonuses are added, the less of a necessity spell pen past lives will be.