LE, Melee Rangers, And Your Gear!

[commando4290]

For any target that is vulnerable to sneak attack, then golden guile wins always.

ToEE khopesh and vacuum is rubbish. Even with pendant.

if you're into trying to max dps on a ranger, then khopesh is the way to go.

Unless you can have pendant of warriors focus and still keep improved deception without gimping yourself then that would be your best setup. Otherwise stick to Vacuum & TF khopesh. And switch to x2 TF Slotted good for Shroud.

Other option is vacuum and balizarde.

Anyway here's a quick brunt smash Dps test. He doesn't have enough hp and I will do the giant in trackers trap at some point for a different scenario.

I rolled no 20's in that test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTkxT-dq41Q

[NaturalHazard]

Going dex based is the AC worth it as well as the reflex save?

theres many ways to up your str, titans grip, yes primal scream, which is also nice for your con as well being more of a squishy melee.

Theres less ways to pump your dex.

For me the selling point of pesh is Tring.

Its better on a fighter, barb or paladin build than scimitars, though it does have its good points they are not as good with those options.

[commando4290]

But what about 2d6 + armor piercing 7% vs 20 MP? Now it's hard to choose. You can totally use ToEE + LGS.

Looking at the armors, the TF gives ghostly and 2 more to saves (gem from a slaver item that gives 14 res would instead be used to put armor piercing 28%, since the ToEE armor already has res 12), while the ToEE gives 20% more fort, 30% absorption to something (may be useful for reaper) and perma blur.

You can wear whatever you want. It doesn't mean you're squeezing every bit of dps whilst keeping Great Survivability. Like I said. If you can fit Pendant of warrior's focus and Improved Deception then good. But your problem is that if you do that, then you can not use a 5 piece slave set which gives you:

+2 Artifact bonus to Strength and Dexterity
+4 Artifact bonus to Melee Power/Ranged Power
+4 Artifact bonus to Deadly

7 Doublestrike is just Not better than the above. There is no argument about it.

It is possible to have Pendant of Warrior's focus and Improved Deception. But then no 5 Piece Slaver's set.

With an STR build it's not feasible. If you go Pendant of Warrior's focus and Improved Deception AND 5 Piece set. You will actually lose dps and survivability because of the Craftable attributes that are not possible on Slave set. Simple.

If you are in Scion of the Ethereal Plane, it makes a lot more sense to wear ShadowScale (2d6 SA) Armor.

You can wear ToEE set (Armor + Khopesh) and LGS Vacuum with Pendant but you're missing some important damage.

That being Said, I have re-adjusted my gear on my ranger to fit a 5 Piece Slave set and Still make use of the Pendant of warrior's focus. (with this gear, you can switch to Pendant of warrior's focus for things that can not be Sneak Attacked aka Shroud. You could even use ToEE Armor and Khopesh with Vacuum in Shroud, but in other quests, its put aside) You can also Scroll True Seeing and cast the FOM Spell on a ranger.

Gear

Head - Legendary Executioner's Helm
Goggles - Cannith Crafted Goggles (Wisdom 15 - Melee Alacrity 15 - Insightful Seeker 7 - Green Slot)
Armor - Shadow Dragonhide Armor
Necklace - Epic Golden Guile
Trinket - Epic Litany of the Dead
Cloak - Cannith Crafted Cloak (Charisma 15 - Dodge 15 - Insightful PRR 18) *You can replace charisma 15 with Hide 22, but I got it covered*
Belt - Legendary Chains (Con 17 - Stunning 20 - Deception - Quality Con 4 - Green Slot)
Bracers - Legendary Shackles (Str 17 - Spell power Positive 185 - Skills +22 - Quality Str 4 - Green Slot)
Boots - Legendary Shackles *Boots* (Dex 17 - Armor Piercing 28 - Tendon Slice 14 - Quality Dex 4 - Green Slot)
Gloves - Cannith Crafted (Doublestrike 17 - Heal Amp 61 - Insightful Str 7 - Green Slot) *You can replace Insight Str with Insight Accuracy 11 if you're having problem to hit*
Ring 1 - Legendary Five Rings (+45 Sheltering - Resist 14 + UMD +7 +Quality PRR - Green Slot)
Ring 2 - Legendary Ring of Prowess


Quiver - Epic Quiver of Alacrity


Weapons

Legendary Greensteel Khopesh (Vacuum)
Thunderforged Khopesh (First Degree Burns | Dragon's Edge | Draconic Reinvigoration)

Armor Piercing 28 on boots for when using LGS Vacuum & Balizarde (Yes Balizarde is very good dps)

20 Melee Power ToEE is not better than 2d6 scaling with Melee power in my opinion, However with the Armor Piercing boots, it could possibly be more dps Considering +20 MP on similar amount of crits and Still getting 20% Vulnerability as well as 20% *Elemental* vulnerability and yes they both stack. I will need to test this on red named non DR mob (Giant, Hobgoblin, Orc, Troll etc)

If I had to wear a different armor, I would go with Celestial Avenger armor. But I don't see myself doing that anytime soon.

Other Weapons

ToEE Khopesh (Electric)
Thunderforged Khopesh (Mortal fear for non Legendary)
Balizarde rapier
Legendary Greensteel Khopesh (Min 2 for breaking DR)
Dual Celestia's (For other DR, Rust monsters, OOZE)

[akiraproject24]

You can wear whatever you want. It doesn't mean you're squeezing every bit of dps whilst keeping Great Survivability. Like I said. If you can fit Pendant of warrior's focus and Improved Deception then good. But your problem is that if you do that, then you can not use a 5 piece slave set which gives you:

+2 Artifact bonus to Strength and Dexterity
+4 Artifact bonus to Melee Power/Ranged Power
+4 Artifact bonus to Deadly

7 Doublestrike is just Not better than the above. There is no argument about it.

It is possible to have Pendant of Warrior's focus and Improved Deception. But then no 5 Piece Slaver's set.

With an STR build it's not feasible. If you go Pendant of Warrior's focus and Improved Deception AND 5 Piece set. You will actually lose dps and survivability because of the Craftable attributes that are not possible on Slave set. Simple.

If you are in Scion of the Ethereal Plane, it makes a lot more sense to wear ShadowScale (2d6 SA) Armor.

You can wear ToEE set (Armor + Khopesh) and LGS Vacuum with Pendant but you're missing some important damage.

That being Said, I have re-adjusted my gear on my ranger to fit a 5 Piece Slave set and Still make use of the Pendant of warrior's focus. (with this gear, you can switch to Pendant of warrior's focus for things that can not be Sneak Attacked aka Shroud. You could even use ToEE Armor and Khopesh with Vacuum in Shroud, but in other quests, its put aside) You can also Scroll True Seeing and cast the FOM Spell on a ranger.

Gear

Head - Legendary Executioner's Helm
Goggles - Cannith Crafted Goggles (Wisdom 15 - Melee Alacrity 15 - Insightful Seeker 7 - Green Slot)
Armor - Shadow Dragonhide Armor
Necklace - Epic Golden Guile
Trinket - Epic Litany of the Dead
Cloak - Cannith Crafted Cloak (Charisma 15 - Dodge 15 - Insightful PRR 18) *You can replace charisma 15 with Hide 22, but I got it covered*
Belt - Legendary Chains (Con 17 - Stunning 20 - Deception - Quality Con 4 - Green Slot)
Bracers - Legendary Shackles (Str 17 - Spell power Positive 185 - Skills +22 - Quality Str 4 - Green Slot)
Boots - Legendary Shackles *Boots* (Dex 17 - Armor Piercing 28 - Tendon Slice 14 - Quality Dex 4 - Green Slot)
Gloves - Cannith Crafted (Doublestrike 17 - Heal Amp 61 - Insightful Str 7 - Green Slot) *You can replace Insight Str with Insight Accuracy 11 if you're having problem to hit*
Ring 1 - Legendary Five Rings (+45 Sheltering - Resist 14 + UMD +7 +Quality PRR - Green Slot)
Ring 2 - Legendary Ring of Prowess


Quiver - Epic Quiver of Alacrity


Weapons

Legendary Greensteel Khopesh (Vacuum)
Thunderforged Khopesh (First Degree Burns | Dragon's Edge | Draconic Reinvigoration)

Armor Piercing 28 on boots for when using LGS Vacuum & Balizarde (Yes Balizarde is very good dps)

20 Melee Power ToEE is not better than 2d6 scaling with Melee power in my opinion, However with the Armor Piercing boots, it could possibly be more dps Considering +20 MP on similar amount of crits and Still getting 20% Vulnerability as well as 20% *Elemental* vulnerability and yes they both stack. I will need to test this on red named non DR mob (Giant, Hobgoblin, Orc, Troll etc)

If I had to wear a different armor, I would go with Celestial Avenger armor. But I don't see myself doing that anytime soon.

Other Weapons

ToEE Khopesh (Electric)
Thunderforged Khopesh (Mortal fear for non Legendary)
Balizarde rapier
Legendary Greensteel Khopesh (Min 2 for breaking DR)
Dual Celestia's (For other DR, Rust monsters, OOZE)

I'd have to double check but Im pretty positive I get sneak attack damage on the the shroud portals like pretty much every swing

[Thrudh]

+2 Artifact bonus to Strength and Dexterity
+4 Artifact bonus to Melee Power/Ranged Power
+4 Artifact bonus to Deadly

7 Doublestrike is just Not better than the above. There is no argument about it.

I would love to see the math on that...

If one is doing 500 points a swing, then 7% more doublestrike is worth 35 more damage.

+4 damage from deadly is obviously much less.

So the +4 bonus to melee power is the big difference here?

[Thrudh]

For someone who doesn't have the playtime to craft a full Slavers set or grind out raid gear, here's what I am using... (I do have a Cannith crafter character who can craft max gear)


Goggles: Cannith crafted: INT +15 - Spot +22 - Insightful INT +7 - Yellow slot (+2 Festive INT)
Head:Legendary Executioner's Helm: +17 Seeker - Relentless Fury (5% more DPS) - +4 Quality Combat Mastery - Insightful Deception (more sneak attack damage) - Green slot (+8 WIS)
Necklace: Epic Golden Guile: Ghostly - Improved Deception - Bluff +20 - Diplomacy +20 + 2 exceptional CHA skills - Yellow slot (Feather Falling)
Ring: Legengary Ring of Prowess: +8 Melee and Ranged Power - +14 Deadly - +28 Accuracy - Green slot (250 SP)
Armor: Leathers of the Celestial Sage: 159 Fortification - 15% Dodge - 27 Quality Potency - 38 Sheltering - 7 Parrying - Deathblock - Blurry - Green slot (+2 Max Dex from Armor) - Blue slot (+2 Luck)
Gloves: Cannith crafted: DEX +15 - Healing Amp 61 - Insightful Dex +7 - Green slot (+8 STR)
Wrist: Slaver crafted: CON +17 - 185 Spellpower Positive - Stunning +20 - Quality DEX +4
Cloak: Mysterious Cloak: 45 Heal Amp - 25 Insight MRR - Green slot (+8 Resistance) - Colorless slot (Globe +1 EXC to all stats) (or possibly LGS Cloak for hp bonus with boots)
Trinket: Cannith crafted: +12 Resistance - False Life 57 - Insightful Devotion 79
Belt: Cannith crafted: Doublestrike +17 - Natural Armor +15 - Insightful CON +7 - Green slot (+40 hps)
Boots: Legendary Green Steel: Tier 1 and Tier 2 for now - 192 Unconsciousness Range - 24 healing every 10 seconds
Ring: Cannith crafted: +15 CHA (or Heal Lore 23) - Protection +12 - Insightful PRR +18 - Green slot (+2 Insight CHA)

So this gets me:

Stats

• DEX - Main - Insight - Quality
• CON - Main - Insight
• INT - Main - Insight + Festive
• CHA - Main

Offense

• Seeker
• Doublestrike
• Stunning + Quality CM (missing Insight Stunning)
• Deadly
• Accuracy
• Armor Piercing (will use a TF weapon in off-hand for 35%)
• Improved Deception and Insightful Deception

Defense

• Dodge (missing insightful dodge - could put it on Cannith crafted boots)
• Two sources of Healing Amp, Devotion, Insight Devotion, Quality Potency
• False Life
• Resistance
• Sheltering + Insight PRR + Insight MRR
• Deathblock
• Fortification
• Parrying
• Blurry
• Ghostly

Might replace Cloak with a LGS Cloak someday for hp bonus with boots.

Ins. Devotion 79 is a lot of healing, but I could replace with Insightful Stunning +8 if needed... but my Dire Charges seem to work okay with +20 stunning item from Slavers crafted, and +4 Quality CM

Could possibly use Cannith crafted boots for Insightful CM +6 (in third slot).

Not many options for the other first two boot slots though - 1st slot (Dodge, some skills, Seeker, DEX) - 2nd slot (Sheltering, Parrying, STR, most guards) - All things I already have.

[Ellihor]

You can wear whatever you want. It doesn't mean you're squeezing every bit of dps whilst keeping Great Survivability. Like I said. If you can fit Pendant of warrior's focus and Improved Deception then good. But your problem is that if you do that, then you can not use a 5 piece slave set which gives you:

+2 Artifact bonus to Strength and Dexterity
+4 Artifact bonus to Melee Power/Ranged Power
+4 Artifact bonus to Deadly

7 Doublestrike is just Not better than the above. There is no argument about it.

I did not check the other items. I was using this thread only to help me build my gear for my flashy fighter, because it's about the same. I was just analizing this part. Anyways, you have to consider 3 piece set + pendant vs 5 piece, and not 0 piece + pendant vs 5 piece. So it's only 2 MP, 2 deadly and 2 dex/str vs 7 doublestrike + tatics and less grind. And maybe, it's possible to slot 5 piece and the pendant. While trying to gear my fighter I realized it would be impossible to fit everything I wanted: I had to give up either parrying, amplification, INT or give up a trinket. All melees have similiar issues and I won't break my head over ranger.

If you are in Scion of the Ethereal Plane, it makes a lot more sense to wear ShadowScale (2d6 SA) Armor.

No it does not. Totally the opposite. If you have a lot of SA it makes a lot more sense to get extra melee power. And if you have a lot of melee power it makes a lot more sense to get more SA.

You can wear ToEE set (Armor + Khopesh) and LGS Vacuum with Pendant but you're missing some important damage.

Such as?

20 Melee Power ToEE is not better than 2d6 scaling with Melee power in my opinion

Hmm let's do some math. 2d6 SA = 7 average. Let's say you have 180 melee power (I have no idea how much melee power rangers have atm, I took my fighter's value for blitz10 without opportunity and reduced 30, so it's probably less if you don't have arborea), that's rougly 29.4 points of damage per swing. 20 more melee power would be 24.6 only for the sneak attack (assuming 22 SA item + 6 iSA + 4d6 DWS + 120/3 hide = 82. That multiplied by 0.2 x 1.5 = 24.6), so it does only 5 points of SA than the TF armor, that means when you count the base damage bonus it's a wash.

You would have to have a lot more melee power than 180 to even think about breaking even, and we all know you can't get that on a ranger (in fact 180 is too generous if Ethereal Scion, and also was too generous putting only 120 hide, you probably have a lot more than that, so the ToEE would already win on SA without even looking into the base damage).

Also when you consider the burst from Sneak of Shadows the gap goes ever further favoring ToEE. If you are running in arborea things change, but I'd need your +to damage value to calc, but I belive ToEE still wins.

[Thrudh]

Anyways, you have to consider 3 piece set + pendant vs 5 piece, and not 0 piece + pendant vs 5 piece. So it's only 2 MP, 2 deadly and 2 dex/str vs 7 doublestrike + tatics and less grind.

Good point. I might try to squeeze in a 3 piece set, since I already have two (one crafted, one named) in my current gear-set. Five-piece set on one guy is never going to happen. I have 3-5 characters to outfit. By the time they all have 1-2 crafted items, there will probably be some new gear released that is even better.

[commando4290]

I did not check the other items. I was using this thread only to help me build my gear for my flashy fighter, because it's about the same. I was just analizing this part. Anyways, you have to consider 3 piece set + pendant vs 5 piece, and not 0 piece + pendant vs 5 piece. So it's only 2 MP, 2 deadly and 2 dex/str vs 7 doublestrike + tatics and less grind. And maybe, it's possible to slot 5 piece and the pendant. While trying to gear my fighter I realized it would be impossible to fit everything I wanted: I had to give up either parrying, amplification, INT or give up a trinket. All melees have similiar issues and I won't break my head over ranger.



No it does not. Totally the opposite. If you have a lot of SA it makes a lot more sense to get extra melee power. And if you have a lot of melee power it makes a lot more sense to get more SA.



Such as?



Hmm let's do some math. 2d6 SA = 7 average. Let's say you have 180 melee power (I have no idea how much melee power rangers have atm, I took my fighter's value for blitz10 without opportunity and reduced 30, so it's probably less if you don't have arborea), that's rougly 29.4 points of damage per swing. 20 more melee power would be 24.6 only for the sneak attack (assuming 22 SA item + 6 iSA + 4d6 DWS + 120/3 hide = 82. That multiplied by 0.2 x 1.5 = 24.6), so it does only 5 points of SA than the TF armor, that means when you count the base damage bonus it's a wash.

You would have to have a lot more melee power than 180 to even think about breaking even, and we all know you can't get that on a ranger (in fact 180 is too generous if Ethereal Scion, and also was too generous putting only 120 hide, you probably have a lot more than that, so the ToEE would already win on SA without even looking into the base damage).

Also when you consider the burst from Sneak of Shadows the gap goes ever further favoring ToEE. If you are running in arborea things change, but I'd need your +to damage value to calc, but I belive ToEE still wins.

After some testing. My ToEE set + Vacuum khopesh + 5 Piece set + Golden Guile do higher numbers, however its inconvenient for long dungeons for me because I don't get Draconic Reinvigoration. Having more boosts fits my play style a lot better, also results in faster runs, because of the boosts.

For DPS tests on NoN DR (giants,orcs,trolls) yes the ToEE set + Vacuum khopesh + 5 Piece set + Golden Guile will win.

For me, with the Piece set, if I swap out Pendant for Golden Guile, I notice a big difference in a lot lesser sneak Attacks. Unless I hit exposing strike which has cool down (not long but still, a lot more SA with Both Guile and Exposing Strike) SA 90% of the time.

I tried over 20 dps tests on Trackers Trap Giant with 250k ish hp with the following:

3 Pc Slavers Set + Pendant + Imp Deception ring (ToEE set + Vacuum)

AND

5 pc Slavers Set + Golden Guile (ToEE set + Vacuum)


The 5 Pc set with the Golden Guile won every single time, with Higher base numbers and more SA and quicker tests. It was noticeable in some comparisons, the 3pc with pendant and Imp Deception did between 1k to 3k less dps at some points.

Maths is cool. But this is a game. Not a Math's class, however I do appreciate your effort...you tried.

[Eth]

Save yourself the headache and preemptively settle for reaper meta and ditch the deception proc.

[Arlathen]

Save yourself the headache and preemptively settle for reaper meta and ditch the deception proc.

There was me thinking an initial Exposing Strike hit followed by having a double deception setup might be enough to turn the mob and keep it turned.

Or just bring a pocket Wiz Enchanter ofc

[Mr_Helmet]

There was me thinking an initial Exposing Strike hit followed by having a double deception setup might be enough to turn the mob and keep it turned.

You've never actually played a tempest have you

[commando4290]

like Eth said, save yourself the headache.

Roll a gnome barbarian.

[Eth]

There was me thinking an initial Exposing Strike hit followed by having a double deception setup might be enough to turn the mob and keep it turned.

Or just bring a pocket Wiz Enchanter ofc

The point is that the deception proc is only important for solo play (more so on high sneak damage characters). In party play it's not needed and when you require actual tank and spank it's just causing lots of problems.

[Eth]

like Eth said, save yourself the headache.

Roll a gnome barbarian.

Make sure to pick up Know the Ankles.

[blerkington]

This has been an interesting thread, so thanks to everyone who posted.

Regarding the best TF weapon properties, I'm really not convinced that draconic reinvigoration is a a better full-time choice for legendary content than mortal fear or other damaging Tier 3 effects.

Although there is a DPS loss from changing weapons while swinging, by not using mortal fear you're giving up around 36 points per swing. But for the 100 second period in combat after it procs, draconic reinvigoration isn't doing anything at all for your DPS.

How much damage are you losing from weapon swapping? Even if the DPS loss from switching while swinging at a target is significant, you could switch while moving between targets after getting your proc and only change back when the internal cooldown has expired.

Thanks.

[Mr_Helmet]

Regarding the best TF weapon properties, I'm really not convinced that draconic reinvigoration is a a better full-time choice for legendary content than mortal fear or other damaging Tier 3 effects.

You are just plain wrong.

[Arlathen]

The point is that the deception proc is only important for solo play (more so on high sneak damage characters).

I've been using Deception as a decent 1-on-1 form of Cc in EE and LE for quite some time, without resorting to Tactics. I was simply thinking of going overboard with the Deception procs to continue this in Reaper, but....

In party play it's not needed and when you require actual tank and spank it's just causing lots of problems.

This one comment blows all that out of the water anyway. Your absolutely right, and if Reaper means effective Tank 'n Spank, then right now I'm thinking it will be a return to FotW destiny for auto-CC adrenaline TWFing.

After all, my current DC destiny use will largely go out of the water, as two of my favourite things in it (heal on kill, heal over time) will be redundant in Reaper. Be better off in Shadowdancer for the dodge clicky.

[Arlathen]

This has been an interesting thread, so thanks to everyone who posted.

Regarding the best TF weapon properties, I'm really not convinced that draconic reinvigoration is a a better full-time choice for legendary content than mortal fear or other damaging Tier 3 effects.

Although there is a DPS loss from changing weapons while swinging, by not using mortal fear you're giving up around 36 points per swing. But for the 100 second period in combat after it procs, draconic reinvigoration isn't doing anything at all for your DPS.

How much damage are you losing from weapon swapping? Even if the DPS loss from switching while swinging at a target is significant, you could switch while moving between targets after getting your proc and only change back when the internal cooldown has expired.

Thanks.

36pts of non-crittable, non-scaling damage isn't that much to write home about if your going to great lengths to build a T3 TF. Under the right build where the extra action boost gives you +30% Attack Speed and +20% Damage for 20s, that might likely favour Draconic Reinvigoration.

But don't quote me on that

[Eth]

This has been an interesting thread, so thanks to everyone who posted.

Regarding the best TF weapon properties, I'm really not convinced that draconic reinvigoration is a a better full-time choice for legendary content than mortal fear or other damaging Tier 3 effects.

Although there is a DPS loss from changing weapons while swinging, by not using mortal fear you're giving up around 36 points per swing. But for the 100 second period in combat after it procs, draconic reinvigoration isn't doing anything at all for your DPS.

How much damage are you losing from weapon swapping? Even if the DPS loss from switching while swinging at a target is significant, you could switch while moving between targets after getting your proc and only change back when the internal cooldown has expired.

Thanks.

I played like that in the past, but ultimately went lazy and just wear reinvigoration full time now. Found keeping track of it more of a distraction, than the bit extra damage is worth, and sometimes just forget about it and then you end up low on boosts.

If you can manage it and can afford two tier3 TF, sure, why not.