EDIT (3/17/19): The recent Eldritch Knight pass has finally made pure or mostly-pure wizard melee builds viable. Meanwhile the Knight's Training feat makes a bunch of 1H weapons a viable alternative to khopeshes. So time to dust off this thread and post some new builds.
Pure wizard (requires drow, Harper tree, and +1 DEX tome):
The main advantage to pure wizard is the Eldritch Knight capstone which has some nice DPS bonuses. The main downside is your BAB is too low to take Greater SWF in heroics, so you have to give up an epic feat slot to take it.Code:Drow Bladesinger Wizard 20 True Neutral Drow Stats 28pt Tome Level Up ---- ---- -------- Strength 8 4: INT Dexterity 12 +1 8: INT Constitution 14 12: INT Intelligence 20 16: INT Wisdom 8 20: INT Charisma 10 24: INT 28: INT Skills 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 ------------------------------------------------------------ Concent 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23 Repair 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 5 1 5 1 1 23 Spellcr 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23 Heal 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11 Search 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11 Spot 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11 UMD 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11 Balance 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 10 Tumble 1 1 ------------------------------------------------------------ 28 7 7 7 7 7 7 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 9 9 9 9 9 Feats 1 : Single Weapon Fighting 1 Wizard : Extend Spell 3 : Precision 5 Wizard : Quicken Spell 6 : Insightful Reflexes 9 : Knight's Training 10 Wizard : Maximize Spell 12 : Improved Single Weapon Fighting 15 : Spell Penetration OR Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy 15 Wizard : Spell Focus: Necromancy 18 : Improved Critical: Slashing OR Bludgeoning 20 Wizard : Heighten Spell 21 Epic : Greater Single Weapon Fighting 24 Epic : Master of: the Dead 26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting OR Perfect Single Weapon Fighting 27 Epic : Ruin OR Greater Spell Penetration OR Overwhelming Critical 28 Destiny: Hellball OR Perfect Single Weapon Fighting 29 Destiny: Arcane Warrior OR Dire Charge 30 Epic : Greater Ruin OR Epic Spell Penetration OR Epic Damage Reduction 30 Legend : Scion of: Shadowfell Enhancements (80 AP) Eldritch Knight (Wizard) (42 AP)Pale Master (23 AP)
- Eldritch Strike, Spellsword, Imbue the Blade, Subtle Force, Subtle Force II, Eldritch Blade
- Improved Mage Armor III, Arcane Siphon I
- Improved Shield III, Mystic Wards III, Spellpower Boost III
- Arcane Barrier, Synergetic Magic
- Knight's Transformation, Orb Saves III, Force's Point, Armored Arcana
- Improved Knight's Transformation, Knight's Controller, Force's Edge, Radiant Forcefield, Eldritch Tempest III
Harper Agent (12 AP)
- Dark Reaping, Zombie Form, Vampire Form, Wraith Form
- Spell Critical, Negative Energy Conduit III
- Spell Critical, Bone Armor III
- Cloak of Night III, Spell Critical, Intelligence
- Spell Critical
Archmage (3 AP)
- Agent of Good I, Intelligence
- Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
- Know the Angles III
- Strategic Combat
- Chill Touch
- Spell Critical
Now let's look at wiz 18 / barb 1 / ftr 1:
The barbarian splash gets you +10% run speed and medium armor proficiencies. At lower levels this lets you equip armor and invest in drow Arcane Fluidity earlier than if you had to spend APs in EK. E.g., farm yourself a ML:5 version of the Only Exception which has only 10% ASF and invest 2 APs into Arcane Fluidity.Code:Drow Bladesinger Mk II 18/1/1 Wizard/Barbarian/Fighter True Neutral Drow Level Order 1. Barbarian 6. Wizard 11. Wizard 16. Wizard 2. Wizard 7. Wizard 12. Wizard 17. Wizard 3. Wizard 8. Wizard 13. Wizard 18. Wizard 4. Wizard 9. Wizard 14. Wizard 19. Wizard 5. Wizard 10. Wizard 15. Wizard 20. Fighter Stats 28pt Tome Level Up ---- ---- -------- Strength 8 4: INT Dexterity 12 +1 8: INT Constitution 14 12: INT Intelligence 20 16: INT Wisdom 8 20: INT Charisma 10 24: INT 28: INT Skills B W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W F 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 ------------------------------------------------------------ Concent 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 1 2 1 23 Spellcr 2 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 1 1 23 Perform 1 1 1 2 2 2 1 1 11 Heal 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11 Search 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11 Spot 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11 UMD 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11 Balance 2 1 1 1 1 1 7 Swim 4 1 5 Repair 1 1 2 Jump 2 2 Tumble 1 1 ------------------------------------------------------------ 36 7 7 7 7 7 7 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 9 9 9 9 9 Feats 1 : Single Weapon Fighting 2 Wizard : Extend Spell 3 : Precision 6 : Insightful Reflexes 6 Wizard : Quicken Spell 9 : Knight's Training 11 Wizard : Maximize Spell 12 : Improved Single Weapon Fighting 15 : Improved Critical: Slashing OR Bludgeoning 16 Wizard : Spell Focus: Evocation 18 : Heighten Spell 20 Fighter: Greater Single Weapon Fighting 21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical 24 Epic : Burst of Glacial Wrath 26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting OR Perfect Single Weapon Fighting 27 Epic : Master of: the Dead 28 Destiny: Hellball OR Perfect Single Weapon Fighting 29 Destiny: Arcane Warrior OR Dire Charge 30 Epic : Epic Damage Reduction 30 Legend : Scion of: Plane of Air OR Shadowfell Enhancements (80 AP) Eldritch Knight (Wizard) (41 AP)Pale Master (21 AP)
- Eldritch Strike, Spellsword, Imbue the Blade, Subtle Force, Subtle Force II
- Improved Mage Armor III, Arcane Siphon I
- Improved Shield III, Mystic Wards III, Spellpower Boost III
- Arcane Barrier, Synergetic Magic
- Knight's Transformation, Orb Saves III, Force's Point, Armored Arcana
- Improved Knight's Transformation, Knight's Striker, Force's Edge, Radiant Forcefield, Eldritch Tempest III
Harper Agent (12 AP)
- Dark Reaping, Zombie Form, Vampire Form, Wraith Form
- Spell Critical, Negative Energy Conduit III
- Spell Critical, Bone Armor III
- Cloak of Night III, Spell Critical, Intelligence
Kensei (6 AP)
- Agent of Good I, Intelligence
- Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
- Know the Angles III
- Strategic Combat
- Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades
- Extra Action Boost I, Haste Boost III
The fighter splash gets you BAB 11 at level 20 so you can take GSWF, effectively trading your level 20 wizard feat so it's a wash. The advantage is not having to "waste" an epic feat slot on GSWF so you can spend them all on epic-only feats. For variety's sake, I invest in Evocation bonuses rather than Necromancy, which in turn leads to me picking up Burst of Glacial Wrath. The downside is my Necro DCs and Spell Pen suffer compared to the pure wizard EK build, so I'm basically trading Necro instakills for more direct-damage and an extra AoE CC spell (BoGW).
And finally the classic Pale Trapper (wiz 18 / rog 2) in EK form.+2 INT tome is optional but recommended for the extra skill points, otherwise you have to give up one of your secondary skills like Open Lock or Heal.
Code:Drow Bladesinger Trapper 18/2 Wizard/Rogue True Neutral Drow Level Order 1. Rogue 6. Wizard 11. Wizard 16. Rogue 2. Wizard 7. Wizard 12. Wizard 17. Wizard 3. Wizard 8. Wizard 13. Wizard 18. Wizard 4. Wizard 9. Wizard 14. Wizard 19. Wizard 5. Wizard 10. Wizard 15. Wizard 20. Wizard Stats 28pt Tome Level Up ---- ---- -------- Strength 8 4: INT Dexterity 12 +1 8: INT Constitution 14 12: INT Intelligence 20 +2 16: INT Wisdom 8 20: INT Charisma 10 24: INT 28: INT Skills R W W W W W W W W W W W W W W R W W W W 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 ------------------------------------------------------------ Spellcr 2 2 2 2 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 1 23 Disable 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23 Search 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23 UMD 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23 Open Lo 4 1 1 1 10 2 1 20 Heal 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11 Balance 4 3 7 Repair 4 1 5 Spot 4 4 Jump 4 4 Swim 4 4 Tumble 4 4 Haggle 4 4 ------------------------------------------------------------ 52 8 8 8 8 8 8 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 16 10 10 10 10 Feats 1 : Single Weapon Fighting 2 Wizard : Extend Spell 3 : Precision 6 : Insightful Reflexes 6 Wizard : Quicken Spell 9 : Knight's Training 11 Wizard : Maximize Spell 12 : Spell Focus: Evocation 15 : Improved Single Weapon Fighting 17 Wizard : Heighten Spell 18 : Improved Critical: Slashing 21 Epic : Greater Single Weapon Fighting 24 Epic : Burst of Glacial Wrath 26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting OR Perfect Single Weapon Fighting 27 Epic : Overwhelming Critical 28 Destiny: Hellball OR Perfect Single Weapon Fighting 29 Destiny: Arcane Warrior OR Dire Charge 30 Epic : Master of: the Dead 30 Legend : Scion of: Plane of Air OR Shadowfell
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Thread: March of the Bladesingers!
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07-22-2016, 12:26 PM #1Build Constructionist
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March of the Bladesingers!
Last edited by unbongwah; 03-17-2019 at 01:27 PM.
Semi-retired Build Engineer. Everything was better back in our day. Get off my lawn.
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07-22-2016, 12:27 PM #2Build Constructionist
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Wraith Blade
EDIT (3/17/19) - Original posts archived for posterity:
A bit of background: Bladesinger started out as an elf-only class in AD&D before morphing into a race-restricted prestige class (PrC) in 3E. They're melee-focused warrior / arcane caster hybrids using swords (usually scimitars) who are always elves or (rarely) half-elves. Despite the name, they aren't usually bards, though I don't believe that's a hard requirement. Originally they had to be Lawful or Neutral Good, IIRC, but later editions dropped that requirement too. A purely arbitrary set of restrictions based on lore, of course, but we'll try to stay within those constraints.
Props to CThruTheEgo, who beat me to the punch revisiting ftr /wiz builds. So this thread will focus on elf-only variants in keeping with PnP Bladesingers. In the wake of U31 Kensei buffs, MCed fighter builds got some much-needed love, which makes gimpy flavor builds like these more viable.
The first build is a straight-forward STR-based wiz 12 / ftr 8 using falchions with a heavy investment in the elf tree for flavor (because NO ONE CAN STOP ME): Skill+Valenar Training for extra DPS, Feywild Tap for 10% Incorporealty. I was half-tempted to take the Shadow DM feat just for the tattoo, but refrained. Even I have my gimp limits...
LG for flavor and Blessed Blades; any Good alignment would work or go True Neutral if you don't plan to take Blessed Blades.Code:Valenar Bladesinger 12/8 Wizard/Fighter Lawful Good Elf Level Order 1. Fighter 6. Fighter 11. Wizard 16. Wizard 2. Wizard 7. Fighter 12. Fighter 17. Wizard 3. Fighter 8. Wizard 13. Wizard 18. Wizard 4. Fighter 9. Fighter 14. Wizard 19. Wizard 5. Fighter 10. Wizard 15. Wizard 20. Wizard Stats 28pt 32pt Level Up ---- ---- -------- Strength 18 18 4: STR Dexterity 10 10 8: STR Constitution 12 14 12: STR Intelligence 14 14 16: STR Wisdom 8 8 20: STR Charisma 8 8 24: STR 28: STR Skills F W F F F F F W F W W F W W W W W W W W 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 ------------------------------------------------------------ Concent 1 3 3 1 3 1 3 1 3 1 3 23 Spellcr 2 3 1 1 4 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23 UMD 2 1 1 1 1 1½ ½ 1 1 1 11 Search 1 1 1 1 1 5 Balance 2 1 3 Jump 1 1 Tumble 1 1 ------------------------------------------------------------ 16 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 Feats 1 : Power Attack 1 Fighter: Cleave 2 Wizard : Extend Spell 3 : Weapon Focus: Slashing 3 Fighter: Two Handed Fighting 5 Fighter: Great Cleave 6 : Weapon Specialization: Slashing 7 Fighter: Improved Two Handed Fighting 9 : Improved Critical: Slashing 12 : Stunning Blow 12 Fighter: Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing 13 Wizard : Quicken Spell 15 : Greater Two Handed Fighting 18 : Tactical Combatant 18 Wizard : Mental Toughness 21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical 24 Epic : Wellspring of Power 26 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting 27 Epic : Epic Damage Reduction 28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting OR First Blood OR Elusive Target 29 Destiny: Dire Charge OR Arcane Warrior 30 Epic : Bulwark of Defense OR Heavy Armor Combatant 30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea OR Plane of Fire Enhancements (80 AP) Kensei (33 AP)- Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades, Spiritual Bond, Strike with No Thought
- Extra Action Boost III, Weapon Group Specialization, Haste Boost III
- Weapon Group Specialization
- Weapon Group Specialization, Strength
- Weapon Group Specialization, Strike at the Heart, Opportunity Attack, Liquid Courage, Strength
- Weapon Master, One with the Blade, Keen Edge
- Elven Accuracy
- Valenar Weapon Training, Arcane Fluidity III
- Enchantment Lore III, Valenar Weapon Training
- Feywild Tap III, Valenar Weapon Training
- Valenar Weapon Training, Skill
- Eldritch Strike, Spellsword: Flame, Spellsword II: Acid
- Improved Mage Armor III, Toughness I
- Improved Shield III, Martial Training
- Arcane Barrier III
- Toughness, Stalwart Defense
- Item Defense I, Durable Defense III
- Resilient Defense III, Instinctive Defense I
- Tenacious Defense III
- Ken0 Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades; Ken1 Weapon Group Specialization; Elf0 Elven Accuracy
- EKw0 Eldritch Strike; EKw1 Improved Mage Armor I, II, III
- Ken1 Haste Boost I, II; Elf1 Valenar Weapon Training
- Ken0 Spiritual Bond; Ken1 Haste Boost III; Ken2 Weapon Group Specialization
- SD0 Toughness; SD1 Item Defense I; SD1 Durable Defense I, II
- SD1 Durable Defense III; SD0 Stalwart Defense; Ken1 Extra Action Boost I
- Ken0 Strike with No Thought; Ken3 Weapon Group Specialization
- Ken3 Strength; Ken1 Extra Action Boost II
- Ken1 Extra Action Boost III; Ken4 Opportunity Attack
- Ken4 Strike at the Heart; Ken4 Liquid Courage
- Ken4 Strength; SD2 Resilient Defense I; (Bank 2 AP)
- Ken4 Weapon Group Specialization; Ken5 Keen Edge; Ken5 One with the Blade; Ken5 Weapon Master; EKw1 Toughness I
- EKw0 Spellsword: Flame; Elf1 Arcane Fluidity I, II, III
- EKw2 Improved Shield I, II, III; SD2 Resilient Defense II
- SD2 Resilient Defense III; SD2 Instinctive Defense I; SD3 Tenacious Defense I, II
- SD3 Tenacious Defense III; EKw2 Martial Training; EKw3 Arcane Barrier I
- EKw3 Arcane Barrier II, III; EKw0 Spellsword II: Acid
- Elf2 Valenar Weapon Training; Elf2 Enchantment Lore I, II; Elf3 Feywild Tap I
- Elf3 Feywild Tap II; Elf3 Valenar Weapon Training; Elf2 Enchantment Lore III
- Elf4 Valenar Weapon Training; Elf4 Skill; Elf3 Feywild Tap III
- Bane of Undeath, Interrogation, Purge the Wicked
- Consecration III, Flames of Purity II
- Sacred Ground, Empyrean Magic, Blessed Blades
- No Regret, Crusade
- Heavenly Presence, Celestial Champion
- Strike Down
- Grim Precision (Tier 3 Shadowdancer)
- Momentum Swing (Tier 2 Dreadnought)
- Extra Action Boost (Tier 1 Dreadnought)
- Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)
Main drawback is lack of self-healing until you get to epics; and then not until you level your EDs enough to unlock what you need. Although for some players, "not an Easy Win Button" is a feature, not a drawback...
Zerg variant: The ftr 12 / wiz 7 / barb 1 split gains +10% run speed and higher melee DPS (Power Surge, Gtr Weap Spec, Imp Power Atk) at the expense of lvl 5 & 6 spells and shorter buff duration (Haste & Displacement are 1 minute shorter w/Extend than on wiz 12). This time I did take Shadow DM to help save SPs and for longer cast time.
Code:Bladesinger (Zerg) 12/7/1 Fighter/Wizard/Barbarian Chaotic Good Elf Level Order 1. Barbarian 6. Fighter 11. Fighter 16. Wizard 2. Fighter 7. Fighter 12. Fighter 17. Fighter 3. Wizard 8. Fighter 13. Wizard 18. Fighter 4. Wizard 9. Fighter 14. Wizard 19. Fighter 5. Fighter 10. Wizard 15. Wizard 20. Fighter Stats 28pt 32pt Level Up ---- ---- -------- Strength 18 18 4: STR Dexterity 10 10 8: STR Constitution 12 14 12: STR Intelligence 14 14 16: STR Wisdom 8 8 20: STR Charisma 8 8 24: STR 28: STR Skills B F W W F F F F F W F F W W W W F F F F 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 ------------------------------------------------------------ Spellcr 4 3 4 4 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 23 Search 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11 UMD 2 2 1 1 1 ½ 1½ 1 1 11 Balance 2 2 2 6 Intim 4 4 Jump 4 4 Heal 2 2 Tumble 2 2 Repair 1 1 ------------------------------------------------------------ 24 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 Feats 1 : Power Attack 2 Fighter: Cleave 3 : Least Dragonmark: Shadow 3 Wizard : Extend Spell 5 Fighter: Great Cleave 6 : Stunning Blow 7 Fighter: Weapon Focus: Slashing 9 : Improved Critical: Slashing 9 Fighter: Weapon Specialization: Slashing 12 : Two Handed Fighting 12 Fighter: Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing 14 Wizard : Quicken Spell 15 : Improved Two Handed Fighting 18 : Greater Two Handed Fighting 18 Fighter: Heavy Armor Master 20 Fighter: Tactical Mastery 21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical 24 Epic : Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing 26 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting 27 Epic : Epic Damage Reduction 28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting OR Elusive Target 29 Destiny: Dire Charge OR Deific Warding 30 Epic : Bulwark of Defense OR Heavy Armor Combatant 30 Legend : Scion of: Plane of Earth Enhancements (80 AP) Kensei (34 AP)- Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades, Spiritual Bond, Strike with No Thought, Power Surge
- Extra Action Boost III, Weapon Group Specialization, Haste Boost III
- Weapon Group Specialization
- Weapon Group Specialization, Shattering Strike II, Strength
- Weapon Group Specialization, Strike at the Heart, Opportunity Attack, Strength
- Weapon Master, One with the Blade, Keen Edge
- Elven Accuracy
- Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus III, Valenar Weapon Training, Arcane Fluidity III
- Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow, Valenar Weapon Training
- Greater Dragonmark of Shadow
- Eldritch Strike, Spellsword: Acid
- Improved Mage Armor III, Toughness I
- Improved Shield III, Martial Training
- Arcane Barrier III
- Toughness, Stalwart Defense
- Item Defense I, Durable Defense III
- Resilient Defense III, Instinctive Defense I
- Tenacious Defense III
- Furious Rage
- Barbarian Power Attack III
- Rav0 Furious Rage; Rav1 Barbarian Power Attack I, II, III
- Ken0 Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades; Ken1 Haste Boost I, II, III
- EKw0 Eldritch Strike; Elf0 Elven Accuracy; Elf1 Valenar Weapon Training
- Elf1 Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus I, II; Elf2 Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow
- Elf1 Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus III; Elf2 Valenar Weapon Training
- Elf3 Greater Dragonmark of Shadow; Ken1 Weapon Group Specialization; Ken0 Spiritual Bond
- Ken2 Weapon Group Specialization; Ken1 Extra Action Boost I
- Ken3 Shattering Strike I; Ken3 Strength
- Ken1 Extra Action Boost II; Ken0 Strike with No Thought; Ken3 Weapon Group Specialization
- Ken1 Extra Action Boost III; Ken4 Opportunity Attack
- Ken4 Strike at the Heart; Ken4 Strength
- Ken4 Weapon Group Specialization; Ken3 Shattering Strike II; Ken5 One with the Blade
- Ken5 Keen Edge; Ken5 Weapon Master; Elf1 Arcane Fluidity I, II
- Elf1 Arcane Fluidity III; EKw1 Improved Mage Armor I, II, III
- EKw1 Toughness I; EKw0 Spellsword: Acid; SD0 Toughness; SD1 Durable Defense I
- SD1 Durable Defense II, III; SD1 Item Defense I; SD0 Stalwart Defense
- SD2 Resilient Defense I, II, III; SD2 Instinctive Defense I
- SD3 Tenacious Defense I, II, III
- EKw2 Martial Training; EKw2 Improved Shield I, II; EKw3 Arcane Barrier I
- Ken0 Power Surge; EKw3 Arcane Barrier II; EKw2 Improved Shield III; EKw3 Arcane Barrier III
- Bane of Undeath, Interrogation, Purge the Wicked
- Consecration III, Flames of Purity II
- Sacred Ground, Empyrean Magic, Blessed Blades
- No Regret, Crusade
- Castigation, Celestial Champion
- Strike Down
- Grim Precision (Tier 3 Shadowdancer)
- Momentum Swing (Tier 2 Dreadnought)
- Extra Action Boost (Tier 1 Dreadnought)
- Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)
First draft of updating an old build concept: namely a melee gish who uses wraith form. This version requires drow and Harper so I can go INT-based: to-hit, dmg, DCs, and Reflex saves, all in one stat - what's not to love? I also used a +1 DEX tome for feat pre-reqs and +2 INT for more skill pts. The Wraith Blade is squishier than other Bladesingers, due to less PRR and no Tenacious Defense (doesn't use med/hvy armor and APs are constrained); so it tries to make up for it with high Dodge, 25% Incorporealty, Evasion, and trap skills to round things out. If you prefer TWF, start DEX 16 CON 12 and adjust feats accordingly.
Even with max INT, skill pts are tight; the must-haves IMO were Spellcraft, Search, Disable, and Heal (Neg Energy Spellpower) plus 7 ranks of Balance for GSWF. After that I maxed UMD and dumped what I could into Open Lock; could've gone for Spot instead.
Code:Wraith Blade 12/6/2 Wizard/Fighter/Rogue True Neutral Drow Level Order 1. Rogue 6. Fighter 11. Wizard 16. Wizard 2. Fighter 7. Fighter 12. Rogue 17. Wizard 3. Wizard 8. Fighter 13. Wizard 18. Wizard 4. Fighter 9. Wizard 14. Wizard 19. Wizard 5. Fighter 10. Wizard 15. Wizard 20. Wizard Stats 28pt Tome Level Up ---- ---- -------- Strength 8 4: INT Dexterity 12 +1 8: INT Constitution 14 12: INT Intelligence 20 +2 16: INT Wisdom 8 20: INT Charisma 10 24: INT 28: INT Skills R F W F F F F F W W W R W W W W W W W W 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 ------------------------------------------------------------ Spellcr 6 1 1 1 3 1 4 2 2 1 1 23 Disable 4 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23 Search 4 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23 UMD 4 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23 Open Lo 4 ½ ½ ½ ½ 9 1 ½ 1½ 18 Heal 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11 Balance 4 3 7 Repair 4 4 Spot 4 4 Jump 4 4 Swim 4 4 Tumble 4 4 Haggle 4 4 Perform 2 2 ------------------------------------------------------------ 52 7 7 8 8 8 8 9 9 9 9 15 9 9 9 10 10 10 10 10 Feats 1 : Single Weapon Fighting 2 Fighter: Exotic Weapon: Khopesh 3 : Precision 3 Wizard : Extend Spell 4 Fighter: Dodge 6 : Weapon Focus: Slashing 6 Fighter: Mobility 8 Fighter: Improved Single Weapon Fighting 9 : Weapon Specialization: Slashing 12 : Improved Critical: Slashing 13 Wizard : Quicken Spell 15 : Insightful Reflexes 18 : Greater Single Weapon Fighting 18 Wizard : Maximize Spell 21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical 24 Epic : Wellspring of Power 26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting 27 Epic : Epic Damage Reduction 28 Destiny: Perfect Single Weapon Fighting OR Epic Spell Power: Negative 29 Destiny: Dire Charge OR Arcane Warrior 30 Epic : Epic Reflexes 30 Legend : Scion of: Shadowfell OR Plane of Earth Enhancements (80 AP) Kensei (32 AP)- Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades, Spiritual Bond, Strike with No Thought
- Extra Action Boost III, Weapon Group Specialization, Exotic Weapon Mastery, Haste Boost III
- Weapon Group Specialization, Improved Dodge III
- Weapon Group Specialization, Athletic Mastery III
- Strike at the Heart, Opportunity Attack
- One with the Blade, Keen Edge
- Dark Reaping, Zombie Form, Vampire Form, Wraith Form
- Spell Critical, Negative Energy Conduit III
- Spell Critical, Bone Armor III
- Cloak of Night III, Spell Critical, Intelligence
- Spell Critical
- Agent of Good I
- Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
- Versatile Adept III, Know the Angles III
- Versatile Adept II, Strategic Combat
- Toughness, Stalwart Defense
- Item Defense I, Durable Defense III
- Spell Resistance
- Arcane Fluidity III
- Legendary Tactics III, Extra Action Boost III, Constitution
- Damage Boost III, Constitution
- Critical Damage III
- Volcano's Edge
- Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
- Master's Blitz
- Energy Burst: Acid (Tier 4 Draconic) OR Sense Weakness (Tier 4 Fury)
- Grim Precision (Tier 3 Shadowdancer)
- Lithe (Tier 2 Shadowdancer)
- Brace for Impact (Tier 1 Sentinel)
Last edited by unbongwah; 03-17-2019 at 12:17 PM.
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07-22-2016, 02:39 PM #3Community Member
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From the AD&D 2nd Ed. Complete Book of Elves:
BLADESINGER
Of the roving Elves there are few as deadly as the Bladesinger, They are masters of their weapons and have spent their lives in the study of their chosen weapons. They have also learned to cast spells while engaged in combat, and thus they double their might.
To be a Bladesinger a character needs at least a 13 Strength and Constitution as well as a 15 Dex and Int.
Role:
While some characters may stay at home to defend the Elven way, Bladesingers go out and actively promote it, They do this by seeking out their race's foes and eliminating them, either through words or actions. Acting as both diplomats and one-elf armies, they ensure the safety of the Elf Race.
Secondary Skills:
Hunter, Trader/Barterer, Trapper/Furrier
Wpn Proficiencies:
Bonus: None
Recommended: Single Wpn Style for use in Combat and Spells, THF for use when spells run out.
None Wpn Proficiencies:
Bonus: Blind Fighting, Dancing.
Recommended: Etiquette, Juggling, Singing, Tumbling, Wpnsmithing.
Suggested Elf Subraces:
Grey, High.
There is absolutely NO alignment requirement, There is absolutely NO mention of scimitars though Long Swords/Short Swords ARE mentioned because of the Elven Bonuses to using said weapons!
AND Grey Elf translates to DDO as Sun Elf {Morninglord} and High Elf to Aerenal NOT Valenar which are far closer to Sylvan Elves.
The Bladesinger was originally a Multiclassed Fighter/Mage when Multiclassing meant 10/10 or even 20/20. For DDO the obvious answer would be 17 Wizard/3 Ftr, 16 Wizard/4 Fighter or 15 Wizard/5 Fighter.
Though getting Tier 3 Swashbuckler to use Single Weapon with Orb would be much closer so perhaps 12 Wizard/5 Fighter/3 Bard?.
From the description above you should probably add Diplo or the more useful Bluff to the skills in your build.
Oh...I should probably also point out that Bladesingers were not allowed to wear any armour more bulky than Elven Chain.
So for DDO purposes the Lore says Light Armour only.Last edited by FranOhmsford; 07-22-2016 at 02:49 PM.
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07-22-2016, 03:01 PM #4Build Constructionist
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FYI, I was going off this page: "Class Requirements: Alignment: LG, NG only"
Originally Posted by FranOhmsford
That appears to be the case for the 2E and 3E Bladesingers, but I'm not seeing mention of that for the current iteration. [EDIT: anyone who cares can use mithral med armor instead of hvy.] I will be doing a rogue-splashed variant, though, which will obviously be using light armor.Oh...I should probably also point out that Bladesingers were not allowed to wear any armour more bulky than Elven Chain.
So for DDO purposes the Lore says Light Armour only.Semi-retired Build Engineer. Everything was better back in our day. Get off my lawn.
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07-22-2016, 04:09 PM #5Community Member
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Well no idea where that page got its information from but I'm going from the actual 2nd Ed. Complete Book of Elves...Which was where the Bladesinger was Introduced as a Ftr/Mage Kit! Originally Posted by unbongwah
There was NO Bladesinger Class - It was a Multiclass Ftr/Mage!
Bladesingers are NOT Paladins and the description of their activities denotes that CG would be the most likely Alignment for them. Strangely enough this also happens to be the standard alignment for Elves in D&D.
There were no alignment restrictions for this Kit!
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07-23-2016, 10:03 PM #6Community Member
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To be fair, a REAL AD&D flavor build wouldn't spend enhancement points, as those correlate to prestige classes! Additionally, the rate and value of magical items would by no means approach the rate they are granted in DDO! So unbongwah, how DARE you sacrifice a fragment of authenticity for viability and therefore enjoyment of play?!
Regardless, are a couple other problems with your raging:
- Tomes could put you above these stat requirements. Certainly not at level one, but he could probably rework the level order so there's no multiclassing until this stage
- Paladins can't be NG, so I'm not sure from where you're pulling that moniker, and given the role described in your post I could easily see a DM requiring such a virtuous build to be Good (and Chaotic doesn't really make sense, given they're fighting for elves / elfkind).
- I'm not really sure from where you're pulling those level splits that would be the "obvious answer" - if multiclassing meant an even split, 12/8 is pretty close if you want the build to remain at least slightly viable. Regardless, 17/3, 16/4 and 15/5 are farther from old-school multiclassing, so I'm not sure I understand your critique here...
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07-23-2016, 11:58 PM #7Community Member
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Also..you can also have the nwp bladesong..I only play 2nd ed PNP..I have a grey elf mage thief with the proficiency.. I wish there was the dwarven sharpshooter in here from dwarfs guide..elf's also get no str dmge adj melee weapon with archer class..I so so wish ddo was 2nd ed..skills and powers would be even better
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09-06-2016, 02:17 AM #8Community Member
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So they are like the elven Mossad? Originally Posted by FranOhmsford
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09-06-2016, 03:01 AM #9Hopeless Romantic
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Crossed with Seal Team 6, yes. Originally Posted by NaturalHazard
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09-06-2016, 04:29 AM #10Community Member
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Thinking about it, Swashbuckler in DDO really does fit Bladesinger and some variation of Bard/Ftr/Wiz with Long Sword + Orb would be the closest one could get in DDO.
At least 3 levels of Bard for Swashbuckler T3
At least 3 Ftr levels for Stalwart Defense
Minimum 11 Wizard levels for GH and True Seeing.
So either 12/5/3 or 11/5/4
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09-06-2016, 08:23 AM #11The Hatchery
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You can't use a long sword with swashbuckler stance. Originally Posted by FranOhmsford
Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai
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09-06-2016, 08:33 AM #12Community Member
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Short Sword then. Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo
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09-06-2016, 01:18 PM #13Community Member
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why not rapier? its a weapon elves get a bonus with? And don't they get proficiency with it? Also in the FR setting? I remember playing NWN2 with custom BS class and you could use bard to get into the prestige. Originally Posted by FranOhmsford
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09-06-2016, 02:05 PM #14Hopeless Romantic
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Because a rapier is a filthy talking monkey weapon, not fit for elvish hands, that's why. Longsword or go home, Elven Bladesingers don't need their weapons to be 'optimal'. They are optimal, and boy don't they know it Originally Posted by NaturalHazard
Fight/Wiz kensai/EK is, for me, the closest thematic match for a true bladesinger in DDO. Bard only has a look-in because of the 'Dancing' skill pre req quite honestly, and nothing is stopping you putting points into perform if it matters that much to you, regardless of class.
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09-07-2016, 04:30 AM #15Community Member
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Isn't the rapier the most elegant of swords? the suggestion wasn't because it was *optimal* wouldn't that be khopesh? or scimitar?
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09-07-2016, 05:18 AM #16Hopeless Romantic
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Sure. If you're a talking monkey. If you're an elf, you don't *need* an elegant weapon. Your mere presence makes it automatically more elegant than whatever the talking monkey is holding. Rapier would be 'optimal' in this case in as much as it's finessable which matters for swashbuckler, which a blade singer doesn't need to be. Bladesingers just need to twirl around haughtily laying waste to everything around them and lecturing on how everyone else is doing it wrong, whilst victim and audience alike scream "my eyes! Its so beautiful! I wish I was an elf instead of a talking monkey!" Originally Posted by NaturalHazard
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09-07-2016, 08:18 AM #17Community Member
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lol ok.
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09-07-2016, 09:28 AM #18Community Member
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Elven blade singers seem to fit well as fighter bards to me thematically Kensai/Warchanter/Stalwart Defender to be specific. Their aura of awesomeness is well simulated by the War Chanter passive aura's. And their fey puissance by the updated fighter. They would almost have to run in fatesinger at epic levels thematically though. Shiradi would work if the shiradi effects were produced on melee attacks.
Last edited by Jetrule; 09-07-2016 at 09:33 AM.
Percivaul Dusol, BadRandall and Shortpact--The Silver Legion
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09-07-2016, 11:33 AM #19Build Constructionist
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That's my view too. Swashbucklers have been done to death, including by me; this thread is not for them. Kensei / Warchanter saw some nice buffs, but this thread is also not for them. I have some ftr / warlock ideas, but I'm saving them for a separate PDK-centric thread someday. Originally Posted by dunklezhan
I feel like Divine Crusader is a better fit, even though it's, well, divine not arcane. But similar to CThru's Arcane Warrior builds, I like the idea of having both melee & caster DPS, even if it isn't minmax by modern DDO standards. Crusader also helps out with self-healing for the non-undead versions. Originally Posted by Jetrule
Semi-retired Build Engineer. Everything was better back in our day. Get off my lawn.
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09-08-2016, 03:33 AM #20Community Member
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would it use an orb? or have the hand free for spell casting? Too bad there is no melee type enhancements like AA imbues but for melee weapons? Or effects where you can boost the elemental effects on weapons by adding spell power to them?
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