Cannith Crafting More Info + Recap

[Taimasan]

Is cannith crafting being done in lock step with the monk fixes, or will we have one system of borked handwraps and another system of working handwraps after monk pass is done?

[Aletys]

~snip~
The Mark of the Cannith can be applied to add the extra slot, however there is a bug where you can keep applying it over and over.
~snip.

By "applying it over and over", do you mean you can add multiple bonus effects with it? As in a 4th, 5th, etc. bonus effect? Or that you can keep pressing "craft" over & over again & it doesn't do anything but consume the Marks?

If it's the latter, this has been around in the current CC system for at least as long as I have been crafting, which is at least 4 years. I think most experienced crafters are aware of it, and we're just careful to avoid doing it by accident. It's such a minor bug (and easily avoidable once you know about it) that I never bothered to report it.

[bsquishwizzy]

Not sure where you get the information, and maybe you looked but didn't understand. I should be able to create (all values max for the ML) for a STR based character:

- Bracers with STR, CON and Insightful STR
- Necklace with HEAL, Sheltering and Insightful Heal
- Head with Intimidate, Accuracy, Insightful Fortification
- Ring 1 with PRR, False Life, Insightful CON
- Ring 2 with Balance, Feather Falling, Insightful False Life
- Gloves with Doublestrike, Heal AMP, Insightful Doublestrike
- Belt with Deathblock, Natural Armor Bonus, Insightful Dodge
- Cloak with Elemental Resistances, Dodge, Insightful Sheltering
- Feet has to be RNG, because we can't do speed

Certainly some of these could be named items, but if you went without named, I think this would be pretty good for a melee STR build. A lot of the things I mentioned above are on multiple items, and yes, there are going to be cases where you might have to sacrifice an enchantment if you want, but many are in different locations.

You do realize that there are more options out there outside of melee STR build, right? Because that was a really poor example to use as there are numerous limitation when you start going into casters and so on.

Looking at the current Cannith Crafting Planner, Deathblock is not available on a belt.

Nor is Deathblock even mentioned in the first three posts of this thread. Negative resistance maybe? You tell me.

Finally, there is this statement in the first three posts on the thread:

Although Cannith will follow the slot restrictions of effects that Random Loot has…

Meaning that if random loot cannot slot it, you cannot get it in Cannith crafting. Now, if I recall correctly, the old random system did not slot many of the items available with the current implementation of Flexible shards. Meaning that the old Cannith system gave you stuff you could not get in random loot (of course, I guess this depends on the version of random loot they used as there were several changes along the way).

While I am unaware of the current slot restrictions, the fact they mention this means there are indeed slot restrictions. It would be nice if Cannith Crafting maintained the one system of getting around that impediment.

And go without named items? Are you high?

[bsquishwizzy]

There are so many options it's hard for me to understand why you can't find anything. Sure it would be nice to fit a necklace item on a boot, but it will be the exception when I choose random loot over my own crafted item. DC casters obviously will want max values only available on random loot, but for most characters it won't matter and I can think of ways to replace almost all the random loot I am currently wearing with the new crafted gear (excluding higher tier values not available with cannith crafting for DC builds - casters, assassins, etc.).

What options? I’ve got three posts from NoWorries loaded with “vague.”

And I mostly play Casters. So yeah, that’s a concern.

And it is not “finding anything,” it’s being able to slot it WHERE I want to slot it.

Did they revise some of this stuff from their initial explanations?

[Tebaco]

So i decided hop in lama and new stuff in Cannith.
Generaly speaking its seems grafting is simplified in manner of minimal level of item.
SO we dont need worry if another sloted effect break our expectations of minimal level.

Lets try to be short and straing to the point:

Good parts:
- simplification of minimal level of crafted gear
- crafting item with aug slots doesnt affect minimal level
- if i would be 30lvl complete toon (all TRs), i would aploud that finaly i can do missing piece of gear that i need


Bad parts:
- crafting is expensive on collectables
(i hoped in with my completionist and burned my bag just with few tries of crafting. So really dont try to craft items on each level, really dont try craft and destroy when you TR. You should keep your crafted gear because its expensive. Unless you dupe cheater. Also you cant buy anything in ah now, because players realised this soon.)
- no flexible shards (this is strong downgrade compared to old system. Generaly speaking with old system you could easily exist from 1-20 when you become experiented crafter. Now you cant and you have to think 2 before spent any costly collectable)
- it seems to be designed to higher level content ignoring lower level flexibility
- randomly find/bought in ah item is just much cheaper than crafted one due to lack of collectables
- favoring collectables totaly invalidating greater and lesser essences collected by vet for years



What to improve?
1. Do it cheaper on collectables
2. Consider somehow adding flexible shards (but for top level its not good idea)

Advice to others:
Do lvl 9 gear set with old crafting system and keep it. It seems much cheaper.

[TomahawkOrange]

Exclusive Effects:

Cannith:
Metalline
Alligned
Everbright
Blueshine
Ghost Touch
Invulnerability
Vengeful
Unbalancing
Twilight
Lesser Arcane Spell Dexterity
Songblade
Slowburst/Improved Slowburst
Regeneration
Persuasion
Fearsome
Silver Flame/Sacred/Eternal Faith
Efficient Metamagic
Blindness Immunity
True Seeing

Not a single one of those exclusive shard types is craftable on Lammania today.
Edit: Oh, and feather falling is missing, too.

[Dandonk]

Not a single one of those exclusive shard types is craftable on Lammania today.
Edit: Oh, and feather falling is missing, too.

The non-scaling effects aren't in yet.

[Astarii]

Several things i wish would have happened....

non completely removing the old system. i for one, have a ton of shards already made & now no time to apply those to items and/or deconstruct those. I'm up for crafting enhancements, but not removal of older shards. having a shine set at least to be able to set the old ones on would be nice, not having it is very annoying.


-Vileone

[Stoner81]

Several things i wish would have happened....

non completely removing the old system. i for one, have a ton of shards already made & now no time to apply those to items and/or deconstruct those. I'm up for crafting enhancements, but not removal of older shards. having a shine set at least to be able to set the old ones on would be nice, not having it is very annoying.


-Vileone

Sorry dude but I strongly advise you to deconstruct your shards and convert them to essences before this goes live otherwise they will be useless. Shards left over from the old system will no longer will usable when the new one goes live.

Stoner81.

[Tebaco]

So after some more exploration I come up here with some more insights.
Just keep in mind it is very subjective point of view and not deep as i would like to do. But deep exploration require more time.


So here is practical example how crafting changed:

Before:
Lets make something with old crafting system: Clever +6 Necklace
Material needed:
28 greater mind essences +
140 lesser mind essences +
49 siberys dragonshard fragments +
3 chipped bone talismans

My bags tells me that i can affort to make about 72 items.


After:
And now lets use new crafting system: Just notice now you cant make Necklace so lets do Helm
Material needed:
lvl 9 shard = 90 cannith essences = 90 greater mind recipes +
100 cannith essences (compared to old its needed for about 1/3 more essences) +
15 ceramic bowls +
5 house-sealed letters

My bags tells me that i can affort to make about 5 items (still miss few collectables for 1 of tham, but lets keep it simple).



So material part results as massive nerf. With many TR its affortable make just 5 this kind stat items.
Another part is oportunity to add insight bonus in new system. That means OP (overpower) spice in game.
And finally there is another nerf resulting with removing flexible shards.
But I have here another information. There was nerfed more than this so lets look more closer on it:

Where to slot: intelligence shard (usual not flexible shard)


before:
helm, googles, ring


after:
helm, googles, cloak, trinket


Removing ring option doesnt look very nicely.


Conclusion:
Why people in Turbine decide to do that above?
I think its mainly because of balance issues. Just keep in mind if they let for ppl in cap more options, powergamers break content with lightning speed.
But this resulting with nerf for players doing heroic.

My thought how to fix it is introduce another shard: with working name: depleted shard of ...
That shard could be sloted to maximum item level of 13 maybe. With maximum effect +6 stat bonus.
And finaly that shard should be cheaper on material (rest introduced things like lack of flexible shards may be unchanged)


PS: edit due wrong number of cannith essences (900 become 90 +100) in new recipe

[elvesunited]

Nothing is going to break new crafting faster than if too many collectables are required:

When I trained my crafter I built every shard available except those that required a rare ingredient or a purified essence. Multiple times. I made and recycled a lot of shards. But the collectable requirements I'm seeing suggest that isn't viable.

How will new crafters train?

And now lets use new crafting system: Just notice now you cant make Necklace so lets do Helm
Material needed:
lvl 9 shard = 900 greater mind recipes (compared to old its needed for about 1/3 more essences) +
15 ceramic bowls +
5 house-sealed letters

And this is just for a +6 Intelligence necklace?

House sealed letters aren't that common. Unless the drop rate of collectables are increased dramatically, the amount of effort to make a decent crafted item for folks that don't have a massive reserve of collectables ( and those reserves won't last long with this system ) will rival that of crafting full tier greensteel.

Is that the other shoe being dropped? Is crafting changing going from crafters creating mutliple crafted items to fill your equipment holes to a slow ardous process of collecting excessive numbers ( Some of which are rather rare ) of collectables for a single crafted item?

[Tebaco]

And this is just for a +6 Intelligence necklace?

Trick is that cost is same for +1 or +6 or +16 inteligence stat item. Necklace you cant make with new system, so must choose different slot.
Only differ amount of cannith essences. But cannith essences basicaly drop and droped in almost each chest like sort of gear that can be deconstructed or as greater (mind, body, law,..) esseces itself.

[Stoner81]

How will new crafters train?

You can level up by just making Minimum Level shards which only use essences.

Stoner81.

[elvesunited]

Trick is that cost is same for +1 or +6 or +16 inteligence stat item. Necklace you cant make with new system, so must choose different slot.
Only differ amount of cannith essences. But cannith essences basicaly drop and droped in almost each chest like sort of gear that can be deconstructed or as greater (mind, body, law,..) esseces itself.

+16 Intelligence? You can actually craft something that exceeds a Lengendary Greensteel Item?

so 5 House Sealed Letters / 15 Ceramic Bowls for a +1 Intelligence stat item.

this along with the first group of crafting effects being mostly lackluster:

Group 1:
Guards
False Life
Wizardry
Enchantment Resist
Illusion Resist
Poison Ward
Disease Ward
Will Save
Reflex Save
Fortitude Save
Damage Resistances (fire, acid, cold, etc.)
Skills
Fortification
Incite
Diversion

How will anyone train a new crafter that can produce anything of value without a brain destroying amount of grind?
Why would anyone make a non-epic crafted item? Heroic levels don't get that tough. You can coast through on lootgen.

It seems this is changing the entire mindset of crafting. From filling holes through not so expensive crafting. To creating powerful items through very expensive crafting. ( in terms of collectables needed )

[Arkai]

Folks, a question (and sorry if this info has been told before)

Is there a complete list of effects that will be lost in the new system?

Example: Secret door detection, Striding, etc


Thanks

[Dven]

In the few min I was on Lam, I was disappointed to see that you could only turn in up to +3 tomes for purified, and I had hopes that the nearly worthless skill tomes would have also been added to this list. Any chance of this ???

And I cant say this strongly enough, if you dont have crafting levels now, get them before the update. More grinding but much cheaper on your resources.

[Tebaco]

+16 Intelligence? You can actually craft something that exceeds a Lengendary Greensteel Item?

Well m8 I am not sure about this, because my early exploration on Lamania forced my crafter to burn collectableg bag in 5 mins so i deleted that toon and tryied recopy with no success.
Probably it could be possible but:
1.) You will need invest lot of time and material to train your crafter so he will be able to craft 30 lvl item.
2.) I am not sure what effect apply on that 30lvl item. (someone told for 26 lvl, you do +12 item, so not sure if you can reach +16 but my 6th sence tells me that you can)

[Tebaco]

Folks, a question (and sorry if this info has been told before)

Is there a complete list of effects that will be lost in the new system?

Example: Secret door detection, Striding, etc


Thanks

Yes
Click crafting device and keep explore ))

[UurlockYgmeov]

Folks, a question (and sorry if this info has been told before)

Is there a complete list of effects that will be lost in the new system?

Example: Secret door detection, Striding, etc


Thanks

http://ddowiki.com/page/Talk:Cannith_Crafting/U32

(all scaling effects inl and runestones, ammo, static, and clickies, not in yet)

[Arkai]

http://ddowiki.com/page/Talk:Cannith_Crafting/U32

(all scaling effects inl and runestones, ammo, static, and clickies, not in yet)

I was asking only for the missing effects, but I will figure out (I think only secret door detection is gone).

Thanks, man.