Cleric Enhancements suck - Am I right or am I right?

[Hilltrot]

So, I though about playing a cleric - mainly to get the conjuration bonus to Evards.

Cleric isn't my favorite - no trapping - no evasion - no really important spells . . .

And I was trying to figure out which enhancement tree to use.

Let's look at the capstones.

Divine disciple - - umm +2 wisdom? and a ton of stuff with mediocre effects.

Radiant servant - - +2 wisdom . . . that's all.

Warpriest - - +2 Con and a lousy ability on a 5 minute cooldown.

I could go on, but I'm actually seriously looking at harper for my primary!?

That's not all. I've looked at spells and 9th level only works if I go all out to try to make implosion work. So I was willing to drop to 16th level. But then I learn that Holy Aura doesn't work against enchantment/charm like it should, so I'm willing to drop to 15th level.

Now I'm debating all the fun stuff I can put in those five levels.

[Grailhawk]

So, I though about playing a cleric - mainly to get the conjuration bonus to Evards.

Cleric isn't my favorite - no trapping - no evasion - no really important spells . . .

And I was trying to figure out which enhancement tree to use.

Let's look at the capstones.

Divine disciple - - umm +2 wisdom? and a ton of stuff with mediocre effects.

Radiant servant - - +2 wisdom . . . that's all.

Warpriest - - +2 Con and a lousy ability on a 5 minute cooldown.

I could go on, but I'm actually seriously looking at harper for my primary!?

That's not all. I've looked at spells and 9th level only works if I go all out to try to make implosion work. So I was willing to drop to 16th level. But then I learn that Holy Aura doesn't work against enchantment/charm like it should, so I'm willing to drop to 15th level.

Now I'm debating all the fun stuff I can put in those five levels.

Given your not seeing anything interesting in the healing aura, I think you should do down to 11 or 12 and then take 8 fighter levels if your big on evasion and traping 12/6/2 would be ok. Just take enough levels for the heal spell.

[Hilltrot]

Given your not seeing anything interesting in the healing aura, I think you should do down to 11 or 12 and then take 8 fighter levels if your big on evasion and traping 12/6/2 would be ok. Just take enough levels for the heal spell.

Earlier, I had looked at the healing aura and I actually found that it was far worse than sustaining song. In addition, I'd have to go all the way through that tree to finally get to it. And nothing in the rest of the tree looks good. There just isn't that much undead.

[EnziteBob]

First off yes I know cleric trees need work.


Right now Sunelf seems so be the best way to go for the Divine Disciple tree. yes a +4 WIS would be better, but also gives you +2 to all saves, +1 caster level and maximum caster level to Light, Negative Energy, and Fire spells, +5 Negative/positive Energy spellpower (would be better +10), and a total of seven useful spells added to your spell book. not that bad if you got the past lifes to back it up.

Radiant Servant is made for healing and this capstone is great for that. You gain +2 Wisdom (+4 would be better and maybe +2 conjuration focus). Every fifth positive energy spell you cast deals maximum healing and has +50% chance to critical (this can be real helpful in a raid).


Warpriest well this on needs the most work out off all the trees. But the capstone is great for tanking. Implacable Foe+Divine Intervention+Stalwart Pact+Death Pact+being in Unyielding Sentinel+ twist cocoon= really hard to die.


Useful spells: Energy Drain, Implosion, True Resurrection, Mass Heal (all cure spells for that matter), Death Ward, Mass (easy to get item still nice to have), Symbol of Death, Destruction, the fire spells, Mass Protection from Elements, Blade Barrier, Heroes' Feast, Cometfall, Banishment, Divine Punishment, Greater Command, the aliment spells, Recitation, Searing Light (all the light spells for that matter), Soundburst, and the list goes on. Yes you will have to get spell point regen and max out your Wisdom to get a lot of them to work well in LE, but the same can be said of all spells these days.

[Hilltrot]

Given your not seeing anything interesting in the healing aura, I think you should do down to 11 or 12 and then take 8 fighter levels if your big on evasion and traping 12/6/2 would be ok. Just take enough levels for the heal spell.

I can see what you're talking about with Kensai and how 8 levels of fighter are needed to fully realize it.

I guess I was thinking more defensively with 3 paladin and 2 monk. I might go with arcane archer. I was thinking about death pact.

Although bard healing is better than cleric healing, I didn't find a definite need for the heal spell. I'd feel worse about losing blade barrier.

[Hilltrot]

First off yes I know cleric trees need work.


Right now Sunelf seems so be the best way to go for the Divine Disciple tree. yes a +4 WIS would be better, but also gives you +2 to all saves, +1 caster level and maximum caster level to Light, Negative Energy, and Fire spells, +5 Negative/positive Energy spellpower (would be better +10), and a total of seven useful spells added to your spell book. not that bad if you got the past lifes to back it up.

Radiant Servant is made for healing and this capstone is great for that. You gain +2 Wisdom (+4 would be better and maybe +2 conjuration focus). Every fifth positive energy spell you cast deals maximum healing and has +50% chance to critical (this can be real helpful in a raid).


Warpriest well this on needs the most work out off all the trees. But the capstone is great for tanking. Implacable Foe+Divine Intervention+Stalwart Pact+Death Pact+being in Unyielding Sentinel+ twist cocoon= really hard to die.


Useful spells: Energy Drain, Implosion, True Resurrection, Mass Heal (all cure spells for that matter), Death Ward, Mass (easy to get item still nice to have), Symbol of Death, Destruction, the fire spells, Mass Protection from Elements, Blade Barrier, Heroes' Feast, Cometfall, Banishment, Divine Punishment, Greater Command, the aliment spells, Recitation, Searing Light (all the light spells for that matter), Soundburst, and the list goes on. Yes you will have to get spell point regen and max out your Wisdom to get a lot of them to work well in LE, but the same can be said of all spells these days.

When I look at it, I look at what I gain with what I lose. +2 saves? I can get +14 with minimal effort into paladin.

The "raid healing" capstone. Now the only place I've done much raid healing is WoW. But in that, I found consistent, reliable healing to be best . Not a 1 in 5 chance of having a "max healing" with chance of crit. I don't plan on raid healing, so this is worthless.

Implacable foe is unimpressive in every single way. I've gotten more from a warlock, ravager, and I'd even take Reign over this ability. It has a five minute cooldown!

Personally, I think cleric needs to be redone before monk, but the favored soul redo will hopefully redo warpriest at least.

I think I'm going to take a pass on cleric for now and do a run with warlock to see whether three runs for conjuration is worth it.

[Vish]

Clerics look like ****
But that is to keep them in check
They is the most secretest weapon of ddo

For just past lives,
Maybe 11/9 cleric warlock

There was a build over in the battleclerics thread in custom
A few warlock builds
For minimizing the pain...

But I would try a melee, and a pure divine disciple,
Just to let you know the score

That's what's completionist is about right?

Know the angles from a WISdom point of view

[JOTMON]

Cleric is a dead class.
hopefully it will get resurrected with a divine pact pass.. something like pacts for Warlocks...

Enhancement trees suck. Radiant Servant is too expensive to splash into, so it becomes the primary with splashes in the other two meh trees..
Clerics are lacking SLA's and low cost healing sources.
Resources are insufficient for todays clerics.. back when the game was level 12 even 16ish.. a cleric could cycle heal scrolls into the arsenal..
Undead dps sucks.. clerics should be the ideal undead destroyers.. any cleric that walks into a room should cause lesser undead to explode without any focus... a focussed cleric should be a holy undead decimator...

Todays cleric is mana inefficient and heavily blue bar dependant, and ultimately inadequate to the task of current day gaming demand..
Its too bad they didn't get evolved very well with the level progression of the game.
If only the Dev's hadn't ignored the cleric cry for help followed by protests/strikes back in 2010...
hard to reap fruitful harvest when you ignore the development and growth of the crops.

[Enoach]

Cleric is a dead class.
hopefully it will get resurrected with a divine pact pass.. something like pacts for Warlocks...

Enhancement trees suck. Radiant Servant is too expensive to splash into, so it becomes the primary with splashes in the other two meh trees..
Clerics are lacking SLA's and low cost healing sources.
Resources are insufficient for todays clerics.. back when the game was level 12 even 16ish.. a cleric could cycle heal scrolls into the arsenal..
Undead dps sucks.. clerics should be the ideal undead destroyers.. any cleric that walks into a room should cause lesser undead to explode without any focus... a focussed cleric should be a holy undead decimator...

Todays cleric is mana inefficient and heavily blue bar dependant, and ultimately inadequate to the task of current day gaming demand..
Its too bad they didn't get evolved very well with the level progression of the game.
If only the Dev's hadn't ignored the cleric cry for help followed by protests/strikes back in 2010...
hard to reap fruitful harvest when you ignore the development and growth of the crops.

I disagree that it is a dead class, I do agree that it needs an overhaul.

• Domains - Much like the Warlock Pact
• Add additional faiths/gods with more weapon options
• Revamp the trees, costs (AP), benefits and review abilities that have cooldowns vs length of benefit and make adjustments.

The biggest issue the game direction has brought to Divine classes such as the cleric is that active mass healing use to be efficient healing. This is no longer true as the direction of the game has players more spread out.

[JOTMON]

I disagree that it is a dead class, I do agree that it needs an overhaul.

• Domains - Much like the Warlock Pact
• Add additional faiths/gods with more weapon options
• Revamp the trees, costs (AP), benefits and review abilities that have cooldowns vs length of benefit and make adjustments.

The biggest issue the game direction has brought to Divine classes such as the cleric is that active mass healing use to be efficient healing. This is no longer true as the direction of the game has players more spread out.

[savingsoul]

I disagree that it is a dead class, I do agree that it needs an overhaul.

• Domains - Much like the Warlock Pact
• Add additional faiths/gods with more weapon options
• Revamp the trees, costs (AP), benefits and review abilities that have cooldowns vs length of benefit and make adjustments.

The biggest issue the game direction has brought to Divine classes such as the cleric is that active mass healing use to be efficient healing. This is no longer true as the direction of the game has players more spread out.

I've seen plenty of (pure) clerics around. Actually, quite a few lately. Not sure what it is, but I can feel the astral vibrations. The cleric class is certainly not dead. Besides, there's no artistry in playing an overpowered class -- currently Warlock. Much better to take on a challenge like the cleric class.

I agree that cleric needs some updating/love along the lines listed above. However, I disagree with the last statement. Referring to something as vague as "the direction of the game" just goes to show the unwitting *lie* that it is. Don't perpetuate *the lie*! Every time someone talks that way, they are simply perpetuating a lie. There isn't anything about the deep mechanics of the game that favors spreading out--as long as players and their teams are seriously willing to take on a challenge and raise the base level of difficulty at which they are playing.

There will always be occasions when spreading out might be a good strategy, but nowadays such "spreading out" has more to do with the deluge of power (e.g. loot gen and past lives) that has people mindlessly, chaotically, and effortlessly running through quests without any need for strategy or respect for group dynamics. And, OMG, it is soooooooo f****** boring! One of the greatest things about the game back in the day was that people built relationships around their roles and style of play in ways that complemented each other. The game flourished because building relationships and inter-dependencies is part of great gaming and good business. The team was a microcosm that reflected the thriving DDO community.

There's also probably no need far an additional level of difficulty beyond elite. Rather, people should simply be playing at a higher base level of difficulty. Has it ever occurred to these people that you can simply play at a higher base level? Face it, people, when you have so many past lives your character is already effectively at a higher base level--let alone when you have access to such powerful gear. Yep, everyone is simply doing *favor runs* 24/7--but getting XP for it! Ha! For example, if you are currently playing a warlock with several past lives and uber gear (especially without bumping up the base level of your quests), then you have *nothing* to be proud of. Moreover, since at endgame there is no way for you to bump up the base level of your quests (especially as a warlock), at endgame you should have nothing but shame.

I have *much* more respect for people who can play a first-lifer effectively using newly-gathered gear on a challenging class like a cleric (especially in epic or legendary content).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo_DMGc2v5o
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5837244

[savingsoul]

Todays cleric is mana inefficient and heavily blue bar dependant, and ultimately inadequate to the task of current day gaming demand...

That's probably true of some offensive casting clerics. However, many clerics I'm familiar with use ameliorating strike, positive energy aura, and/or positive energy burst, none of which are dependent on sp; ameliorating strike is not even dependent on turns. Sure, the clerics I'm interested in and have played use sp as well for healing as necessary, but they are hardly starving for sp.

Its too bad they didn't get evolved very well with the level progression of the game.
If only the Dev's hadn't ignored the cleric cry for help followed by protests/strikes back in 2010...
hard to reap fruitful harvest when you ignore the development and growth of the crops.

Well, if anything, the devs have slightly undermined the role of cleric, which is key to the whole group dynamic that had the game flourishing, while several players have gravely misunderstood and maligned it. If the cleric is to be updated properly, both players and devs should first properly update their attitudes and knowledge of the role of cleric beforehand.

[Enderoc]

Do an Elven Arcane Archer Cleric of the silver flame, taking combat expertise (why not? Your heal spells from light to critical are all going to be notch so cooldown is a joke....and you aren't going to spam your AOE damage spells or buffs)... that way your investments in warpriest and Arcane Archer would coincide. You will have great PRR by Epic if you done anything in the martial sphere, and all your spellpower will affect your elemental imbues.

Combat Expertise, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise shot, Improved Critical ranged, Improved Precise Shot, Many Shot.

There are devotion items and healing amp items galore...you really dont need to spend feats on boosting them. Besides Meta-magics burn through SP, and usually for a healer are totally overkill.

Instead of Precision choose the tier 5 Acid Arrows for destruction.

[Tlorrd]

Understanding the caster cleric ... I mainly play a caster (sometimes a melee on my other main alt), however I have played clerics a long time and build various versions of the caster cleric. Understanding the synergies of multiclasss vs pure and EDs with enhancements can greatly increase cleric potential.

For wisdom based caster clerics there are a few things to keep in mind.

No SR spells such as Holy Smite, Order's Wrath are will save CCs that can be spammed before the CC runs out

Kiting around a symbol of death and blade barrier can devastate mobs

Multiclass clerics of say 16/2/2 (Cleric/Wiz/FVS), you can build around efficient maximize x2 and just rewards

Sunbolt regular spell that is maximized can crit for 3-4k+ and spammed every 3 secs (or less, 2.4sec to be exact if you have evocation familiarity and alacrity), you line up mobs (like with IPS) and mow them down. This takes a little gaming skill and sp cost is like 13 at cap.

17/3 Cleric/Warlock evocation based can cone EB (not for damage) but for -4 Fort Reduction and then add all your evo DCs to use burst of glacial wrath for stun or implosion (again evo familiarity and alacrity) and can spam that every 45 secs

Burden of Sin has 45% to reduce str/dex by up to 10 (-5 to reflex saves)

Sunburst DD spell is a no fail blindness AOE as is Sunbeam for single target ... no fail!

I can get my Wisdom as a min/max to be 84+ sustainable and 90+ situationally.

Radiant servant healing can be unbelievable, aura criting for 500-600+, close wounds (a free quickened spell) for 400-500+ and its single digit sp cost is very nice. And capstone of RS is bugged in that it sometimes does not come off the epic moment when healing on aura alone.

I'm not saying cleric doesn't need some major love in an overhaul, but you can find synergies to make life a little more pleasant and realize that it can be viable in a different way, you need to plan for the quest and mobs you are going against to get the most out of your cleric and there is little room for mistakes. ... I'll post some vids soon of these various build techniques.

[Tlorrd]

So here is a quick clip ... Level 26 17/3 Cleric/Warlock DC/Spell pen build from EE Servants of Overlord. Nothing special but just an example. Use Warlock cone EB to AOE reduce fort saves by -4 when needed. Tainted spell casting gives +2 DCs for 20 seconds, again when needed. Consume trait can reduce spell resistance by up to -10 when needed. Shadows upon you can reduce saves by -12 when needed.



https://vimeo.com/176410594

[Svartelric]

The cluelessness in this thread is overwhelming... Cleric makes for a great splash on PDK / Pally CHA based intimitank :P

[Tlorrd]

Cleric needs some revamping, but it can still solo EE and LE quests ... Pure cleric level 30, EA ED, forgot to do twists even. But I may regret posting this if devs then think cleric is ok.