Death Knight= Lord Soth?

[Aurora1979]

I was just running through Lords of dust and noticed the death knights. |It never really occurred to me before.

When I was young and getting into D&D I only really read the DragonLance books.

Lord Soth was a BEAST though. A cohort of Banshees, skeletal knights, chariots pulled by skeletal horses.... His Nightmare.

How come the death knights in DDO are so..... pony.

Is it a world thing, is it a translation to game thing?

Speaking of which, if the Hero's of the dragonlance saga where in Ebberon, in our game, as they appear during the war of the dragons. What sort of levels/ classes would they be?

Just some musings really...........

[Marshal_Lannes]

Well remember, when Lords of Dust came out the Death Knights were a bit more formidable. There is also Dagan who is a Death Knight in Thunderholme. Since I am sure they do not have the rights to Dragonlance, they can't bring in Lord Soth and maybe can't even use his likeness. Personally I think Lord Soth would function best as a powerful sub-boss like Sulomades in ToD. As for a hypothetical of what if on the dragonlance characters...

Laurana would be an elven Paladin. She was more a leader than a fighter, but if you want to portray the Golden General with a dragon lance you could make her a THF L20 Paladin with Sireth. Tourney Armor is gold so that fits her.

Tannis would be a half-elven Ranger/fighter mix. DWS/Tempest would be the most accurate.

Tasselhoff a halfling L20 Rogue, 40 points in TA tree, some in mechanic for stealth skills, some in Harper.

Sturm hmm...in the AD&D dragon lance book they make Knights of Solomnia a character class. I guess we stick with that idea and make him a PDK fighter, S&B.

Caramon, Kitiara and Flint are all fighters.

Raistlin is a rather ineffective L20 wizard in the game. The spells of the AD&D world really don't translate to the game.

Crysania is a cleric but you can't use spells except for cure disease and have to look sad and conflicted in all your quests.

[Aurora1979]

Well remember, when Lords of Dust came out the Death Knights were a bit more formidable. There is also Dagan who is a Death Knight in Thunderholme. Since I am sure they do not have the rights to Dragonlance, they can't bring in Lord Soth and maybe can't even use his likeness. Personally I think Lord Soth would function best as a powerful sub-boss like Sulomades in ToD. As for a hypothetical of what if on the dragonlance characters...

Laurana would be an elven Paladin. She was more a leader than a fighter, but if you want to portray the Golden General with a dragon lance you could make her a THF L20 Paladin with Sireth. Tourney Armor is gold so that fits her.

Tannis would be a half-elven Ranger/fighter mix. DWS/Tempest would be the most accurate.

Tasselhoff a halfling L20 Rogue, 40 points in TA tree, some in mechanic for stealth skills, some in Harper.

Sturm hmm...in the AD&D dragon lance book they make Knights of Solomnia a character class. I guess we stick with that idea and make him a PDK fighter, S&B.

Caramon, Kitiara and Flint are all fighters.

Raistlin is a rather ineffective L20 wizard in the game. The spells of the AD&D world really don't translate to the game.

Crysania is a cleric but you can't use spells except for cure disease and have to look sad and conflicted in all your quests.

Crysania.. lol

I havent run thunderholme yet so I'll have to have a look into that. It would be sweet to see a sub boss DK. I guess though, like vampires, what in the books were rare and terrifying in game are just standard mobs.

Raistlin always annoyed me, even though he was one of my favorite characters. He was clearly powerful, beating the white wizard dude in his test, beating back fistandathisname and then takhesis but apart from the MASSIVE shows of power the rest were petty. A fireball here, charm there but most "light" and "featherfall"

The rest are good shouts though. I always thought of Sturm/ Knights of Solomina as Paladin too, as well as Laurana though I had her down as more of a fighter your reasoning is sound.

[FranOhmsford]

Well remember, when Lords of Dust came out the Death Knights were a bit more formidable. There is also Dagan who is a Death Knight in Thunderholme. Since I am sure they do not have the rights to Dragonlance, they can't bring in Lord Soth and maybe can't even use his likeness. Personally I think Lord Soth would function best as a powerful sub-boss like Sulomades in ToD. As for a hypothetical of what if on the dragonlance characters...


Crysania is a cleric but you can't use spells except for cure disease and have to look sad and conflicted in all your quests.

Who is Crysania?
The Cleric in Dragonlance is Goldmoon.

As for Lord Soth - He's got a Realm in Ravenloft, He's way more powerful than Sully!

[Aurora1979]

Who is Crysania?
The Cleric in Dragonlance is Goldmoon.

As for Lord Soth - He's got a Realm in Ravenloft, He's way more powerful than Sully!

Isnt Crysania the one that Raistlin takes back in time to sort out the high cleric that caused the cataclysim?

I think he needed to use her to get into the dark Queens world or something.

[Baktiotha]

Tanis is explicitly stated NOT to be a ranger. He is explicitly described as a fighter who happens to have feats that mirror a ranger. But, he has none of the ranger class abilities. In DDO he would still be a pure fighter.

Caramon, Riverwind and Flint are explicitly stated to be fighters as well. These all come from the original authors. There is no reason to treat them as barbarians in DDO.

Goldmoon is explicitly identified as a cleric. I am not sure if she should be considered a favored soul in DDO. The first Dragonlance books date to 1984 and favored soul wasn't introduced until 2003.

Sturm is a knight. I am nearly positive that Solamnia is a place and not a deity. While he is no doubt LG he is probably a fighter in DDO rather than a paladin.

Raistlin is a wizard. He is most probably much higher level than the rest of the group and they are probably suffering XP loss due to power leveling. He is extremely powerful but limited due to his physical condition. He also follows D&D rules regarding spells per day vs DDO rules that include spell points. In DDO he probably should be represented by a minimal CON (with CON negatives from items if possible) and very low INT (to limit spell points) wizard who also happens to have only middling CHA, STR, DEX and WIS. Probably initial character generation with no build points in CON and only enough in INT so that level ups will allow max spell level. Then no gear or tomes to increase INT, instead spell power items and spell penetration and DC items/feats/etc. Very hard to replicate in DDO I would think.

[Aurora1979]

Tanis is explicitly stated NOT to be a ranger. He is explicitly described as a fighter who happens to have feats that mirror a ranger. But, he has none of the ranger class abilities. In DDO he would still be a pure fighter.

Caramon, Riverwind and Flint are explicitly stated to be fighters as well. These all come from the original authors. There is no reason to treat them as barbarians in DDO.

Goldmoon is explicitly identified as a cleric. I am not sure if she should be considered a favored soul in DDO. The first Dragonlance books date to 1984 and favored soul wasn't introduced until 2003.

Sturm is a knight. I am nearly positive that Solamnia is a place and not a deity. While he is no doubt LG he is probably a fighter in DDO rather than a paladin.

Raistlin is a wizard. He is most probably much higher level than the rest of the group and they are probably suffering XP loss due to power leveling. He is extremely powerful but limited due to his physical condition. He also follows D&D rules regarding spells per day vs DDO rules that include spell points. In DDO he probably should be represented by a minimal CON (with CON negatives from items if possible) and very low INT (to limit spell points) wizard who also happens to have only middling CHA, STR, DEX and WIS. Probably initial character generation with no build points in CON and only enough in INT so that level ups will allow max spell level. Then no gear or tomes to increase INT, instead spell power items and spell penetration and DC items/feats/etc. Very hard to replicate in DDO I would think.

When you say expicitly stated, in the books? I dont remember that much to be honest.

Solomina is a place yea, but I still thought of them, the order of the rose guys anyway as paladins.

I guess, with the, basically, absence of gods they couldnt really be pladins until the return. Having said that, because of the fact they are certainly, supposed to be, lawful good I just always imagined them as such.

Huma on board a dragon with a lance, fighting for Paladine would certainly seem to fit the bill. But thats all long dead history by the time the books start.

Also, your assessment on Raistlins fair, I would just say one thing though, for all the dumping of stats you are going to need to go and solo a god on their own home plane.

Caramon and flint are definelty fights, RIverwind I'm not so sure. I dont think barbarians were the same class thing as they are now back then.

I think they used to be fighters with some special abilities rather than their own class.

He comes from a Nomadic tribe, wears outlandish clothing. Is distru****l of people from larger societies and gets battle rage. In ddo Id say barbarian would be a fair class for him. If not you'd want to play him as a barbaric fighter.

[FranOhmsford]

Tanis is explicitly stated NOT to be a ranger. He is explicitly described as a fighter who happens to have feats that mirror a ranger. But, he has none of the ranger class abilities. In DDO he would still be a pure fighter.

Not in the books he isn't.

And in DDO the 6 Ranger levels would be pretty obvious to get those Ranger Feats.

Also remember that back in those days Rangers didn't get any Spellcasting ability until Lvl 7 or 8 - I think we can safely give him Barkskin and Cure Light Wounds in DDO though.

Caramon, Riverwind and Flint are explicitly stated to be fighters as well. These all come from the original authors. There is no reason to treat them as barbarians in DDO.

Riverwind is blatantly a Barbarian - And Barbarian in itself was not a Class back then, it was a Fighter Kit.
Today he'd be an Occult Slayer with a side order of FB.

Caramon and Flint definitely had Barbarian as at least a Dual-Class.

Goldmoon is explicitly identified as a cleric. I am not sure if she should be considered a favored soul in DDO. The first Dragonlance books date to 1984 and favored soul wasn't introduced until 2003.

Yes Favoured Soul was not a thing back then but as the one and only person in the entirety of Krynn who the Gods gave Divine Powers to at that point in Krynn's history she IS a FavSoul!
She did NOT ask for her Powers, She did NOT Worship as a Cleric prior to being given those Powers - She was chosen by the Gods and not the other way round - She IS A FAVOURED SOUL!

Sturm is a knight. I am nearly positive that Solamnia is a place and not a deity. While he is no doubt LG he is probably a fighter in DDO rather than a paladin.

The Knights of Solamnia are Paladins without a Paladin's Powers - But that's because at that time in Krynn's history the Gods aren't giving out those Powers - Sturm's a Paladin though perhaps 2 Pally/ the rest Fighter might fit him in DDO.

Raistlin is a wizard. He is most probably much higher level than the rest of the group and they are probably suffering XP loss due to power leveling. He is extremely powerful but limited due to his physical condition. He also follows D&D rules regarding spells per day vs DDO rules that include spell points. In DDO he probably should be represented by a minimal CON (with CON negatives from items if possible) and very low INT (to limit spell points) wizard who also happens to have only middling CHA, STR, DEX and WIS. Probably initial character generation with no build points in CON and only enough in INT so that level ups will allow max spell level. Then no gear or tomes to increase INT, instead spell power items and spell penetration and DC items/feats/etc. Very hard to replicate in DDO I would think.

Now this is just ludicrous!

Raistlin is low level - His highest level spell at that time was FIREBALL!
That means he cannot possibly have been higher lvl than 6 and more likely 5 as he'd only just learned Fireball!

I'd give him Con, Dex and Str Penalties yes but his Charisma and Int are maxed out and he's pretty wise too - He's the guy Tanis turns to for advice even though Sturm doesn't trust him!

Raistlin is known to use Charm Spells often - In AD&D 2nd Ed. A Specialist Enchanter required at least 16 Charisma {possibly 17} as well as minimum 12 Int!

Raistlin is Evil Aligned and a Generalist Wizard who would probably go Enchantment Archmage with secondary Evoc in DDO.


Oh....Raistlin does get more powerful later on {he's at least lvl 9 when he goes to take the Wizard's test} but then again so do the rest.

[Uska]

Isnt Crysania the one that Raistlin takes back in time to sort out the high cleric that caused the cataclysim?

I think he needed to use her to get into the dark Queens world or something.

Yes

[Marshal_Lannes]

Who is Crysania?
The Cleric in Dragonlance is Goldmoon.

As for Lord Soth - He's got a Realm in Ravenloft, He's way more powerful than Sully!

The cleric in the first trilogy is Goldmoon (who got written out rather quickly). It was never specified which book, it was just 'Dragonlance'. Crysania is one of the main characters in the 2nd trilogy Test/Time of the Twins. There are obviously a ton of characters we haven't touched on yet including ones from the past age like Huma and Kith-Kinan.

[FranOhmsford]

I was just running through Lords of dust and noticed the death knights. |It never really occurred to me before.

When I was young and getting into D&D I only really read the DragonLance books.

Lord Soth was a BEAST though. A cohort of Banshees, skeletal knights, chariots pulled by skeletal horses.... His Nightmare.

How come the death knights in DDO are so..... pony.

Is it a world thing, is it a translation to game thing?

Speaking of which, if the Hero's of the dragonlance saga where in Ebberon, in our game, as they appear during the war of the dragons. What sort of levels/ classes would they be?

Just some musings really...........

Lord Soth isn't just any old Death Knight, He's the ruler of a Ravenloft Realm and the reason that Realm exists!

The Abbot isn't just any old Lich.
Velah isn't just any old Dragon.



As for the Heroes of the Lance:

Caramon Majere = Lvl 3 Human Fighter / 2 Barbarian
Raistlin Majere = Lvl 5 Human Wizard {His highest level spell is Fireball}
Tanis Half-Elven = Lvl 5 Half Elf Ranger / 2 Fighter {Tanis is the Leader of the Group and the second eldest after Flint}.
Sturm Brightblade = Lvl 5 Human Paladin
Flint = Lvl 7 Dwarf Barbarian {The oldest character and long retired from adventuring at the beginning of the books}
Tasslehoff Burrfoot = Lvl 7 Kender Rogue {Rogues levelled faster than other characters back then}
Goldmoon = Lvl 5 Human Favoured Soul {Cleric back then but more like a FavSoul by DDO's standards}
Riverwind = Lvl 5 Human Barbarian

The Heroes of the Lance were NOT High Level, They started out as veterans of a few adventures but nothing major.

By the end of the first 3 books none of the Heroes are significantly more powerful than at the start but:

Caramon Lvl 5 Fighter / 3 Barbarian
Raistlin Lvl 8 Wizard
Tanis Lvl 6 Ranger / 3 Fighter
Sturm Lvl 6 Paladin*
Flint Lvl 8 Barbarian
Tasslehoff Lvl 10 Rogue
Goldmoon Lvl 9 FavSoul
Riverwind Lvl 8 Barbarian

Taking them to Lvl 30:

Caramon Lvl 12 Fighter / 8 Barbarian {Legendary Dreadnought}
Raistlin Lvl 20 Wizard {Magister}
Tanis Lvl 14 Fighter / 6 Ranger {Fury of the Wild}
Tasslehoff Lvl 20 Rogue {Shiradi Champion - Tas is a Thrower}
Goldmoon Lvl 20 FavSoul {Exalted Angel}
Riverwind Lvl 20 Barbarian {Fury of the Wild}
Sturm and Flint would not get to Lvl 30.


Oh and despite Raistlin's alignment NO HE IS NOT A PALE MASTER!

[Aurora1979]

Lord Soth isn't just any old Death Knight, He's the ruler of a Ravenloft Realm and the reason that Realm exists!

The Abbot isn't just any old Lich.
Velah isn't just any old Dragon.

Good point, I forgot about the ravenloft backstory! Did he ever go one on one with Strad? I seem to remember them meeting in a book.... Though I might be mixing it with the one about a friendly vampire from FR.

So, some more crosee world them, how do you think The Abbott would fare against.... Say Strad, because I cant think of any other Lich's

What about Velah V Cinder or Cyan from the DL Chronicles?

As for the Heroes of the Lance:

Caramon Majere = Lvl 3 Human Fighter / 2 Barbarian
Raistlin Majere = Lvl 5 Human Wizard {His highest level spell is Fireball}
Tanis Half-Elven = Lvl 5 Half Elf Ranger / 2 Fighter {Tanis is the Leader of the Group and the second eldest after Flint}.
Sturm Brightblade = Lvl 5 Human Paladin
Flint = Lvl 7 Dwarf Barbarian {The oldest character and long retired from adventuring at the beginning of the books}
Tasslehoff Burrfoot = Lvl 7 Kender Rogue {Rogues levelled faster than other characters back then}
Goldmoon = Lvl 5 Human Favoured Soul {Cleric back then but more like a FavSoul by DDO's standards}
Riverwind = Lvl 5 Human Barbarian

The Heroes of the Lance were NOT High Level, They started out as veterans of a few adventures but nothing major.

By the end of the first 3 books none of the Heroes are significantly more powerful than at the start but:

Caramon Lvl 5 Fighter / 3 Barbarian
Raistlin Lvl 8 Wizard
Tanis Lvl 6 Ranger / 3 Fighter
Sturm Lvl 6 Paladin*
Flint Lvl 8 Barbarian
Tasslehoff Lvl 10 Rogue
Goldmoon Lvl 9 FavSoul
Riverwind Lvl 8 Barbarian

Taking them to Lvl 30:

Caramon Lvl 12 Fighter / 8 Barbarian {Legendary Dreadnought}
Raistlin Lvl 20 Wizard {Magister}
Tanis Lvl 14 Fighter / 6 Ranger {Fury of the Wild}
Tasslehoff Lvl 20 Rogue {Shiradi Champion - Tas is a Thrower}
Goldmoon Lvl 20 FavSoul {Exalted Angel}
Riverwind Lvl 20 Barbarian {Fury of the Wild}
Sturm and Flint would not get to Lvl 30.


Oh and despite Raistlin's alignment NO HE IS NOT A PALE MASTER!

Oh you have them waaaay lower level than I would have guessed. Although, when I played PnP we didnt zerg up to level 20 so I guess the high levels are an in-game thing moreso.

I wouldnt of said raist was a PM either.... maybe Dalamar, his apprentice. He was a bit shady.

[Braegan]

Lord Soth isn't just any old Death Knight, He's the ruler of a Ravenloft Realm and the reason that Realm exists!

Pretty much this. Lord Soth wasn't a Death Knight, he was THE Death Knight.

Regarding the Heroes of the Lance, their exact level depends on what point you are referring to. I used to own nearly everything I could get my hands on as far as a source book.

In the beginning of the trilogy they were almost all 4th level. In the 1st ED Dragonlance Hardcover Source Book (which times during the Twins Trilogy) they were mostly 14th level, save Raistlin who was level 20. Bear in mind the lore of Dragonlance, getting to level 20 attracted the attention of the deities so it was a rarity that anyone ever made it that far.

Their classes according to the sourcebook line up with pretty much what you'd expect.

Tanis, Sturm, Flint, Caramon = all fighters. Sturm died before being properly sworn into the Knighthood.

Tiki was a fighter/rog

Riverwind was a ranger

Goldmoon was a cleric of Mishakal

Laurana was a fighter, as was Kitiara

Raistlin was a wizard

Tass was a Handler

[die]

I was just running through Lords of dust and noticed the death knights. |It never really occurred to me before.

When I was young and getting into D&D I only really read the DragonLance books.

Lord Soth was a BEAST though. A cohort of Banshees, skeletal knights, chariots pulled by skeletal horses.... His Nightmare.

How come the death knights in DDO are so..... pony.

Is it a world thing, is it a translation to game thing?

Speaking of which, if the Hero's of the dragonlance saga where in Ebberon, in our game, as they appear during the war of the dragons. What sort of levels/ classes would they be?

Just some musings really...........

Not to mention his fear affects, you better have balls of steel if your going to stand near him.