Pally 14-15 and then _________? OR What does Pal 15-20 get you?

[Grailhawk]

Hot **** 40 MP 0_0...what's your take on the Warlock ES tree (constant arua) as opposed to the FTR splash we've discussed?

Assuming you get the ES core lv6 your aura ticks every 4 seconds for 3d6 + 3d4 damage. 3d6+3d4 = 18 damage per tick base.
That's scaled by spell power so lets assume you go all out on spell power and have a 800. This is scaled by 130%. So we are at (100+ 1.3(800))/100 = 11.4 multiplier 11.4 * 18 = 205.2. 205.2/4 = 51.3 DPS.

Add in the 3d6 light damage you get out of ES just for the sake of argument that brings base up to 28.5 * 11.4 = 324.9/4 = 81.225 DPS

Not even close to worth the AP your putting into it IMO.

Assuming Khopesh (crit power 1.90) and 2 attacks per second (takes about 20% doublestrike to get that on a THF with out haste boost) for 40 mp to add 81.225 DPS you need x base damage avg

x * 1.9 * 2 * 0.4 = 81.225
1.52x = 81.225
x = 54

If your average damage after die w and +mod is grater then 54 your better off with the MP

[Kenpachi33]

Assuming you get the ES core lv6 your aura ticks every 4 seconds for 3d6 + 3d4 damage. 3d6+3d4 = 18 damage per tick base.
That's scaled by spell power so lets assume you go all out on spell power and have a 800. This is scaled by 130%. So we are at (100+ 1.3(800))/100 = 11.4 multiplier 11.4 * 18 = 205.2. 205.2/4 = 51.3 DPS.

Add in the 3d6 light damage you get out of ES just for the sake of argument that brings base up to 28.5 * 11.4 = 324.9/4 = 81.225 DPS

Not even close to worth the AP your putting into it IMO.

Assuming Khopesh (crit power 1.90) and 2 attacks per second (takes about 20% doublestrike to get that on a THF with out haste boost) for 40 mp to add 81.225 DPS you need x base damage avg

x * 1.9 * 2 * 0.4 = 81.225
1.52x = 81.225
x = 54

If your average damage after die w and +mod is grater then 54 your better off with the MP

Kopesh is Single handed no?

So for THF, it seems fighter brings much much more to the table...awesome thanks Grail!

Thanks to everyone that replied in the thread! Guess I'll go PAL/FTR!

[Kenpachi33]

Assuming you get the ES core lv6 your aura ticks every 4 seconds for 3d6 + 3d4 damage. 3d6+3d4 = 18 damage per tick base.
That's scaled by spell power so lets assume you go all out on spell power and have a 800. This is scaled by 130%. So we are at (100+ 1.3(800))/100 = 11.4 multiplier 11.4 * 18 = 205.2. 205.2/4 = 51.3 DPS.

Add in the 3d6 light damage you get out of ES just for the sake of argument that brings base up to 28.5 * 11.4 = 324.9/4 = 81.225 DPS

Not even close to worth the AP your putting into it IMO.

Assuming Khopesh (crit power 1.90) and 2 attacks per second (takes about 20% doublestrike to get that on a THF with out haste boost) for 40 mp to add 81.225 DPS you need x base damage avg

x * 1.9 * 2 * 0.4 = 81.225
1.52x = 81.225
x = 54

If your average damage after die w and +mod is grater then 54 your better off with the MP

Sorry for doublepost, but:

How would you do his stats/feats now that I'm splashing FTR--standard pally spread be fine (16-6-18-8-8-16)? Feat wise, I can't think of anything from FTR specifically that makes or breaks this build.

Also, and I hope this is the last Q I have but I wanna be sure, in what order would you focus the trees? BF, Kensei, KotC, SD?

[Enoach]

Another thought: won't rage negate the ability to cast reconstruct mid combat?

I realize you have already decided on the Fighter levels - Which is a good choice for DPS, but you are thinking of Barbarian or Madstone Rage. Those are the types of rages that prevent spell casting. If the Rage Spell prevented casting I'm sure you would not have seen any wizards taking this spell and you would have a lot of complaints in party from other caster types when a HAGE (Haste+Rage) was cast.

While I agree Haste/Rage/Displacement can be pulled from consumable sources like scrolls, potions and clickies. The advantage of self cast is that they can be longer duration (with extend), and it takes up less inventory space. Spell points are less of an issue if you also utilize swap in gear that can generate Temp Spell points or turn hits into SP like a con-op/torc.

While the elemental stances are not powerful on their own, they do apply extra damage that is based on Spell Power to the Cleave ability. I do agree that I hope the pass does something similar to what happened with AA Elemental Arrows and applies spell power to the extra damage. But, to be clear it is extra damage that you cannot get from any other source, you can still benefit from Artificer Imbue on top of that.

[unbongwah]

Fighter 6 Offers +40 Melee power between One with the Blade and Opportunity Attack.

You're forgetting you're giving up the +5 MP from Censure Outsiders and +10 MP from KotC capstone, so it's "only" a net gain of +25 MP. Well, +29 if you take Weap Focus + Spec with your bonus ftr feats.

[Kenpachi33]

You're forgetting you're giving up the +5 MP from Censure Outsiders and +10 MP from KotC capstone, so it's "only" a net gain of +25 MP. Well, +29 if you take Weap Focus + Spec with your bonus ftr feats.

What percentage of epic-level content is Evil/Outsiders/Demons/Devils?

I ask because I like the fact that I'll get 40 MP to everything, but if 80% of end game is the above, then wouldn't the capstone/Censure be a net gain on dmg to *most* end game content?

Are there fighter feats I'm not seeing that make FTR the optimal choice? Because if not, a difference of 25/29 MP is not as black and white as I previous thought if I'm able to kill the hardest content faster.

[Kenpachi33]

I realize you have already decided on the Fighter levels - Which is a good choice for DPS, but you are thinking of Barbarian or Madstone Rage. Those are the types of rages that prevent spell casting. If the Rage Spell prevented casting I'm sure you would not have seen any wizards taking this spell and you would have a lot of complaints in party from other caster types when a HAGE (Haste+Rage) was cast.

While I agree Haste/Rage/Displacement can be pulled from consumable sources like scrolls, potions and clickies. The advantage of self cast is that they can be longer duration (with extend), and it takes up less inventory space. Spell points are less of an issue if you also utilize swap in gear that can generate Temp Spell points or turn hits into SP like a con-op/torc.

While the elemental stances are not powerful on their own, they do apply extra damage that is based on Spell Power to the Cleave ability. I do agree that I hope the pass does something similar to what happened with AA Elemental Arrows and applies spell power to the extra damage. But, to be clear it is extra damage that you cannot get from any other source, you can still benefit from Artificer Imbue on top of that.

Yeah, I'm never overly full in my inv, so I think I could handle clickies, if it made the build that much stronger/sturdier overall--a slight inconvenience for a net gain.

Aha, yeah I have a mini-barb (lv 17) and that's the only iteration of rage i've used; that's great to know!

[Enoach]

Yeah, I'm never overly full in my inv, so I think I could handle clickies, if it made the build that much stronger/sturdier overall--a slight inconvenience for a net gain.

Aha, yeah I have a mini-barb (lv 17) and that's the only iteration of rage i've used; that's great to know!

might I suggest Rage Potions for your mini-barb, they stack

[maddong]

I have a pal 14/ranger 6 bf. I'm thinking I will be better off just going to fighter 20 bf. Is keeping any paladin levels still worth it?

[Grailhawk]

Kopesh is Single handed no?

So for THF, it seems fighter brings much much more to the table...awesome thanks Grail!

Thanks to everyone that replied in the thread! Guess I'll go PAL/FTR!

Sorry I tend to always default math at Khopesh probably cause i have a good deal of it memorized. Flachion has a 1.85 crit power so its not that far off.

Sorry for doublepost, but:

How would you do his stats/feats now that I'm splashing FTR--standard pally spread be fine (16-6-18-8-8-16)? Feat wise, I can't think of anything from FTR specifically that makes or breaks this build.

Also, and I hope this is the last Q I have but I wanna be sure, in what order would you focus the trees? BF, Kensei, KotC, SD?

The stat spread you list seams fine, 6 fighter adds 4 extra feats my choices would be Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Cleave and Great Cleave. Standard Paladin IMO is Power Attack (or Precision but since I want cleaves..), THF, ITHF, GTHF, IC: Slashing, Maximize, Quicken.

You're forgetting you're giving up the +5 MP from Censure Outsiders and +10 MP from KotC capstone, so it's "only" a net gain of +25 MP. Well, +29 if you take Weap Focus + Spec with your bonus ftr feats.

I was going on the assumption that he had already dismissed 20 Paladin. He was looking at Warlock and Wizard options.

[Kenpachi33]

Awesome GH, thanks again buddy.

From my research, it seems better to take your splash early (pre-15/20) then late, since a splash is supposed to add utility.

Would you go Pal-->Ftr6-->Pal to 20?

I'm guessing I focus on Kensei tree first?

[Enoach]

Awesome GH, thanks again buddy.

From my research, it seems better to take your splash early (pre-15/20) then late, since a splash is supposed to add utility.

Would you go Pal-->Ftr6-->Pal to 20?

I'm guessing I focus on Kensei tree first?

I would outline your levels using the following

1. What feats you are planning - Which ones are available on the Fighter Bonus feats and make sure they line up with meeting the requirements
2. What abilities you want earlier
3. What Enhancements you want earlier - Keep in mind while you only need 5 levels of class for tier 5, you still need 12 Character levels

When working with a multi-class build I strongly recommend using a builder.

My initial thought would be 2 PAL then 2 FTR to start with. This gets you save benefits of paladin as well as 3 Quick feats to jump start your build.

[Kenpachi33]

I would outline your levels using the following

1. What feats you are planning - Which ones are available on the Fighter Bonus feats and make sure they line up with meeting the requirements
2. What abilities you want earlier
3. What Enhancements you want earlier - Keep in mind while you only need 5 levels of class for tier 5, you still need 12 Character levels

When working with a multi-class build I strongly recommend using a builder.

My initial thought would be 2 PAL then 2 FTR to start with. This gets you save benefits of paladin as well as 3 Quick feats to jump start your build.

That's what I ended up doing, and focusing on BF and Kensei tree first, so I have some healing and a good martial headstart.

Thx again Enoach!

[Grailhawk]

Awesome GH, thanks again buddy.

From my research, it seems better to take your splash early (pre-15/20) then late, since a splash is supposed to add utility.

Would you go Pal-->Ftr6-->Pal to 20?

I'm guessing I focus on Kensei tree first?

1-6 Fighter 7-20 Paladin
L01: Power Attack, Cleave
L02: Weapon Focus
L03: THF
L04: Great Cleave
L06: Weapon Specialization, ITHF
L09: IC: Slashing
L12: GTHF
L15: Maximize Spell
L18: Quicken Spell

Focus on Kensei Strike with no Thought at level 6 is nice, and Cleave are worth more at low levels then higher levels.

[Kenpachi33]

1-6 Fighter 7-20 Paladin
L01: Power Attack, Cleave
L02: Weapon Focus
L03: THF
L04: Great Cleave
L06: Weapon Specialization, ITHF
L09: IC: Slashing
L12: GTHF
L15: Maximize Spell
L18: Quicken Spell

Focus on Kensei Strike with no Thought at level 6 is nice, and Cleave are worth more at low levels then higher levels.

Cheers!

[CrackedIce]

Since your Bladeforged CSW isn't really need and you want to do THF I would be looking at 14/6 Paladin/Fighter taking Tier 5's in Kensei + Strike with no Thought and using your level 4 spell slot for Zeal.

32 AP Kensei: Strike With No Thought, Haste Boost, Weapon Group Specialization III, Opportunity Attack, One With The Blade, Keen Edge
16 AP Bladeforged: Communion of Scribing, Power of the Forge
19 AP Knight: Slayer of Evil II, Divine Might, Divine Sacrifice, Extra Smite, Exalted Cleave
13 AP SDefender: Sacred Defense, Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 2), Improved Sacred Defense: Durable Defense, Improved Sacred Defense: Resilient Defense, Greater Sacred Defense: Tenacious Defense

Would do enhancements like that.

I actually think going 6 fighter 14 pali is better for swf - khopesh, bastard sword) I personally like 15 pali, 1 wizard, 4 fighter.
You take tier 5 in kotc for the AOE attacks, immunity to level drain, better amp and regenerating smites. Tied 4 fighter nets you the goodies there, while you pick up another AOE in core one of EK. 13 pts in defender and LD destiny and your set. (Take cleave instead of e exalted cleave)