Cannith Crafting Discussion - Part 2

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

Okay then! Ignore list it is then.

Now the rest of us can get back to talking about crafting like we were doing before you needed to come back to.......do whatever it was you were doing. THANK YOU.

[JoyfulEagle]

In the New Loot System:
- DR is Broken, that's a fact.

I hate to pour gas on this, but that is not a fact. It is your opinion about how the new damage "should" work.

Maybe you are right. Maybe not. It is an opinion. If you want Turbine to listen, stop claiming opinions as fact. It makes you, and by association us, less credible.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

I hate to pour gas on this, but that is not a fact. It is your opinion about how the new damage "should" work.

Maybe you are right. Maybe not. It is an opinion. If you want Turbine to listen, stop claiming opinions as fact. It makes you, and by association us, less credible.

I believe they have stated (they = devs) that this is broken.

[JoyfulEagle]

I believe they have stated (they = devs) that this is broken.

OK. I didn't see that. Perhas it is in a different thread, since it is technically not crafting related.

Thanks.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

OK. I didn't see that. Perhas it is in a different thread, since it is technically not crafting related.

Thanks.

Yeah it's not in this thread unless I missed it. Was a while ago, I couldn't even tell you where.

[Gremmlynn]

See above, the power ranges do not increase with a linear formula.

Hard to tell without seeing the formula and what sort of rounding it might use. Especially as the random loot system uses a level range, whereas CC will just use the top of the (normal) range. For instance, if the formula were something like ML/2.25 the rounding of fractions would make it appear non-linear.

This seems to about fit what you posted too.

[JoyfulEagle]

Hey, I just had a thought about something awesome that could be done in the new system.

If the properties don't dictate the level of the gear, then maybe we can update gear from level to level by applying a new ML shard, without having to re-craft the item.

We could keep the same item from level 1 through 30.

[Gremmlynn]

And? Who made that decision that affected the entire Player Community, without any Player Community feedback, without any Player Council feedback??? Are you satisfied with Stealth Draconian oversight of this game? I'm not, and I find it "broken" all the same, because we went from one "version" of this game to a different version in the New Loot system we now have. Why? It appears as a "Stealth Nerf" to power creep!

Frankly, to expect them to ask our permission for every change they make to their product, or to even fully explain those changes seems a bit unrealistic to me. While asking our opinion in a general sense makes sense, they also have to take what works best for them with the least disruption and with cost effectiveness taken into account when they make changes.

We always have the option to live with it or simply stop playing when changes are made that more favor Turbine's bottom line than what we may want.

[Aletys]

Frankly, to expect them to ask our permission for every change they make to their product, or to even fully explain those changes seems a bit unrealistic to me. While asking our opinion in a general sense makes sense, they also have to take what works best for them with the least disruption and with cost effectiveness taken into account when they make changes.

We always have the option to live with it or simply stop playing when changes are made that more favor Turbine's bottom line than what we may want.

Every decision? Of course not. But when it's a major change to an existing system, yes, they should take input before they finalize their decisions. And this is a major change.

I very much doubt that anything they're doing with CC is going to affect their bottom line, at least in a positive sense. I won't be buying anything CC related in the store if the new system stays the way it's been outlined. And I'm sure many others feel the same way.

Of course, if the crafters get so upset that they cancel subscriptions, well, that would indeed affect their bottom line. And if crafters mostly abandon CC because it no longer meets their needs, then they're going to have to explain to someone why they spent so much time & effort (translated $'s) developing something that is not being used.

I personally will wait to see what it looks like, but I doubt that I'll spend the time & effort to grind out the levels for something that looks likely to be pretty useless, since the rigid (inflexible) assignments simply will not work with much of my current named gear. And, if it's really bad, well, I have plenty of very good games that have been on the back burner for a while because I've been concentrating on DDO. I may have to consider canceling my VIP at the next renewal. While I enjoy this game, it won't be the end of the world for me if I do something else till they come to their senses.

[Cantor]

Hey, I just had a thought about something awesome that could be done in the new system.

If the properties don't dictate the level of the gear, then maybe we can update gear from level to level by applying a new ML shard, without having to re-craft the item.

We could keep the same item from level 1 through 30.

I posted this like 5 pages ago. Thus, I agree! please make this happen.

[Gremmlynn]

Every decision? Of course not. But when it's a major change to an existing system, yes, they should take input before they finalize their decisions. And this is a major change.

I very much doubt that anything they're doing with CC is going to affect their bottom line, at least in a positive sense. I won't be buying anything CC related in the store if the new system stays the way it's been outlined. And I'm sure many others feel the same way.

It goes beyond just buying things from the store. If it's to easy then it takes away from the time sink. If it's to good, it could take away from named items and thus effect sales there. If it's to complicated, it could chase potential crafters away. Etc.

There are a lot of subtle ways that potential changes can effect their bottom line and some of those they are not going to tell us about simply because telling people these are the ways they are maximizing the amount of money they get from us likely wouldn't go over well. Some of this seems to be about savings down the road through ease of upgrading (rather than the current CC system which seems to be to big a can of worms to even bother), as that was something they mentioned with the new loot system.

Of course, if the crafters get so upset that they cancel subscriptions, well, that would indeed affect their bottom line. And if crafters mostly abandon CC because it no longer meets their needs, then they're going to have to explain to someone why they spent so much time & effort (translated $'s) developing something that is not being used.

I personally will wait to see what it looks like, but I doubt that I'll spend the time & effort to grind out the levels for something that looks likely to be pretty useless, since the rigid (inflexible) assignments simply will not work with much of my current named gear. And, if it's really bad, well, I have plenty of very good games that have been on the back burner for a while because I've been concentrating on DDO. I may have to consider canceling my VIP at the next renewal. While I enjoy this game, it won't be the end of the world for me if I do something else till they come to their senses.

That's always a possibility as their is never a guarantee they will actually succeed with what they are attempting and there is likely to be some of that regardless what change they make. That's just how life works.

[LrdSlvrhnd]

Hey, I just had a thought about something awesome that could be done in the new system.

If the properties don't dictate the level of the gear, then maybe we can update gear from level to level by applying a new ML shard, without having to re-craft the item.

We could keep the same item from level 1 through 30.

I posted this like 5 pages ago. Thus, I agree! please make this happen.

Sadly, NoWorries nixed this idea (in the first thread, I believe?). Still gonna have to be completely redone from scratch.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

Sadly, NoWorries nixed this idea (in the first thread, I believe?). Still gonna have to be completely redone from scratch.

Bah.....that was a freaking fantastic idea.

[Aelonwy]

And because for whatever reason we have gone without official acknowledgement of these issues in this thread I am copy-pasting these quotes from dev tracker here.

This is an issue that we are aware of. It's not just limited to repeaters but is actually true of scaling damage effects on all ranged weapons which use ammo currently. Off the top of my head, while at home, I don't recall whether it affects thrown weapons but I do not believe it does. Regardless, I'll update you when progress is made in resolving it.

Absolutely! I will warn you in advance that I am overly wordy and this could become incomprehensible.

You've likely heard the new random loot system introduced in U29 as containing "scaling effects" what this means, in a "how the sausage is made" kind of way, is as follows:

Previous to U29 each and every thing seen on an item was its own separate effect. Dexterity +2 was an entirely different effect than Dexterity +3. They were relatively simple effects that displayed a static tooltip and applied a specific bonus to the character wearing them. Random loot would pull from a (large) list of effects appropriate for the ML of the item to apply to it when generating it. This system required the dev team to create an entirely new effect every single time a new value of that attribute/stat was desired.

With U29 an entirely new list of effects was created. This list included what we internally refer to as "power" values. Every new item has four power values on it: Prefix Power, Suffix Power, Extra Power, and Extra 2 Power. These power values are simply a number that the other new effects (such as Dexterity) use to determine what value of their bonus they should apply to the character. Now, for instance, Dexterity +2 and Dexterity +3 are the exact same effect (assuming they are in the same slot of the item as there are actually 4 of each effect) but the item they are on have different power values. Random loot now applies power values from the range allowed by the items ML and then applies a single prefix slot effect, a single suffix slot effect, and possibly a single extra slot effect from a much smaller list. This stops the dev team from needing to constantly be making entirely new effects when making new loot. Instead they can simply set the power values they want before applying the effects they want while knowing that it will scale appropriately.

Does this all make sense?

We are aware of this issue with Guard effects. The damage dealt should be scaling based on the under the hood power values of the item but currently are instead always outputting the base amount (despite the tooltip of the effects displaying what should be the correct damage values). I'll and let you know when we have any updates on resolving it.

It is not intended that new random gen loot effects don't bypass their appropriate alignment-based damage reduction. Consider it a bug.

We are working on some fixes for Spell Focus Mastery for update 32.

I went all the way back to February (when my comp got an upgrade/fix and I came back to the game). IIRC I read a comment at some point about handwraps having the same issue as ranged weapons where the xd6 damage on random gen handwraps did not appear to be scaling but I couldn't find the dev quote. I may have just missed it (searching titles) or it may have been in a larger thread about something else. If anyone knows where to find that quote please add it here. Also wouldn't hurt to add other dev quotes of issues/bugs with New Random Loot that could cause issues if integrated into future Cannith Crafting.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

i went all the way back to february (when my comp got an upgrade/fix and i came back to the game). Iirc i read a comment at some point about handwraps having the same issue as ranged weapons where the xd6 damage on random gen handwraps did not appear to be scaling but i couldn't find the dev quote. I may have just missed it (searching titles) or it may have been in a larger thread about something else. If anyone knows where to find that quote please add it here. Also wouldn't hurt to add other dev quotes of issues/bugs with new random loot that could cause issues if integrated into future cannith crafting.

ty!! +1

[Cordovan]

Thank you for the feedback, all. We're continuing this discussion in a new thread here.