Cannith Crafting Discussion - Part 2

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

snip
a design omission that would be totally counter-intuitive and downright bizarre snip

Or as we call it........DDO Updates.

[changelingamuck]

You are right that we will see more of the system as time progresses but you are sadly wrong about it being safe to assume anything.

I disagree that it's not safe to assume that an entire equipment slot wouldn't be left out of the revamped crafting for no apparent reason. I'm backing out of this thread now though because people can be free to worry about whatever they feel like even if I think that it's ridiculous.

I'm not going to push a shark-phobic person into the ocean just because I think it's ridiculous for them worry about the tiny chance that they'll be eaten by a shark either. So I probably should've just reserved comment and let the worrying unfold as it will.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

I disagree that it's not safe to assume that an entire equipment slot wouldn't be left out of the revamped crafting for no apparent reason. I'm backing out of this thread now though because people can be free to worry about whatever they feel like even if I think that it's ridiculous.

I'm not going to push a shark-phobic person into the ocean just because I think it's ridiculous for them worry about the tiny chance that they'll be eaten by a shark either. So I probably should've just reserved comment and let the worrying unfold as it will.

People are asking questions. Which is essentially the whole reason this thread exists and was made.

I'm not sure why you have a problem with that.

You are raising a fanboi shield when there is no incoming doooooommmm to deflect.

People are trying to get information. And you are over reacting.

[changelingamuck]

People are asking questions. Which is essentially the whole reason this thread exists and was made.

I'm not sure why you have a problem with that.

You are raising a fanboi shield when there is no incoming doooooommmm to deflect.

People are trying to get information. And you are over reacting.

Having a bare minimum of confidence enough to assume that huge bizarrely improbable, counter-intuitive design choices won't be made is not the same thing as raising a fanboi shield. They might give all elves antler horns in the next update too, but I'm confidently assuming that they're not going to. I was actually trying to reassure you. I'm out of this discussion now though. If it makes you feel better, I regret commenting.

[Kakow]

I regret commenting.

I feel for you as it seems you've become a lightning rod of condemnation for something most of us are not blaming YOU specifically for. It's just our collective experience and Turbine's decade plus-long track record of making bizarre, counter-intuitive design implementation in this game we enjoy playing despite its warts.

I generally try to stay out of the uber-long discussion threads as they become a shouting match between Camp A and Camp B. Generally. But in this case, there only seems to be one camp, those who craft. And we crafters want a system that works and doesn't have bizarre, counter-intuitive design decisions made...but sadly most of us fully expect for things like trinkets to be fubar'd as per Turbine's track record. I for one would absolutely LOVE to be proven wrong on day 1 of release, but again, 10 years of this has shown me that even my level of cynicism seems optimistic.

As a side note, you're our 2016 Player Council. You don't really get to bow out of discussions, and I appreciate that you've tried to allay fears, even if I cynically disagree with your confidence. What's more perturbing to me is the fact that you seem to be one of the very few PC members with the sack to debate here. Not asking you specifically, but where the hell is the rest of our illustrious representatives in this huge discussion I wonder. The PC forum tag should carry more responsibility than what most of them seem to be bearing. Kudos to you sir for the outreach.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

Having a bare minimum of confidence enough to assume that huge bizarrely improbable, counter-intuitive design choices won't be made is not the same thing as raising a fanboi shield. They might give all elves antler horns in the next update too, but I'm confidently assuming that they're not going to. I was actually trying to reassure you. I'm out of this discussion now though. If it makes you feel better, I regret commenting.

Counter intuitive like good damage not breaking good dr?
Hugely bizarre like not being able to decon new random loot AT ALL when it came out?
And the list goes ON AND ON.

Did you confidently assume those things would work?

Don't you wish somebody on a forum thread would have asked "Hey! Are we going to be able to decon this new random loot for essence when it comes out?"

Reassurance would be a DEV saying, "Hey yeah, we've got trinkets under control!" or "Yup, good damage will break good DR correctly now!"
Not a forum poster saying, "Hey guys, when do they ever release buggy updates without thorough testing?"

Lets be realistic here.

The fact that the silence has been fairly loud on these 2 things in a thread that has had magnificent communication, should be troubling.

Hopefully the players council ASKS QUESTIONS instead of just nodding and saying, "yup, yup, I trust you guys, just do whatever". Because it is people like that, that we need.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

snip
ASK, ask repeatedly, ask often, but above all ask politely. The devs are human too, they make mistakes, they forget things, they get overwhelmed by over-busy schedules. But there is no harm in us bringing up concerns that may have gone under the radar otherwise.

This sums it up.

[slarden]

Exactly this.

And since we haven't heard anything about it I'm picturing some devs right now going, "Oh! Eff! We forgot about trinkets! Hurry up and get something together and we'll send NoWorries back to the forums and it will look like we had a plan all along!"

a good reason to think about trinkets is also because supporting those will generate store sales since it is the easybutton place to get craftable trinkets

[slarden]

Well, in general, we don't know what enchantments specifically that we'll be able to craft into what slots in the revamped system. We haven't gotten there yet. Why assume that there's going to be a (very, very unlikely) senseless omission? It's *possible* that they could remove all kobolds from DDO in the next update, but is it likely enough to actually worry about? No. The upcoming update isn't slated to come out until sometime next month (according to DDOwiki). I'm sure we'll be seeing more aspects of the system presented over time, including what enchantments can be crafted into what slots (and I'd say it's very safe to assume that will include trinkets).

We know that enchantments can only go to the same place they go to on random loot. That part is already known. This a thread for people to discuss the new system and questions.

That is what is being done. I never thought of trinkets myself but it's a really great point and I am glad we can discuss it with devs before it goes live. I would also like to know if we can craft onto trinkets.

[Zeleron]

Any word on trinkets? Since there are no rand gen ones, can we still craft on trinkets?

IIRC there is too random gen trinkets, I think they are in the chain reward list for wheloon but they are BtC on equip.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

IIRC there is too random gen trinkets, I think they are in the chain reward list for wheloon but they are BtC on equip.

Interesting. From the wiki:

"Upon completing all the above quests, the original chain giver NPC offers you a list of named items that are chest drops within the arc. Plus, the list seems to always include a random item with the Wondrous Craftsmanship property on it. This can be a new kind of item, a "Compass" which equips to the Trinket slot. The item is typically, but not always, for a jewelry or clothing slot. "

Not sure that I've ever seen one. Can't really find any other info on it. The wording confuses the heck out of me lol. Equips to a trinket slot.....the item is typically for a jewelry or clothing slot.
Just what the hell does that mean?

Anybody pulled one?

[Cantor]

I've seen compass drops, only as wondrous from end rewards and in quest. But as wondrous drops seem totally messed up by new rangen, I'd say concerns about what will be on them stands.

[LrdSlvrhnd]

Interesting. From the wiki:

"Upon completing all the above quests, the original chain giver NPC offers you a list of named items that are chest drops within the arc. Plus, the list seems to always include a random item with the Wondrous Craftsmanship property on it. This can be a new kind of item, a "Compass" which equips to the Trinket slot. The item is typically, but not always, for a jewelry or clothing slot. "

Not sure that I've ever seen one. Can't really find any other info on it. The wording confuses the heck out of me lol. Equips to a trinket slot.....the item is typically for a jewelry or clothing slot.
Just what the hell does that mean?

Anybody pulled one?

I've pulled several, and seen several more on the AH (you can probably check the ASAH for examples, there are usually a few on there). It equips to the trinket slot, and decons and can be crafted on as a trinket (like a Shard of Power or, I believe, Rune Arms). I think the second part is supposed to mean that the enchantments on it are typically taken from jewelry/clothing enchantment, but that wording confuses me. I guess there are a couple of potential enhancements that are usually found on weapons/shields/armor?

[Saekee]

a good reason to think about trinkets is also because supporting those will generate store sales since it is the easybutton place to get craftable trinkets

I've pulled several, and seen several more on the AH (you can probably check the ASAH for examples, there are usually a few on there). It equips to the trinket slot, and decons and can be crafted on as a trinket (like a Shard of Power or, I believe, Rune Arms). I think the second part is supposed to mean that the enchantments on it are typically taken from jewelry/clothing enchantment, but that wording confuses me. I guess there are a couple of potential enhancements that are usually found on weapons/shields/armor?

currently, it is a good point that crafting on rune arms counts as 'trinket' in terms of what prefixes & suffixes can go there. My challenge farmer has ranged alacrity, for example, on her rune arm (dropped it when I got a speed item).

[LightBear]

Those are lists of exclusive effects. Since the effects will be in both Random Loot and Cannith, they do not belong on either list. The lists are accurate at this time.

Then do UW and FF belong to group 1, 2 or 3?
And what skills can we craft? Is it all skills including Spellcraft? Did you put limitations on UMD?
Spell Penetration isn't on the lists or groups, is it removed or not?

And what are the numbers per level of everything?


Questions, questions.... and more questions... I guess we'll see once it hits preview server.

[Nuclear_Elvis]

Until the new Random Loot System is updated and improved, the entire Cannith Crafting update is Dead On Arrival (DOA).

If this point isn't known/understood at the Dev level, then you may as well release new CC now without any new improvements because it's DOA with or without additional manhours applied.

[Livmo]

That is actually another very nice change, if that is how things fall out.

Had occasion of wanting to craft double suffix or double prefix items.



Excellent tip, they also drop in parts of ToD flagging, as well as the Heroic Shroud - commonly given away if you only ask before hand.
{The Great and Supreme Shards cannot be deconstructed.}

The DDO store (and possibly Sharn Syndicate?) has the advantage of being BtA instead of BtC.

The BtAs look like this when crafted upon:

[Livmo]

currently, it is a good point that crafting on rune arms counts as 'trinket' in terms of what prefixes & suffixes can go there. My challenge farmer has ranged alacrity, for example, on her rune arm (dropped it when I got a speed item).

[Livmo]

But still enjoy crafting crafting with augments. I'm hoping for good augment synergy in the new system. I would really dig a craftable quiver with these slots or just a single:

[JenoanDK]

I like the new Crafting System:

I like what I see.

But There is a lot of stuff, that is currently in the Crafting system...
What will happen to the unique crafting buffs? Examples;

Stability?
Nimbleness?
Feat: (something)?

etc...

Are they gone for good?
What are the plans for them?

And before anyone else is gonna state these pointless and useless?
Less, in case of crafting, is not a good thing. If it is waste of time to use these, well...

Let us waste our time with them. find it out. Personally, I rather have both useless and useful, than be limited and have options narrowed...
Am I the only to think this?