Cannith Crafting Discussion - Part 2

[bls904c2]

If I have some old ML20 cannith crafted loot that "should" have been more than ML 20 (+5 Holy Burst [weapon type] of Greater Evil Outsider Bane), will the ML on that weapon change after the crafting pass? Or will my existing cannith crafted items remain as they are now?

All items created with old Cannith Crafting will remain as is when the new system goes in. However, all of the old recipes will be gone at that time.

so yes

[ValariusK]

Can you please confirm or deny this statement:

There are no prefix or suffix types anymore. An enchantment either can go or can't go into the 2 or 3 (MC) slots on an item according to the item type and enchantment type.
So for instance, an item that can hold any attribute, like a ring, could be dexterity, constitution, charisma, if it were MC'd.

[erdson]

All of the different crafting bonuses (potions, artificer, Mark of Making) are planned to work the same after the change over.

I'm glad all the bonuses will work, but the effect of the bonuses will be halved(or more). With 400 levels of crafting, getting +10 levels from Greater Mark of Making will make much less of a difference than it did when there were only 150. Any chance the effects could be doubled (or tripled)?

... and yes I have an Artificer with Greater Mark of Making as my main crafter.

[mikarddo]

I'm glad all the bonuses will work, but the effect of the bonuses will be halved(or more). With 400 levels of crafting, getting +10 levels from Greater Mark of Making will make much less of a difference than it did when there were only 150. Any chance the effects could be doubled (or tripled)?

... and yes I have an Artificer with Greater Mark of Making as my main crafter.

Try looking at the xp value. 10 levels in each of 3 schools now is worth just about the same xp as 10 levels in the new system when both are nearly maxed. Trippling would be alot more xp than we get now.

[changelingamuck]

I am talking about going from having c crafting maxed out to barely past halfway. It's a slap in the face really just to spite dupers.

Not to wonder why there's layoffs and an attempt to make it in mobile gaming.....

Expressing a self-satisfied "that's what you get!" about layoffs on the basis of a 'problem' that you've imagined up out of nowhere.

Real nice.

And dupers are going to have massive stacks of crafting essences still around that they'll convert into the new type of essences and max out their crafting asap using those. Exactly how is this update spiting them?!? You're searching for reasons to indulge your hatred for Turbine anywhere you can find them--even in the land of imagination.

[NoWorries]

Can you please confirm or deny this statement:

There are no prefix or suffix types anymore. An enchantment either can go or can't go into the 2 or 3 (MC) slots on an item according to the item type and enchantment type.
So for instance, an item that can hold any attribute, like a ring, could be dexterity, constitution, charisma, if it were MC'd.

There are not prefix or suffix shards. However, an effect can still only go in a particular prefix, suffix, or extra slot given the item type.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

There are not prefix or suffix shards. However, an effect can still only go in a particular prefix, suffix, or extra slot given the item type.

And for anybody wondering, I'm not sure if this is still up to date but the wiki has a list:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Update_29_ra...generated_loot

[Dewboy691]

There are no "+1" or "+2" in the new system. You make a generic "+str shard" and a "ML shard" and when you add both to the item the value of the str scales to the ML .

So, with this thought I won't be able to make a +6 Strength item at ML 9 like I can now?

I know this is all speculative but these are the reasons I'm having dreams of man-eating, ravenous bears chasing me all night. Wait, what forum is this?

[Greantun]

So, with this thought I won't be able to make a +6 Strength item at ML 9 like I can now?

I know this is all speculative but these are the reasons I'm having dreams of man-eating, ravenous bears chasing me all night. Wait, what forum is this?

No, but most likely ML 9 Strength is more than +6. Or the item is STR +5, CON+5, with some False life. What is the best ML9 strength item anyone has seen in the new loot, that is what you will get with an ML9 item.

[Dandonk]

No, but most likely ML 9 Strength is more than +6. Or the item is STR +5, CON+5, with some False life. What is the best ML9 strength item anyone has seen in the new loot, that is what you will get with an ML9 item.

My bet is on +4 STR, but I can't say for sure, since I haven't seen anything definitive on it yet.

Also, GFL and hv fort will be hit hard, if randgen loot is anything to go by. And skill items.

While it's nice to get to craft new higher level items, it's not all for the better. Well, as far as I can tell, anyway. Since we're lacking details.

[niknight]

So, with this thought I won't be able to make a +6 Strength item at ML 9 like I can now?

I know this is all speculative but these are the reasons I'm having dreams of man-eating, ravenous bears chasing me all night. Wait, what forum is this?

If we use random loot as a guideline (this is some back of the napkin math looking at the items in the Cannith AH):

+2 = ML 5
+3 = ML 6
+4 = ML 11 (only 3 items available, so probably closer to ML 9)
+5 = ML 12
+6 = ML 14
+7 = ML 16
+8 = ML 19
+9 = ML 22
+10 = ML 24/25
+11 = ML 27/28
+12 and above = ML 30+

[slarden]

There are not prefix or suffix shards. However, an effect can still only go in a particular prefix, suffix, or extra slot given the item type.

On random loot you might see intelligence on goggles or a helm but never a belt for example. With cannith crafting will the same restrictions apply (intelligence can't be on a belt)?

The old cannith crafting system had restrictions but you could bypass those by crafting flexible shards that removed some restrictions.

[Cantor]

My guess at ml9 is 4 or 5 enh with 2 insight leaving you ahead since you can put a 3rd effect and augment on it which currently an aug or other effect would hurt the ml. Could you use and old 6 and a new insight if you have room sure. But a straight up comparison new is better.

edit: wanted to bring this up again, someone else did before. It would be awesome if we could overwrite the ML shard, making one item we can keep using through all levels just upgrading it as we go with a single craft, not a craft from scratch.

[Greantun]

On random loot you might see intelligence on goggles or a helm but never a belt for example. With cannith crafting will the same restrictions apply (intelligence can't be on a belt)?

The old cannith crafting system had restrictions but you could bypass those by crafting flexible shards that removed some restrictions.

There will not be flexible shards (as least as of now), and the restriction applies to crafted items as well. From the original crafting post:

Although Cannith will follow the slot restrictions of effects that Random Loot has, a player does get to choose which effects go on the slots of the item.

[slarden]

There will not be flexible shards (as least as of now), and the restriction applies to crafted items as well. From the original crafting post:

Although Cannith will follow the slot restrictions of effects that Random Loot has, a player does get to choose which effects go on the slots of the item.

Reading fail on my part, thank you for quoting that.

[Free2Pay]

I'll just say this one final time.

EVERY properties that can ever exist on random loot, Cannith Challenge, Eveningstar Challenge, Named Item, HAVE to be craftable via Cannith Crafting or you'll end up revisiting Cannith Crafting again which is just wasting your own development time.

Going forward, you should be able to craft Raid Gears on Cannith Crafting table. I'm not saying they are going to use normal crafting ingredients. You are still required to run the raids to get the ingredients. The same goes for Festival Crafting. You do the festival event for the ingredients BUT you can craft it through Cannith Crafting.

Cannith Crafting will NOT make random loot obsolete. If I can find the ideal gear via random loot I'd rather buy it through auction house since that's way faster. The fact that there's less items on the Auction House cannot be attributed as Cannith Crafting's fault. Those are your RNG rate, Astral Shard AH, population issues.

Vorpal, Paralyzing, Banishing have such a small window of usefulness (only mid levels) that it absolutely makes no sense you cannot craft them.

[Gremmlynn]

That would be a strange POV in a game of character progression. Just as the character level cap has been increased several times but "max level" characters didn't jump to the new max level, the same will be true for this system. Doesn't make sense that it would be any other way.

I agree, but have seen that complaint as well in games I've played. I think it comes from the "leveling is work, end game is fun" mindset that some games seem to engender. With "Shadowbane", for instance, it seemed even the devs had this perspective to a degree.

[Gremmlynn]

My bet is on +4 STR, but I can't say for sure, since I haven't seen anything definitive on it yet.

Also, GFL and hv fort will be hit hard, if randgen loot is anything to go by. And skill items.

While it's nice to get to craft new higher level items, it's not all for the better. Well, as far as I can tell, anyway. Since we're lacking details.

Named items and augments will cover the gap between what we have now and a false life/fort effect/(bonus)insightful effect item. Frankly, at level 9 every character I have gets it's heavy fort from it's neclace simply because there is no ML9 item in the game that even comes close to what heavy fort gives and that's from a F2P quest one need not even run all of at any difficulty they choose. As for false life, with the hps we have today, those items were lagging behind anyway.

[Gremmlynn]

If we use random loot as a guideline (this is some back of the napkin math looking at the items in the Cannith AH):

+2 = ML 5
+3 = ML 6
+4 = ML 11 (only 3 items available, so probably closer to ML 9)
+5 = ML 12
+6 = ML 14
+7 = ML 16
+8 = ML 19
+9 = ML 22
+10 = ML 24/25
+11 = ML 27/28
+12 and above = ML 30+

Random loot uses a range, crafting will be set at the top of the range from the way I read it. A good linguine would be ML/2 (round up) from what I've seen. Basically what it was in the ols system, sans masterful, through +6 items. It may be a bit lower at the top end, or maybe not due to what random stuff we've seen having a wider possible range.

[Dandonk]

Named items and augments will cover the gap between what we have now and a false life/fort effect/(bonus)insightful effect item. Frankly, at level 9 every character I have gets it's heavy fort from it's neclace simply because there is no ML9 item in the game that even comes close to what heavy fort gives and that's from a F2P quest one need not even run all of at any difficulty they choose. As for false life, with the hps we have today, those items were lagging behind anyway.

I have never used that necklace, but you're right, augments will have to cover the deficiency.

So... because GFL is not as useful as it was, it deserves to be nerfed? I'm not sure I understand that logic.

DCs will suffer at low levels, skills will suffer, HPs will suffer.

This is not the end of the world. By no means. What I'm trying to do is counter the image that the revamp will be better for everyone, in every case. It won't. It will offer some new shinies, and take away others.

And since it will not offer flexibility like before, nor top end range gear, and will remove some low end goodies, and will require lots of new grind (both xp and the new collectables), I do not see CC after the revamp as on par with randgen and named gear (which was the point, that each should be powerful, but different). I see CC after the revamp as decidedly less powerful than both named and randgen.

Will it be better for 20+ gear than it is now? Yes. But it will not be as good as randgen, nor named gear. So I'm not sure I see the point of the exercise.