Cannith Crafting Discussion - Part 2

[Arkantios]

Is there any way to NOT ADD MORE INGREDIENTS?

We have got so many crafting systems, with so many ingredients, we could make all of those unbound and USE THEM for cannith crafting. heck it might even revitalize some of the content.

We've got:

Greensteel.
Thunderforged.
Alchemical and nearly finished stuff.
Cannith Challenge
Eveningstar Challenge
Commendations of several sorts.
Dragon scales.
Ancient relics.
Altar of Insanity
Unraveling Enchantments
Taps, fountain of necrotic might.
Dampened
Sora Katra
Dreamforge
Dragontouched
Incredible Potential
Epic s/s/s and tokens.
All the collecibles that already exist
TOEE
Planar Shards
Outsider Tokens
Adamanatine ore

And god knows how many more.

WE'VE GOT ENOUGH INGREDIENTS!!!

How about for high level recipes, we use some of those? People would actually have to run some content and stuff to get rare ingredients. Plus, Thudnerforged, Epic s//s/s, epic TOEE, leg GS, ......are already high level ingredients?

How about it? JUST SAY NO TO NEW INGREDIENTS!! Give us a reason to dust off Reavers Refuge to get some freaking draconic runes to make my shard or awesomeness! Hey, look, I finally want to go get some magefire cannon parts so I can make my contruct bane shard! Get creative with it.


PRETTY PLEASE?

Thoughts? Agree? Disagree? I know I can't be the only one with severe ingredient burnout.

I actually think this idea is fantastic. Tie specific effects to different content. That way, people will have to possess that content and run it enough times to get the items in question. Yes do this. It works for money on turbine's part to get people to buy more packs, and for us people that have these things that havent been used for ages to have some use again.

[Astoroth]

Collectables will be used in all the crafting recipes. To help fill out the range of collectables, new ones will be created that drop in the higher levels and drop in both FR and Eberron. Exactly which collectables and how many per recipe is still being designed.

Notice the ALL recipes.

If we need to collect new stuff then the system will be a failure, as it will be a limiting factor on any newer higher level stuff we want to create. Its not like adding the old cannith crafting, where it was just designed to use up mostly existing collectibles that served almost no purpose beforehand, and players already had in abundance. It will be exceptionally tiresome if there's no way to collect specific collectibles you need, or if they are made too rare.

It also depends on how many recipes if any use store bought components, it will be a slap in the face to people that play lots of alts. If stuff is expensive to make and uses store bought components.

The change to masterful craftsmanship will make it all too high level and rubbish, is what concerns me. Guess we'll see when it shows up on lamania.

Unfortunately, by the time anything shows up on lamania its already been programmed. And turbine is only rarely willing to make material changes at that point. So if you want to complain about pay to win, or them needing to put masterful craftsmanship back in. We all need to complain now, not tell these slackers how great this sounds.

It's been what 8 months and only now hes getting ready to put the missing effects back into new random loot. How long will it take him to fix new cannith crafting, if its a useless mess?

[duntduntduuun]

The only way they can "convert fairly" is straight 1 for 1, anything else is the definition of invalidated. Pure and simple.

Take heed, you boys had better fix this before going live or the civil unrest will be epic.

you want to turn your 20,000 lessers into 20,000 new ingredients? greaters are 1 to 1 but you want your lessers to also be 1 to 1? do tell me when you go to the bank do you insist on them giving you a dollar for every penny because you've had them in a fake champaign magnum since 1979? I have left greater essences in chests unlooted for 2 years I'm laughing at this unrest you think is going to happen over lessers.

[duntduntduuun]

If we need to collect new stuff then the system will be a failure,

this is suppozsxed to be a game we're playing, without stuff to do there's no reason to log in, why are you agry about maybe having something to log in for? i don't even prtend to understand why you want nothing new to seek out.

[mudfud]

Cannith will be down to a single school - currently know as... Cannith!
The school with have a level cap of 400, and all XP will carry over from the original 3 schools.
The lower levels of the school have had their xp curve adjusted. Here are some XP values for getting to different levels in the new school (could change before launch)


Level 50: 1,256
Level 100: 7,313
Level 150: 30,151
Level 260: 245,580
Level 340: 472,752
Level 400: 650,040

Is the XP going to be like guild xp was before cap was increased? Meaning we were still getting crafting XP after the cap it just never showed? And if so will that XP be added on top of whatever XP we have if capped already?

[thomascoolone64]

I know players have been awaiting more information on the Cannith Crafting Revamp, so without further ado let's jump right in.

Part I of the discussion, with additional information not repeated in this post, can be found here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ing-Discussion


All items created with old Cannith Crafting will remain as is when the new system goes in. However, all of the old recipes will be gone at that time.



Single School

Cannith will be down to a single school - currently know as... Cannith!
The school with have a level cap of 400, and all XP will carry over from the original 3 schools.
The lower levels of the school have had their xp curve adjusted. Here are some XP values for getting to different levels in the new school (could change before launch)


Level 50: 1,256
Level 100: 7,313
Level 150: 30,151
Level 260: 245,580
Level 340: 472,752
Level 400: 650,040


The Treasure Level of Cannith will likely end up capping at what would be ML 34, instead of ML 33 as previously mentioned.



Crafting Difficulty

Minimum Level shards will be their level x 10 for their crafting difficulty (which the exception of ML 1 which will be difficulty 1). Unbound versions will be their level x 10 + 50.


Example:
ML 20 shard would be a recipe of 200 difficulty
Unbound ML 20 shard would be a recipe of 250 difficulty


The plan is to divide the scaling effects from random loot into 3 crafting groups.


The lowest group would be difficulty 1, the second group would be difficulty 50, and the final group would be difficulty 100.
Unbound would be +150 so 150, 200, 250
Insightful would be +175 so 175, 225, 275
which means unbound insightful would be 325, 375, 425


Since non scaling effects also don't have insightful versions, they will fall in different places along the crafting curve. The above is for the normal scaling effects only.


Crafting Groups:

Group 1:
Guards
False Life
Wizardry
Enchantment Resist
Illusion Resist
Poison Ward
Disease Ward
Will Save
Reflex Save
Fortitude Save
Damage Resistances (fire, acid, cold, etc.)
Skills
Fortification
Incite
Diversion


Group 2 (50):
Negative/Repair/Healing Amp
Absorptions
Parrying
Dodge Bonus
Accuracy
Deadly
Seeker
Shield Bashing
Armor-Piercing
Spell Focuses
Tendon Slice
Vertigo
Stunning
Shatter
Stat Poisons
Spell Pen
Spell Powers
Weapon Damages
Creature Banes


Group 3(100):
Attributes
Spell Saves
Resistance
Riposte
Sheltering
Doublestrike
Doubleshot
Assassinate
Combat Mastery
Melee/Ranged Alacrity
Potency
Weapon Crit Damages
Weapon DRs (good, evil etc)
Spell Lores
Vampirism


Natural Armor is considered insightful so it would show up in the first insightful tier.


Exclusive Effects:

Below is a list of effects exclusive to both Random loot and Cannith crafting. Note: This does not include clickies.

Random:
Vorpal
Speed
Paralyzing
UMD boost
Banishing
Disruption
Smiting
Destruction
Ghostbane (being readded into the random loot system)


Cannith:
Metalline
Alligned
Everbright
Blueshine
Ghost Touch
Invulnerability
Vengeful
Unbalancing
Twilight
Lesser Arcane Spell Dexterity
Songblade
Slowburst/Improved Slowburst
Regeneration
Persuasion
Fearsome
Silver Flame/Sacred/Eternal Faith
Efficient Metamagic
Blindness Immunity
True Seeing


Consideration is being made of adding Good Luck into random loot and having it be craftable. Same goes with Shattermantle. UWA will likely be added to random loot.


Single Essence

There will be a single essence going forward, no lesser or greater, just a single essence. The exchange rate will be 1 greater to 1 of the new essence.

The new essence will stack to at least 10,000.


Removers

There will be a singular remover which will award a range of essences based on the ML of the item being deconstructed. We are also looking into Mass Deconstruction, so there is a possibility of an even better system such as a deconstruct all. We are not at the point to say how possible this will be yet.


Disjunction will still exist and will prep the item for new Cannith crafting (items previously disjuncted with the old system would need to have disjunction applied again to set them up to be used with the new system).


Collectables

Collectables will be used in all the crafting recipes. To help fill out the range of collectables, new ones will be created that drop in the higher levels and drop in both FR and Eberron. Exactly which collectables and how many per recipe is still being designed.

Purified Dragon Shards will still be used as well.

We are creating a scaling treasure system for collectables. The tiers will be broken down into 5 level ranges and the collectable device in a dungeon will automatically check the level of the dungeon and pull from the correct tier. So if you were to run a level 5 quest on normal, you'd get the level 1-5 tier collectables, if you ran it on hard, you'd get the 6-10 tier collectables. And if you were to run those on epic difficulty, you'd get the higher tiers as well. We will be adding collectables to FR as well, with the Eberron related lore ones removed (so no Soarwood for example).


As always, everything above is subject to change for any number of reasons.

'Single School:.... Cannith will be down to a single school - currently know as... Cannith!
The school with have a level cap of 400,....

"With have" ??

[PaulKorin1967]

Regarding this
Collectables

Collectables will be used in all the crafting recipes. To help fill out the range of collectables, new ones will be created that drop in the higher levels and drop in both FR and Eberron. Exactly which collectables and how many per recipe is still being designed.

Purified Dragon Shards will still be used as well.

We are creating a scaling treasure system for collectables. The tiers will be broken down into 5 level ranges and the collectable device in a dungeon will automatically check the level of the dungeon and pull from the correct tier. So if you were to run a level 5 quest on normal, you'd get the level 1-5 tier collectables, if you ran it on hard, you'd get the 6-10 tier collectables. And if you were to run those on epic difficulty, you'd get the higher tiers as well. We will be adding collectables to FR as well, with the Eberron related lore ones removed (so no Soarwood for example).


As always, everything above is subject to change for any number of reasons.


My question is this - What will happen to Eberron shards (s/m/l), Lightning split soarwood, Fragrant drowshood, of which I have hoarded them for quite some time as they sell very well in AH for exuberant amounts of PP. Will they still be available as they are; randomly from any level quests (by the way Tangleroot is the best area to get these, Ive gotten 7 lightning-split soarwood from there in the past month alone.) I really hope you keep these as-is.

But with the new cannith crafting system your working on Kudos!!! Love it.

[arkonas]

We are also considering what to do about the already-crafted shards, but don't have something more specific to announce at this time.

as a crafter i do enjoy what i read, but i think the shards already made just be deconstructed. i would tell people ahead of time the shards would not work and if they want just recraft them. hell we all know we will be crafting anyways to raise our levels. also if anyone thinks they should be maxed for free NO. earn it. not one time in a lot of mmos i know did they boost your crafting for you. it should not start here either. just like you never get a free boost on xp when a new cap is made.

[arkonas]

Regarding this
Collectables

Collectables will be used in all the crafting recipes. To help fill out the range of collectables, new ones will be created that drop in the higher levels and drop in both FR and Eberron. Exactly which collectables and how many per recipe is still being designed.

Purified Dragon Shards will still be used as well.

We are creating a scaling treasure system for collectables. The tiers will be broken down into 5 level ranges and the collectable device in a dungeon will automatically check the level of the dungeon and pull from the correct tier. So if you were to run a level 5 quest on normal, you'd get the level 1-5 tier collectables, if you ran it on hard, you'd get the 6-10 tier collectables. And if you were to run those on epic difficulty, you'd get the higher tiers as well. We will be adding collectables to FR as well, with the Eberron related lore ones removed (so no Soarwood for example).


As always, everything above is subject to change for any number of reasons.


My question is this - What will happen to Eberron shards (s/m/l), Lightning split soarwood, Fragrant drowshood, of which I have hoarded them for quite some time as they sell very well in AH for exuberant amounts of PP. Will they still be available as they are; randomly from any level quests (by the way Tangleroot is the best area to get these, Ive gotten 7 lightning-split soarwood from there in the past month alone.) I really hope you keep these as-is.

But with the new cannith crafting system your working on Kudos!!! Love it.

to answer your question Forgotten realms is having their own collectibles that is why it said removed. they were giving examples. so eberron collectibles will stay in eberron FR the same etc. to keep it i guess lore related hence reason no airships in forgotten realms if that makes sense.

[niknight]

One additional thing regarding essences/collectibles and the game economy:

Since I'm assuming the essences and collectibles will still be unbound, could you please have them purchasable from the crafting vendors for plat? It would provide a benchmark for the value of platinum (which is essentially worthless now because of the massive amounts most of us have), make the AH somewhat useful again (why list them on the shard exchange when you could pay plat from a vendor), and act as a massive plat sink for a game that desperately needs one. They don't need to be cheap, say 1,000 pp for an essence, and scaling cost for collectible by level.

[mrtreats]

Cam collectables be changed to auto collection like epic shards I hate trying to click them in the middle of the questions as everyone is running forward

[Dragavon]

This is unacceptable, I didn't grind out all those levels and hoard 7 years of essences to have them invalidated by you with a update that is transparently desinged to force me to spend money for Turbine's bottom line, and do nothing to improve player experience.

Go back to the drawing board or get ready for civil-unrest al'a bridge.

Invalidated? You will start at level 260 in this new system, and be able to craft much better gear than before the update, up to minimum level 26. How can that be invalidating your efforts?

Dont be ridiculous

[Wizza]

Level 50: 1,256
Level 100: 7,313
Level 150: 30,151
Level 260: 245,580
Level 340: 472,752
Level 400: 650,040

So whoever maxed all three schools in the current Cannith Crafting won't be even half-way through this (245.715 XP). And we have to level up the same way, sitting at the machine and just clicking a button.

Collectables

Collectables will be used in all the crafting recipes. To help fill out the range of collectables, new ones will be created that drop in the higher levels and drop in both FR and Eberron. Exactly which collectables and how many per recipe is still being designed.

Purified Dragon Shards will still be used as well.

We are creating a scaling treasure system for collectables. The tiers will be broken down into 5 level ranges and the collectable device in a dungeon will automatically check the level of the dungeon and pull from the correct tier. So if you were to run a level 5 quest on normal, you'd get the level 1-5 tier collectables, if you ran it on hard, you'd get the 6-10 tier collectables. And if you were to run those on epic difficulty, you'd get the higher tiers as well. We will be adding collectables to FR as well, with the Eberron related lore ones removed (so no Soarwood for example).

How many of the old Collectables will be used? And..why? Aren't the old ones enough?

And what's the binding status of the new essence and the new collectables?

[cdbd3rd]

Oh I'm way beyond the +10! lol

Heck I made a crapload of unbound +14 just for some xp and to get rid of lessers. That's almost 2800 lesser PER SHARD.

Just for ****s and giggles if I remember I'll look and see how many I have. I have no doubt I've burned over 100K lessers on shards of potential that I haven't used.....

I just logged in on my crafting main and did a quick count: 190 Shards of Potential, both bound & unbound.

Also have a bunch of enchantment shards. (The "+1", "+4", etc kind.) These are also not deconnable. Don't have as many of these so not that big of a deal if we just wind up eating those.

[Stoner81]

Unless I am blind then it seems that Speed is NOT craftable and on top of that Striding isn't even listed? Just do away with Striding and allow Speed to be craftable, you have already allowed Deadly and Seeker which are more powerful than Speed is by a long way! Add Ghostbane to craftable and lootgen and remove Ghost Touch.

Stoner81.

PS - I am going to really miss Masterful Craftsmanchip shards

[CeltEireson]

you want to turn your 20,000 lessers into 20,000 new ingredients? greaters are 1 to 1 but you want your lessers to also be 1 to 1? do tell me when you go to the bank do you insist on them giving you a dollar for every penny because you've had them in a fake champaign magnum since 1979? I have left greater essences in chests unlooted for 2 years I'm laughing at this unrest you think is going to happen over lessers.

To be fair whether the current exchange rate is reasonable depends on how many essences you need under the new system. If its similar to the number of greaters used now then the exchange rate is fine, if its similar to the number of lesser essences required for current high level recipes then it might need adjusted, until we see the requirements for the new recipes its hard to say.

But yes demanding a 1:1 on the lessers is probably a bit unreasonable

[GeoffWatson]

All recipes will require new collectables?

That sounds pretty bad. I hope they aren't too rare.

[Tom.JonesJr]

I agree that demanding a 1:1 exchange rate for lesser is crazy. Current exchange rate is 1:5 Greater to Lesser. This should be the same rate applied to go to the new essence. You are not losing anything just smashing your lessers into a greater then exchanging it for a new essence. Lets not over think this. The current game already has an exchange rate that no-one has complained about in years.

[LiquidZombie]

To be fair whether the current exchange rate is reasonable depends on how many essences you need under the new system.

Exactly. To determine whether an exchange rate is fair requires an analysis of the value of the result (i.e. what you can purchase with it), not a simple numeric comparison.

HAY GUYZ I JUST SPEND 100 DOLLARS ON A GOLD-PLATED FABERGE EGG THIS TOTALLY INVALIDATES MY CURRENCY THEY SHOULD HAVE GIVEN ME 100 FABERGE EGGS!!!!!

[Holleyz]

Is there any way to NOT ADD MORE INGREDIENTS?

We have got so many crafting systems, with so many ingredients, we could make all of those unbound and USE THEM for cannith crafting. heck it might even revitalize some of the content.

We've got:

Greensteel.
Thunderforged.
Alchemical and nearly finished stuff.
Cannith Challenge
Eveningstar Challenge
Commendations of several sorts.
Dragon scales.
Ancient relics.
Altar of Insanity
Unraveling Enchantments
Taps, fountain of necrotic might.
Dampened
Sora Katra
Dreamforge
Dragontouched
Incredible Potential
Epic s/s/s and tokens.
All the collecibles that already exist
TOEE
Planar Shards
Outsider Tokens
Adamanatine ore

And god knows how many more.

WE'VE GOT ENOUGH INGREDIENTS!!!

How about for high level recipes, we use some of those? People would actually have to run some content and stuff to get rare ingredients. Plus, Thudnerforged, Epic s//s/s, epic TOEE, leg GS, ......are already high level ingredients?

How about it? JUST SAY NO TO NEW INGREDIENTS!! Give us a reason to dust off Reavers Refuge to get some freaking draconic runes to make my shard or awesomeness! Hey, look, I finally want to go get some magefire cannon parts so I can make my contruct bane shard! Get creative with it.


PRETTY PLEASE?

Thoughts? Agree? Disagree? I know I can't be the only one with severe ingredient burnout.

Totally agree. I don't understand why they just cant erase every sort of crafting system and OR convert all them into 1 system. gonna go out on a limb here and make a prediction. New CC is going to push even more people into leaving the game. Just the lag alone has taken our guild from 36 active daily players down to 2.