Cannith Crafting Discussion - Part 2

[Heynone]

How about addressing the fact that your current plan will invalidate and devalue my levels and collected essences Cordovan? Ignoring the issue this way is insulting to us long time players.

What is this guy mad about?

A fully capped crafter on the live server would be a minuscule amount away from lvl 260 of the purposed system. That seems pretty fair to me. Since this is a fairly large power spike in crafting's favor I don't think anyone expected not to have some additional grind to the new top tier.

Also the xp numbers aren't set in stone so explain calmly what you think a more fair curve might be and the devs might take that into account.

[changelingamuck]

Nope, with what they laid out I'll be able to try and craft ML15. But more importantly all my saved essences and collectibles.... allow me to repeat that ALL MY EARNED LEVELS, ESSENCES, COLLECTIBLES AND ESPECIALLY SHARDS WILL BE DEVALUED AND MADE USELESS WITH THEIR CURRENT PLAN. And unlike stuff that was found, looted my levels, my materials, my collectibles were ground out.

You're misunderstanding aspects of the proposed system. I'd recommend asking for clarification rather than jumping immediately to ACCUSATORY ANGER.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

Nope, with what they laid out I'll be able to try and craft ML15. But more importantly all my saved essences and collectibles.... allow me to repeat that ALL MY EARNED LEVELS, ESSENCES, COLLECTIBLES AND ESPECIALLY SHARDS WILL BE DEVALUED AND MADE USELESS WITH THEIR CURRENT PLAN. And unlike stuff that was found, looted my levels, my materials, my collectibles were ground out.

While I appreciate your sky is falling mentality......

Yes you will need to decon your existing shards or use them. Not a huge deal. Kind of a PITA sure, but not ANYTHING SO BAD YOU NEED SO MANY CAPS.

Your essences are tradeable for the new ones.

Your collectibles are going ot be used in the new recipes. If anything some of the useless ones now might become valuable. (I'm talking to you stack of 10,000 blades of hte dark six!)

Your levels aren't devalued. They just aren't the cap anymore. You should be around level 260ish I think right?

[ice584]

It'll probably be along the lines of the current ratio; just don't want to commit at this point.

IMO anything other than matching the greater essence-to-cannith essence ratio seems weird. Whatever you can exchange the greaters for, keep the lesser exchange at the same rate.

Cause if it's a better ratio, everyone's just going to sunder their essences before trading them in anyway. And if you make it significant, then you're basically forcing us to sunder them all which is kind of a jerk move cause it's a tedious and time-consuming process.

And if it's worse, that's just lessening the worth of all our lesser essences. If people have sundered batches of their greaters in preparations for when they would have needed them in the future, you've now reduced the worth of their inventory just because they were trying to be proactive and preparing for the future. Which sucks.

If your goal by making them different exchange rates is to reduce the amount of total essences we get on trade-in (to make things balanced with the new system), I would suggest instead to come up with a better exchange ratio overall. Then make trade-ups for both greaters and lessers at that same ratio. Like 3:2, or 5:3 or something. If that's technically difficult for some reason, maybe you could allow for trading lessers in for greaters. Then people could switch over to greaters and then trade in for cannith at your new rate.

TLDR: Keep the lesser and greater trade-up ratios the same.

[alancarp]

I really think these issues are probably a 'just you and a few other people' concern. There's hasn't been a practical reason to hoard Shards of Potential or other Craftable Shards. They can be made at any time so there's been no reason to hoard them and have them take up bag/bank/inventory space.

FWIW, I made up a bunch of them - partly to get below 10,000 lesser essence counts, partly for the crafting XP, partly for convenience. So I have hoarded close to 150 of them.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

FWIW, I made up a bunch of them - partly to get below 10,000 lesser essence counts, partly for the crafting XP, partly for convenience. So I have hoarded close to 150 of them.

Yeah I've got quite a few myself to get rid of lessers. I've basically deconned my way (for all my materials) to around 135ish in each school and literally have 10,000 extra lessers for each type even after making tons of potential shards. I've even recently sold 20K or so of various types and still have overflow for lessers.

Would be nice if there was something/anything to do with them since they are basically junk after the new system comes out. Can't even recover any essence like you can with other shards.

[lostgunman]

This question has been asked a bunch, if I have all three schools maxed at level 150, where will that put me in the new crafting system? And did I read correctly that there will be "new" collectible stuff for the upper crafting levels? (aka: Epic?)

And what about our current crafted surplus shards? What do we do with them?

[Cordovan]

How about addressing the fact that your current plan will invalidate and devalue my levels and collected essences Cordovan? Ignoring the issue this way is insulting to us long time players.

We have been designing the system in mind with the goal of not invalidating or devaluing current crafters nor their collected essences. For example, your old levels will be converted to provide you the same basic level of benefit in the new system (although there will now be further goals to reach.) We are also making sure that essences convert fairly to our newer, simplified system. In what way do you feel that your levels and essences are being invalidated?

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

This question has been asked a bunch, if I have all three schools maxed at level 150, where will that put me in the new crafting system? And did I read correctly that there will be "new" collectible stuff for the upper crafting levels? (aka: Epic?)

And what about our current crafted surplus shards? What do we do with them?

Decon your shards.

You should be around level 260ish i think.

[mikarddo]

This question has been asked a bunch, if I have all three schools maxed at level 150, where will that put me in the new crafting system?

260. Thats why the xp for that level is listed specifically.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

Is the UI to convert essence going to be an instantaneous conversion?

Some of the other UI, you know, you put in a number how many you want and it slowly does the conversion one at a time. (I'm thinking like the cove gem to dubloon exchange, something like that)

If I've got Almost 100K lessers to convert, 20,0000 little tics of time is a LONG TIME to wait to convert all these. And I'm sure a LOT of people have thousands of essence to convert.

[Grailhawk]

260. Thats why the xp for that level is listed specifically.

I'm not saying your wrong, and actually think that's right, but where's the dev confirmation?

They can easily pick one of the many times its been asked quote it and just type "yes" as a reply, not to hard to do.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

I'm not saying your wrong, and actually think that's right, but where's the dev confirmation?

They can easily pick one of the many times its been asked quote it and just type "yes" as a reply, not to hard to do.

Cannith will be down to a single school - currently know as... Cannith!
The school with have a level cap of 400, and all XP will carry over from the original 3 schools.
The lower levels of the school have had their xp curve adjusted. Here are some XP values for getting to different levels in the new school (could change before launch)
Level 50: 1,256
Level 100: 7,313
Level 150: 30,151
Level 260: 245,580
Level 340: 472,752
Level 400: 650,040


You just need them to repeat that in a different way?

Multiplying 80K by 3 isn't that hard either. Are we at a point where we need to have them confirm something they've already explicitly stated?

[alancarp]

Yeah I've got quite a few myself to get rid of lessers. I've basically deconned my way (for all my materials) to around 135ish in each school and literally have 10,000 extra lessers for each type even after making tons of potential shards. I've even recently sold 20K or so of various types and still have overflow for lessers.

Would be nice if there was something/anything to do with them since they are basically junk after the new system comes out. Can't even recover any essence like you can with other shards.

Let's do some math. Your basic unbound +10 shard of potential requires 275x3->825 lesser essences.
If those were available and tradable at a 5:1 ratio, that's 165 new Cannith essences... probably not insignificant.

So would it be that difficult to add another entry or two (bound/unbound) in a conversion script to allow deconning of these shards? Please?

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

Let's do some math. Your basic unbound +10 shard of potential requires 275x3->825 lesser essences.
If those were available and tradable at a 5:1 ratio, that's 165 new Cannith essences... probably not insignificant.

So would it be that difficult to add another entry or two (bound/unbound) in a conversion script to allow deconning of these shards? Please?

Oh I'm way beyond the +10! lol

Heck I made a crapload of unbound +14 just for some xp and to get rid of lessers. That's almost 2800 lesser PER SHARD.

Just for ****s and giggles if I remember I'll look and see how many I have. I have no doubt I've burned over 100K lessers on shards of potential that I haven't used.

When you decon most of your loot for crafting mats, you have a LOT of extra lesser!

I think I'm starting to realize just how many stacks of 10,000 new essence I am going to have.

[Ebondevil]

I'm not saying your wrong, and actually think that's right, but where's the dev confirmation?

They can easily pick one of the many times its been asked quote it and just type "yes" as a reply, not to hard to do.

The school with have a level cap of 400, and all XP will carry over from the original 3 schools.

Level 260: 245,580

http://ddowiki.com/page/Cannith_Craf...el_Progression

Level 150 = 81,905 xp
81,905 x 3 = 245,715

[Zebedar]

We have been designing the system in mind with the goal of not invalidating or devaluing current crafters nor their collected essences. For example, your old levels will be converted to provide you the same basic level of benefit in the new system (although there will now be further goals to reach.) We are also making sure that essences convert fairly to our newer, simplified system. In what way do you feel that your levels and essences are being invalidated?

The only way they can "convert fairly" is straight 1 for 1, anything else is the definition of invalidated. Pure and simple.


Also with the numbers posted concerning levels those will undercut my crafting levels by 25% following the new tables. Additionally if any of the 'new' collectibles are made to be required for making any items we can now currently make without them that will be a classic example of invalidating current collectibles to drive revenue.

And lets not overlook shards, my entire inventory of shards that I made while grinding out levels and stockpiling for new toons is gutted and made useless by your current plans.

Take heed, you boys had better fix this before going live or the civil unrest will be epic.

[Neo-Masamune]

OK! Great! but what about breaking the DR of monsters such as Abishai? The new gen loot Good type weapons are not breaking the DR! You guys need to adjust that! please! the rest is fine! But dont ignore that fact!


p.s.

I wish everbright was on random loot but i can live with that!

[Livmo]

Heads up and just a reminder that we are all on the same team here. Any outcomes will have an impact on all of us. I know there is allot of emotion around this topic. However, as a group it's OK to disagree. What we need to do is articulate our concerns in a manner that is received by DDO. If possible, try and take out the emotion before posting and stick to the points. We are all in the same boat.

[Grailhawk]

You just need them to repeat that in a different way?

Multiplying 80K by 3 isn't that hard either. Are we at a point where we need to have them confirm something they've already explicitly stated?

No, but given how many other people have missed that one line its not as clear as you think it is.