Cannith Crafting Discussion - Part 2

[ZhenBuYaoShi]

Crafting Groups:

Group 1:
Guards
False Life
Wizardry
Enchantment Resist
Illusion Resist
Poison Ward
Disease Ward
Will Save
Reflex Save
Fortitude Save
Damage Resistances (fire, acid, cold, etc.)
Skills
Fortification
Incite
Diversion


Group 2 (50):
Negative/Repair/Healing Amp
Absorptions
Parrying
Dodge Bonus
Accuracy
Deadly
Seeker
Shield Bashing
Armor-Piercing
Spell Focuses
Tendon Slice
Vertigo
Stunning
Shatter
Stat Poisons
Spell Pen
Spell Powers
Weapon Damages
Creature Banes


Group 3(100):
Attributes
Spell Saves
Resistance
Riposte
Sheltering
Doublestrike
Doubleshot
Assassinate
Combat Mastery
Melee/Ranged Alacrity
Potency
Weapon Crit Damages
Weapon DRs (good, evil etc)
Spell Lores
Vampirism


Natural Armor is considered insightful so it would show up in the first insightful tier.


Exclusive Effects:

Below is a list of effects exclusive to both Random loot and Cannith crafting. Note: This does not include clickies.

Random:
Vorpal
Speed
Paralyzing
UMD boost
Banishing
Disruption
Smiting
Destruction
Ghostbane (being readded into the random loot system)


Cannith:
Metalline
Alligned
Everbright
Blueshine
Ghost Touch
Invulnerability
Vengeful
Unbalancing
Twilight
Lesser Arcane Spell Dexterity
Songblade
Slowburst/Improved Slowburst
Regeneration
Persuasion
Fearsome
Silver Flame/Sacred/Eternal Faith
Efficient Metamagic
Blindness Immunity
True Seeing


Consideration is being made of adding Good Luck into random loot and having it be craftable. Same goes with Shattermantle. UWA will likely be added to random loot.

Note exactly what's being said here guys, "Below is a list of effects exclusive to both Random loot and Cannith crafting. Note: This does not include clickies.". First, they showed us the shards that will be scaling up and down in the three groups, then, in the quote above, they tell us that these are effects that are going to be separate from the individual systems, but this isn't EVEN including the clickies; they never said they weren't making any clickies guys, or that they were taking the clickies that we already have out, or that there weren't other effects in the system on both sides unwritten up there.

What we really need from the powers that be is a complete list of enchantments, effects, powers, clickies, etc that are going to be available to us crafters, so everyone's nerves can go down just a tich. If we knew exactly what we were being given altogether we could all rest a lot easier.

-----

And, to add my 2 cents to the conversation.

I think that I understand the logic behind the whole Ghost Touch/Ghostbane idea that people are people are having. If you are going to bring in Ghostbane, why not upgrade Ghost Touch, because for me, the enchant has always seemed a bit hollow; however, the added effects in Ghostbane kinda round it out. And, please don't put it in group 2 enchants, because that would make it worthless given the other effects tied to that slot.

Also, the Speed argument. Taking out Striding/Melee/Ranged Alacrity and just replacing it with adjustable Speed would be a fantastic idea. As I'm not sure how you're going to handle the level requirements for Melee and Ranged Alacrity, which level range will be locked away from these enchants? Whereas if you had Speed, you could have Striding/Melee/Ranged Alacrity starting at level 1, and have it increase in power from there. I don't find these to be unreasonable requests given that the random loot gen will get to take care of 3 abilities in one slot, and a crafter never could even do it, because I'm sure that melee and ranged alacrity would take up the same slot, and there is a chance that Striding might, as well.

Absolutely, why not make the Good Lucks, Shattermantle, and UWA accessible to both crafting AND random, I'd like to see that get tossed into the random mix, too. Great ideas.

I haven't seen the weapon damaging abilities yet, you know things that would be comparable to our Acid Burst of before, but like way better, where are those types of effects, elemental and alignment damage that scales with the ML? Wouldn't it be cool if damage procs scaled with spellpower, or melee/ranged power?

[slarden]

You should probably increase the artificer bonus since the # of levels is nearly tripling.

[slarden]

I see a few things missing like good luck, sneak attack bonus, blur, ghostly, improved deception, etc. that I would like to see as part of cannith crafting, but since they aren't in random loot that is probably the reason they aren't craftable. Consider at least making augments for these.

I like the simplification of going down to a single essence and school.

Thank you for letting us get some benefit for our prior crafting. I am sitting at 243,672 crafting xp total for the 3 schools so that is a nice bonus vs. starting from scratch.

I used to get random loot drops with 2 augments (yellow and colorless) but that is no longer the case. Please test and make sure we can craft on old random loot with 2 augments - I wish I saved more but at least I did save some.

Crafting on to bta items should make the item bta like it did with the old system. That was a really nice feature and reward getting bta gear from end reward quests.

Since tome drops have decreased, the purified eberron dragonshards shouldn't be too common in crafting recipes and we should be able to turn in higher level tomes, upgrade tomes and skill tomes for purified eberron dragonshards also.

[mikarddo]

You should probably increase the artificer bonus since the # of levels is nearly tripling.

The xp value of 10 levels in the new system is nearly the same as the value of 10 levels in each of the 3 current schools. Take a look at the xp numbers not just blindly the levels.

So, if any increase is needed it should be to +12 maybe rather than +10, not anymore.

[Faltout]

I haven't seen the weapon damaging abilities yet, you know things that would be comparable to our Acid Burst of before, but like way better, where are those types of effects, elemental and alignment damage that scales with the ML? Wouldn't it be cool if damage procs scaled with spellpower, or melee/ranged power?

Those would be:

weapon's acid effect
weapon's cold effect
weapon's electrifying effect
weapon's fire effect
weapon's law effect
weapon's chaos effect
weapon's good effect
weapon's evil damage effect
weapon's poison effect

and the scaling would be (with a small margin of error):
Dice: Levels
1d6: 1-3
2d6: 4-10
3d6: 11-18
4d6: 19-23
5d6: 24-28
6d6: 29-33
7d6: 34

[NoWorries]

Conversion of old essences to new essences will be done by the player. This means no bags will explode as you log in on patch day. It also means you can store the old ones until you need new essences. And there will be recipes to convert them in different groups at once (therefore you will not need to hit repeat a thousand times to convert your essences).

There are fewer steps to create an item now, which should help with the grindy feel of making things. Also, we are trying the new recipes with the machine animations off. As long as that doesn't result in any issues, that will be a big delay pulled out of the system as well.

The same machines will be used as before. The guild ship amenities should be up and running on patch day (minus normal airship load times after a server restart).

All of the different crafting bonuses (potions, artificer, Mark of Making) are planned to work the same after the change over.

[Livmo]

Conversion of old essences to new essences will be done by the player. This means no bags will explode as you log in on patch day. It also means you can store the old ones until you need new essences. And there will be recipes to convert them in different groups at once (therefore you will not need to hit repeat a thousand times to convert your essences).

There are fewer steps to create an item now, which should help with the grindy feel of making things. Also, we are trying the new recipes with the machine animations off. As long as that doesn't result in any issues, that will be a big delay pulled out of the system as well.

The same machines will be used as before. The guild ship amenities should be up and running on patch day (minus normal airship load times after a server restart).

All of the different crafting bonuses (potions, artificer, Mark of Making) are planned to work the same after the change over.

I'm OK with the animations going away. The machines bug out too much and I have to close them and re-open. Lots of lag.

I like the animations and sounds, but not neccessary if it will reduce the buggy lag associated with Cannith Crafting.

[LrdSlvrhnd]

I'm OK with the animations going away. The machines bug out too much and I have to close them and re-open. Lots of lag.

I like the animations and sounds, but not neccessary if it will reduce the buggy lag associated with Cannith Crafting.

I never even *see* the animations behind the crafting screen (and frequently inventory screen), and the sounds get really old old after a few dozen times. I'm all for removing them entirely. Although maybe keep them as a static loop (similar to NPCs looking/moving around) and just divorcing them from the actual crafting process?

I'd also be all for giving crafting its own 'channel', I've missed a lot of friends signing on & off while deconning 80 items at a go because those messages share the same chat as the crafting spam *g*

[SilkofDrasnia]

Nice way to mess with people that had C Crafting maxed out through hard work....... making them start again..... just to spite a certain group devs have an issue with.

[Aelonwy]

Conversion of old essences to new essences will be done by the player. This means no bags will explode as you log in on patch day. It also means you can store the old ones until you need new essences. And there will be recipes to convert them in different groups at once (therefore you will not need to hit repeat a thousand times to convert your essences).

There are fewer steps to create an item now, which should help with the grindy feel of making things. Also, we are trying the new recipes with the machine animations off. As long as that doesn't result in any issues, that will be a big delay pulled out of the system as well.

The same machines will be used as before. The guild ship amenities should be up and running on patch day (minus normal airship load times after a server restart).

All of the different crafting bonuses (potions, artificer, Mark of Making) are planned to work the same after the change over.

Thank you again for answering a great many questions in one fell swoop, and thank you for your continued efforts and patience. There are unfortunately still some questions yet to be answered. Such as will damage types that are intended to break damage reduction such as holy/evil/law/chaos etc going to actually do so in future random loot? Will banishing, smiting, disruption and their variations of improved/greater etc. rejoin the random loot tables? Some effects have not been mentioned in the OP such as Deathblock, Mobility, and Bloodrage among others and many would like a complete and detailed list of all effects disappearing from Cannith Crafting forever after. Will the bug on random generated ranged weapons and handwraps that only gives one die of damage no matter the amount listed be fixed? Will this bug be included in Cannith Crafting if it is not fixed in time? Please allow us to craft speed or full striding.

As to collectibles, because collectibles are used for a wide range of game objectives now including alchemical rituals, trade-ins for augments, some buffing and healing items, ammunition and through small, medium, and large eberron dragonshard fragments a host of useful and much desired items such as XP elixers, trinkets of mnemonic enhancers and above all with the abysmal drop rate of tomes the only regular source of Purified Eberron Dragonshard Fragments please ensure that these collectibles can still be found throughout Eberron and at most if not all levels. Please do not scuttle the drop rate of these collectibles with your collectible changes because that will make any and all recipes using Purified Eberron Dragonshard Fragments essentially store-only or Astral Shard only recipes. This would be painful enough if such recipes were for end product/level cap recipes but if allowed to filter into the necessary-for-gaining-crafting xp portion of the recipes would be looked upon with disfavor to say the least.

[Hal24]

Without lowering the ML of Rune Arms through masterful craftmanship most Rune Arms don't stay up to par of being level appropriate. Same goes for the House C challenge gear/items (those few items that are left worthwhile of the grind, thanks to the OP new random loot). Basically my point being, whether it be through masterful craftmanship or some other crafting mechanic, a way to lower these items ML requirements is important. Maybe masterful craftmanship can lower the ML requirements and then Wondrous Craftmanship could be used to apply a third effect? or vice versa, where Masterful craftmanship applies a third effect while Wondrous Craftmanship reduces the ML. So far it looks as if the current plans for the new Masterful Craftsmanship are not a thing the players hav been begging for. In fact i see more comments from players wanting to lower the ML of items rather than placing a 3rd effect on an item

[zehnvhex]

Conversion of old essences to new essences will be done by the player.

NoWorries, can you comment on whether or not the nearly absurd amount of update specific crafting systems will ever be addressed? That is to say, as others have stated, there are over 30 different 'crafting' systems in the game right now. Some more obscure and confusing then others. New players may not even know that half of them exist and many of them are for items that have long been eclipsed in power levels. I would wager 90% of players don't even know what the Stone of Change is for anymore for example.

----

And since I make it a policy for my employees to always offer a solution with every problem they bring to me, I will do the same!

A simpler system of say, maybe, 3 essences? Blue, green and red essences. Blue for non-raid content, green for Normal/hard/non LE raiding and red for LE raiding. Put a hard cap on how many you can stockpile (just slightly more then 1 or 2 high level items or 5 or 6 low level ones). Next, you only unlock the ability to 'purchase' items with these essences if you own the content and have beaten it at least once. So no getting GS items unless you bought Vale. You get essences in all content regardless of whether or not that stuff has a crafting system attached to it.

On the downside you'll have sandy veterans complaining about how you can farm easier content to get crafted items from harder content (doing VoN to get thunderforged for example) but if they beat it once showing they have the time and wherewithal to do it...who cares? On the upside I honestly think it would spark raiding again at least. I think tons of people would love to do all the raids to gather essences as fast as they could. I think the payoff would far outweigh the negatives, especially for newer players who are simply intimidated by all the systems in the game and honestly don't know they should hold onto and what no longer has any value.

[Hal24]

we need to be able to convert tomes above +2 into materials for crafting. Many players have toons that have +5 tomes and over on all stats. If i grind out 5k total favor, my favor reward is utterly useless. please implement a way to convert these tomes into something useful. Ability to convert skill tomes as well would be useful.

[Thar]

Will item aug slots remain like today? ie double slots from old gear?

[arkonas]

Nice way to mess with people that had C Crafting maxed out through hard work....... making them start again..... just to spite a certain group devs have an issue with.

what are you talking about? they will be starting up there in level. did you think that your xp would be wiped? if you read the discussion you will not lose anything just be merged into the new levels with the xp earned. not sure where you thought you would lose everything.

[LrdSlvrhnd]

what are you talking about? they will be starting up there in level. did you think that your xp would be wiped? if you read the discussion you will not lose anything just be merged into the new levels with the xp earned. not sure where you thought you would lose everything.

He thinks he'll "lose" because he WAS maxed, and now will no longer be maxed. Nevermind that he'll still be able to make everything except ML 27-30 shards (instead of, y'know, topping out at 20 with the right combination); Unbound ML 21-30 (instead of, y'know, topping out at 20 with the right combo of a very limited set that means you probably can't actually hit ML20 for unbound weapons to get the Epic Weapon buff); Insightful Group 3 (instead of, y'know, no Insightful); and Unbound Insightful (instead of, y'know, no Insightful). But he'll still be losing out 'cause he currently is maxed, and will no longer be so.

[pjw]

All of the different crafting bonuses (potions, artificer, Mark of Making) are planned to work the same after the change over.

1. [IGNORE THIS 'mikkardo' answered it] Still looking to understand the level vs. difficulty settings. If it's the same as before then max difficulty would be 410. Which means that the following are impossible:

- ML14!!!(140) Insightful(175) Stat(100) = 415 Really????
- ML17 Unbound(150) Stat(100) = 420

Can we get a clarification on what you *intend* should be impossible?

2. Also, some answers on the very many missing or deprecated effects, as well as some info on new effects like "Critical Piercing" would help.

3. Finally, please make this system easily expandable so as new effects are added the system does not get left behing as happened last time.

[mikarddo]

1. Still looking to understand the level vs. difficulty settings. If it's the same as before then max difficulty would be 410. Which means that the following are impossible:

- ML14!!!(140) Insightful(175) Stat(100) = 415 Really????
- ML17 Unbound(150) Stat(100) = 420

Can we get a clarification on what you *intend* should be impossible?

You dont add the difficulty of the ML shard to the difficulty of the effect shard. These are seperate.

The highest level needed for bound ML shards will be 340.
The levels for "normal" bound shards will be: 1, 50 and 100.
The levels for insightful bound shards will be: 175, 225 and 275

The highest level needed for unbound ML shards will be 390.
The levels for "normal" unbound shards will be: 150, 200 and 250
The levels for insightful unbound shards will be: 325, 375 and 425
Its currently not known if it will be possible to craft the 3rd group in insightful unbound somehow with low success rate or not.

So, at level 340 you can craft anything bound.

[pjw]

You dont add the difficulty of the ML shard to the difficulty of the effect shard. These are seperate.

Can you point me to where this has been clearly stated by a dev? In particular, the first post says:

The lowest group would be difficulty 1, the second group would be difficulty 50, and the final group would be difficulty 100.
Unbound would be +150 so 150, 200, 250
Insightful would be +175 so 175, 225, 275
which means unbound insightful would be 325, 375, 425

Note the use of the '+'; I hope you are right but I didn't see anything to suggest the ML was not also added.

[Hilltrot]

Nice way to mess with people that had C Crafting maxed out through hard work....... making them start again..... just to spite a certain group devs have an issue with.

Huh?

You spent a lot of hard work working on Cannith Crafting.

They are trying to make Cannith Crafting worthwhile again.

You complain.

Huh?