Cannith Crafting Discussion - Part 2

[Amundir]

So do we finally get to craft Paralyzing / Vorpal now using Cannith crafting?

It says they are exclusive. So, no.


Two questions:
#1

"The new essence will stack to at least 10,000."

Where? Things can stack in inventory, bags, bank, etc. Where, exactly?

#2
I don't really read any clear language about how ML will be affected/compounded as multiple shards are applied to an item.

[Aelonwy]

Below is a list of effects exclusive to both Random loot and Cannith crafting. Note: This does not include clickies.

Random:
Vorpal
Speed
Paralyzing
UMD boost
Feather Fall Effect
Underwater Action Effect (being added into the random loot system)
Banishing
Disruption
Smiting
Destruction
Ghostbane (being readded into the random loot system)

I have some issues with this... it is my very firm opinion that Speed, Feather fall, and Underwater Action should be Cannith craftable. FF & UA have already been craftable for some time and have been nothing but helpful to new players and new alts. Does having these craftable cut into your sales of FF & UA augments? Because taking them out of the crafting tables isn't going to make me spend $ on augments, I'll just have a switch-in item if necessary. About Speed, it was aggravating when the original cannith crafting did not have striding that went all the way to 30% and not including Speed in the crafting borders on intentionally poking a dragon in the eye. As long as Banishing/Disruption/Smiting still fall in random loot I am okay with not being able to craft them. Since you guys created the Improved/Greater/Sovereign versions of these effects I had hoped we'd at least be allowed the base version for crafting but I'm not upset that you've disallowed it. You guys really should look into some scaling effect for paralyzing because its ridiculous, literally ridicule-worthy that an effect with a DC17 will save drops on EPIC level random loot. You do realize that random gen loot paralyze is barely worth it to use after level 16? There are some areas where it can be used reasonably successfully but it becomes much less effective as time goes on and newer high level content is added with higher mob saves.

A couple other questions has it been fixed so that ranged weapons apply all the elemental/law/chaos/holy/evil multiple die damage per hit? That is random ranged weapons & handwraps are known to the player base to only apply 1 die of this damage even if the weapons says it should do 3d6 evil damage for example it only applies 1d6. Has this been looked into and fixed?

Do Holy/Evil/Law/Chaos damages now apply/break the appropriate damage reduction?

[Free2Pay]

Such a disappointment.

[dunklezhan]

I hope Underwater Action items start dropping plentifully then, if we're not going to be able to craft them anymore. UWA has become a pretty essential part of the game, just like Feather Falling. I haven't seen an old or new random loot UWA item since the system change.

Well, we're getting blindness ward as a unique - I'm happy with that as a trade off. Anyway, half the problem in lootgen currently is that everything seems to have an equal chance to drop. But that actually helps you here: since UWA is already something you only swap on when needed you don't care what the item comes with - so I wouldn't worry. It'll drop.

I HATE the fact we're going to have to get more Collectables. What is the obsession with adding Collectables and Ingredients all the time? Constant expanding the amount of mats with every Update, but not being able to add storage space, because of technical limitations, is a serious issue. Sure, 24 Ingredients are being removed (counting 1 of the Dissolver/Remover.) But while we're losing those from the Ingredients bags, we're gaining more that have to go in the Collectable bags. I have 7 or 8 characters that already have full Small & Medium Collectable bags, that are full of Collectables that don't work with Cannith Crafting. It's certainly better than making us use Skill/Stat Tomes or rare items, but still a poor decision IMHO.

The fact we're getting more collectibles, for me, makes up for the fact we're dumbing down the lore to just one essence, by re-smartening it by adding more collectibles and making them level based. Before you were hunting lots of different and artbitrarily obtained essences and similarly fairly arbitrarily obtained collectibles from pretty much anywhere, until you got enough to make whatever. Now you are hunting magical fragments that could come from anywhere to combine with collected ingredients which I suspect will relate to power level of the recipe, because importantly they which will come from specific level ranges of content. It makes sense as a crafting system, and it helps them tie crafting power to the power required to get all the ingredients. That's good.

But yes, I absolutely do hope it doesn't introduce a higher total number of things to collect. Ideally NoWorries means that they're relisting all the collectibles that are already in game, and just adding more to the top ten levels. Either way, it certainly switches the load to a different bag...

Are we not going to be able to exchange Lesser Essences for the new essence?

Will crafted weapons with specific Weapon DR actually bypass DR? Will Random Loot weapons be fixed to bypass DR?

This I do not know, but I would like the answers.

[Tricosene]

Yes. He said so in the previous thread.

Thanks Faltout, I (obviously) missed that.

[dunklezhan]

I have some issues with this... it is my very firm opinion that Speed, Feather fall, and Underwater Action should be Cannith craftable. FF & UA have already been craftable for some time and have been nothing but helpful to new players and new alts. Does having these craftable cut into your sales of FF & UA augments? Because taking them out of the crafting tables isn't going to make me spend $ on augments, I'll just have a switch-in item if necessary. About Speed, it was aggravating when the original cannith crafting did not have striding that went all the way to 30% and not including Speed in the crafting borders on intentionally poking a dragon in the eye.

I agree with all of that, certainly don't take my comment that keeping blindness ward is an acceptable trade off to mean I'm in favour of all of those lower level "universal" effects being taken away. I phrased it badly, I just meant I was pleased we were at least keeping blindness ward.

Similarly for speed... yeah. Vexing that we can't make that. Feels like a real 'just because' limitation.

Maybe they were just trying to make sure there is one effect per slot that's unique in each table?

[Aelonwy]

Oh yes I forgot to ask... What is going to happen with these:

Rune Arms

Cannith Challenge Gear

What will Cannith Marks be used for going forward? Or will they just be another forgotten favor reward?

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

Will we be ale to exchange LESSER ESSENCE FOR THE NEW ESSENCE?

I know myself and many others probably have tens of thousands of lesser essence from deconning.

Even if the exchange is 100:1, PLEASE make sure we can do this.

[Saekee]

1) I assume the crafting effects will be on par with lootgen? The current 'parrying' crafted effect is lousy compared to lootgen
2) you placed 'skills' in group one. So no making insightful skill bonuses? In fact, all of group one could have an insightful version
3) I am glad to see disruption etc making its way back to lootgen. Please consider bringing back the funner ones too like phlebotemizing, obscenity, etc.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

I hope Underwater Action items start dropping plentifully then, if we're not going to be able to craft them anymore. UWA has become a pretty essential part of the game, just like Feather Falling. I haven't seen an old or new random loot UWA item since the system change.

I HATE the fact we're going to have to get more Collectables. What is the obsession with adding Collectables and Ingredients all the time? Constant expanding the amount of mats with every Update, but not being able to add storage space, because of technical limitations, is a serious issue. Sure, 24 Ingredients are being removed (counting 1 of the Dissolver/Remover.) But while we're losing those from the Ingredients bags, we're gaining more that have to go in the Collectable bags. I have 7 or 8 characters that already have full Small & Medium Collectable bags, that are full of Collectables that don't work with Cannith Crafting. It's certainly better than making us use Skill/Stat Tomes or rare items, but still a poor decision IMHO.

Are we not going to be able to exchange Lesser Essences for the new essence?

Will crafted weapons with specific Weapon DR actually bypass DR? Will Random Loot weapons be fixed to bypass DR?

Yes PLEASE NO MORE NEW INGREDIENTS OR COLLECTABLES.

WE HAVE ENOUGH!!

Get creative, use things we don't use anymore like the eyeballs and magefire cannon parts and any of the other 1000 different ingredients we have from all the disjointed crafting systems we already have!

[NoWorries]

UWA and Feather Fall effects will be craftable as well, adjusted the OP.

[mikarddo]

Will we be ale to exchange LESSER ESSENCE FOR THE NEW ESSENCE?

I know myself and many others probably have tens of thousands of lesser essence from deconning.

Even if the exchange is 100:1, PLEASE make sure we can do this.

Logically, it should be 5:1 as thats the rate you get if you exchange greaters to lessers. But confirmation would be good.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

Logically, it should be 5:1 as thats the rate you get if you exchange greaters to lessers. But confirmation would be good.

Agree completely. I'm just begging and pleading For ANY EXCHANGE at this point!

[Silverleafeon]

First read thru.

All in all, looks pretty good.
Nothing stands out as major objections.

Interested in the change in collectables, as I have long thought that higher level quests ought to drop different collectables.
Would like to see a bit of evening out of collectable drops as well, some items overflow the bags a lot more than others.

[mikarddo]

#2
I don't really read any clear language about how ML will be affected/compounded as multiple shards are applied to an item.

The effects do not change the ML. Similarly to how the new lootgen autoscales effects so it will be with Cannith Crafted items. So, you craft a shard the sets the ML of the item. You then craft the effects and when you apply those the ML does not change but rather the value of the effect autoscales to the ML.

[Silverleafeon]

Logically, it should be 5:1 as thats the rate you get if you exchange greaters to lessers. But confirmation would be good.

Seems reasonable to me.

[Cordovan]

There will be an exchange of Lesser Essences to the new Cannith Essences; exact ratio to be determined. It won't be 1:1 though.

We have not yet finalized our plans for Cannith Challenge gear and rune arms, but there will be some form of Cannith crafting available to them as well.

[Zebedar]

Level 50: 1,256
Level 100: 7,313
Level 150: 30,151
Level 260: 245,580
Level 340: 472,752
Level 400: 650,040

There will be an exchange of Lesser Essences to the new Cannith Essences; exact ratio to be determined. It won't be 1:1 though.

We have not yet finalized our plans for Cannith Challenge gear and rune arms, but there will be some form of Cannith crafting available to them as well.

This is unacceptable, I didn't grind out all those levels and hoard 7 years of essences to have them invalidated by you with a update that is transparently desinged to force me to spend money for Turbine's bottom line, and do nothing to improve player experience.

Go back to the drawing board or get ready for civil-unrest al'a bridge.

[ComicRelief]

1) I would be OK if "good luck" were left OUT of crafting. (Frankly, I think I'd prefer that it not be available in crafting.)

2) You say the exchange rate on essences would be 1:1 for greater:new. What about lesser? Will those be able to be exchanged (presumably at a higher rate, like say, 5:1 or 10:1, as examples) or do they become "worthless"?

3) The question of collectibles re Eberron lore has previously been asked, but I'll ask again. When you say removing the Eberron lore items, specifically mentioning soarwood, do you mean they will only be removed from the FR collectibles? i.e. We'll still be able to find soarwood (and other Eberron lore collictbles) in Eberron? As has been pointed out, some collectibles are still used in other crafting systems, such as the Eldritch crafting, specifically the lightning-split soarwood.

4) If I recall correctly, there was the potential of adding 'clickies' into the new Cannith crafting system - is that still the case? (I think most of us hope they will be, even if added later and not in the initial revamp release.)

5) So with the new collectible tiers, is the thought behind that to "encourage" running lower levels and difficulties? i.e. I need a tier 1-5 collectible, therefore the only way would be to run a level 1-5 quest on "normal" to get it (other than buying on the AH, of course)?

Inquiring minds, and all that...

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

There will be an exchange of Lesser Essences to the new Cannith Essences; exact ratio to be determined. It won't be 1:1 though.

We have not yet finalized our plans for Cannith Challenge gear and rune arms, but there will be some form of Cannith crafting available to them as well.

Thanks for the clarification.

I don't think anybody is expecting or asking for a 1:1 lesser to new ratio. I think the consensus is a 5:1 would be best considering the current sundering ratio.

But I don't think people will complain if it is 10:1 just as long as we CAN exchange them.