Cannith Crafting Discussion - Part 2

[legendkilleroll]

So, uhhhhh, NoWorries. Are you ever going to actually update this post to put Feather Falling and Underwater Action on the Cannith list LIKE YOU SAID YOU WERE GOING TO DO?

Wow, some people sure do make a big deal over small things like this.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

There used to be random trinkets with Woundrous Craftsmanship, wasn't there?

Not that I know of. But I am far from all knowing!

[GeoffWatson]

There used to be random trinkets with Woundrous Craftsmanship, wasn't there?

They can still drop with the chain rewards for Storm Horns and Wheloon. Rare though.

[Gremmlynn]

There used to be random trinkets with Woundrous Craftsmanship, wasn't there?

Yes. I pulled one or two from Wheloon, maybe just chain reward lists though.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

Yes. I pulled one or two from Wheloon, maybe just chain reward lists though.

What did/do they have on them as far as effects?

[NoWorries]

So, uhhhhh, NoWorries. Are you ever going to actually update this post to put Feather Falling and Underwater Action on the Cannith list LIKE YOU SAID YOU WERE GOING TO DO?

Those are lists of exclusive effects. Since the effects will be in both Random Loot and Cannith, they do not belong on either list. The lists are accurate at this time.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

Those are lists of exclusive effects. Since the effects will be in both Random Loot and Cannith, they do not belong on either list. The lists are accurate at this time.

Any word on trinkets? Since there are no rand gen ones, can we still craft on trinkets?

[changelingamuck]

Any word on trinkets? Since there are no rand gen ones, can we still craft on trinkets?

I can't remember trinkets being specifically mentioned. But really, I highly doubt you have to worry about trinkets being craftable. There's no reason why they would be removed from the system.

Also, craftable trinkets are rare drops in all chests.

[slarden]

I can't remember trinkets being specifically mentioned. But really, I highly doubt you have to worry about trinkets being craftable. There's no reason why they would be removed from the system.

Also, craftable trinkets are rare drops in all chests.

Since no random loot effects drop on trinkets it's a valid concern. My guess is by default no shards will work on trinkets unless it's specifically coded in by the devs.

[Sven_Hoek]

If you do decide to take out flexible shards, then the resultant effect will be one of nothing, but utter frustration, and disappointment. Have you heard one person not say don't take away flexible shards, if they choose to mention it? No one feels like it's a good idea, none of the players' council people, none of the hardcore crafters, none of the hardcore hardasses that wanted crafting to be less powerful are even saying flexible shards should be in, THAT, should tell you something right there. When you got the naysayers of crafting talking about flexible shards should stay in the system, and everyone that uses the system saying they should stay in the system, then what are you doing? Because, you're not doing it for ANY of us, because NONE of us want it gone and ALL of us, some of us wholeheartedly, want it in. Can you please take us seriously, and not just ignore us when something gets brought up at least a dozen times, because we're the ones that are going to be stuck using this stuff for the next 5 years, our input matters, A LOT! I mean, the stuff you're choosing take your time out to answer are things of no consequence. For example, we're having a discussion, we're having a discussion, then some random person comes on with a question about will the augment apply to the ML of the item, which was explained several posts prior, and the dude just didn't understand, and you see we're having several real discussions about things we find terribly important, and you answer this guy. ***?

You make a strong point about dilution of important subjects that get lost in many pages of discussion. IF someone has the time, it would be nice if they could create a priority list of subjects, provide a short comment and prioritize each. Also, others can add comments within the "reply" under the appropriate subject (we are limited using archaic message boards)

1. Removal of Flexible shards -
a) should not do -
b) but if you must remove them then please make the "3rd Master Craft slot" fully flexible and be allowed to be unbound as well.

2. Collectible Requirement - needs explained in more detail -
a) are you adding NEW lower level collectibles too? if so, why not use the current collectibles?
b) Will we need to grind relentless hours for a rare collectible for a common ability?

.
.
.

x) What are target dates before going live? (e.g. so we have time to create items under to old setup.)
.
.
and so on....so on...

z) Will the augment apply to the min level?

[changelingamuck]

Since no random loot effects drop on trinkets it's a valid concern. My guess is by default no shards will work on trinkets unless it's specifically coded in by the devs.

Shards of Power from the Shroud and the aforementioned craftable trinkets are already coded to accept shards. There's no reason to suddenly leave them out of the system. It's not like they have to do a ton of extra work to incorporate them. They're already there. I'm just saying that I highly, highly doubt you have anything to worry about in that regard. It would be exceedingly strange for trinkets to be left out of the system.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

Shards of Power from the Shroud and the aforementioned craftable trinkets are already coded to accept shards. There's no reason to suddenly leave them out of the system. It's not like they have to do a ton of extra work to incorporate them. They're already there. I'm just saying that I highly, highly doubt you have anything to worry about in that regard. It would be exceedingly strange for trinkets to be left out of the system.

Yeah....BUT WHAT SHARDS???

Since the new system is going to allow only effects from random loot to be crafted onto an item ......and since there are no random gen trinkets.......WHAT THE HECK CAN WE CRAFT ON THEM?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Nobody is doubting the existence of craftable trinkets........it's just that NOBODY knows what we will be able to slot there since there is no random loot trinket with effects as a baseline.

[slarden]

Shards of Power from the Shroud and the aforementioned craftable trinkets are already coded to accept shards. There's no reason to suddenly leave them out of the system. It's not like they have to do a ton of extra work to incorporate them. They're already there. I'm just saying that I highly, highly doubt you have anything to worry about in that regard. It would be exceedingly strange for trinkets to be left out of the system.

With the old crafting system. I agree it's a valid destination, but shard can only go on items they are on for random loot and there are no random loot trinkets with the new abilities.

if the devs don't specifically address this it's reasonable to think it might not work. that is why it's good to bring up this issue here.

[Coyopa]

Wow, some people sure do make a big deal over small things like this.

Since they have a tendency to leave things out when they aren't documented (and sometimes even when they are), yes I'm going to make a big deal out of it. I happen to craft FF and UWA items for my characters for use during low levels and I would like to continue to be able to do so.

Those are lists of exclusive effects. Since the effects will be in both Random Loot and Cannith, they do not belong on either list. The lists are accurate at this time.

You could word your posts a little better then because the post where you said you'd add them back makes it seem like they should be on the list. It'd be really nice if the original post were easier to understand, as well. Instead, it's full of information and lists that cross between one another and you have to go read each list, then compare it to every other list in order to make heads or tails out of what the **** is supposed to be going on. I mean, I don't have time to sit here most of the day and parse your posts to make sure I understand them exactly as you intended them to be understood. It's why I have rarely posted in this thread. But since I'm here, I'm just going to say that the addition of more collectibles is unwanted and insane. That's just one piece of negative feedback I could offer you, but again ... time.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

With the old crafting system. I agree it's a valid destination, but shard can only go on items they are on for random loot and there are no random loot trinkets with the new abilities.

if the devs don't specifically address this it's reasonable to think it might not work. that is why it's good to bring up this issue here.

Exactly this.

And since we haven't heard anything about it I'm picturing some devs right now going, "Oh! Eff! We forgot about trinkets! Hurry up and get something together and we'll send NoWorries back to the forums and it will look like we had a plan all along!"

[Krelar]

Those are lists of exclusive effects. Since the effects will be in both Random Loot and Cannith, they do not belong on either list. The lists are accurate at this time.

Unless your going to create scaling versions of those effects, shouldn't they be in one of the crafting groups in your lists? (no idea how that would work unless you incorporated a "speed" component)

[changelingamuck]

Yeah....BUT WHAT SHARDS???

Since the new system is going to allow only effects from random loot to be crafted onto an item ......and since there are no random gen trinkets.......WHAT THE HECK CAN WE CRAFT ON THEM?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Nobody is doubting the existence of craftable trinkets........it's just that NOBODY knows what we will be able to slot there since there is no random loot trinket with effects as a baseline.

Well, in general, we don't know what enchantments specifically that we'll be able to craft into what slots in the revamped system. We haven't gotten there yet. Why assume that there's going to be a (very, very unlikely) senseless omission? It's *possible* that they could remove all kobolds from DDO in the next update, but is it likely enough to actually worry about? No. The upcoming update isn't slated to come out until sometime next month (according to DDOwiki). I'm sure we'll be seeing more aspects of the system presented over time, including what enchantments can be crafted into what slots (and I'd say it's very safe to assume that will include trinkets).

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

Well, in general, we don't know what enchantments specifically that we'll be able to craft into what slots in the revamped system. We haven't gotten there yet. Why assume that there's going to be a (very, very unlikely) senseless omission? It's *possible* that they could remove all kobolds from DDO in the next update, but is it likely enough to actually worry about? No. The upcoming update isn't slated to come out until sometime next month (according to DDOwiki). I'm sure we'll be seeing more aspects of the system presented over time, including what enchantments can be crafted into what slots (and I'd say it's very safe to assume that will include trinkets).

NO! We DO know this. It is based on what can be found on random loot items.

[Aelonwy]

I'm sure we'll be seeing more aspects of the system presented over time, including what enchantments can be crafted into what slots (and I'd say it's very safe to assume that will include trinkets).

You are right that we will see more of the system as time progresses but you are sadly wrong about it being safe to assume anything.

I assumed a weapon with xd6 good damage would break good DR reduction when I came back to the game after Christmas... I was wrong.

I assumed a New random loot ranged weapon did xd6 whatever damage... I was wrong, 1d6 no matter what it says.

I assumed I was just really unlucky that I hadn't looted a banishing/smiting/disruption weapon... nope they're gone from the tables.

Don't assume they remembered about trinkets, those randomly generated trinkets with enchantments that show up on certain end reward lists may be pulled from different loot tables than our NEW random loot just like the end reward lists for some quests and chains still occasionally drop mithril which is otherwise no longer in the game.

ASK, ask repeatedly, ask often, but above all ask politely. The devs are human too, they make mistakes, they forget things, they get overwhelmed by over-busy schedules. But there is no harm in us bringing up concerns that may have gone under the radar otherwise.

[changelingamuck]

NO! We DO know this. It is based on what can be found on random loot items.

That's only a piece of the puzzle. Some enchantments are exclusive to Cannith crafting for instance. Do we know what slots those enchantments will be craftable on?

You're certainly entitled to worry about whatever you feel like. It's my opinion though that's it's a non-issue and ridiculously unlikely and your blood pressure is better off spent worrying about actual problems that exist rather than a design omission that would be totally counter-intuitive and downright bizarre if it actually became an issue.