Cannith Crafting Discussion - Part 2

[Aelonwy]

Nothing wrong with asking for clarification but pretty sure they are expecting weapon damage effects to be separate from weapon DR effects. It wouldn't make sense for a group 2 effect to do what a group 3 effect does and add damage on top of it.

I was thinking weapon damage effects in group 2 were the elemental damages (nothing I can think of in-game requires a particular element to beat damage reduction) and possibly things like bleed, screaming, etc

While he specifically called out good and evil in group 3 Weapon DR effects... nonetheless those particular effects in NEW random generated loot as we speak FAIL to apply their DR quality to the weapons upon which they are generated. Thus do not in fact break damage reduction as should be intended.

[LrdSlvrhnd]

Having an augment slot will not have an effect on the ML. Placing an augment into the slot that has a higher ML than the ML of the item will cause the ML to increase.

Thank you for confirming this. Although I see people are still confused, it seems clear enough for me: The slot (in and of itself, without taking into account what might be IN the slot) will have ZERO effect on the ML of the item, which will be based solely on the "Minimum Level shard" (or whatever the terminology is). IE, an ML 12 item will be an ML 12 item will be an ML 12 item, regardless of whether it has 0, 1, or 2 slots.

Although now I'm concerned about the "weapon damage" and "weapon DR" being listed separately, since it seems that simply having Holy on an item won't make the weapon good-aligned, which seems to imply that that being the case in lootgen is either WAI, or not WAI but gonna stay that way, which makes me sad, because I don't like that.

[azrael4h]

I don't agree with this, if this is in fact the direction the Dev's are taking.

There's a reason Holy and Pure Good are two different effects, because they offer two different damage amounts. In fact, the select group of Holy, Unholy, Axiomatic, and Anarchic are apparently being bypassed in this update.

Which is irrelevant because the damage scales with level now. Meaning instead of Pure Good doing 1d6 damage and Holy 2d6, you get Good damage on a weapon, which does 1d6 at ML1, 3d6 at ML 15, 5d6 at ML 25 etc... (again, I don't have the numbers handy, and I am too apathetic to care to look them up). The 2d6 damage types are not being bypassed, they were merged with the 1d6 damage effects that had the same damage type, and now they scale to level, like 99% of the item effects in the game now.

Now you probably won't get an ML2 2D6 effect going any more. But, quite frankly I don't think it matters. I tend to not even bother getting much gear other than my twink Moderate/Heavy fort items on my TRs, unless I'm a trapper. I may craft an invulnerability item, and my two-handed users of course grab the almighty Carnifex. Last couple of lives I didn't even bother then. I'm almost level 7 on my current lowest level TR, and the only thing I've grabbed was an old ML5 Moderate Fort belt and my VotM. For the most part, until L8-9 or so, I just use whatever lootgen I get, as it's enough to handle low level elites.

[Gremmlynn]

I don't agree with this, if this is in fact the direction the Dev's are taking.

There's a reason Holy and Pure Good are two different effects, because they offer two different damage amounts. In fact, the select group of Holy, Unholy, Axiomatic, and Anarchic are apparently being bypassed in this update.

A Holy effect in current crafting could be added by itself and result in level 2 wield, while producing 2-12 points of damage (an excellent boost at Level 2 wield). Will we see that level of damage from a generic alignment craft into the gear? Apparently not, which is why we players should expect more, and specifically - expect to see those 4 x effects left in the Game.

Actually the damage amount isn't the only difference. Holy (etc.) does 2d6 damage to evil opponents, Pure Good (etc.) does 1d6 damage to non-good opponents, thus also works on neutrals.

The new effects seem to work on pretty much everything for good and evil and everything except their alignment for law or chaos.

[knightgf]

Maybe I missed these questions in earlier posts, but I had some about the upcoming changes to cannith crafting:

• Can you craft clickies (A.K.A. items that cast spells when used)? If so, can you give us examples of what we can craft (Haste, rage, cure serious wounds, restoration, exc?)
• Will the tutorial for cannith crafting change when the new cannith crafting system comes out? I would love to keep my -1 quarterstaff of lesser halfling bane if it changes so I can have one of those 'back then' moments!
• Will we be able to craft 'curses' or 'drawbacks' on items to reduce their minimum level? (I know it's a silly and improbable question, but I had to ask)
• Will items crafted through the cannith crafting system be compatible with recipes from the stone of change and festival events?
• Will the Cannith challenge items and/or named runearms be compatable with the new cannith crafting system?

Thanks.

[Gremmlynn]

Will the +X enhancement bonus exclusive to armor, shields and weapons be something baked into the ML or will it have to be added (I didn't see a listing for this in the groups) and take up a slot?

[slarden]

I missed the point about collectibles - and "new ones will drop in higher levels". This is another thing bad for new players - collecting essences and selling them was a way to make plat.

Have you thought about how new players get their economy going? Why are you making it harder?

I realize in recent times this way of making plat would not be as effective as most no longer craft, but you are also taking away basic items that you could craft as a new player (no find secret doors, no UWA) so that people will want to buy that...

I remember constantly being broke as a new player. Just an additional stress in a steep learning game. Not fun.

It's not bad for new players if the ingredients dropping in high level quests are used for higher level recipes. It's bad if you need to run a level 30 quest to make a level 50 crafted item, but I doubt that will be the case.

It's bad for people that rarely run anything above level 20, but they can broaden their horizons a bit if they want to craft.

I just wouldn't like to see them drop new crafting ingredients in quest/raids rarely run.

[JOTMON]

It's not bad for new players if the ingredients dropping in high level quests are used for higher level recipes. It's bad if you need to run a level 30 quest to make a level 50 crafted item, but I doubt that will be the case.

It's bad for people that rarely run anything above level 20, but they can broaden their horizons a bit if they want to craft.

I just wouldn't like to see them drop new crafting ingredients in quest/raids rarely run.

I can deal with level tiered collectables as long as we can still accommodate them in the bag space we have..

I can only hope they don't screw us and make all these new ingredients/collectibles bound as seems to be the trend they have started to go with..
or do stupid stuff like putting needed collectibles in obscure locations in specific quests/raids ...

[Greantun]

[*]Will we be able to craft 'curses' or 'drawbacks' on items to reduce their minimum level? (I know it's a silly and improbable question, but I had to ask)

No. These are not in any new random loot either. Remember the ML is crafted on, and everything is scaled to that ML. So if you want a lower ML, craft on a lower ML shard.

[*]Will the Cannith challenge items and/or named runearms be compatable with the new cannith crafting system?

Can't seem to find the thread, but either NoWorries or Cordovan posted somewhere that they were going to do something, but no decision had been made yet.

[Chacka_DDO]

And I would be extremely, EXTREMELY, leery of any kind of mass, wholesale change. And generally speaking, so are the devs, because every time there's a change of this nature (when they changed augment slots, for instance) they haven't gone on a worldswide spree, but instead simply put a recipe in the Stone of Change to switch the item over.

You inaccurate here, there where already several retroactive and forced changes in the past.
After the augmentation change, every item with the old augmentation slot was in fact changed to an item with another new augment slot. This new augment slot with the option to change into an item with a new one or to leave it as it is (with the old augmentation).
If you read the colorless augment slot you may notice, the text was most likely different before the change.




Another example is the Ring of Spell Storing was nerfed to Exclusive for everyone.
And the epic Sword of Shadows was nerfed from x4 to x3 if I recall correctly.
There more examples but this is just what I remember right now.

But I think its gone already to far and I just try to bring it to an end here. So i remind you on my initial question:

For the essence conversion, I really wonder, you are not able to automatically convert old into new?

I don't ask for the impossibility to do it, this is a whole different question.
Your initial reaction tells they can do it but they don't want. But your argumentation implies it is impossible or almost impossible to do it without overflowing inventories exploding bags etc..
And the argument it is to much development time is in fact like no argument if you think closer. What is to much? Do you have any insight in the real development process? I do not and therefore it is possible they just have to change a parameter and its done in 10 minutes or its a lot more effort and really not worth it. But as customer, this is not my cup of tea.

I think I exaggerated with my argumentation witch was plain wrong.
But my opinion is anyhow, I think it is possible to do this conversion automatically.
And it is worth some extra effort (and again, I don't want anyone to do irrational things.)
And the bag change I suggested is maybe a needed move. Because you can only store less than one twelfth of the essences in your Ingredients bag after the Update.
And this fact remains even if your not forced to convert all essences after the Update.
Not to mention, it is even possible they can improve the stack size of this essences to 100 million, and all essences a player can have need only one or two inventory slots.
There more solutions possible then just my little one.
I think its more a political then a development effort question.

[Krumm]

What about trinkets?

Since there is no random loot for trinkets...

Will we be able to Cannith craft on trinkets?
If we can, what effects will we be able to put on trinkets?

[NoWorries]

I read that as effects will not be designated as being prefix, suffix or extra, but will be slotable as long as the item is of the correct type and has any open slot available.

No. A shard won't be defined as prefix/suffix/extra. However each slot of gear has very specific effects which can go in prefix/suffix/extra. You can't just slot the shards wherever you want.

[slarden]

What about trinkets?

Since there is no random loot for trinkets...

Will we be able to Cannith craft on trinkets?
If we can, what effects will we be able to put on trinkets?

you can get craftable trinkets from festivals, rare random drops, or ddo store

[JOTMON]

No. A shard won't be defined as prefix/suffix/extra. However each slot of gear has very specific effects which can go in prefix/suffix/extra. You can't just slot the shards wherever you want.

but will we be able to tell where it goes by looking at it or are we relegated to third party lists and guesswork.

[ice584]

... each slot of gear has very specific effects which can go in prefix/suffix/extra. You can't just slot the shards wherever you want.

Can we please get this information put in-game somehow? Put it in the shard's description, make it a field we can search on in the barter window, or SOMETHING. Determining which affixes can be applied to an item type has always been frustrating, IMO.

Currently, we have to rely on a third party wiki site for this information. When something doesn't work, we don't know whether the wiki is wrong/incomplete or the game is bugged. If you put the information clearly into the game we know how it's supposed to work and can address it accordingly.

You'd be making the system easier for everyone to use, have fewer people making mistakes, and will be able to identify bugs/issues more quickly. That's a win-win-win for everyone.

[slarden]

What about trinkets?

Since there is no random loot for trinkets...

Will we be able to Cannith craft on trinkets?
If we can, what effects will we be able to put on trinkets?

you can get craft able trinkets from festival rare random drops or do store

[Saekee]

What about trinkets?

Since there is no random loot for trinkets...

Will we be able to Cannith craft on trinkets?
If we can, what effects will we be able to put on trinkets?

you can get craftable trinkets from festivals, rare random drops, or ddo store

to add and clarify--Risia blue coins drop them on turn-in and you can disjunct a shard of power (from Shroud)

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

to add and clarify--Risia blue coins drop them on turn-in and you can disjunct a shard of power (from shower).

He's not asking where to get them. He's asking WHAT YOU CAN CRAFT ON THEM since there are ZERO random trinkets that drop in game. So what are the craftable effects on trinkets?

Or are trinkets no longer craftable?

(And fwiw, you can use a shroud shard of power for a craftable trinket too iirc, just to give another answer to a question that wasn't asked!)

[Krumm]

to add and clarify--Risia blue coins drop them on turn-in and you can disjunct a shard of power (from shower).

To clarify...

I was under the impression that (under the new Cannith crafting system), effects that we can enchant an item with will be limited to what can be generated on a randomly generated loot.

ie effects that can be crafted on a glove will be limited to effects that can be on a randomly generated glove.

Since there aren't any randomly generated trinket, I was wondering if we will be able to craft on a blank trinket.
And if we can, what effects/rules will apply for it.

[Krumm]

He's not asking where to get them. He's asking WHAT YOU CAN CRAFT ON THEM since there are ZERO random trinkets that drop in game. So what are the craftable effects on trinkets?

Or are trinkets no longer craftable?

(And fwiw, you can use a shroud shard of power for a craftable trinket too iirc, just to give another answer to a question that wasn't asked!)

Thanks.

Your explanation is much better than mine.