MAX INT/NECRO realistic breakdown and gear for Pale Master

[Ellihor]

I used to just look at Andoris thread for breakdown, but he has not updated it in a while and I think he quited. So I'm running a pale master and it has been very frustating because I can't get everything I need and DCs doesn't work like I'd like.

So I've been talking to pale master in my server and here on forums, and some have said they have self buffed 96 necro. Yesterday one told me he had self sustained 103 INT. I don't know how are these people getting those values and noone wants to give a breakdown so I decided to do it myself. This is a contributive thread and I hope the community helps to improve it, so if you think about something that I'm missing, please comment.

This is the breakdown for INT I have on my wizard:

INT: 20 + 7 lv + 7 tome + 2 ship + 2 yugo + 2 litany + 15 enhanced + 7 insightful + 2 exceptional + 2 store pot + 6 magister + 5 twists + 2 drow tree + 2 AM tree + 2 PM tree + 2 capstone + 4 lich + 2 completionist + 4 quality + 2 festivault = 97. I take only 5 on magister to make it even for 96.

You can get 16 item for a +1, and buy 3 INT with epic feats for a +4, making it a 101. If you can find an item 17, so you can get 102. You can also dump archamge tree and spend points on harper instead (haper offers 4 INT, while archmage only 2), getting +2 for a maximum of 104, but that just doesn't make any sense. You could also buy 4 INT with epic feats, getting +1 for a 105, but that also doesn't make sense because you will have to give up Ebolden.

Necro: 10 + 9 heighten + 1 past life + 2 feat spell focus + 43 INT + 2 embolden + 4 shadowfell (scion) + 1 AM tree + 1 PM tree + 1 Lich + 6 enhancement item (goggles) + 4 insightful item (goggles) + 1 quality item (doj gloves) + 2 sacred (diadem) + 1 profane (shadowscale) + 3 magister + 2 augment + 1 guild = 94

What I'm missing: +1 from epic spell focus = 95 + 1 from 7 item = 96 + 1 from quality 2 item = 97 + 1 if skip ruin/gruin for 2 extra int = 98 + 1 if find INT 16 item = 99

But that is not realistic because we have to worry about other stuff, and need a lot of random loot items that are like winning a lottery.

Here is the gear setup I'm using:

Deific Diadem - Epic Litany - gs hp cloak - L. Fasty Mummy Wrappings - const 15 of sheltering 39 ring - Gauntlets of Arcane Soldier - L. boots of the devil commander - Epic Band Immaterial - realistic 12 bracers of dodge 14 with parrying 7 (yeah a lucky one) - shadowscale robe - ranimating 6 goggles of necromancy 4 - gs int/int/int kama - tf orb nullification/spellpen (didn't bother making a tier 3 that would be probably eternal chilling)

I just can't make any change on the gear without breaking it, unless if I find some nice combos. What are you PMs using?

Edit: Also going to post my enhancements here because some people asked me what I was using, and I'm also curious what you PMs out there are doing

[Wipey]

I have 92 on my gimpy 4th lifer with +5 tome. No ruins, store pot, yugo and diadem on.
93 completionist
94 + 7 tome
95 if I toss some twisted spell pen
96 in highly unlikely scenario with + 16 random item and extra int twisted ?

Even then, you'd much better be farting discos and holds in elite Shroud. Your blitzers with sense weakness kill held / pwsed trash fast anyway. Fort saves are just too stupid to bother.
At least wiz has holds, fvs can't do **** against bagazillion fort save mobs lol. GG.

[Enoach]

Keep this in mind...

You will need to balance Spell Penetration vs DCs at times. I say this because I've noticed many of my failures at high levels is a failure to bypass Spell Resistance.

But I agree that Fortitude Saves which should be strongest on melee/cleric mobs seems to have bleed that strength over to all mob types.

[slarden]

I've seen +17 items for other stats so I am sure int is possible.

Your list looks solid to me- while they are technically +2 store pots they are obtainable with remnants so they are definitely in play for everyone now and no longer exclusively a store item.

Even 5 twists for int seems out of balance to me although I have 2 int and echoes of the arcane ancestors so I am getting +3 int from my 5 slots.

[Ellihor]

Keep this in mind...

You will need to balance Spell Penetration vs DCs at times. I say this because I've noticed many of my failures at high levels is a failure to bypass Spell Resistance.

But I agree that Fortitude Saves which should be strongest on melee/cleric mobs seems to have bleed that strength over to all mob types.

I'm running arround with 59 and I have yet to see a blue shield in LE Shroud. I buy only 1 point of spellpen in magister and also only 1 point from sunelf. I'm even thinking about dropping epic spellpen for epic sf necro or buy another INT. For TS I just twist from EA.

[Ellihor]

I've seen +17 items for other stats so I am sure int is possible.

Your list looks solid to me- while they are technically +2 store pots they are obtainable with remnants so they are definitely in play for everyone now and no longer exclusively a store item.

Even 5 twists for int seems out of balance to me although I have 2 int and echoes of the arcane ancestors so I am getting +3 int from my 5 slots.

Actually what I was looking for when I started this thread is that someone pointed out to me how to get sustainable 103 INT because the guy on live said that he had that to me but I can't figure out how to get it...

[Steve_Howe]

90-94 Seems fairly easy to do. 96-98 also doable with Completionist and Yugo pots.

103 seems just a wee bit high.

[slarden]

Actually what I was looking for when I started this thread is that someone pointed out to me how to get sustainable 103 INT because the guy on live said that he had that to me but I can't figure out how to get it...

INT: 20 + 7 lv + 7 tome + 2 ship + 2 yugo + 2 litany + 17 item + 7 insightful + 2 exceptional + 2 remnant turn in potion + 6 magister + 5 twists + 2 drow tree + 4 Harper tree + 2 PM tree + 2 capstone + 4 lich + 2 completionist + 4 quality + 2 festivault +4 Great Int (levels 21,24,27,30) = 105.

I am not sure why anyone would walk around with a sustainable 103 int - that's just crazy. Drop it down to 102 and add in something useful.

[Ellihor]

INT: 20 + 7 lv + 7 tome + 2 ship + 2 yugo + 2 litany + 17 item + 7 insightful + 2 exceptional + 2 remnant turn in potion + 6 magister + 5 twists + 2 drow tree + 4 Harper tree + 2 PM tree + 2 capstone + 4 lich + 2 completionist + 4 quality + 2 festivault +4 Great Int (levels 21,24,27,30) = 105.

I am not sure why anyone would walk around with a sustainable 103 int - that's just crazy. Drop it down to 102 and add in something useful.

Yes that's exacly the breakdown I did on the OP, but I was excepting those numbers without 4x greater int, 17 item and points in harper. BTW dude at live told me he was using item 15, so I think he's probably lying about his int.

[slarden]

Yes that's exacly the breakdown I did on the OP, but I was excepting those numbers without 4x greater int, 17 item and points in harper. BTW dude at live told me he was using item 15, so I think he's probably lying about his int.

103 is possible, but it doesn't seem possible to build a optimal character with a sustainable 103 int and even if you could why would you choose 103 instead of 102 since that extra 1 does nothing for you. Yeah my BS meter would probably be detecting that too lol.

I don't usually call people on their obvious BS unless they are also being abusive. There is one lady that repeated several times in different raids that her assassin had a 130 sustainable assassin and this was around U26 or U27. I just acted impressed that her assassin had such an unbelievably high assassinate. People that aren't real good with the math but BS on the numbers are funny. Please don't discourage them - I like hearing the boasting especially when unrealistic #s are involved.

[goldgolem]

I run 88 int and 88 necro

Can you breakdown how you get your spell that high? I had to give up a lot of int to get my spell pen to your level

[Ellihor]

I run 88 int and 88 necro

Can you breakdown how you get your spell that high? I had to give up a lot of int to get my spell pen to your level

20 base +9 Past Lives + 8 Feats + 5 ED levels + 1 Arcanum +3 Archmage + 7 Item + 2 Spell Augmentation +1 Guild + 1 Piercing Spellcraft + 2 Echo's of Magister = 59. I'm thinking about dropping the epic spellpen feat for Arcane Insight for +6 DC clickie 30 secs every 3 min, becausee at the end of the day, there are those specific moments where you want extra DC. I think it's better to have a 30 secs 6 DC unviversal clickie every 3 min than always having 1 more DC permanently.

[Tlorrd]

Actually what I was looking for when I started this thread is that someone pointed out to me how to get sustainable 103 INT because the guy on live said that he had that to me but I can't figure out how to get it...

Now I can't give your sustainable right off the bat, but what I can tell you is that if you drop a few INT bonuses from twists, you can twist T4 Draconic Acid Spell Augmentation which reduces Fort saves by 5 with a 15% chance and Magister tier 3 necro augmentation for an additional -5 to fort saves, again 15% on necro spells ... that there is -10 to fort save (again based of a percentage chance) but TBH, I've tried that combo and it procs quite a bit with the right spells active (especially AOE spells). -10 fort save is equivalent to +20 INT. Also warlock enhancement gives -4 fort saves when using EB, melee, or ranged attacks ... again Cone shape to get AOE to mobs. Granted all of this takes some time vs standing DC of > 100, but -14 fort save would change a mob w/ 100 fort to 86 fort which makes your 100 DC have a 70% chance to be successful (assuming those #s as a hypothetical). (I think my math is ok )

It gets better with Evocation augmentation from DI T4 Electric aug and Magister T3 Evo/Conj aug. Both are -10 reflex saves (again 15% chance), but an artificer with all those electric SLAs that most are AOE with routinely get -20 reflex saves which would = +40 ability stat to whichever ability they uses for their spell DCs.

Will saves again are similiar for Enchantment (or Illusion) specced. You need T3 Magister augmentation for -10 Will saves and then something like Hypnotism or Crushing Dispair, or Mindfog for an additional -3 to -5 to -10 Will saves, respectively. Again giving up to -25 Will save (Enchant augmentation, Crushing Despair Weaken Will, and Mindfog) ... thus getting equivalent to +50 ability stat. Again this is predicated on some chance with Enchantment augmentation, but done in the right order, you can increase the chances dramatically of all of these hitting.

Now for LH quests, you'll breeze through your DCs with no problem and for LE quests, you'll have a significantly higher success chance than with trying to get a single stat so high with sacrifice of everything else. Also as someone else above mentioned, spell penetration needs to be accounted for. Magister with Nullmagic strike and guard give -4 spell pen and then with some twists or whatnot and gear and past lives, I would think this would be doable.

Just my 2 cents. Good luck with your quest for necro DC glory.

Edit: I forgot about Solid fog for more reduction of reflex saves.

Edit 2: I also forgot about things like Symbol of Pain which is only 15 spell points, necro spell and -4 saves ... again need some spells to reduce saves, but if you solo or small group things, then it can work. Large raid groups will not work as well as time needed to debuff mobs is too long.

[Tlorrd]

Wipey,

why delete your post ... its valid for some points and I don't necessarily disagree. But like shiradi procs and nerve venom (which is 7% chance) and procs quite a bit with succession spells or multi-proc spells ... 15% chance on a chain of cheap spells procs quite a bit ...

For example (and taking the least potent class) ... Maybe 17/3 Cleric/Wiz ... Bane (AOE enchantment spell, no SR, 4sp), ), Hypnotism SLA (AOE enchantment spell, and weaken will, no ASF since SLA), Bane again since its a 2 sec cooldown, Prayer (if you really want to, its also enchantment, no SR) ... and then use Holy Smite, and Order's Wrath for no SR, will save damage for CC and damage, and use Divine Wrath for Will save damage ... you've probably stacked -14 to will saves already.

Yes this is all "paper theories" but it works depending on how you make your build ... 16/2/2 Cleric/Wiz/FVS and you get double maximize spell point reduction, n SLA, and Just Rewards.

Edit: If you went majority wiz or warlock levels, then there are more debuffs available. Unfortunately (I guess) in today's game, DC casting needs debuffs to actually be feasible.

[Ellihor]

stuff

Actually I use the magister enhancement that does -5 save 15%. But I don't think the other options are worth it. The problem is that they're not consistent, and I can't play excepting a 15% proc to make things work. I only use the magister enhancement because it's free since I am in magister anyways. If I take so much time and spell points to double debuff mobs and excepting the procs work, better just drain and curse them. I have no problem with 80 DC against will, so that is pointless for those spells. When I want some extra ench DC a crushing despair is a +3 (1 deific + 2 debuff) and that's enough to hold anything except archers in shroud part 1 but those have low fortitude so I don't care.

If you went majority wiz or warlock levels, then there are more debuffs available. Unfortunately (I guess) in today's game, DC casting needs debuffs to actually be feasible.

It's not as bad as you think. See this was last test I did on my pm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWkFx15hY2A. For me it is ok, specially if you are doing speed runs a character that covers the trash in part 1 makes a significant difference that I can tell when we do guild runs and I'm on my pm and when there isn't any pms.

Edit: Notice that in this video the majority of monsters are warchiefs, in real shroud run I don't bother instakilling those (and enchant works on them 95%), so things are better than it looks like there.

[goldgolem]

20 base +9 Past Lives + 8 Feats + 5 ED levels + 1 Arcanum +3 Archmage + 7 Item + 2 Spell Augmentation +1 Guild + 1 Piercing Spellcraft + 2 Echo's of Magister = 59. I'm thinking about dropping the epic spellpen feat for Arcane Insight for +6 DC clickie 30 secs every 3 min, becausee at the end of the day, there are those specific moments where you want extra DC. I think it's better to have a 30 secs 6 DC unviversal clickie every 3 min than always having 1 more DC permanently.

I have rejigged to 92 int, 90 necro but only 52 spell pen

I can get 3 spell pen going sun elf for arcanum, I can get 2 more by upping my goggles from +5 to +7, so I see how I can get to 57

what are your 8 from feats? Spell pen and greater spell pen only give 4. If you take epic spell pen +4 that means you miss one of the epic levels for INT

You spend more in archmage which give you +3 spell pen, but that means you lose 2 int from not going Harper.

You are only taking 1 from arcanum instead of 3 and 1 from piercing spellcraft instead of 3, so you lose a potential 4 spell pen

Which item gives you the +2 spell augmentation? Is that the Gauntlets of the arcane soldier giving +2 spell pen when the spell dc goes up by 2?

[Ellihor]

I have rejigged to 92 int, 90 necro but only 52 spell pen

I can get 3 spell pen going sun elf for arcanum, I can get 2 more by upping my goggles from +5 to +7, so I see how I can get to 57

what are your 8 from feats? Spell pen and greater spell pen only give 4. If you take epic spell pen +4 that means you miss one of the epic levels for INT

You spend more in archmage which give you +3 spell pen, but that means you lose 2 int from not going Harper.

You are only taking 1 from arcanum instead of 3 and 1 from piercing spellcraft instead of 3, so you lose a potential 4 spell pen

Which item gives you the +2 spell augmentation? Is that the Gauntlets of the arcane soldier giving +2 spell pen when the spell dc goes up by 2?

-I don't have any epic INT feats: as I said I have the epic spellpen feat but I'm thinking about changing it to the DC clickie.

-I don't have any points in harper.

-Yes, I do. I already have 59 and that's no fail in Shroud. For TS I think 63 is no fail. I don't care about LE TS, it is basically a xp run now where like 3-4 lv 30 chars do the quest and the rest pike underlv. At least that's how it works in my guild runs. When I run TS I just twist extra spellpen, loose 1 DC, who cares... as a PM you still rule that place.

-Yes, it is the gloves, I gave the gear I'm using on the OP