Why Power surg Divine Might and Know the angles need a nerf

[duntduntduuun]

Divine Might and Know the Angles do NOT cancel each other out as they are described to, and both of them benefit from Power surg

Power surg is +4 DC and DMG or +6 if you THF or SWF
Divine Might from around 38 charis is +7 DC and DMG or +10 if THF or SWF
Know the Angels from 38 int is +7 DC and damage 38 is an easy number to get to, these can be much higher
But then power surge makes both of those 8 higher which results in 2 more DC and DMG from each.
+4 +7 +7 +2 +2


+22 damage and tactical DC's for 11ap

[Vanhooger]

I agree, but you will see now lot of people saying "that's why we can't have nice thing" or something like that.

[Coyopa]

Divine Might and KTA aren't supposed to stack, as far as I know. So, seems like a case where the developers need to fix a bug. Now, whether either of those are supposed to stack with Power Surge is another matter and I don't know anything about that.

[Jetrule]

I was laboring under the impression that taking one enhancement disqualifiesd you for the other for some reason. I seem to recall trying to take them both some time ago and not being able to. Am I misremembering or did it change? Its kind of tough slotting great gear for 4 abilities ( I would still want good constitution boosts) and all the other stuff you want but that is a pretty good payoff and a good reason to multi class with fighter if it works.

[JOTMON]

This is why we cant have nice things..

Having everything be the same and cancel everything else is detrimental to the advancement system..
Why bother hunting ideal gear to compliment enhancements if you are not going to reward those who invest into building their toons to be better.
A fighter who invests into Int to take advantage of know the angles wont bother if it is nerfed and building a non optimal stat does nothing for him..
Building Epic/Iconic/Heroic past lives, Completionist, .. these are all just a means to an end to take advantage of all the little bonuses adding up..
We do bizarre things and will try obscure combinations to optimize advantages and minimize disadvantages..

If nothing stacked then there would be no point...If they are all boringly the same then there is no point .. we may as well just play first person shooter games.

[ValariusK]

Divine Might is an insight bonus to strength. That means the first up to 7 points of it are redundant with gear. It isn't what it used to be.
Power surge requires 12 fighter levels. It is nice but it is necessary compensation to make fighter builds competitive. Fighters right now are just that, competitive. Messing with power surge isn't a good idea (unless you do a quality of life change to reduce the number of charges of it but make them last longer).

[unbongwah]

Divine Might and KTA aren't supposed to stack, as far as I know.

Div Might and Know the Angles are supposed to be anti-requisites - taking one should lock out the other - but last time I checked you could still take both and they stack. Caveat: it's been a long time since I checked; for all I know the OP is complaining about a bug which has already been fixed.

In any case, apart from being a known bug, one has to weigh the pros of adding Div Might vs the cons of splashing a pure ftr. The buff to One Cut makes ftr 18 a lot stronger than it was before; add the Kensei capstone (+15% doublestrike etc.) and pure Kensei is (finally!) pretty strong.

[JOTMON]

Div Might and Know the Angles are supposed to be anti-requisites - taking one should lock out the other - but last time I checked you could still take both and they stack. Caveat: it's been a long time since I checked; for all I know the OP is complaining about a bug which has already been fixed.

In any case, apart from being a known bug, one has to weigh the pros of adding Div Might vs the cons of splashing a pure ftr. The buff to One Cut makes ftr 18 a lot stronger than it was before; add the Kensei capstone (+15% doublestrike etc.) and pure Kensei is (finally!) pretty strong.

pft..
One Cut was a poor increase as far as I am concerned.. a 15 second clickie with a 1 minute cooldown..
its a level 18 Fighter core to get....
One Cut: Activate: Your currently equipped primary weapon gains x1 Critical Damage Multiplier for 15 secs.(Cooldown: 1 minute) Passive: +20 Melee Power and Ranged Power.
..Other classes get their multipliers added permanently..
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...nerfed-REALLY-!


Level 20 Fighter Capstone..
doublestrike/doubleshot .. meh.. doesn't stack with gear.. so does it really matter...
and have to give up /2 monk for this poor capstone which is detrimental to Kensai as a whole.. Kensai requires centering and Grandmaster is inferior as a Epic Destiny for fighters.. Twist all the low hanging fruit and move on.
They screwed Fighters by not offering them a way to be centered without monk/Grandmaster and not to be able to be centered with some types of armor..


as far as I am concerned this version of Kensai doesn't belong in the fighter enhancement tree, they really just move this into the Monk enhancments after removing the 8 fighter requirement for Greater Weapon Focus for a T4 enhancement (that only requires character level 4)..

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

Divine Might is an insight bonus to strength. That means the first up to 7 points of it are redundant with gear. It isn't what it used to be.
Power surge requires 12 fighter levels. It is nice but it is necessary compensation to make fighter builds competitive. Fighters right now are just that, competitive. Messing with power surge isn't a good idea (unless you do a quality of life change to reduce the number of charges of it but make them last longer).

Well, I mean they could always change it so that you have to drink a potion before you can activate a 30 second power surge.........................

[ValariusK]

pft..
One Cut was a poor increase as far as I am concerned.. a 15 second clickie with a 1 minute cooldown..
its a level 18 Fighter core to get....
One Cut: Activate: Your currently equipped primary weapon gains x1 Critical Damage Multiplier for 15 secs.(Cooldown: 1 minute) Passive: +20 Melee Power and Ranged Power.
..Other classes get their multipliers added permanently..
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...nerfed-REALLY-!


Level 20 Fighter Capstone..
doublestrike/doubleshot .. meh.. doesn't stack with gear.. so does it really matter...
and have to give up /2 monk for this poor capstone which is detrimental to Kensai as a whole.. Kensai requires centering and Grandmaster is inferior as a Epic Destiny for fighters.. Twist all the low hanging fruit and move on.
They screwed Fighters by not offering them a way to be centered without monk/Grandmaster and not to be able to be centered with some types of armor..


as far as I am concerned this version of Kensai doesn't belong in the fighter enhancement tree, they really just move this into the Monk enhancments after removing the 8 fighter requirement for Greater Weapon Focus for a T4 enhancement (that only requires character level 4)..

You do know that the +20 MP/RP is the real bonus in the 18 fighter core right? Also, Fighters get their +1 crit multiplier in their level 6 core. So they have +1 crit multiple ALL the time, and +2 on demand up to 15 seconds out of every minute. Doublestrike and doubleshot most certainly DO stack with gear, and fighters can boost their PRR/MRR in heavy armor substantially (+12 for one feat, +21 with two if they want to spend it).

[Enoach]

Divine Might and Know the Angles stacking is news to me as they are listed as anti-prereq. (Meaning you should not be able to take both at the same time)

Now on Power Surge

Power Surge
+8 Psionic bonus to all attributes for 60 seconds

I can see this stacking with either Divine Might (Ftr (12)/Cleric-FvS (1) or Ftr (12)/Pal (3)) builds. To it would also work well with Action Boost bonuses of the Racial Trees like what is found with Humans.

-------
If DM and KtA are stacking then that sounds like a bug. Together they can make a powerful combination, alone a worthwhile buff.

[unbongwah]

Level 20 Fighter Capstone..
doublestrike/doubleshot .. meh.. doesn't stack with gear.. so does it really matter...

Unless they broke it with U31 (always possible!), Kensei capstone is a competence bonus which should stack with everything inc. gear.

[JOTMON]

Unless they broke it with U31 (always possible!), Kensei capstone is a competence bonus which should stack with everything inc. gear.

Ah, my bad thought it was an enhancement bonus for some reason...

You do know that the +20 MP/RP is the real bonus in the 18 fighter core right? Also, Fighters get their +1 crit multiplier in their level 6 core. So they have +1 crit multiple ALL the time, and +2 on demand up to 15 seconds out of every minute. Doublestrike and doubleshot most certainly DO stack with gear, and fighters can boost their PRR/MRR in heavy armor substantially (+12 for one feat, +21 with two if they want to spend it).

The MP is nice, don't have an issue with that part.. its the clicky spam I am annoyed with..
lsat thing we need is more short duration clickies

[BigErkyKid]

KTA is the bane of racial trees. Pretty much outclasses the vast majority of things you could get from a racial tree.

[sithhound]

This thread smells like socks. Idk, but with a join date of last month, and his second post calling for nerfs, I think someone is just trying to get folks riled up. Don't feed the trolls people. It reduces their ability to hunt for themselves in the wild, and leads them to associate people with food sources. No good will come from it.
My apologies if I misread the situation.

[duntduntduuun]

This thread smells like socks. Idk, but with a join date of last month, and his second post calling for nerfs, I think someone is just trying to get folks riled up. Don't feed the trolls people. It reduces their ability to hunt for themselves in the wild, and leads them to associate people with food sources. No good will come from it.
My apologies if I misread the situation.

my first and only other post is in thelanis marketplace but thanks for the welcoming and well thought out reply

[the_one_dwarfforged]

there is no issue with these abilities at all, not even the bug considering the only builds capable of using it are suboptimal anyway.

Fighters right now are just that, competitive.

more than that bro

Kensai requires centering

Kensai blade centering.. you know the point of going T5 Kensai...

no. just, no.

[Connman]

This thread smells like socks...

Well when your shoes get eated by the cube I guess all you are left with is socks. XD

[Eth]

The best way to fix this would be to leave it as it is, that you can take both DM and KTA, but rather make them the very same bonus, so they don't stack.
This means DM becomes +Damage mod and +tactic DCs.
That would fix another problem, which is DM becoming worse in comparision to KTA everytime they increase insight stat bonuses. We are at +7 now. DM has basically no benefit before 26 charisma.

[Jeromio]

The best way to fix this would be to leave it as it is, that you can take both DM and KTA, but rather make them the very same bonus, so they don't stack.
This means DM becomes +Damage mod and +tactic DCs.
That would fix another problem, which is DM becoming worse in comparision to KTA everytime they increase insight stat bonuses. We are at +7 now. DM has basically no benefit before 40 charisma.

This!!! ^^

DM has very little benefit nowadays.