House Cannith Manufactory - more like this please!

[Enoach]

I find it interesting that one point that appears to keep coming up is that these quests take a long time.

Last night I did and completed all 3 of these quests.

I did Blown To Bits when I was Level 18 (Holding leveling). LFM up received 4 hits, one asked if they could use a hire.

Capped XP so I to a break. Friend Asked me to help out on a Reaver's Fate run so I held taking any levels as they were running max level 18.

Came back after leveling to 20, put up LFM for Power Play and Filled Just as I entered the Quest, after completion did Schemes of the Enemy

I would say all three quests took a total of 60 minutes combined.


Blown To Bits we did all but the Bombardier optional - We did blow up the crate and DDoor'd out
Power Play we did all the optional
Schemes of the Enemy we did the puzzle wheel and the floor puzzle instead of beating down the Adimantine turbines


The thing is much like any quest the more you run it the faster you get at completing it.

[bsquishwizzy]

Cannith Manufactory was a massive FAIL!

Uh, no…it wasn’t. It’s one of the few areas near 19 that my guild usually runs. In fact, I run them on virtually every life.

The quests are decent yes but the XP is average and the time to run them is very long - 30+ minutes each!.
The standard Slayer Zone isn't actually bad but isn't good either and seriously 60-70 mobs solo per instance and 7,500 Max = A lot of runs!

But the Raid Slayer Zones are ATROCIOUS!

And the Raids aren't run because they're such a pain to get a group to!

Those Raid Slayer Zones should either be:
- Made part of the Raid and lose the Slayer Counts!
OR
- have the doors removed and made part of the standard Slayer Zone with the NPC outside the entrance teleporting the whole Raid Group into the Raids!

The raid slayer areas are far from “atrocious.” They are pretty straight-forward. Nothing like, say, Subterrane. But once run, you should have the ability to just teleport right to the beginning of the raid from the entrance.

But that’ll lead to more grouping complications. You get 12 people in a raid, undoubtedly SOMEONE is doing this for their first time. So, that means one or more of the group has to help the first-timer. And then you are right back to square-one.

However, I’m good with the manufactury being all one big wilderness area.

That was just ONE PART of my post NOT ALL OF IT!

I mentioned the XP because a whole lot of people in this game care about not just XP but something called XP/Min - And Cannith Manufactory is not just bad XP/Min but ludicrously bad XP/Min!

The XP for the Quests is actually on par with other quests of similar level but not with other Quests of similar LENGTH!
Genesis Point gives twice what Schemes of the Enemy gives!
Sins of Attrition gives twice what Power Play gives!
The time to complete those quests is similar {In fact I think Sins is shorter}.

Oh, really?

And it wasn’t too long ago that people were whining about how no one runs Shavarath quests anymore because of their lousy XP.

Of the flagging Shavarath quests, only Sins is the one that can be solo-ed by someone fairly inexperienced. I think it was Genesis that you almost need 2 players to run. New Invasion’s end fight is almost Cleric / FvS – exclusive. Plus, between the random maze, and the need for a hireling for the other, they are pretty extensive quests to run.

So I’m calling BS on your numbers.

Plus, the gear in those quests is pretty desirable. The Cannith Boots of Propulsion are usable all the way to 30.

The biggest problem with the House C quests is that there is really no point in flagging for the raids. The mechanic on the raids usually involves a lot of deaths, there is often a HUGE amount of lag-deaths (and this was a while ago when lag was an annoyance), and Master Artificer is pretty tricky with new players. Plus, there is little-to-no payoff when it comes to the alchemical crafted stuff. I’ve gotta run a lot of raids, typically on elite, before I’m close to crafting that gear. What’s the point to that? Maybe if cap was still 20 it’d be worth it, but now there is literally no point.

I think if they upped the ability to make legendary gear out of the Cannith stuff, you’d get people more interested in the raids. Just my opinion.

[dunklezhan]

Actually....
Thinking about it: Schemes is a terrible quest too - Beating on a 100 DR/- Rock for 15 minutes then turning round and beating on another 100 DR/- Rock for another 15 minutes

Its your choice to do it that way. There is another way. The beat down is to give people who hate puzzles an alternative. Its dull. Its supposed to be dull. Do the puzzle instead, that'll keep you on your toes.

[Enoach]

...The problem is that we're talking about exactly 3 Quests here and using them to call the entire pack good...Which it is anything but!

...
As for the Raids - MA is perhaps the most Godawful Raid in the Game!
LoB could be decent but it's just too much of a pain to get to! And the Loot isn't worth it! {Having run both of these Raids in the past I'd literally only run either of these two Raids again if I needed the Favour!}.


And I'm sorry but you can't just ignore the XP issues - I'm anything but an XP/Min guy and even I can see these are terrible for XP! {You don't run these quests for XP, You run them for Favour/Flag and that's it!}.




Actually....
Thinking about it: Schemes is a terrible quest too - Beating on a 100 DR/- Rock for 15 minutes then turning round and beating on another 100 DR/- Rock for another 15 minutes followed by running round and round in a bloody great circle while jumping down into the centre then immediately climbing back up again because the boss {if you can call it a boss} keeps teleporting away isn't my idea of fun!

I can't believe I've been calling Schemes a Decent Quest! {I must have blocked it from my memory for a while there!}.

Personally, I think the whole pack it good. The gear is hard to get, but without what happened to Thunderholm the same could be said for that one as well. The Gears ML15/16/18/20 based on Tier is also comparable if not better. Additionally, it has handwraps something Greensteel does not as well as Crystal for material - Currently only found on Named items.

The XP is not terrible, I needed 60K to Cap to 20 and running Blown To Bits gave me more than enough to cap for 20 minutes. So sure not best XP/Min but not a poor XP quest

Both Raids have an Arena style fight. MA does require coordination but even that can be done. LoB is a small arena surrounded by Goo, personally I think too many think it is a boss fight on that one, when in actuality it is simply a take down the pillars for completion. Some groups kite the puppies, but they can be knocked out as they only respawn at certain points - so groups just gauge if they can kite or if it would be better to just beat them down 3 times.

As for Schemes of the Enemy. The beating down of the 100/DR twice is optional. Even solo with a hireling you could opt to do the floor puzzle to bring down the barrier and that takes far less time. As for the end fight the porting canon there are ways to stop it temporarily and also someone with rogue skills has another option of stopping it temporarily so that melee can get longer beat down time. If group has low DPS and is full, having someone constantly running the upper walkway killing off the watchers can keep that damage in check.

[FranOhmsford]

Oh, really?

And it wasn’t too long ago that people were whining about how no one runs Shavarath quests anymore because of their lousy XP.

Of the flagging Shavarath quests, only Sins is the one that can be solo-ed by someone fairly inexperienced. I think it was Genesis that you almost need 2 players to run. New Invasion’s end fight is almost Cleric / FvS – exclusive. Plus, between the random maze, and the need for a hireling for the other, they are pretty extensive quests to run.

I never said anything about Soloing!

That's one thing that the Manufactory Quests do have on Shav - All three are perfectly soloable!

But I'm no fan of Shav either!

The point I was making was simply that the Quests in the two packs are of similar length, Both Packs are the same Lvl which helps with the comparison but Shav Quests give like double the XP!

And it's not like Schemes, Power Play and Blown to Bits are easy either - Soloable yes but not easy!



And to the point about Shav XP - Shav has good xp! G-Point gives similar XP to Coal which is considered Great XP! - The problem is simply that it cannot compete with Epics!

I still think Shav, The Manufactory and Reaver's Refuge especially should all be made Min Lvl 20 and count as Epic for XP and BB purposes!

Plus, the gear in those quests is pretty desirable. The Cannith Boots of Propulsion are usable all the way to 30.

Lol - One run of Elite Schemes and you'll have more Boots than you know what to do with! {They drop like Candy in the Multiple End Chests}. Or alternatively just farm the opt near the start till you get them!

Cannith Manufactory Loot is easy to get and not a reason to keep running the Quests!

The biggest problem with the House C quests is that there is really no point in flagging for the raids. The mechanic on the raids usually involves a lot of deaths, there is often a HUGE amount of lag-deaths (and this was a while ago when lag was an annoyance), and Master Artificer is pretty tricky with new players. Plus, there is little-to-no payoff when it comes to the alchemical crafted stuff. I’ve gotta run a lot of raids, typically on elite, before I’m close to crafting that gear. What’s the point to that? Maybe if cap was still 20 it’d be worth it, but now there is literally no point.

I agree with this - I never saw the point to Alchemical Gear even before MotU came out and I certainly don't now!

I think if they upped the ability to make legendary gear out of the Cannith stuff, you’d get people more interested in the raids. Just my opinion.

What? Why?

How's it going to compete with Thunderforged and LGS?

Cannith Raids are Lvl 20 Heroic, 25 Epic - The Gear should be 17 Heroic and 22 Epic and Top of the Range for those Levels {Compete with CitW in Epics}.

[bsquishwizzy]

What? Why?

How's it going to compete with Thunderforged and LGS?

Cannith Raids are Lvl 20 Heroic, 25 Epic - The Gear should be 17 Heroic and 22 Epic and Top of the Range for those Levels {Compete with CitW in Epics}.

What? Why?

Real simple. You can farm for a weapon / item that gets you to, say, 23 in epics. Then you can take that weapons (or maybe another weapon you’ve farmed from the raids) and make it Legendary. If you allow for the scaling of heroic gear into Legendary, people will run the heroic quests to farm the basic gear.

People crying about the loss of the endgame were lamenting the Seal/Scroll/Shard farming mechanic being antiquated because it gave them a) a reason to run the heroic quest (for the base gear) and b) a reason to run the epic quests at cap (for the upgrades). It gave them a purpose for heroic and epic runs.

All I’m saying is basically do the same thing here with the exception that you have to build the Cannith weapon from heroic raids on MA and LoB first.

[Propane]

Agree with the OP- the area is set up well - quest and story flows well - craftable loot is not perfect - a solid B+.

The quests are different and have different methods to complete them.

With alts on the ETR train - the Min Lv 20 shields and weapons are hard to beat. (crafting items)

MA is set up well having every 5th raid reward being a blank.
LoB is currently every 10th raid reward. Changing that to every 5th alone would help reduce the grind enough for some folks to run more.

[Marshal_Lannes]

The XP is not terrible, I needed 60K to Cap to 20 and running Blown To Bits gave me more than enough to cap for 20 minutes. So sure not best XP/Min but not a poor XP quest
.

Are you sure your time of an hour is accurate? Are you factoring in running out to the quests? You say you did all 3 quests in an hour, stopping to do Reavers in between which means you must have gone into the Explorer zone twice. So if you did Blown to Bits in 20 mins - it had to take you at least 5-10 to get there. You did Power Play and Schemes of the Enemy in 10 mins each plus running to them? I highly doubt your time is accurate. It is far more accurate to say this - each quest takes about a half hour on elite BB, plus 30 minutes of getting into the zone and going to all of them. 2 hours is pretty realistic to do all the quests and often it will take groups 45 minutes to do Power Play and Schemes of the Enemy if they aren't familiar with them (which most groups will not be). I am not saying you can't do the puzzle in Schemes, but I have literally never been in a group that knew how to do the puzzle. Most groups can complete eVON3 in the time it takes to beat down the reactors in Schemes.

[dunklezhan]

Are you sure your time of an hour is accurate? Are you factoring in running out to the quests? You say you did all 3 quests in an hour, stopping to do Reavers in between which means you must have gone into the Explorer zone twice. So if you did Blown to Bits in 20 mins - it had to take you at least 5-10 to get there. You did Power Play and Schemes of the Enemy in 10 mins each plus running to them? I highly doubt your time is accurate. It is far more accurate to say this - each quest takes about a half hour on elite BB, plus 30 minutes of getting into the zone and going to all of them. 2 hours is pretty realistic to do all the quests and often it will take groups 45 minutes to do Power Play and Schemes of the Enemy if they aren't familiar with them (which most groups will not be). I am not saying you can't do the puzzle in Schemes, but I have literally never been in a group that knew how to do the puzzle. Most groups can complete eVON3 in the time it takes to beat down the reactors in Schemes.

In terms of time, 2 of us hit all three quests on HE yesterday without leaving the explorer area, so just running across it to get to each quest, also including one full sweep and pick up of all the explorers. We did this with a L20 & 21 character - cant' speak for the other guy but although mine was the L21 they are still levelling their first destiny (L3 in Magister after finishing Cannith). My character also is still wearing L10-14 gear for the most part. Not particularly powerful compared to a great many players, is what I'm saying. To do that took the pair of us approx 90 mins.

3 of us, all L21 (different character for me) but 2 of us having never done the quests before hit the same 3 quests in the same way on Sunday and it took us about 2.5 hours.

So I think in a full group of experienced players, maybe with L21 characters running maxed destinies, not bothering with optionals etc., I think it could be done in less than an hour, for sure. Not much less, mind you.

[FranOhmsford]

Are you sure your time of an hour is accurate? Are you factoring in running out to the quests? You say you did all 3 quests in an hour, stopping to do Reavers in between which means you must have gone into the Explorer zone twice. So if you did Blown to Bits in 20 mins - it had to take you at least 5-10 to get there. You did Power Play and Schemes of the Enemy in 10 mins each plus running to them? I highly doubt your time is accurate. It is far more accurate to say this - each quest takes about a half hour on elite BB, plus 30 minutes of getting into the zone and going to all of them. 2 hours is pretty realistic to do all the quests and often it will take groups 45 minutes to do Power Play and Schemes of the Enemy if they aren't familiar with them (which most groups will not be). I am not saying you can't do the puzzle in Schemes, but I have literally never been in a group that knew how to do the puzzle. Most groups can complete eVON3 in the time it takes to beat down the reactors in Schemes.

My estimate of an hour for all three quests was predicated specifically on an "Average" Group AND factored in time to go from Power Play to Blown to Schemes.

I'd say an average Group could do Blown to Bits in 15 minutes.
I'd say an average Group would take 20 minutes each on Schemes and Power Play and I added in another 5 minutes for running between the quests.

More likely that Group would take between 70 and 90 minutes to do all three but on these forums you have to estimate on the low side to placate the stronger players.



I didn't count time to get that Group together and ready {shipbuffed and at the entrance to Power Play} in the first place.

[Paleus]

Just going to throw the last two copper at this thread because I think both these quests, and now this thread, are underlining a longstanding problem with DDO.

The OP starts by extolling the design of several quests. Focusing on things like narrative quality with statements about it being "atmospheric", being the first to introduce "narrated scroll explorer mechanic", how "LoB is a menacing presence", and how they "alternate silliness and seriousness"

They then point out that there is variety in these quests, "an escort quest that works, with a kick ass end fight", "ingeniously dangerous trap sections"
"hidden stuff everywhere", "option to skip two dangerous encounters safely..", and of course the option to beat down DR/100 barriers if you can't solve puzzles.

They also focus on how encounters are setup to provide variety of danger,"fights are pretty tough thanks to the mix of mobs and the spells that are getting laid down" and variety of strategy, "right mix of melee and ranged will win the day far better and faster than just one or the other."

And, to top it off, acknowledge that it is missing that all too common design feature we now have,"And barely a 'kill all to proceed' mechanic in sight"

All of these elements are discussed when talking about how they create good quests. But what did this thread turn into instead? What's the XP/Min bro? If that's not good, these aren't good quests....uh what? Seriously, last comment because if people can't grasp the simple difference between designing a good quest at the story, paths to solutions, and challenge level versus solely focusing on how it fits into the larger reward structure of the game, then there is no point in discussing what makes a good quest. You're just focusing on what makes a good hamster wheel.

If the only problem with these quest could be fixed with simple adjustments to how they fit into the larger game's reward mechanics (and the mentioned add of teleporters to the raids) then that shouldn't need to take up so much of the conversation focus it. We should have all just said, yeah, for these quests, up their XP, maybe move their level, and add teleports. Then build more quests that have these same design mechanics, just, you know, don't give the new one's lousy XP so that they can fit into people's dailies or TRs if that's all they care about.

[erethizon]

So your response to a post saying the quests have good mechanics, is that they are a massive fail because their xp wasn't properly set?
I think you're missing the point of the original post.

Actually, his post should be framed and sent to the developers. The Cannith Manufactory is an awesome pack that is barely used because of what he mentioned in his post. If those changes were made it might not be like pulling teeth to get a group to run it one time each life. And the raids I have done only once ever because they are so painfully hard to form. Those improvements need to be made and the sooner the better.

[FranOhmsford]

Just going to throw the last two copper at this thread because I think both these quests, and now this thread, are underlining a longstanding problem with DDO.

The OP starts by extolling the design of several quests. Focusing on things like narrative quality with statements about it being "atmospheric", being the first to introduce "narrated scroll explorer mechanic", how "LoB is a menacing presence", and how they "alternate silliness and seriousness"

They then point out that there is variety in these quests, "an escort quest that works, with a kick ass end fight", "ingeniously dangerous trap sections"
"hidden stuff everywhere", "option to skip two dangerous encounters safely..", and of course the option to beat down DR/100 barriers if you can't solve puzzles.

They also focus on how encounters are setup to provide variety of danger,"fights are pretty tough thanks to the mix of mobs and the spells that are getting laid down" and variety of strategy, "right mix of melee and ranged will win the day far better and faster than just one or the other."

And, to top it off, acknowledge that it is missing that all too common design feature we now have,"And barely a 'kill all to proceed' mechanic in sight"

All of these elements are discussed when talking about how they create good quests. But what did this thread turn into instead? What's the XP/Min bro? If that's not good, these aren't good quests....uh what? Seriously, last comment because if people can't grasp the simple difference between designing a good quest at the story, paths to solutions, and challenge level versus solely focusing on how it fits into the larger reward structure of the game, then there is no point in discussing what makes a good quest. You're just focusing on what makes a good hamster wheel.

If the only problem with these quest could be fixed with simple adjustments to how they fit into the larger game's reward mechanics (and the mentioned add of teleporters to the raids) then that shouldn't need to take up so much of the conversation focus it. We should have all just said, yeah, for these quests, up their XP, maybe move their level, and add teleports. Then build more quests that have these same design mechanics, just, you know, don't give the new one's lousy XP so that they can fit into people's dailies or TRs if that's all they care about.

OK well #1 XP is how we measure progress in DDO - The Devs could make the Perfect Quest but if the XP wasn't worth the time people wouldn't continue to run it!
Favour is once and done.
Loot is a few times and done.
XP is what keeps players coming back over and over and over again.
This is why VoN 3 is the single most popular quest in DDO!

Now with that being said let's look at these quests and your points:

a) Atmospheric
Really?
Sorry but Atmospheric is Necropolis, Vale of Twilight, Amrath, Haunted Halls, King's Forest, Wheloon - Cannith Manufactory does not spring to mind when thinking about Atmosphere.

None of the things you state as examples of Atmospheric have anything to do with the term whatsoever!

a1) Narrated Scroll Explorer Mechanic - This worked ok in a small light and airy indoor environment like the Manufactory but has been used almost exclusively since in every new Explorer Zone and has been the single main reason why I personally HATE The King's Forest, Wheloon, Storm Horns, Schindylrynn, The Underdark, E-Orchard and Epic 3BC {This last one is the absolute worst as Heroic 3BC is my favourite zone in the game!}.

a2) LoB is a menacing presence
Is he?
It never came across like that to me.
Abbot is a menacing presence, Lailat is a menacing presence, Lloth is a menacing presence, LoB Meh!

a3) alternating silliness and seriousness
What silliness? Oh do you mean Players griefing each other in Blown to Bits?
I can do without that sort of silliness thank you.

b) Variety
No complaints about these examples - These quests do have variety.

c) Encounter set up and difficulty
Personally I find the difficulty of these quests to be out of whack with the current game - Because of the MotU in the room and the pointlessness of running Heroic Lvl 17-19 quests for anything other than Favour.
When this pack was created it was to be End-Game content and was therefore made extremely Group Oriented with mobs doing massive damage and lots of CC - But then within months it became dead content because of MotU.

d) Lack of Kill all Mechanics
Blown to Bits pretty much requires you to kill everything.
Power Play requires you to kill everything on the main path.
Schemes has options to avoid fights yes so I suppose 1/3 isn't bad.

[Enoach]

XP is the measure used by a large vocal group...

There are many of us that play this game and XP is secondary or even less important (Since completing a quest happens and XP is earned by that action).


Now it appears some have the opinion that the XP is the only reason people play quests. Again this is manufactured, XP does not keep people playing the game or what brings people back. What does is fun experiences and memories of those experiences.


Sure not all enjoy every type of adventure, but that is what is great about DDO, there are a wide variety of quests.

The pack is under appreciated - it is missed out on because players listen to wrong advice about how to enjoy the game.

Are you sure your time of an hour is accurate? Are you factoring in running out to the quests? You say you did all 3 quests in an hour, stopping to do Reavers in between which means you must have gone into the Explorer zone twice. So if you did Blown to Bits in 20 mins - it had to take you at least 5-10 to get there. You did Power Play and Schemes of the Enemy in 10 mins each plus running to them? I highly doubt your time is accurate. It is far more accurate to say this - each quest takes about a half hour on elite BB, plus 30 minutes of getting into the zone and going to all of them. 2 hours is pretty realistic to do all the quests and often it will take groups 45 minutes to do Power Play and Schemes of the Enemy if they aren't familiar with them (which most groups will not be). I am not saying you can't do the puzzle in Schemes, but I have literally never been in a group that knew how to do the puzzle. Most groups can complete eVON3 in the time it takes to beat down the reactors in Schemes.

I am sure of the times. 1) The explorer area is not that big 2) Dual Screens I keep a clock up 3) My son watches his YouTube Minecraft videos in my office and because I'm a responsible father I track the content he watches 4) I actually run this content every life flagging for the raids because I like this whole series.

[Marshal_Lannes]

I am sure of the times. 1) The explorer area is not that big 2) Dual Screens I keep a clock up 3) My son watches his YouTube Minecraft videos in my office and because I'm a responsible father I track the content he watches 4) I actually run this content every life flagging for the raids because I like this whole series.

Look I am not going to quibble about your time, if you did it in an hour kudos, but that is an abnormal experience. Most groups will take 90 to 120 minutes to do the 3 quests, including forming and going thru the zones (which, while not small, can be difficult to get to the quests).

Paleus - in response to the XP/Min, I only brought this up because it was claimed by some that these quests don't take that much time, which I completely disagree with. They do take a lot of time. If the OP or anyone wants to play them for atmosphere go for it, but let's not then go and try to say well actually these quests are good xp/min too.

[Enoach]

Look I am not going to quibble about your time, if you did it in an hour kudos, but that is an abnormal experience. Most groups will take 90 to 120 minutes to do the 3 quests, including forming and going thru the zones (which, while not small, can be difficult to get to the quests).

Paleus - in response to the XP/Min, I only brought this up because it was claimed by some that these quests don't take that much time, which I completely disagree with. They do take a lot of time. If the OP or anyone wants to play them for atmosphere go for it, but let's not then go and try to say well actually these quests are good xp/min too.

Spies in the House, VoN 3 and even VoN 4 & 5 use to take a long time... Why do these quests take less time now? The answer is because people spent more time playing them and learning them. Learning how to do parts faster and what skills are needed to make the quest go faster.

You include the forming of a group in the time, there are those that don't wait so running out, running quests and forming groups the time overlaps. This is part of the reason why someone can take only 20 minutes in these quests. The other part is having people join that also know how these quests work and are able to contribute in areas that will speed up the completion, or have people that join the group that are willing to following instructions instead of doing their own thing (the solo in group mentality)

Now these quests will take longer if the group is green with the quest. But that could be said about any quest except maybe Havadasher

[Marshal_Lannes]

Now these quests will take longer if the group is green with the quest. But that could be said about any quest except maybe Havadasher

Not really. One of the reasons the OP likes these quests is because they are not linear. Even a green group is going to have no problem zerging Grim and Barrett because the quest is linear. Devil's Gambit quests are basically start and go in a straight line to the end with a couple turns. It is because the House C quests are not linear that they are going to require more party meta knowledge or effort.

Likewise, you can start Von3 or Spies because 1) they are popular and you know people are going to join you in IP. 2) they are easy to get to and people can join IP with little effort. You can post a LFM for House C and it might never fill and you can find yourself in Schemes solo 40 minutes later. Now I do agree that Spies is not exactly a straight forward quest and before people realized how much epic XP it gave there were likely many people who did not know how to do Spies while now virtually anyone with a couple months of game experience is well versed on the quest.

Can the House C quests ever become popular? I doubt it, but who knows, anything can happen and often does when a large group of people decided what is popular and what is not.

[dunklezhan]

Thanks everyone for the comments here.

I agree XP/min is "bad" as defined by comparing it to quests which give out many times more for less time, though I still don't personally think that the XP/quest is bad. I would not object to a bump if it would serve to make the quests more popular at this point, but this is not something that's particularly important to me personally.

It seems everyone agrees something ought to be done about options for getting to the actual raids.

A fair few people who've responded do seem to like the quests themselves.


So... Devs? Thoughts?

Obviously: "we have no plans to revisit at this time". Sure, I understand! But that's not what I'm asking. What's your opinion? Do they deserve to at least go on the list?

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

And remember Devs.......what better time to revamp the House C quests then when you revamp crafting amirite?

(Seriously......would changing the xp on those quests not LITERALLY be changing a dozen numbers in a file? If it is more work that that, you did it wrong! Give me the file, Ill change it for you for free.)

It would literally take 5 minutes unless you guys write some horrible code.

[Livmo]

This is one of my favs, esp. LoB (ingrediants) and MA (blanks).

They aren't that bad (flagging quests). Blown to Bits can be done fast by just killing the paladins. Schemes of the Enemy is about medium-ish depending on the party. It can go faster or slower. If I had a least favorite it would be Power Play. Sometimes it just takes too long and I gotta go. Only 3 flagging quests and 2 raids.

The slayer and pre-raid areas round it out. I'm surprises that more folks don't run the raids and the quests. Loots not bad. You get favor. They can be fun.

However, I don't really play for XP. I'm more into fun and just doing what I feel like playing.

Sometimes I play till L24-25 ish with a Totemic Levilar and loot from Cannith (gloves, googles, boots, and necklace).

From Secrets of the Artificers slayer area:

• Fabricator's Gauntlets - Gloves: Strength +6, Resistance +5, Melee Alacrity 10%, Nearly Finished [ML18, BtA] (Wrack's chest)
• Magewright's Spectacles - Goggles: Intelligence +6, Spell Penetration III,Concentration +10, Enhanced Concentration +5, Nearly Finished [ML18, BtA] (Stellite's chest)
• Tinker's Goggles - Goggles: Intelligence +6, Treason, Disable Device +10, Enhanced Disable Device +5, Nearly Finished [ML18, BtA] (Bulat's chest)

From Blown to Bits:

• Fabricator's Bracers - Bracers: Cannith Combat Infusion, Incite +20%, Balance +10, Enhanced Balance +5, Nearly Finished [ML18, BTA] (Iron Fire Bomber Chest)
• Alchemist's Pendant - Necklace: Constitution +6, Alchemical Conservation, Greater Elemental Energy, Nearly Finished [ML18, BTA] (End Chests, including the optional one for destroying

From Schemes of the Enemy:

• Tinker's Gloves - Gloves: Dexterity +6, Exceptional Seeker 2, Open Lock +10, Enhanced Open Lock +5, Nearly Finished [ML18, BtA] (Any Chest)
• Cannith Boots of Propulsion - Boots: Striding +30%, Feather Falling, Jet Propulsion, Jump +10, Enhanced Jump +5 [ML18, BtA, Exclusive] (Dackle <Master of the Hounds>'s chest, or bonus chest for convincing the Cannith guards to join you)

I did not post all the items.

I use the set bonuses at times. You can check out the set bonus info. on the items. Some are nice to use.

Toven's Hammer is one of my favorite items in game.