Cleric domains!

[HastyPudding]

I was thinking about what the devs said not too long ago in a podcast about entertaining the possibility of clerics getting their domains. Personally, I'd love to see it, since the cleric class is extremely bland and has nothing special to call their own except being slightly better at turning undead than paladins and having the only real healing enhancement tree.

It wouldn't take much to add domains. I mean, the tech already exists in the forum of warlock pacts and deity feats.

Healing Domain
Cleric Level 1: You automatically gain the Empower Healing metamagic feat
Cleric Level 5: +10 positive energy spellpower
Cleric Level 10: +5% positive energy critical hit chance
Cleric Level 15: Panacea spell-like ability (SP cost: 20, cooldown: 5 seconds)

Magic Domain
Cleric Level 1: +35 maximum spell points
Cleric Level 5: +10% spell critical damage
Cleric Level 10: +35 additional maximum spell points and +5 universal spellpower
Cleric Level 15: Cometfall spell-like ability (SP cost: 35, cooldown: 15 seconds)

War Domain
Cleric Level 1: +1 attack and damage, +1 additional attack and damage with favored weapons
Cleric Level 5: +3% doublestrike and doubleshot
Cleric Level 10: Your weapon and unarmed attacks inflict an additional 2d8 light damage
Cleric Level 15: +1 critical multiplier on attack rolls of 20

Death Domain
Cleric Level 1: +10 negative energy spellpower
Cleric Level 5: +5% negative energy critical hit chance
Cleric Level 10: +2 to the DC of your necromancy spells
Cleric Level 15: Inflict Critical Wounds spell-like ability (SP cost: 16, cooldown: 6 seconds)

Sun Domain
Cleric Level 1: +10 light spellpower
Cleric Level 5: +3 turn undead uses
Cleric Level 10: 25% light absorption
Cleric Level 15: Increase the maximum hit dice of undead turned by 6 and you count as 6 levels higher when turning undead

Protection Domain
Cleric Level 1: You gain proficiency with tower shields and gain +5 armor class
Cleric Level 5: +1 to all saves
Cleric Level 10: +5% maximum hit points and your unconscious range is extended by 25
Cleric Level 15: +15 physical resistance rating and magical resistance rating

Travel Domain
Cleric Level 1: Action Boost: Sprint; activate to run 50% faster for 20 seconds. 5 uses per rest
Cleric Level 5: +5 to the tumble and jump skills. Additionally, you gain the mobility feat whether you qualify for it or not.
Cleric Level 10: The spell Dimension Door is automatically added to your known level 4 spell list
Cleric Level 15: You are now immune to slippery surfaces and most knockdown effects; this can be toggled on to float as if affected by the featherfall spell.

Knowledge Domain
Cleric Level 1: +1 to all skills
Cleric Level 5: +6 sacred bonus to saves versus illusions and enchantments
Cleric Level 10: You are now automatically affected by the True Seeing spell and your weapon and unarmed attacks automatically gain ghost touch
Cleric Level 15: +5 to the use magic device skill. Additionally, you have a 15% chance to retain a copy of a scroll when using it.


Watcha think?

[Discpsycho]

I'm impressed, as they're not particularly restrictive to one type of cleric and therefore encourage more of the slightly-above-flavor-strength hybridization that keeps builds interesting and innovative! Some of these provide a significant improvement for a pure or mostly-pure cleric, but they make sense given the larger benefits that would be gained by multi-classing (eg. War Domain clerics would get the +1 to crit multiplier that is mutually exclusive with and would otherwise be available to them if they took 6 levels of fighter and dropped 11 points in Kensai). A lot of these buffs are theoretically available elsewhere (like TS), which is also a plus in my book, as new aspects have a tendency to get overpowered *coughs* the entire Warlock class at its release *coughs*

[Vish]

I like your ideas.
But 8 domains?
I would think 3. Maybe heal, war and protection/light
To mimic the three pacts similar to warlock, and the three cleric trees
But more would definitely add variety and versatility.
I see this as maybe op cleric? As adds would stack? And you could double buff one aspect.
But I'm all for clerics recieving their due...

I am looking into ways to put wisdom to dam/hit into cleric warpriest.
Something has to be done to bring pure clerics into line

And many domains would bring fresh change

[HastyPudding]

I like your ideas.
But 8 domains?
I would think 3. Maybe heal, war and protection/light
To mimic the three pacts similar to warlock, and the three cleric trees
But more would definitely add variety and versatility.
I see this as maybe op cleric? As adds would stack? And you could double buff one aspect.
But I'm all for clerics recieving their due...

I am looking into ways to put wisdom to dam/hit into cleric warpriest.
Something has to be done to bring pure clerics into line

And many domains would bring fresh change

Admittedly, the death, travel, and knowledge domains were a bit of an afterthought, so I thought I would add them for discussion's sake. Of the three, I think death makes the most sense, since clerics have several unique necromancy spells. You could probably narrow it down to 5:

- Healing domain is a given, since cleric has always been considered the primary healer of DDO (and since they have the only tree dedicated completely to healing).

- War domain is a good choice simply because there are always going to be warpriests.

- The sun domain is a must-have, since clerics mainly use light spellpower and turn undead is a big part of them.

- The magic domain could probably use some work, but it was there for more offensively-oriented spellcasters that don't want to be a light cannon and use spell like flamestrike, firestorm, cometfall, and blade barrier more often.

- Protection domain would be good for the more defensive-minded clerics that like to run in unyielding sentinel and heal in the front lines.


I'm not sure what you mean by stacking adds and double buffing, but on the subject of wisdom to damage/hit I'm not for that for clerics. Henshin mystic monks, maybe and only with quarterstaves, but not clerics or favored souls.

[Grandern_Marn]

I have heard one of the DDO podcasts the devs talking about wanting to implement Cleric domains somehow into the game so this suggestion is something being considered. There are other things coming down the pipeline like Cannith Crafting or perhaps sentient weapons but the possibilities for domains have been discussed.

[Discpsycho]

To be honest, I'm not sure Healing domain is necessary. Clerics are always going to have the best capacity for healing and don't especially need a boost, given how much positive spellpower one can accrue these days. It might be nice for a Warpriest, but I think they'd benefit more from the offensive boost than anything else

[FranOhmsford]

I was thinking about what the devs said not too long ago in a podcast about entertaining the possibility of clerics getting their domains. Personally, I'd love to see it, since the cleric class is extremely bland and has nothing special to call their own except being slightly better at turning undead than paladins and having the only real healing enhancement tree.

It wouldn't take much to add domains. I mean, the tech already exists in the forum of warlock pacts and deity feats.

Healing Domain
Cleric Level 1: You automatically gain the Empower Healing metamagic feat
Cleric Level 5: +10 positive energy spellpower
Cleric Level 10: +5% positive energy critical hit chance
Cleric Level 15: Panacea spell-like ability (SP cost: 20, cooldown: 5 seconds)

SP Cost is ludicrously high for an SLA!
The Spwr+Crit Chance is overkill and frankly unnecessary to a Cleric anyway.

Emp. Heal being free is pretty much mandatory for this Domain but I'd add Free Quicken at Lvl 15, Move the Panacea down to Lvl 10 & Drop it's cost to 10 sp and add +3 Turn Attempts at Lvl 5 {Radiant Burst, Radiant Aura require Turns}.

Magic Domain
Cleric Level 1: +35 maximum spell points
Cleric Level 5: +10% spell critical damage
Cleric Level 10: +35 additional maximum spell points and +5 universal spellpower
Cleric Level 15: Cometfall spell-like ability (SP cost: 35, cooldown: 15 seconds)

SLA Cost = What now? Try reducing that to 15 SP per Cast!

War Domain
Cleric Level 1: +1 attack and damage, +1 additional attack and damage with favored weapons
Cleric Level 5: +3% doublestrike and doubleshot
Cleric Level 10: Your weapon and unarmed attacks inflict an additional 2d8 light damage
Cleric Level 15: +1 critical multiplier on attack rolls of 20

Let's lose the Favoured Weapon bit and just add +2 Attck/Dmg with All Weapons the Character is proficient with incl. The Favoured Weapon of her deity!

Death Domain
Cleric Level 1: +10 negative energy spellpower
Cleric Level 5: +5% negative energy critical hit chance
Cleric Level 10: +2 to the DC of your necromancy spells
Cleric Level 15: Inflict Critical Wounds spell-like ability (SP cost: 16, cooldown: 6 seconds)

Does anyone use Inflicts?
This is a Lvl 15 ability - At least make it Slay Living for that SP cost!

Sun Domain
Cleric Level 1: +10 light spellpower
Cleric Level 5: +3 turn undead uses
Cleric Level 10: 25% light absorption
Cleric Level 15: Increase the maximum hit dice of undead turned by 6 and you count as 6 levels higher when turning undead

Change the 25% Absorb to Free Improved Turning Feat {This is a Cleric Domain NOT Pale Master!}

Protection Domain
Cleric Level 1: You gain proficiency with tower shields and gain +5 armor class
Cleric Level 5: +1 to all saves
Cleric Level 10: +5% maximum hit points and your unconscious range is extended by 25
Cleric Level 15: +15 physical resistance rating and magical resistance rating

This is good.

Travel Domain
Cleric Level 1: Action Boost: Sprint; activate to run 50% faster for 20 seconds. 5 uses per rest
Cleric Level 5: +5 to the tumble and jump skills. Additionally, you gain the mobility feat whether you qualify for it or not.
Cleric Level 10: The spell Dimension Door is automatically added to your known level 4 spell list
Cleric Level 15: You are now immune to slippery surfaces and most knockdown effects; this can be toggled on to float as if affected by the featherfall spell.

Lvl 1: Expeditious Retreat added to Spell Book.

Knowledge Domain
Cleric Level 1: +1 to all skills
Cleric Level 5: +6 sacred bonus to saves versus illusions and enchantments
Cleric Level 10: You are now automatically affected by the True Seeing spell and your weapon and unarmed attacks automatically gain ghost touch
Cleric Level 15: +5 to the use magic device skill. Additionally, you have a 15% chance to retain a copy of a scroll when using it.

Watcha think?

Swap Lvl 10 and 15 around.

[HastyPudding]

To be honest, I'm not sure Healing domain is necessary. Clerics are always going to have the best capacity for healing and don't especially need a boost, given how much positive spellpower one can accrue these days. It might be nice for a Warpriest, but I think they'd benefit more from the offensive boost than anything else

The healing domain is pretty much there because...cleric. Free empower healing frees up a feat slot in a very feat-stared class.

*SNIP*

I always err on the side of conservatism when making suggestions. I don't like overpowered things. The SP costs, in general, are modeled directly after the spells themselves:
Panacea spell = 25 SP / SLA = 20 SP (literally a cure-all on a short cooldown. 20 SP is perfectly fine)

Cometfall spell = 35 SP / SLA = 35 SP (same cost, but because this is actually a very useful spell, it's level 6 (higher than the majority of sla's), and it will have free metamagic usage rather than the 80-90ish of a full meta'd cometfall)

Inflict Critical Wounds spell = 16 SP / SLA = 16 SP (considering disciple has a negative energy line this isn't a bad 'alternative' playstyle. I'd say 10 SP is good enough)

As to the domains themselves:
Healing - I didn't want extra turns in every single domain, and they really only belong in the sun domain, anyway. There's always people who always want more healing. This is the perfect domain for new clerics, or those who don't have or want to have the equipment slot for devotion/healing items.

Magic - This could probably use some sprucing up, maybe in the form of more SP or a small universal critical chance boost.

War - I'd agree to that.

Death - A slay living SLA wouldn't be bad, and it would make an interesting necromancy build along with harm, destruction, and symbol of pain/death.

Sun - Why? You basically get a much better version of the feat in the level 15 spot. Light damage also can be pretty nasty to any class, and since clerics usually have a tough time with magic casters due to low reflex saves and MMR bonuses, the extra light absorption would be useful.

Travel - I don't understand your fetish with the expeditious retreat buff. It doesn't stack with anything, and ship buffs pretty much override any striding/speed/haste movement boost to begin with. A sprint boost would be infinitely more useful, here.

Knowledge - Again, I question your concepts of what is imbalanced and what isn't.

[Enderoc]

Not going in depth about how to do this but giving incomplete suggestions in examples of what I think should be considered in how to deal with domains and their direction...

Death should have undead forms to a lesser degree than Palemaster and unable to cast positive healing spells. Sickle should be added as a favored weapon.

War should have a choice to be granted weapon style feats of choice regardless of stat and unable to cast charm or suggestion like spells. Curved blades should be added as favored weapons.

Sun should have astral like forms and be subjected greater by negative energy. Mauls should be added as favored weapons.

Nature should have a dryad form and access to some druidic spells, Greatclubs and Quarterstaffs should be added as favored weapons. Alignment spells would not be allowed.

[FranOhmsford]

The healing domain is pretty much there because...cleric. Free empower healing frees up a feat slot in a very feat-stared class.

And no-one in their right mind is going to take the Healing Domain if that's all it offers!

It needs to offer more - Free Quicken at Lvl 15 would certainly help considering Clerics are low on Feats already and gaining both Emp. Heal AND Quicken through this would be similar to KotC Paladins gaining two Cleaves {and thus freeing up the feat slots for other stuff} through their enhancements!

I always err on the side of conservatism when making suggestions. I don't like overpowered things. The SP costs, in general, are modeled directly after the spells themselves:
Panacea spell = 25 SP / SLA = 20 SP (literally a cure-all on a short cooldown. 20 SP is perfectly fine)

Cometfall spell = 35 SP / SLA = 35 SP (same cost, but because this is actually a very useful spell, it's level 6 (higher than the majority of sla's), and it will have free metamagic usage rather than the 80-90ish of a full meta'd cometfall)

Most SLAs cost less than 10 SP so why should these cost 2,3 or even 3.5x that?

Clerics are literally the weakest class in the game right now and erring on the side of conservatism isn't going to help!

Inflict Critical Wounds spell = 16 SP / SLA = 16 SP (considering disciple has a negative energy line this isn't a bad 'alternative' playstyle. I'd say 10 SP is good enough)

No it's an atrocious alternative playstyle that no-one plays for a REASON!

Divine Disciple already gives Chill Touch, Necrotic Bolt and Neg Energy Burst yet no-one plays a Dark Disciple! They all play LIGHT!

Inflict Crit is a joke next to Neg Energy Burst! {Oh and Neg Energy Burst is 7 SP!}.

As to the domains themselves:
Healing - I didn't want extra turns in every single domain, and they really only belong in the sun domain, anyway. There's always people who always want more healing. This is the perfect domain for new clerics, or those who don't have or want to have the equipment slot for devotion/healing items.

Newbie Clerics who spec into Healing Domain thinking this is WoW or another Trinity Based Game are going to be in a world of hurt because their character is literally useless!

There's already so much heal spwr/h-amp that even a Warpriest can overheal with no trouble whatsoever! Most Healing is actually wasted!

This is why I'd prefer a Healing Domain to concentrate on Turn Based Radiant Bursts/Aura to allow the Cleric to use her SPs for Buffs, Spot Heals and DPS/CC!

Magic - This could probably use some sprucing up, maybe in the form of more SP or a small universal critical chance boost.

Except for the truly ridiculous cost of Cometfall this domain looked fine in your original post.

Death - A slay living SLA wouldn't be bad, and it would make an interesting necromancy build along with harm, destruction, and symbol of pain/death.

It would certainly be a far better option than Inflict Crit!

Sun - Why? You basically get a much better version of the feat in the level 15 spot. Light damage also can be pretty nasty to any class, and since clerics usually have a tough time with magic casters due to low reflex saves and MMR bonuses, the extra light absorption would be useful.

1) The Lvl 15 Spot isn't enough on its own - Not by a long shot! Even with free Improved Turning Feat I've got a feeling TU will still be underpowered and the Devs will have to start adding proper Epic Turning Gear too!

2) Light Absorb fits thematically but really doesn't help the character - Because Clerics don't take extra from Light Damage!

Travel - I don't understand your fetish with the expeditious retreat buff. It doesn't stack with anything, and ship buffs pretty much override any striding/speed/haste movement boost to begin with. A sprint boost would be infinitely more useful, here.

Not everyone has shipbuffs!

The Shipbuff is not supposed to work in quests and is currently bugged so that for some it does and for others it doesn't!

I don't like Action Boosts full stop! There's too many clickies in this game already - We don't need more!

Knowledge - Again, I question your concepts of what is imbalanced and what isn't.

+5 UMD is a lot more use at Lvl 10 than at Lvl 15!

True Seeing isn't really needed until Lvl 15+ and Clerics can take it as early as Lvl 9 if a quest demands it!

[HastyPudding]

Not going in depth about how to do this but giving incomplete suggestions in examples of what I think should be considered in how to deal with domains and their direction...

Death should have undead forms to a lesser degree than Palemaster and unable to cast positive healing spells. Sickle should be added as a favored weapon.

War should have a choice to be granted weapon style feats of choice regardless of stat and unable to cast charm or suggestion like spells. Curved blades should be added as favored weapons.

Sun should have astral like forms and be subjected greater by negative energy. Mauls should be added as favored weapons.

Nature should have a dryad form and access to some druidic spells, Greatclubs and Quarterstaffs should be added as favored weapons. Alignment spells would not be allowed.

Absolutely not. These are not pacts, undead forms, or major class abilities: they're augmenting the abilities a cleric already possesses or adding to them.

And no-one in their right mind is going to take the Healing Domain if that's all it offers!

It needs to offer more - Free Quicken at Lvl 15 would certainly help considering Clerics are low on Feats already and gaining both Emp. Heal AND Quicken through this would be similar to KotC Paladins gaining two Cleaves {and thus freeing up the feat slots for other stuff} through their enhancements!



Most SLAs cost less than 10 SP so why should these cost 2,3 or even 3.5x that?

Clerics are literally the weakest class in the game right now and erring on the side of conservatism isn't going to help!



No it's an atrocious alternative playstyle that no-one plays for a REASON!

Divine Disciple already gives Chill Touch, Necrotic Bolt and Neg Energy Burst yet no-one plays a Dark Disciple! They all play LIGHT!

Inflict Crit is a joke next to Neg Energy Burst! {Oh and Neg Energy Burst is 7 SP!}.



Newbie Clerics who spec into Healing Domain thinking this is WoW or another Trinity Based Game are going to be in a world of hurt because their character is literally useless!

There's already so much heal spwr/h-amp that even a Warpriest can overheal with no trouble whatsoever! Most Healing is actually wasted!

This is why I'd prefer a Healing Domain to concentrate on Turn Based Radiant Bursts/Aura to allow the Cleric to use her SPs for Buffs, Spot Heals and DPS/CC!



Except for the truly ridiculous cost of Cometfall this domain looked fine in your original post.



It would certainly be a far better option than Inflict Crit!



1) The Lvl 15 Spot isn't enough on its own - Not by a long shot! Even with free Improved Turning Feat I've got a feeling TU will still be underpowered and the Devs will have to start adding proper Epic Turning Gear too!

2) Light Absorb fits thematically but really doesn't help the character - Because Clerics don't take extra from Light Damage!



Not everyone has shipbuffs!

The Shipbuff is not supposed to work in quests and is currently bugged so that for some it does and for others it doesn't!

I don't like Action Boosts full stop! There's too many clickies in this game already - We don't need more!



+5 UMD is a lot more use at Lvl 10 than at Lvl 15!

True Seeing isn't really needed until Lvl 15+ and Clerics can take it as early as Lvl 9 if a quest demands it!

First off, enough with the exclamation points. I've seen you type perfectly fine without them, so you're only using them to antagonize me because you know it's wrong. You can go ahead and play your little game where you complain to the forum mods and pretend to be the picked on foreigner (AGAIN), but it doesn't fool me.

Healing domain doesn't need free quicken AND empower healing. Maybe reduce the cost of empower healing so that, when used with the radiant servant cost reduction, it will basically be a free metamagic?

Turbine has always given many options to build characters, that includes flavor and sub-par builds. Negative energy burst is 25 SP...

Don't make sweeping generalizations that newbie clerics that like to heal are useless. They're learning the game, and watching people's red bars is a good way to learn what classes have what strengths and weaknesses in combat.

As to cometfall, when it comes to SLA's, usually the very strong/high spell level ones, they don't deviate much from the cost of the actual spell. I'd say 25 SP is the lowest I would go, because it's just to much utility and power in an SLA to make it completely spammable.

It doesn't matter that the class doesn't take extra damage from light. Henshin mystics don't take extra damage from fire but gain fire resistance. Rangers and bards don't take extra damage from elemental spells but they still gain resistance enhancements. Sorcerers don't take extra damage from elemental spells but they still gain bonuses to resistance depending on the savant tree they pick. Light damage can be pretty nasty, regardless of the class, and this would fortify clerics against mobs like drow priestesses, eladrin ghaeles, and borrow wights.

You say you don't like clickies but you'll be okay with a SLA that is useless beyond level 7ish? Maybe a flat sacred bonus to movement speed, like 10%? It sucks being a cleric in an EE/LE quest and not being able to reach people to cast a quick heal before they die.