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  1. #421
    Community Member tpbtoc's Avatar
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    TBH crafting itens should be better than random lootgen since they are just random stuff you find in the chest. Crafting takes time and effort.

  2. #422
    Community Member RD2play's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpbtoc View Post
    TBH crafting itens should be better than random lootgen since they are just random stuff you find in the chest. Crafting takes time and effort.
    Crafted items are going to be better than RGL, since you can choose the effects. Only MC RGL that has exactly those effects you are looking for are going to be better than Crafted, and those are going to few and far between. And maybe ML30 items but we don't know the cut-off yet for the effect values. I can tell you that it will take you a lot longer to get an MC item with the effects combo you want than to craft if at the "max norm" power.
    G-land, Balistas Magicas, Bashukar Bloodaxe, Kobur Curse of Dragon, Necromatix

  3. #423
    Community Member Enderoc's Avatar
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    the new loot does not seem compatible in attempts to try to use them for powering energy cells for greensteel crafting. that means the current cannith crafting may be the only way to do so.

    please consider this before you release the update.

  4. #424
    Community Member Sven_Hoek's Avatar
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    Default Whatever is done, please do this -->

    Whatever is decided upon -
    When the time comes for the Cannith Crafting Update 3? , PLEASE (x1000) let us know somewhere PROMINENT (like the front page of DDO.com) at LEAST 2 Weeks before Launch.
    An Example, the front page of DDO.com and the DDO Launcher you can have a graphic:

    JOIN US ON Lamannia for a sneak peak of the NEW Cannith Crafting System..

    THEN once details are ironed out and working 99% properly, (2 weeks BEFORE LAUNCH) use a new graphic that "warns" us:

    Update 3?: Calling ALL Blacksmiths, NEW CRAFTING SYSTEM to be released on <date>. Read details here ...

    In those details: release conversion rates for new essences, New Crafting XP curve, what will still be usable, what happens to older crafted items. Can I deconstruct them? will their level go up e.g. A [+15 potential] Lvl 20 item goes to Lvl 29? and many other notes. Anything that would help us determine if we should make items in the old system before the new goes live or save essences to convert to the new system, or a combination of both...the more we are informed, the better the reception of the new system. It will let us players have the expectations set PRIOR, unlike the Sneak-attack +17 update at the beginning of the year.

    We would (well AT LEAST I'd) rather this update be DELAYED than thrust upon us only (40%, 60%, 75%, 99% etc working) or worse not working at all. We've been waiting for years, what's a month or more going to matter.
    Oh, one last thing, PLEASE have a roll back plan to the old system in case the update "BREAKS" the entire crafting system. It would be nice to retain/rollback the old system in that situation, than waiting for the new one being fixed.

    It's amazing how these type of preparations are received in the framework of customer service...and all you are doing is providing knowledge and expectations, not much extra cost, except for compiling a list and posting it and time required for a rollback, if needed.

    Thank you.

  5. #425
    Community Member Hilltrot's Avatar
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    Finally!

    I don't care what you do. Just update it.

  6. #426
    Founder pjw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoWorries View Post
    Why not allow Cannith to put effects in any slot? In the new loot system, Named Items main advantages are that they don't have to follow the slot restriction for effects and get the Quality bonus type for effects. If Cannith also ignores the slot restrictions it takes a way a big aspect of what makes Named Loot special and goes a long way to making Random Loot useless.
    I just re-read this based on concerns raised in another thread, and disagree.

    While I do agree that completely ignoring slot rules is bad, having a facility to craft in alternate slots is good. Limits could be placed in a number of ways:

    - not all shard flexible
    - more expensive
    - takes longer to craft (I have no idea if you intend us to craft instantly, or have a crafting queue that takes hours or days). Note: a queue, with large XP per item, would alleviate a lot of grind AND lag.
    - can only be crafted in the 'extra' slot
    - requires other special ingredients
    - has a higher ML

    Named loot will remain special because of the huge range of effects it has, random loot will remain special because it's unbound, cheap, has more effects available,and can (potentially) have more flexible effects.

  7. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpbtoc View Post
    TBH crafting itens should be better than random lootgen since they are just random stuff you find in the chest. Crafting takes time and effort.
    It takes time to quest and it is a real rare thing to get even close to what you really want so that's why RGL should be better


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  8. #428
    Community Member SilkofDrasnia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    It takes time to quest and it is a real rare thing to get even close to what you really want so that's why RGL should be better
    No, its the nature of random loot to be random. You don't run quests "just" for loot but for XP, the random loot is a bonus, an extra if you will which is why crafting should be better because you invest time in it purely for loot contrary to questing.

    The one and only time you might run a quest or raid for loot is if your after some particularly juicey named or raid item which in turn should be better than both crafted and random loot.
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    Somebody should definitely explain to Turbine that when they roll up a new GM that INT is not dump stat.

  9. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoWorries View Post
    We know Deconstructing is one of the most time consuming aspects of CC and will look into ways to reduce this, but I do not have answers as to how this will work yet.
    The process that we have now is fine, it's just laggy and buggy.

    Regardless of how you implement it, I'm going to have to mouse over each item to decide if I want to deconstruct it, sell it on the AH, or keep it. Whatever I decide, I'm going to drag the item somewhere so that the remaining items will already be sorted into keep/sell when my crafting is done. Dragging it to another window for deconstructing doesn't take any extra time. Deciding which essence I want and clicking deconstruct only takes me about a second or two.

    The problem is that the animation can take about 5 seconds plus any lag, then sometimes my screen freezes for several seconds, then sometimes when I drag in the next item to deconstruct it, the deconstructor won't take it, so I have to close and reopen the interface. What should be an extra 2 seconds per item can become 15 seconds per item. When it gets really bad, I just give up and vendor the items instead of deconstructing them.

  10. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    It takes time to quest and it is a real rare thing to get even close to what you really want so that's why RGL should be better
    I have to agree here.
    If CC is as good as (not even better than) RGL then RGL is 100% worthless, because it takes less time to level CC than to get a "stars aligned item." I like that they are requiring marks of cannith for 3rd effects, those are not too hard to get through favor, but it takes something.
    Perhaps a MEGA-rare (like HoW rare) drop that allowed crafting an item at RGL level would be cool. But from easily obtained items CC needs to be weaker than "lucky" RGL.

  11. #431
    Community Member Ebondevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    It takes time to quest and it is a real rare thing to get even close to what you really want so that's why RGL should be better
    Personally I'm on the side of Random Items being 99.9999999999% worthless and I'll get more use out of Random loot if I can make them into good Crafted items.

    I don't Quest for chests, the only thing I find in chests are Guild Renown and Plat. Most of the time the End reward lists are junk, even with a bit of choice there, and I'll still take renown.


    This is really an argument about apples and oranges

    Group A: I like Apples, so they should be better!
    Group B: I like Oranges, so they should be better!



    So the Best solution really is to have Random Items and Crafted Items have the same potential.

    For example:
    Say you can only create ML 1 items, those ML 1 Items should be the worst that Random Loot can offer you
    Say you can create ML 2 Items, Those ML 2 items should be the worst Random loot can offer you, but your ML 1 Items can be slightly better
    Say you can create ML 10 Items, those ML 10 items should be the worst Random loot has to offer, but your ML 1 Items should now be the best Random loot has to offer.

    So as you get better in crafting, not only can you make higher Min level items, but the lower items you make get better as well.

  12. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ebondevil View Post
    Personally I'm on the side of Random Items being 99.9999999999% worthless and I'll get more use out of Random loot if I can make them into good Crafted items.

    I don't Quest for chests, the only thing I find in chests are Guild Renown and Plat. Most of the time the End reward lists are junk, even with a bit of choice there, and I'll still take renown.


    This is really an argument about apples and oranges

    Group A: I like Apples, so they should be better!
    Group B: I like Oranges, so they should be better!



    So the Best solution really is to have Random Items and Crafted Items have the same potential.

    For example:
    Say you can only create ML 1 items, those ML 1 Items should be the worst that Random Loot can offer you
    Say you can create ML 2 Items, Those ML 2 items should be the worst Random loot can offer you, but your ML 1 Items can be slightly better
    Say you can create ML 10 Items, those ML 10 items should be the worst Random loot has to offer, but your ML 1 Items should now be the best Random loot has to offer.

    So as you get better in crafting, not only can you make higher Min level items, but the lower items you make get better as well.
    You would force people to craft and that's wrong I hate crafting and if it was required I would quit and raise a more than likely useless fuss but I don't think I would be the only one many people hate crafting. and they already said crafting wont be the very best random loot but random being random it will be a long time before anyone gets the very best random if they ever do.

    Put crafting with the hirelings and nuke'em both twice.


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  13. #433
    Community Member JoyfulEagle's Avatar
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    Default Responding to complaints

    I like the new system you have described. Like a lot of other people here, my first reaction is... "but, what about x", or "you can't do y".

    I have a couple comments that might help smooth things over.

    1) Like someone pointed out, communication is going to be key. Make sure it is well publicized with plenty of lead time for people to prepare. Otherwise, people will be angry, no matter how good it is.

    2) Sell the downsides with what mitigates it (AKA spin it). For example, "not being able to craft any property into any slot" is a negative. I am not sure if this means that flexible shards go away. If so, that could make crafting quite challenging. However, (assuming that flexible shards do go away), what mitigates that is that with a mark-of-cannith, you can add a third property to an item. So, finding a place to put Strength and another place to put Constitution goes away, because they can both go on the same item. Problem solved (assuming you have Marks of Cannith). In fact, having a third property available solves a number of potential negatives.

    Those things said, I still have a few "wants".

    A) Augments present a problem. If an item has a fixed level, and there is an augment on that item, it can't be recrafted for multiple levels. (Like others, I use the "Master's Gift" this way). However, rather than changing the way item blanks work, this could easily be solved by allowing an easier way to unslot an augment. I know that if this is done too broadly, it will make Turbine unhappy at the loss of revenue for Jeweler's Toolkits. However, the new method could be limited to items marked for crafting only, and still allow the Jeweler's Toolkit to work on CC items as well. (I would suggest putting a favor reward for Gatekeepers that allows a new "lesser jeweler's toolkit" to be purchased, or as a remnant turn-in).

    B) Mark-of-Cannith. If it doesn't allow us to make an item 2 levels lower, I can probably live with that. I presume existing items would continue to work, and I would want to make a bunch of BtA ones before the switch-over. So, let us know this early. It might be nice, if an item that had only 1 property, plus the MoC, that it would be usable 2 levels lower. Thus, sacrificing a 2nd and 3rd property could make something work like it used to. Just a thought. But however this is handled, please communicate it clearly, and early. Thanks in advance.

    C) I like the idea of being able to "turn-in" items for essences, instead of deconstructing them. Even if the essences were randomly chosen, or split between the schools, or even unrelated to the properties of the items being deconstructed, I think it would probably be worth it. The lag when deconstructing is huge now. Anything that makes it easier is good.
    Last edited by JoyfulEagle; 06-06-2016 at 08:01 PM.

  14. #434
    Community Member Ebondevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    You would force people to craft and that's wrong I hate crafting and if it was required I would quit and raise a more than likely useless fuss but I don't think I would be the only one many people hate crafting. and they already said crafting wont be the very best random loot but random being random it will be a long time before anyone gets the very best random if they ever do.

    Put crafting with the hirelings and nuke'em both twice.
    Not quite sure where you got the idea that what I suggested would force people to craft, what I suggested would give people interested in crafting an alternative way to get the loot they want/need for their builds.

    If you're not interested in crafting, I never said anything about having to use it, the dev's have said nothing about being forced to use it, so you're welcome to stay with the random loot system and I wish you the best of luck getting what you want/need from it.

    Me? I'd like a working crafting system, thank you.

  15. #435

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    I suggested several times on the forums adding a new Skill with the update to Cannith Crafting called Fabrication. Players, especially artificers, could put skill points into Fabrication which would boost their crafting related results.

  16. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ebondevil View Post
    Not quite sure where you got the idea that what I suggested would force people to craft, what I suggested would give people interested in crafting an alternative way to get the loot they want/need for their builds.

    If you're not interested in crafting, I never said anything about having to use it, the dev's have said nothing about being forced to use it, so you're welcome to stay with the random loot system and I wish you the best of luck getting what you want/need from it.

    Me? I'd like a working crafting system, thank you.
    Right where you said make random items 99% worthless


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  17. #437
    Community Member Ebondevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Right where you said make random items 99% worthless
    No, I said Random Items are currently 99% worthless, without a decent crafting system, not to make them worthless.

    A decent crafting system would make some of the current 99% of worthless junk into useful materials for turning into something else.

  18. #438
    Community Member azrael4h's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Right where you said make random items 99% worthless
    I read it not as they should make random loot 99% worthless, but that random loot is 99% worthless. Which is pretty accurate, in regards to weapons at least. Accessories aren't terrible, at least you get good combos out of that, and armor at least drops CON and Fort. Weapons are nearly all terrible.
    Anyone who disagrees is a Terrorist...

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  19. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by azrael4h View Post
    I read it not as they should make random loot 99% worthless, but that random loot is 99% worthless. Which is pretty accurate, in regards to weapons at least. Accessories aren't terrible, at least you get good combos out of that, and armor at least drops CON and Fort. Weapons are nearly all terrible.
    I would classify random lootgen items into 4 categories.

    #1 Special .01% - items that fit really well with some build.
    example: Bracers that have +11 protection, +20 Intimidate, +6 parry
    really nice for a tanky type

    #2 Usable 2% - Items that can be fit into a gear set.
    example: pretty much anything with a 13 or higher in a stat,

    #3 Worthless 97.89%

    #4 Stupid .1% - Items with effects that don't make sense.
    example: Armor with repair amplification.

    So little is actually useful now I don't think that would change much as long as CCing is given a top value less then the best random loot value. Random loot stats can go as high as 15 so CCing should be limited to 13 or 14. Random loot skill bonuses go as high as 21 or 22 i'm not certain but either way limit CCing to 20. And so on with all different types of effects.

  20. #440
    Community Member Arkai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Folker View Post
    #3 Worthless 97.89%

    #4 Stupid .1% - Items with effects that don't make sense.
    example: Armor with repair amplification.
    I know the feeling. But it's always amusing to comment with your party "Hey, look at this doubleshoot collar", if you really care for reading the trash before melting it :P

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