New spells???

[skaught78]

Dearest Gods of Eberron! Please add some new spells to casters spell lists!

I'm not sure when caster passes are coming, but when they do, please consider adding some new spells, and perhaps, even getting rid of some that are never used. and adjusting how some others work.

For example, I have never ever seen anyone cast, nor have I ever had any need to cast the following spells:
Bears Endurance, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Eagle's Splendor, Fox's Cunning, Owl's Wisdom
You could take these spells at level, but there are much more valuable ones to take. And by the time you have room to take them, you will likely already have a +4 item.
Please either remove them, or adjust them so it is a different type of bonus.

Sleet storm
I would love to use this spell on mobs, but I wont use it, nor does anybody else use it for obvious reasons, it affects players as well as mobs. Make sit useless. Make it so players can still see in it.

I like how Gnomes can get bonuses to their illusion spells. However, the illusion spell list is actually pretty sad. Hypnotic pattern and phantasmal killer are the only spells that really can be cast against mobs. Please make it worth while to jack up Illusion DCs by ading some cool new spells.
Just look at the options!
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Illusion_School

This is of course, one players requests. Keep up the good work and thank you for the fun times!

[HastyPudding]

I'd love to see the stat spells (like cat's grace or bear's endurance) changed to be a unique bonus, but lower their bonus from +4 to +2. This way these spells would be so much more useful without being must-have spells.

I'd also love to see spell mantles for arcanes to defend against magic, since their MRR is absurdly low without heavy gear investment.

As for illusion spells, Weird would be a definite good one to add, since it's basically a mass phantasmal killer spell. There's also the shadow spells, which mimic other non-illusion spells but gain benefits from illusion DC's.

I'd like to see a persistent aoe electric spell, too.

[JOTMON]

Dearest Gods of Eberron! Please add some new spells to casters spell lists!

I'm not sure when caster passes are coming, but when they do, please consider adding some new spells, and perhaps, even getting rid of some that are never used. and adjusting how some others work.

For example, I have never ever seen anyone cast, nor have I ever had any need to cast the following spells:
Bears Endurance, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Eagle's Splendor, Fox's Cunning, Owl's Wisdom
You could take these spells at level, but there are much more valuable ones to take. And by the time you have room to take them, you will likely already have a +4 item.
Please either remove them, or adjust them so it is a different type of bonus.

Sleet storm
I would love to use this spell on mobs, but I wont use it, nor does anybody else use it for obvious reasons, it affects players as well as mobs. Make sit useless. Make it so players can still see in it.

I like how Gnomes can get bonuses to their illusion spells. However, the illusion spell list is actually pretty sad. Hypnotic pattern and phantasmal killer are the only spells that really can be cast against mobs. Please make it worth while to jack up Illusion DCs by ading some cool new spells.
Just look at the options!
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Illusion_School

This is of course, one players requests. Keep up the good work and thank you for the fun times!

Bears Endurance, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Eagle's Splendor, Fox's Cunning, Owl's Wisdom
All garbage beyond level 5. these really should have been a unique stacking bonus .. like a +1 divine(or otherstacking bonus)/3 caster levels (+3 at caster level 9)... at least then people would want these cast on them..
currently they are useless and trumped by caster level 1 easily acquired from NPC vendor potions and drop level 5-7 gear.

The spell list is antiquated ..
I have never had to go swap out spells at a shrine on my wizard, or have a need between quests to go swap spells on a sorc.. the overall spell choices are so limited so there is no need to weigh in useful spells.
Should have twice as many spells to choose from to really force players into making hard choices and wanting to swap spells regularly.

Gnome spell list for illusion focus.. pft..
Illusion spells..
Blur
Displacement
*Hypnotic Pattern
Invisibility
Invisibility, Mass
*Phantasmal Killer
Shadow Walk
...two.. two spells have a DC for illusion focus.. and we have a Gnome class who's focus is supposed to benefit illusion spells....
can only hope they release some illusion focussed spells.. you know.. ones that should have come with the release of Gnomes....

[skaught78]

Well said guys. Thanks for the support.

[Uska]

No to the stat spells stacking NO MORE POWERCREEP yes to more illusion spells and maybe some other spells but not sure what ones would be useful in our little game.

[dunklezhan]

No to the stat spells stacking NO MORE POWERCREEP yes to more illusion spells and maybe some other spells but not sure what ones would be useful in our little game.

Oh now come on uska. The stat spells have needed some love since their invention. I would favour buffing these spells to a unique bonus of some kind linked to caster level. I would target the power creep by targeting a recent culprit - random loot. The current lootgen provides too high a frequency of useless combos but it also provides too much power at the top end of each level range.

[bsquishwizzy]

I'd love to see the stat spells (like cat's grace or bear's endurance) changed to be a unique bonus, but lower their bonus from +4 to +2. This way these spells would be so much more useful without being must-have spells.

I'd also love to see spell mantles for arcanes to defend against magic, since their MRR is absurdly low without heavy gear investment.

As for illusion spells, Weird would be a definite good one to add, since it's basically a mass phantasmal killer spell. There's also the shadow spells, which mimic other non-illusion spells but gain benefits from illusion DC's.

I'd like to see a persistent aoe electric spell, too.

Wholeheartedly agree on the stat spells. Make it something like adding a Profane bonus, so that it conflicts with some gear out there.

But I was looking at the definiti0on of Weird. I was thinking that what they could do is basically create a summons that looks like a Shadow mob (but rainbow colored) whose attack inflicts damage, stuns, or PKs on a crit.

[HastyPudding]

No to the stat spells stacking NO MORE POWERCREEP yes to more illusion spells and maybe some other spells but not sure what ones would be useful in our little game.

How about a single mass buff spell that gives a +1 stacking bonus (maybe profane or psionic) to all stats but has the duration of, say, haste or displacement?

Wholeheartedly agree on the stat spells. Make it something like adding a Profane bonus, so that it conflicts with some gear out there.

But I was looking at the definiti0on of Weird. I was thinking that what they could do is basically create a summons that looks like a Shadow mob (but rainbow colored) whose attack inflicts damage, stuns, or PKs on a crit.

Weird could pretty much be a large PK animation (the blue tentacle thing) except make it about 5x larger, make it bright purple instead of blue, and give it an aoe effect roughly the size of fireball/acid blast/freezing sphere/etc. It should have a fairly length cooldown, as well; maybe 40 seconds for wizards and 23ish seconds for sorcerers.

I don't think we need more summons. They have zero survivability a few levels after you get them, and are nothing more than cannon fodder in epics. We would need a massive overhaul of the summoning/pet system to be of any use. In any event, though, weird is not a summoning spell (not conjuration) because it's an aoe instant death spell that basically tries to scare enemies into a heart attack by witnessing their worst nightmare come to life.

As to other illusion spells, what about nightmare, scintillating pattern, illusory wall, and zone of silence?

[Uska]

Oh now come on uska. The stat spells have needed some love since their invention. I would favour buffing these spells to a unique bonus of some kind linked to caster level. I would target the power creep by targeting a recent culprit - random loot. The current lootgen provides too high a frequency of useless combos but it also provides too much power at the top end of each level range.

They were useful when the game started no longer and nor should they ever ever ever ever be boosted in power ITS POWER CREEP AND ITS WRONG

[Uska]

How about a single mass buff spell that gives a +1 stacking bonus (maybe profane or psionic) to all stats but has the duration of, say, haste or displacement?



Weird could pretty much be a large PK animation (the blue tentacle thing) except make it about 5x larger, make it bright purple instead of blue, and give it an aoe effect roughly the size of fireball/acid blast/freezing sphere/etc. It should have a fairly length cooldown, as well; maybe 40 seconds for wizards and 23ish seconds for sorcerers.

I don't think we need more summons. They have zero survivability a few levels after you get them, and are nothing more than cannon fodder in epics. We would need a massive overhaul of the summoning/pet system to be of any use. In any event, though, weird is not a summoning spell (not conjuration) because it's an aoe instant death spell that basically tries to scare enemies into a heart attack by witnessing their worst nightmare come to life.

As to other illusion spells, what about nightmare, scintillating pattern, illusory wall, and zone of silence?

NO power creep of any kind in fact everything should be toned down dramatically but that wouldn't go over well so I would settle for stopping any unneeded power creep I can our stats are already grossly elevated beyond even most Monty Haul and munchkins dreams we don't need more.

[Hafeal]

ITS POWER CREEP AND ITS WRONG

Ah, Uska, buddy, that ship sailed more than 5 years ago.

New spells? Yes.

Will it happen? Highly doubtful.

Adding spells is a huge undertaking, or it at least that has what has been said in the past. Especially if it involves new art and animation. Given the lengthy code base and the unpredictable nature of getting things to play nice and not cause lag, I am guessing the best will be "re-skinned" spells.

[JOTMON]

Across the classes there are....
8 Illusion spells http://ddowiki.com/page/Illusion
33 Abjuration Spells http://ddowiki.com/page/Abjuration
40 Enchantment Spells http://ddowiki.com/page/Enchantment
47 Necro Spells http://ddowiki.com/page/Necromancy
60 Evocation Spells http://ddowiki.com/page/Evocation
69 Transmutation Spells http://ddowiki.com/page/Transmutation
71 Conjuration Spells http://ddowiki.com/page/Conjuration

[Enoach]

First I'm all for more spells and not just for the Arcane classes like Wizard and Sorcerer. I think they need more spells for everyone and a much better depth on all schools and elements

...
For example, I have never ever seen anyone cast, nor have I ever had any need to cast the following spells:
Bears Endurance, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Eagle's Splendor, Fox's Cunning, Owl's Wisdom
You could take these spells at level, but there are much more valuable ones to take. And by the time you have room to take them, you will likely already have a +4 item.
Please either remove them, or adjust them so it is a different type of bonus.

Sleet storm
I would love to use this spell on mobs, but I wont use it, nor does anybody else use it for obvious reasons, it affects players as well as mobs. Make sit useless. Make it so players can still see in it.

..

I understand your feelings towards these spells. They are niche in that at one time having a +4 Attribute Item was rare and especially at level 3. One contributing factor to them not being used is also the fact that more and more players have tomes and these spells were used to boost casting attributes but even these were done with potions so a player could cast, such as a Paladin or Ranger with a low wisdom.

On the question of should these provide a stacking bonus? I'm thinking no, their intention was to be an alternate for gear. And as a Level 2 spell making it a stacking bonus can become dangerous. Now maybe an more interesting approach would be to add a caster level bonus that improves the bonus they higher the caster's level. Such as at level 16 the bonus would be +6 and at 20 +8. This would prevent the spell from being the best option but also make it an alternative to gearing.

On Sleet storm my archer not only has this loaded but I use it to slow down mobs. Sure I have FoM on my boots and yes I'm careful how and when I use it (I don't purposefully cast it on my party). I do agree it I use it far more when I solo. For me it is a throw back to PnP where a caster's spell can just as easily be a determent to their party as a benefit. One of my most memorable moments was casting a Web in a game, sure I stopped the monsters, but I also stuck the Cleric and the Ranger. This meant the parties plan for a hasty retreat had been halted so we could free our fellow party members.

[dunklezhan]

Across the classes there are....
8 Illusion spells http://ddowiki.com/page/Illusion
33 Abjuration Spells http://ddowiki.com/page/Abjuration
40 Enchantment Spells http://ddowiki.com/page/Enchantment
47 Necro Spells http://ddowiki.com/page/Necromancy
60 Evocation Spells http://ddowiki.com/page/Evocation
69 Transmutation Spells http://ddowiki.com/page/Transmutation
71 Conjuration Spells http://ddowiki.com/page/Conjuration

Best illustration of why some more illusions are needed. Main issue I suspect is the way most of the combat-useful illusions work in DnD they would often be barriers and other terrain altering obstructions (or at least would fool mobs into thinking that's what was there), rather than the 'hold' and 'slow' effects of most CC - I'm not at all sure that mob AI is really up to that challenge.

You could maybe do some 'shadow' spells though - selector spells that let you throw a few choice lower level spells as an illusion - gives a double save (one to disbelieve, another to actually save if they fail the disbelief check), but they'd both be based on the illusion DC. E.g. Shadow evocation, L4 illusion, lets you cast a shadow fireball, shadow lightning bolt or shadow frost lance, which could be dragged individually to your hotbar if you want. They'd count as L4 illusion for DCs, but its a level 4 slot for what another mage might carry as a L3, which makes it slightly more expensive to cast and more precious of a slot. But it probably evens out with heighten (other than the double save) and is still something you might take if you were maxing your illusion DC.

You could also do sort of "aggro magnet" illusions - makes you invisible and creates a stationary illusionary double with maybe twice your hitpoints or until you break the invisibility by attacking/flicking a switch/whatever. That sort of thing, anyway.

[Uska]

Ah, Uska, buddy, that ship sailed more than 5 years ago.

New spells? Yes.

Will it happen? Highly doubtful.

Adding spells is a huge undertaking, or it at least that has what has been said in the past. Especially if it involves new art and animation. Given the lengthy code base and the unpredictable nature of getting things to play nice and not cause lag, I am guessing the best will be "re-skinned" spells.

Just saying we don't need another source and I agree not seeing new spells likely

[Uska]

First I'm all for more spells and not just for the Arcane classes like Wizard and Sorcerer. I think they need more spells for everyone and a much better depth on all schools and elements



I understand your feelings towards these spells. They are niche in that at one time having a +4 Attribute Item was rare and especially at level 3. One contributing factor to them not being used is also the fact that more and more players have tomes and these spells were used to boost casting attributes but even these were done with potions so a player could cast, such as a Paladin or Ranger with a low wisdom.

On the question of should these provide a stacking bonus? I'm thinking no, their intention was to be an alternate for gear. And as a Level 2 spell making it a stacking bonus can become dangerous. Now maybe an more interesting approach would be to add a caster level bonus that improves the bonus they higher the caster's level. Such as at level 16 the bonus would be +6 and at 20 +8. This would prevent the spell from being the best option but also make it an alternative to gearing.

On Sleet storm my archer not only has this loaded but I use it to slow down mobs. Sure I have FoM on my boots and yes I'm careful how and when I use it (I don't purposefully cast it on my party). I do agree it I use it far more when I solo. For me it is a throw back to PnP where a caster's spell can just as easily be a determent to their party as a benefit. One of my most memorable moments was casting a Web in a game, sure I stopped the monsters, but I also stuck the Cleric and the Ranger. This meant the parties plan for a hasty retreat had been halted so we could free our fellow party members.

Now that's better caster level determining the non-stacking bonus I like it

[Enoach]

Now that's better caster level determining the non-stacking bonus I like it

There are other spells that I think would also benefit from something similar...

Shield of Faith and Barkskin for example. Spells which at one point provided options to gear which with gear presently double if not more makes these less of an option. I'm ok with gear being better, not ok with spells not even being a consideration as an alternative.

[JOTMON]

There are other spells that I think would also benefit from something similar...

Shield of Faith and Barkskin for example. Spells which at one point provided options to gear which with gear presently double if not more makes these less of an option. I'm ok with gear being better, not ok with spells not even being a consideration as an alternative.

Spells from Arcane/Divine schools should stack independently of gear to encourage the wide spectrum of spells and their ongoing usefulness.
Trumping spells with gear invalidates many spells right out of the gate effectively nullifying any value they may of had.

Ranger barkskin, Paladin Protection.. all easily trumped by low level random gear and augments.

It really invalidates the usefulness of these spells if they do not stack with gear..
Gear should have the limitations to encourage a diversified party to be all they can be.. not trumping party member buffss with gear..

[Enoach]

Spells from Arcane/Divine schools should stack independently of gear to encourage the wide spectrum of spells and their ongoing usefulness.
Trumping spells with gear invalidates many spells right out of the gate effectively nullifying any value they may of had.

Ranger barkskin, Paladin Protection.. all easily trumped by low level random gear and augments.

It really invalidates the usefulness of these spells if they do not stack with gear..
Gear should have the limitations to encourage a diversified party to be all they can be.. not trumping party member buffss with gear..

I think the part we both agree on is equipment should not have invalidated spells. We just see a different solution.

This is just my opinion, but gear never should have exceeded spells. Became equal, but never better. But that has long sailed. So maybe if spells are brought up to scale better vs gear there would be a lot more "optimal setups"

[Qhualor]

There are other spells that I think would also benefit from something similar...

Shield of Faith and Barkskin for example. Spells which at one point provided options to gear which with gear presently double if not more makes these less of an option. I'm ok with gear being better, not ok with spells not even being a consideration as an alternative.

totally agree. the only way to make some spells relevant or more useful again is to either a) make them stack with gear/enhancements/etc or b) raise their level of power beyond the gear/enhancements/etc. end result? more powercreep. the devs over the past couple years have proven they aren't going to go backwards or take away from players in these types of situations, so our only option is to suggest powercreep.