There is no Lag in DDO

[JinxedWarrior]

So lately I've been seeing less and less End Game Raids going on. I'm seeing massive multiple death's in the raid our guild has been running (pun intended). I'm seeing complaints left and right, about lag on almost every single run. I'm seeing raid wipes being blamed to lag. I'm seeing people just giving up and waiting for some imaginary "fix" to come and "solve" eveything in the realms of the DDO worlds.

Here's my stance on all this mumbo jumbo:

Lag happens, lag had always happened, lag will always happen in online mmo games. Some may seem unnoticable, some may seem unbearable. Accept the inevitable.

Playing mmo's with multiple adventurers in your party or raid, especially rpg games with variance in race, class, builds, play style, personality, attitudes, knowledge, and skills results in a wide array of experience during each run. One must compenstate and adjust to fit in their roles for each adventure. Lag is another component that requires adjustment and compenstation for a smoother run. In other words; if you are expecting lag, shouldn't you be preparing and adjusting your toon, builds, play style, and attention to details? You already know lag is coming, so don't act so suprised. Be prepared, and don't let lag defeat you. You're the one with all the time, resources, and preparation to complete your adventures. Lag has no IQ or AI, you should handle it easily.

Here are some tips on beating lag:
duration ticking heals (cocoon, vigor/regeneration, consecration, divine aura, death aura, etc) be sure to keep your hps topped off, minimizing your spell point usuage often leads to risky and uncessary deaths
keep your defense up, have damage migation (prr/mrr, elemental absorption, dodge, ac, displacement, incorpration, etc)
limit the number of mobs you interact with (ie in DoJ, don't bum rush through a tower and **** off all 5+ reinforments at once)
move in groups (you often benefit from party support in terms of healing, aura benefits such as saves and prr/mrr, and dps)
follow the tank (often the tank can't dish out dps, but if you're taking on everything and supposedly blame you death to lag, the tank is not going to be much help. Learn to utlize your party members)
know your quests/raids (preparation can allow for maximal efficiency, and minimal risks, play smart)
follow your assignments (often I see lag claiming a few poor souls, and the rest of the party will panic and stray from their objectives or assignment. This turns into a big cluster-f and you know nothing good will come from that. Stick to your assignment, allow small adjustments to toss out rezzes/heals or support dps here and there, but stick to your assignment because you cannot expect anyone else to do it for you)
focus on the objectives (the sooner your complete your adventure, the less time lag can prevent you from completion)

Jinx's final words of wisdom:
Don't blame lag, it's never lag's fault for your failure, only your own.

PS: Don't ever blame lag for being a pileon in my raids

PS2: I've been playing with lag since before lag was even cool. Lag never stopped Jinx from doing what he does.

[Khatzhas]

Not sure if you're entirely serious, but:
The lag did get much worse, but is is currently being fixed bit by bit. It is evidently not something that is intended, or here to stay in its current amounts.
Therefore burning character resources to design around the current lag may not be worth it since hopefully in the future its not going to be such a dominating factor.

Some levels of lag can be designed for, but some levels will shut down pretty much any character on the harder raids.

You might also want to look at your title, since whatever you were intending to say when you wrote it, you appear to have changed your mind in the actual post.

[JOTMON]

So lately I've been seeing less and less End Game Raids going on. I'm seeing massive multiple death's in the raid our guild has been running (pun intended). I'm seeing complaints left and right, about lag on almost every single run. I'm seeing raid wipes being blamed to lag. I'm seeing people just giving up and waiting for some imaginary "fix" to come and "solve" eveything in the realms of the DDO worlds.

Here's my stance on all this mumbo jumbo:

Lag happens, lag had always happened, lag will always happen in online mmo games. Some may seem unnoticable, some may seem unbearable. Accept the inevitable.

Playing mmo's with multiple adventurers in your party or raid, especially rpg games with variance in race, class, builds, play style, personality, attitudes, knowledge, and skills results in a wide array of experience during each run. One must compenstate and adjust to fit in their roles for each adventure. Lag is another component that requires adjustment and compenstation for a smoother run. In other words; if you are expecting lag, shouldn't you be preparing and adjusting your toon, builds, play style, and attention to details? You already know lag is coming, so don't act so suprised. Be prepared, and don't let lag defeat you. You're the one with all the time, resources, and preparation to complete your adventures. Lag has no IQ or AI, you should handle it easily.

Here are some tips on beating lag:
duration ticking heals (cocoon, vigor/regeneration, consecration, divine aura, death aura, etc) be sure to keep your hps topped off, minimizing your spell point usuage often leads to risky and uncessary deaths
keep your defense up, have damage migation (prr/mrr, elemental absorption, dodge, ac, displacement, incorpration, etc)
limit the number of mobs you interact with (ie in DoJ, don't bum rush through a tower and **** off all 5+ reinforments at once)
move in groups (you often benefit from party support in terms of healing, aura benefits such as saves and prr/mrr, and dps)
follow the tank (often the tank can't dish out dps, but if you're taking on everything and supposedly blame you death to lag, the tank is not going to be much help. Learn to utlize your party members)
know your quests/raids (preparation can allow for maximal efficiency, and minimal risks, play smart)
follow your assignments (often I see lag claiming a few poor souls, and the rest of the party will panic and stray from their objectives or assignment. This turns into a big cluster-f and you know nothing good will come from that. Stick to your assignment, allow small adjustments to toss out rezzes/heals or support dps here and there, but stick to your assignment because you cannot expect anyone else to do it for you)
focus on the objectives (the sooner your complete your adventure, the less time lag can prevent you from completion)

Jinx's final words of wisdom:
Don't blame lag, it's never lag's fault for your failure, only your own.

PS: Don't ever blame lag for being a pileon in my raids

PS2: I've been playing with lag since before lag was even cool. Lag never stopped Jinx from doing what he does.

load of smelly carp.

now if this was a untimed turn based system, then sure.. lag doesn't matter
But in a game where there are timers that continue to count down while players are locked up in lag that results in deaths or failure.. then Lag is unacceptable.

Instead of running challenging content players are running basic content where we can adapt to lag.
Lag is preventing players from challenging the latest and most difficult content, instead we are playing less than challenging rinse/repeat lower difficulties to continue completions at a neutered progression.

All those tips.. are just bsaic teamwork tips.. and don't make a difference when the lag kicks in..

Lag is the top reason people quit games or refuse to invest or continue to play a game.
Many veteran players are off trying other things while holding out hope that the lag will get resolved... eventually even their patience will run out.
New players trying the game experience lag, say screw it and don't get vested into the game.. they tell everyone they know not to play the game because it is laggy.
People hear laggy game.. and skip even trying to play the game,,

Lag matters.

[JinxedWarrior]

load of smelly carp.

now if this was a untimed turn based system, then sure.. lag doesn't matter
But in a game where there are timers that continue to count down while players are locked up in lag that results in deaths or failure.. then Lag is unacceptable.

Instead of running challenging content players are running basic content where we can adapt to lag.
Lag is preventing players from challenging the latest and most difficult content, instead we are playing less than challenging rinse/repeat lower difficulties to continue completions at a neutered progression.

All those tips.. are just bsaic teamwork tips.. and don't make a difference when the lag kicks in..

Lag is the top reason people quit games or refuse to invest or continue to play a game.
Many veteran players are off trying other things while holding out hope that the lag will get resolved... eventually even their patience will run out.
New players trying the game experience lag, say screw it and don't get vested into the game.. they tell everyone they know not to play the game because it is laggy.
People hear laggy game.. and skip even trying to play the game,,

Lag matters.

How do you explain our constant completion of LE & EE raids through out this update?

[MoonGem27]

How do you explain our constant completion of LE & EE raids through out this update?

Well I don't know how to explain it to a "T" but I do know different computers experience different amounts of Lag, also different places in the world get different amounts of Lag. Just depends on how close you are to where the DDO systems are kept. I'd also like to say you sir are quite a jerk. Lag is an issue no matter the game. So you have no right to say Lag is the player of the games fault. I know I have no right to say what I just said to you but you really need to be nice and stop being a jerk and so condescending.

[JinxedWarrior]

Well I don't know how to explain it to a "T" but I do know different computers experience different amounts of Lag, also different places in the world get different amounts of Lag. Just depends on how close you are to where the DDO systems are kept. I'd also like to say you sir are quite a jerk. Lag is an issue no matter the game. So you have no right to say Lag is the player of the games fault. I know I have no right to say what I just said to you but you really need to be nice and stop being a jerk and so condescending.

There is no need to call me names or assume I'm adding insult to the players. The goal of my post was to give players the concept that lag can be beaten. I'm not here to claim that lag is not ruining our game experience. I'm trying to say that lag is here, if you still want to play end game content, then deal with it, and here is how you can succeed. If you had hit any of the raid LFM's where I hold the star in this update, you may have an idea or two how we have been succeeding. I replied to Jotmon that we have been completing end game content in this lag filled update only to rebute his claim that I giving a load of carp, smelly carp to be precise. Anybody who knows Jinx, knows Jinx isn't a load of smelly carp, Jinx is pure awesome.

[Grondok]

Having played Mmos since Everquest thru current day and in that long list of games. Ddo has and always has had issues with lag. Out of the many dozens of Mmos Ive played over the last 18 years none come close to the daily struggle that Ddo has had with lag. Simply telling people that its the status quo and should be something you should adjust to? I suggest you step outside Ddo even the crappy asian Mmos with 300+ latency dont suffer the issues that plague Ddo! Honestly though it has more to do with terrible netcode and engine limitations Ddo is running on 15 year old tech. Ive always hoped that turbine would make a Ddo 2 and bring this game forward to the masses. Most of the people Ive gamed with throughout the years stare aging tech and laggy game play as reasons they hold out on playing.

[Dandonk]

You're right. In many cases lag can be beaten (though when the entire party couldn't move for five minutes I'm not sure how we could've survived that).

But in most cases, I don't get frustrated and log off because the lag spikes make stuff unbeatable. I log off because it's simply not fun for me to play the game in the current state.

[DrawingGuy]

Most of my guild quit, and I went from playing every day to maybe once a week because of the lag. Sure, you can take twice as long pulling much fewer mobs due to lag. Sure, you can build to survive through lag spikes. Sure, I can live with going through stacks for Rez scrolls almost TEN times as quickly because plat means nothing (I've gone through 3 stacks since the server move despite playing far less often, when previously a stack would last months even playing daily). But I don't find trudging through constant lag spikes to be fun. It makes content take MUCH longer to play through, being teleported off ledges is tedious, spamming your heal button in DOJ as you sit through 30+ seconds of solid lag hoping you're alive at the end of it, finding yourself in the middle of a MOD Inferno because lag messed up the call or trapped in a blue circle that you can't move out of... Yes, there is no content that I have not been able to beat since the state of the game went down the tubes with the move to virtual servers, but that does not mean it is something we should have to deal with. I know they're working hard to make it work on the cheaper solution, but I seriously wish this went through heavy testing to see if a 10 year old game would work on completely different architecture and worked to fix it there before doing the move. It was not a small change, and the impact is undeniable.

[JOTMON]

How do you explain our constant completion of LE & EE raids through out this update?

I smell carp...
..lets see the 12man DOJ LE Screen captures of constant completions.. preferably with some sort of confirmation of current day(include a gnome in the party or LE Grensteel crafted item)..
.. not some old school short-manned EE raid completion..or low level LE raid where lag doesn't matter.. or pre-lag pics' from last year..

[Morroiel]

I smell carp...
..lets see the 12man DOJ LE Screen captures of constant completions.. preferably with some sort of confirmation of current day(include a gnome in the party or LE Grensteel crafted item)..
.. not some old school short-manned EE raid completion..or low level LE raid where lag doesn't matter.. or pre-lag pics' from last year..

For what its worth, I can confirm Jinx is telling the truth.

[XbaileyX]

My view is a mixture of most of the things in this thread. While I understand where the OP is coming from and know that personally we have put a lot of time, energy and effort into figuring out small things that work around the lag, I'm unconvinced that the need to do that should be there. DDO's lag is still horrid and needs to be fixed. We DO have a standard set of things we do and don't do, the real question though is why should we have to go to those extremes. I do feel it makes us smarter players in LE RAID content, but in 6 man quests? No thank you. The list above is far from complete, but the idea is there and to be encouraged. If you want to raid there are possible ways to still get your completions. That being said, even those weren't working a few patches ago.

You're right. In many cases lag can be beaten (though when the entire party couldn't move for five minutes I'm not sure how we could've survived that).

But in most cases, I don't get frustrated and log off because the lag spikes make stuff unbeatable. I log off because it's simply not fun for me to play the game in the current state.

This has been a balance for me as a guild and raid leader. When do you push for a completion or when do you call it? When the lag is horrid and you have to balance peoples desire for completions with the possibility of people rage quitting and disappearing for however long due to frustration. We have had one of our officers beyond frustrated because his favorite builds cause an insane amount of extra lag. That's not a test of skill or teamwork, that's just broken.

I smell carp...
..lets see the 12man DOJ LE Screen captures of constant completions.. preferably with some sort of confirmation of current day(include a gnome in the party or LE Grensteel crafted item)..
.. not some old school short-manned EE raid completion..or low level LE raid where lag doesn't matter.. or pre-lag pics' from last year..

The best example of this I can think of is a raid I hosted Sunday night. Completed everything on LE/EE except for a doj. The reason was not party size makeup of another factor except the luck of abishi spawns. If we get first round abishi spawns in the middle the active trash is just too much. We will lag lock that run and possible watch each other die. We had 3 super unlucky runs all with first round mid abishi, at that point do you keep farming for a better first round instance or move on. We moved on and completed Shroud, HoX, TS, Mod with zero issues. Now do you compare that one night of bad DoJ to the countless we have completed recently? Most nights we had zero issues in DoJ as well. I can confirm OP statement of LE/EE 12 man raid completions on each raid 2 or 3 nights a week.

The lag is real. You can avoid it if you are really willing to put in the time or effort and have the patience. I just feel as a player base we shouldn't have too.


Jinx may feel different, but that's okay too. He is allowed.


/hugs bay

[lasertagbugzapper]

i agree that there is always lag...but its never been this bad before in this game. if your phone drops calls when you go through a tunnel you accept it. if it drops every call...you dont tape aluminum foil to your ear, jiggle the phone while you talk, and ask people to speak up every 3 seconds. you switch providers and get a new phone.

yes endgame content is still being completed...but its being failed alot of the time too and most of those failed runs are lag related. whether its a lag wipe or just because not enough people are on...or people dont want to wait through a ten minute spike and log off. or people dont want to change their build that they enjoy because the game is broken.

i want to view your post, senor jinx, as being positive and hoping to be helpful. but putting our head in the sand and pretending this isnt a huge issue for almost every player seems shortsighted.

this game has never had a lower population in my experience. there is a seemingly universal dissatisfaction with ddo's performance. and even normally very positive people who will raid through anything are frustrated and thinking about ducking out. the few that are left that is.

and i dont think there's anything wrong with hoping this gets fixed. because i expect there are not many players who would continue to play this game otherwise. myself included.

[royboy]

Building a roof in august. It is a hard job. It gets pretty hot up there.
Co-workers don't want to hear me cry about the heat. They know it's hot.
But we get paid to work in the heat. So you deal with it.


I pay for DDO. DDO doesn't pay me.

Hooray for you Jinx's. It awesome that you have adapted to lag

Docsin

[xprincezuman]

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