Wizard/Sorcerer Spells Little used and Little misunderstood

[Enoach]

As a long time Wizard player who has also played a Sorcerer, one thing I've noticed is that people seem to forget the Wizard's flexibility in spell selections and often times stick to a single spell set selection and tend to just get by based on this. I think part of this is simply a misunderstanding of the spells themselves. Now don't get me wrong not all spells are good all the time and some spells are niche. But as a Wizard one can afford niche when niche is needed

Grease
When most think of grease the first thing out of their mind is griefing a party. But the purpose of this spell is two fold.
1. Slow down groups of melee mobs
2. When combined with a fire source becomes a cheap lesser wall of fire
Places where this excels is in slopped dungeon areas, or narrow passages and doorways where if the first mob through is slowed it slows the ones behind it.

Obscuring Mist / Fog Cloud
This gives all creatures a 20% concealment that are inside the mist. This spell is often used on the mobs where it would be better used on the party while they range mobs. Melee fighting on the edge so as to enjoy the 20% miss chance without granting it to the mobs.

Sleep / Deep Slumber
This spell is commonly overlooked. This has more to do with the everything must die approach to completing a dungeon. However, quests that have criteria that you don’t want to kill certain mobs this spell works as an approach to keeping them out of the fight. When applied strategically this can allow you to pull mobs such as Ogres away from Wildmen miners.
These spells can also help in dungeons where you don’t need to kill a group of mobs, just need to get past them. As it helps those with or without stealth abilities.
Sleeps DCs are a bit different so depending on what you are using it on your Saves could be higher or lower than your usual Enchantment Spells – Spell’s DC minus the HD of the Target plus your Caster Level. Deep slumber does not have the same HD adjustment.
Now in a 2nd Level Quest a caster will commonly be CL4 (Many run Elite quests 2 above base). Considering a 20 caster attribute average (Newer players less, older a bit more) the DC of this spell (without heighten) will be 10 Base + 1 Spell Level + 5 Caster Bonus + 4 Caster Level = 20 minus the HD (As long as the HD are less than your caster level you will get a bonus above your Enchantment spells)

Now just a few cases in point –
The Cannith Crystal – Here as a caster you can get overwhelmed quickly towards the middle when you get multiples of 2 and 3 spawn at the same time. Use of Sleep will stop them in their tracks and allow you to then handle them one at a time.
Stealthy Repossession – I know a lot of people that hate running this quest and many that run this don’t use stealth but instead run from lever to lever trying to stay 1 step in front of Red Alert. However, if you took the approach to sprinkle Sleep (which also comes as a clickie on SDK end reward “Bottle of Sleep”) you can avoid the prophets and kill the shaman/regular kobolds without raising alert. And a sleeping kobold doesn’t attack so it won’t die to guard damage. It can also make a quest that people commonly solo much more fun in a group.
Let Sleeping Dust Lie - Deep Slumber on the Spiders. The spiders can get very jumpy and move in the way, I’ve found that Deep Slumber works well on these as it stops them in their tracks (I think this is because they are classified as Magical Beasts and not Vermin)

Cause Fear / Scare / Fear
At one point this followed the HD criteria but since then it can be a good utility spell at any level. Cause Fear being single target it has some uses when you only want to get one target.
Frightened effect –
Mob flees from you and -2 Attack/Saves/Skill/Ability checks. You just gained +2 AC and +2 DC vs the mob.
Shaken effect (on save) -
-2 Attack/Saves/Skill/Ability checks. You just gained +2 AC and +2 DC vs the mob.
Save or not you just made your next spell easier to land and you have taken some bite out of the mob. This is best used on low will save mobs. However, I have also found it useful in slowing down archers by targeting the one groups are not fighting.
Now I can understand there are people that don’t like fear type effects because the mob runs away from you. This can be bad in a couple cases. Such as all the melee are trying to chase the mob running away, or mob runs into a room agroing everything in that room too. So be careful when you apply fear as you can get more then you bargained for.

Chill Touch
Now this spell does not do a whole lot of damage, but it does drain a point of strength on living creatures. But I have found its best use is with Undead. The Fear effect it has on undead can save you when you get boxed in. Applying it to undead Archers stops them dead in their tracks. Do be careful using this as I’ve had to wait 5 minutes in Free Delera (Delera’s Tomb) because I applied chill touch to a Soul-Lock Guardian and they ran off through the barrier where we could not follow.
I have found this spell to be useful in quests like From Beyond the Grave where you need the undead to leave you alone while you light the pyres. Feared Skeletons don’t have the respawn rate of dead ones.
I do remember a long time ago in From Beyond the Grave I used Chill Touch on Deathshade and caused him to be feared – I don’t think that works anymore but my friend and guild mates had a huge laugh and dubbed me the one that even Death fears (Hehehehe)

False Life
Ok it is only up to 20 Temporary HP. But keep in mind it is a minimum of 11 Temporary HP which is still more HP then you have. Combined with other damage mitigation effects and the fact that this comes on a wand and stacks with abilities like Aid and Greater Heroism’s temporary HP effects when used in conjunction you can have a minor “Shining Through” something you need to recast before you engage. However, I’ve found that combining these types of effects is also a great way to survive a trap you need to run through, or even a gauntlet of Archers.

While wands and scrolls are not quick ways to apply this, they are cheap. 11 to 20 Temporary HP can help keep you up in situations where you have to take a few shots and your current HP pool is a bit low.

Ghoul Touch
While only useful on humanoid creatures, this is a single target hold spell. Very useful in pinning down a mob prior to releasing a volley of MM or pulling out a melee weapon, or simply setting a mob up for the party. One of my favorite tactics with this spell in content full of humanoids is to weave in and out of mobs paralyzing at will leaving a trail for the rest of the party to simply hack apart. Now obviously Mass Holds and Hold spells can be done from further away, but this particular spell it is based on Fortitude and Necromancy DC vs Will and Enchantment. This spell was very useful during my Arcane Melee phase.

Ooze Puppet
Charms an ooze similar to charm person. Useful in reducing the number of ooze you need to fight at any given time. Additionally, Living Spells found in the Sub terrain and in Revear’s refuge are also affected by this spell.

Slow
You would have thought that the reverse of Haste would have caught on as a popular spell. While Haste improves a group by 32% run speed and 15% attack speed, slow reduces run speed by 50% and attack speed by 30%. This spell also reduces AC, Attack and Reflex Saves by 1.
Places where this spell shines is verse large groups of mobs that swarm the party such as Breaking the Ranks, or slowing down attacks by archers that are out of melee reach, or in places like Lines of Supply where supply carriers are trying to run away from you.

Lesser Globe of Invulnerability / Globe of Invulnerability
These spells do stay in one place, but when fighting against casters these spells are worth their weight. Lesser Blocking up to 3rd Level and the other blocking up to 4th Level spells. Now if a spell is based on a lower level spell such as Mass Deathward it can be blocked since its single target version is a 4th level spell. Why is this important? Have you ever faced a mob that gets deathward cast on it? By casting a Globe of Invulnerability over it instant death effects can now be used. It is like having your own minor Anti magic field you can cast and remove buffs. Additionally, it can save you from being spammed stun spells. Now this spell lasts 30 seconds and can be extended. This means that a scroll will last as long as a non-extended version of this spell. This is useful as you can carry a few scrolls with you for utility and still not worry about using SP for something you are done with but it still has time on it.

Also known is how standing in a Globe also stops the effect of Bees from the Hound of Xoriat.

Feeblemind
Reduces Intelligence and Charisma to 1. While it should basically kill an arcane casters ability to cast spells, I cannot vouch that that is what happens as most of the time by the time I’ve hit one with this spell they don’t usually get more time to react as so many players target spell casters for obvious reasons. However, this spell also works well in conjunction with an Attribute damage effect be it spell or weapon effect. I’ve actually seen more Intelligence Damage effects with the new Random Loot system.

Mind Fog
Now there was a discussion awhile back where it was confirmed by development that Mind Fog only reduces the will save by -10 if they fail their will save. And I know some of you are think, well how can that be helpful if they have to fail a will save in order for me to get an advantage on will save.
If you think about it in terms of resources, there are actually a few things that can come to mind.
First, DC burst effects. There are a few abilities be they Heroic enhancement trees, or epic core abilities and even some gear that allow a temporary boost be it 6 to 20 seconds. Mind Fog last a while like most cloud based spells. Using these boosts on this type of ability means its higher DC has now made it more likely for your non-temporary boosted spells to land.
This then potentially makes it possible that you will be able to land these will saves without the need for Heighten. I know someone is going to spit their coffee at their screen at that idea, but consider that Heighten at the most adds 8 to your DC (For First Level spells) so consider how much you are spending when you still have a DC advantage. Now mind you in Legendary Elite turning off Heighten probably won’t be a good idea, but you can use those boosts on stuff that will give you more bang for the SP buck and giving you a longer chance then say negative levels at Epic.

Ray of Enfeeblement / Waves of Fatigue / Waves of Exhaustion
These don’t have a save, they do have spell penetration checks. I have found these to be very useful vs brutes most of which don’t have spell resistance. That ogre that can clean your clock with his double hit to reducing the melee power of Champions, Orange and Red Named (Seems to be bugged on purple as it should work but it doesn’t.)

Ray of Exhaustion
While these have a save, the save still applies fatigue which is a -2 debuff to Str and Dex which is a +1 to Reflex DCs as +1 AC vs that affected creature.

These spells can help out even for a non-DC focused characters as Exhaustion slows the mob down. The slower it goes the less damage it does.

Now some of these spells work even at epic levels. Enfeeblement/Waves of Fatigue/Exhaustion based on my findings are not part of the Epic Recovery. While I’ve found some Red named as well as all the Purple named appear to be immune, they are still effective against dangerous creatures. The Ray spells are good against beholders since their attributes are generally very low and slowing down their attack rate makes it safer to get closer.


Symbol Spells.
These are hard to use, but I find they are best in arena type content. This is largely because people don't pull into kill zones as a common practice during normal quest runs. Symbols have a lasting effect even after they are triggered, but you need to kite them in and out of the area of effect during that time. Symbol of Persuasion is a good way to reduce incoming damage and get mobs to fight each other, Weakness is a good way to also reduce incoming damage. Pain is good as it acts like a mass curse when used strategically.

[FranOhmsford]

As a long time Wizard player who has also played a Sorcerer, one thing I've noticed is that people seem to forget the Wizard's flexibility in spell selections and often times stick to a single spell set selection and tend to just get by based on this. I think part of this is simply a misunderstanding of the spells themselves. Now don't get me wrong not all spells are good all the time and some spells are niche. But as a Wizard one can afford niche when niche is needed

Grease
When most think of grease the first thing out of their mind is griefing a party. But the purpose of this spell is two fold.
1. Slow down groups of melee mobs
2. When combined with a fire source becomes a cheap lesser wall of fire
Places where this excels is in slopped dungeon areas, or narrow passages and doorways where if the first mob through is slowed it slows the ones behind it.

Even in those situations it's still going to grief half the party unless you also have FoM for them!

I especially hate when some zerger insists on charging through the grease trap in Spies before the Rogue can disable it!

Obscuring Mist / Fog Cloud
This gives all creatures a 20% concealment that are inside the mist. This spell is often used on the mobs where it would be better used on the party while they range mobs. Melee fighting on the edge so as to enjoy the 20% miss chance without granting it to the mobs.

And blinds the player because your character may be able to see through it but you can't!

Sleep / Deep Slumber
This spell is commonly overlooked. This has more to do with the everything must die approach to completing a dungeon. However, quests that have criteria that you don’t want to kill certain mobs this spell works as an approach to keeping them out of the fight. When applied strategically this can allow you to pull mobs such as Ogres away from Wildmen miners.
These spells can also help in dungeons where you don’t need to kill a group of mobs, just need to get past them. As it helps those with or without stealth abilities.
Sleeps DCs are a bit different so depending on what you are using it on your Saves could be higher or lower than your usual Enchantment Spells – Spell’s DC minus the HD of the Target plus your Caster Level. Deep slumber does not have the same HD adjustment.
Now in a 2nd Level Quest a caster will commonly be CL4 (Many run Elite quests 2 above base). Considering a 20 caster attribute average (Newer players less, older a bit more) the DC of this spell (without heighten) will be 10 Base + 1 Spell Level + 5 Caster Bonus + 4 Caster Level = 20 minus the HD (As long as the HD are less than your caster level you will get a bonus above your Enchantment spells)

Terrible spells - The mobs wake up the instant they're touched anyway so just use Hold/Charm/Disco instead.

Now just a few cases in point –
The Cannith Crystal – Here as a caster you can get overwhelmed quickly towards the middle when you get multiples of 2 and 3 spawn at the same time. Use of Sleep will stop them in their tracks and allow you to then handle them one at a time.

Not many Wizards and certainly no Sorcs would take Sleep as one of their first 2/3 spells - Nightshield, Expeditious and a damage spell are far more important!

Stealthy Repossession – I know a lot of people that hate running this quest and many that run this don’t use stealth but instead run from lever to lever trying to stay 1 step in front of Red Alert. However, if you took the approach to sprinkle Sleep (which also comes as a clickie on SDK end reward “Bottle of Sleep”) you can avoid the prophets and kill the shaman/regular kobolds without raising alert. And a sleeping kobold doesn’t attack so it won’t die to guard damage. It can also make a quest that people commonly solo much more fun in a group.

Kobold Prophets? What the heck is your DC?

Let Sleeping Dust Lie - Deep Slumber on the Spiders. The spiders can get very jumpy and move in the way, I’ve found that Deep Slumber works well on these as it stops them in their tracks (I think this is because they are classified as Magical Beasts and not Vermin)

See...This is a situation where most people wouldn't even consider using a spell that specifically doesn't work on Spiders. Still by this time Hold Monster is surely a better choice?

Cause Fear / Scare / Fear
At one point this followed the HD criteria but since then it can be a good utility spell at any level. Cause Fear being single target it has some uses when you only want to get one target.
Frightened effect –
Mob flees from you and -2 Attack/Saves/Skill/Ability checks. You just gained +2 AC and +2 DC vs the mob.
Shaken effect (on save) -
-2 Attack/Saves/Skill/Ability checks. You just gained +2 AC and +2 DC vs the mob.
Save or not you just made your next spell easier to land and you have taken some bite out of the mob. This is best used on low will save mobs. However, I have also found it useful in slowing down archers by targeting the one groups are not fighting.
Now I can understand there are people that don’t like fear type effects because the mob runs away from you. This can be bad in a couple cases. Such as all the melee are trying to chase the mob running away, or mob runs into a room agroing everything in that room too. So be careful when you apply fear as you can get more then you bargained for.

A lot of players loathe fear effects because of the onus on actually killing the mobs {Conquest and kill all before proceeding}.

Chill Touch
Now this spell does not do a whole lot of damage, but it does drain a point of strength on living creatures. But I have found its best use is with Undead. The Fear effect it has on undead can save you when you get boxed in. Applying it to undead Archers stops them dead in their tracks. Do be careful using this as I’ve had to wait 5 minutes in Free Delera (Delera’s Tomb) because I applied chill touch to a Soul-Lock Guardian and they ran off through the barrier where we could not follow.
I have found this spell to be useful in quests like From Beyond the Grave where you need the undead to leave you alone while you light the pyres. Feared Skeletons don’t have the respawn rate of dead ones.
I do remember a long time ago in From Beyond the Grave I used Chill Touch on Deathshade and caused him to be feared – I don’t think that works anymore but my friend and guild mates had a huge laugh and dubbed me the one that even Death fears (Hehehehe)

Too niche.

False Life
Ok it is only up to 20 Temporary HP. But keep in mind it is a minimum of 11 Temporary HP which is still more HP then you have. Combined with other damage mitigation effects and the fact that this comes on a wand and stacks with abilities like Aid and Greater Heroism’s temporary HP effects when used in conjunction you can have a minor “Shining Through” something you need to recast before you engage. However, I’ve found that combining these types of effects is also a great way to survive a trap you need to run through, or even a gauntlet of Archers.

Goes away too fast - Basically needs recasting every few seconds so little more than a waste of SP.

While wands and scrolls are not quick ways to apply this, they are cheap. 11 to 20 Temporary HP can help keep you up in situations where you have to take a few shots and your current HP pool is a bit low.

DDO is a very fast paced game - Inventory issues come into effect with wands and scrolls too.

Ghoul Touch
While only useful on humanoid creatures, this is a single target hold spell. Very useful in pinning down a mob prior to releasing a volley of MM or pulling out a melee weapon, or simply setting a mob up for the party. One of my favorite tactics with this spell in content full of humanoids is to weave in and out of mobs paralyzing at will leaving a trail for the rest of the party to simply hack apart. Now obviously Mass Holds and Hold spells can be done from further away, but this particular spell it is based on Fortitude and Necromancy DC vs Will and Enchantment. This spell was very useful during my Arcane Melee phase.

Touch Spells are great in PnP but very difficult to make useful in DDO - You're clearly a very good player with superb defenses and twitch skills if you can weave in and out of mobs paralyzing them with this.

And if you're that good a player why are you not simply maxing your aoe DPS as a Caster? Even as a Melee Wizard you should have maximise/Empower and Fireball/Firewall or Acid Blast/Acid Rain.

Ooze Puppet
Charms an ooze similar to charm person. Useful in reducing the number of ooze you need to fight at any given time. Additionally, Living Spells found in the Sub terrain and in Revear’s refuge are also affected by this spell.

Again way too niche.

Slow
You would have thought that the reverse of Haste would have caught on as a popular spell. While Haste improves a group by 32% run speed and 15% attack speed, slow reduces run speed by 50% and attack speed by 30%. This spell also reduces AC, Attack and Reflex Saves by 1.
Places where this spell shines is verse large groups of mobs that swarm the party such as Breaking the Ranks, or slowing down attacks by archers that are out of melee reach, or in places like Lines of Supply where supply carriers are trying to run away from you.

I've found it doesn't work on mobs that well - Maybe this is another case where your DC is way better than mine.

Lesser Globe of Invulnerability / Globe of Invulnerability
These spells do stay in one place, but when fighting against casters these spells are worth their weight. Lesser Blocking up to 3rd Level and the other blocking up to 4th Level spells. Now if a spell is based on a lower level spell such as Mass Deathward it can be blocked since its single target version is a 4th level spell. Why is this important? Have you ever faced a mob that gets deathward cast on it? By casting a Globe of Invulnerability over it instant death effects can now be used. It is like having your own minor Anti magic field you can cast and remove buffs. Additionally, it can save you from being spammed stun spells. Now this spell lasts 30 seconds and can be extended. This means that a scroll will last as long as a non-extended version of this spell. This is useful as you can carry a few scrolls with you for utility and still not worry about using SP for something you are done with but it still has time on it.

How often do you stand still to fight in DDO?

These Globes are simply too small.

Also known is how standing in a Globe also stops the effect of Bees from the Hound of Xoriat.

Yes this is a good use for it but very niche.

Feeblemind
Reduces Intelligence and Charisma to 1. While it should basically kill an arcane casters ability to cast spells, I cannot vouch that that is what happens as most of the time by the time I’ve hit one with this spell they don’t usually get more time to react as so many players target spell casters for obvious reasons. However, this spell also works well in conjunction with an Attribute damage effect be it spell or weapon effect. I’ve actually seen more Intelligence Damage effects with the new Random Loot system.

One of those spells that annoyingly works great on us but against mobs not so much.

Mind Fog
Now there was a discussion awhile back where it was confirmed by development that Mind Fog only reduces the will save by -10 if they fail their will save. And I know some of you are think, well how can that be helpful if they have to fail a will save in order for me to get an advantage on will save.
If you think about it in terms of resources, there are actually a few things that can come to mind.
First, DC burst effects. There are a few abilities be they Heroic enhancement trees, or epic core abilities and even some gear that allow a temporary boost be it 6 to 20 seconds. Mind Fog last a while like most cloud based spells. Using these boosts on this type of ability means its higher DC has now made it more likely for your non-temporary boosted spells to land.
This then potentially makes it possible that you will be able to land these will saves without the need for Heighten. I know someone is going to spit their coffee at their screen at that idea, but consider that Heighten at the most adds 8 to your DC (For First Level spells) so consider how much you are spending when you still have a DC advantage. Now mind you in Legendary Elite turning off Heighten probably won’t be a good idea, but you can use those boosts on stuff that will give you more bang for the SP buck and giving you a longer chance then say negative levels at Epic.

This is one of those situations where a spell I'd be happy to cast in PnP really annoys me in DDO!

The problem here is the spell point mechanic!

I loathe the very idea that a Wizard/Sorc in DDO should have to use 2-4 debuffs before casting his actual damaging/CC or Instakill spells!
Why?
Because of the sheer cost in SPs!

In PnP where you have to choose your spells and only get one per day of each unless you choose a single spell multiple times this is a spell that would be a good choice in certain situations but in DDO it's a no-no!

Ray of Enfeeblement / Waves of Fatigue / Waves of Exhaustion
These don’t have a save, they do have spell penetration checks. I have found these to be very useful vs brutes most of which don’t have spell resistance. That ogre that can clean your clock with his double hit to reducing the melee power of Champions, Orange and Red Named (Seems to be bugged on purple as it should work but it doesn’t.)

Why waste SP reducing that Ogre's str when the same amount of SP will kill it outright?

Ray of Exhaustion
While these have a save, the save still applies fatigue which is a -2 debuff to Str and Dex which is a +1 to Reflex DCs as +1 AC vs that affected creature.

Again - Why waste the SP when Scorching Ray or any number of other damaging spells will kill the creature?

If you need a debuff to land those damaging spells then go with an AOE debuff over a single target one.

[Tricosene]

Thank you for the ideas on some of these seldom used spells. I do find myself using the same few spells over and over and forgetting about what else is on my hotbars... let alone in my spellbook. I'll have to play with some of these. I'm not sure I even have sleep in my spellbook.

Since symbols don't go off until a mob activates them, I use them when I have a boss fight where you get swarmed with mobs and where the fighting doesn't start until you talk to the boss, such as a lesson in deception. You can cast the symbol, buff, then start the battle.

If you have a shrine and know that a fight is ahead, you can cast the symbol, rest, then jump into the fight with a full blue bar (think Devil Assault, also in Servants of the Overlord, where there's shrines followed by a hole to the next level - I'll cast the symbol down below, then hit the shrine.)

By the way, I've been thinking about the Globe of Invulnerability lately. It worked so well in Baldur's Gate, I've wanted to try it out for old time's sake. I'll have to pick up a scroll. And a hamster.

[Enoach]

Your comments...

FranOhmsford we obviously play the same game differently. Sure groups today will still use the hack/slash method of moving forward and "winning" a quest. But as noted by your scorching ray comment as well as your comment on the Sleep spell you seem to have missed the point that one sleep spell can mean you don't have to fight those mobs and that is less expensive then 3 to 5 casts of scorching ray. But as noted it is a different approach to completing a quest.

Now you also seem to jump past my comment on the Globes of Invulnerability, and again this is most likely because of how you play that you don't actually even consider how long you do stand still while you fight or even how tight a circle you can stay within. I play more a controller and tank style, I do have characters that work best on the move, but as such I have found these globes are a good way to remove the buffs that are helping a mob survive. And a 30 second to 60 second trap I can kite mobs into so I can Wail or Circle of Death them or even use a vorpal on a low dps character means I get to save SP because now I'm not having to use DPS spells.

As for my comments on the enfeeblement, exhaustion and such. Again sure a Scorching Ray can potentially kill a Beholder before it sees you, but that is only one approach, and it puts a lot of eggs in a single basket so to speak.

Again, thank you for your comments. Honestly I expected disagreement as no one really plays this game the same way even with the same build options. But at the same time, using the spells as I've outlined has allowed me to complete quests with groups where others have said that it was not possible because your HP needs to be this big and you need to have N number of resources to do it.

[Enoach]

Thank you for the ideas on some of these seldom used spells. I do find myself using the same few spells over and over and forgetting about what else is on my hotbars... let alone in my spellbook. I'll have to play with some of these. I'm not sure I even have sleep in my spellbook.

Since symbols don't go off until a mob activates them, I use them when I have a boss fight where you get swarmed with mobs and where the fighting doesn't start until you talk to the boss, such as a lesson in deception. You can cast the symbol, buff, then start the battle.

If you have a shrine and know that a fight is ahead, you can cast the symbol, rest, then jump into the fight with a full blue bar (think Devil Assault, also in Servants of the Overlord, where there's shrines followed by a hole to the next level - I'll cast the symbol down below, then hit the shrine.)

By the way, I've been thinking about the Globe of Invulnerability lately. It worked so well in Baldur's Gate, I've wanted to try it out for old time's sake. I'll have to pick up a scroll. And a hamster.

Glad to hear I have at least one person rethinking the spells. As a Note the Sleep spell works well in lower level dungeons, but once you have Deep Slumber I recommend this, especially since the HD of mobs starts to inflate rapidly and Deep Slumber does not have that as part of its DC calculation. Again, I've found this spell to good especially in quests that have a must not kill component. I have found the rings made by holds tends to attract melee and with the extra damage done on holds it can be too late before they realize they are hitting the wrong thing. With sleep the helpless ends when they are awake. so at worst they take a single hit with extra damage.

[Faltout]

Grease
When most think of grease the first thing out of their mind is griefing a party. But the purpose of this spell is two fold.
1. Slow down groups of melee mobs
2. When combined with a fire source becomes a cheap lesser wall of fire
Places where this excels is in slopped dungeon areas, or narrow passages and doorways where if the first mob through is slowed it slows the ones behind it.

Indeed a nice spell. Reason I don't slot it is that 1. It annoys party members, 2. Monsters tend to ignore laws of physics. They will move above a wall they couldn't possibly move, they will jump while greased getting out of it, some will be totally unaffected by grease. I'll need to cast at least 5 greases in a row to create an area somewhat effective with monsters. 3. Using it in an slopped area is too situational. I can't get the party to fight on that spot.

Obscuring Mist / Fog Cloud
This gives all creatures a 20% concealment that are inside the mist. This spell is often used on the mobs where it would be better used on the party while they range mobs. Melee fighting on the edge so as to enjoy the 20% miss chance without granting it to the mobs.

The melees not being able to see clearly when fighting monsters is far too great of a disadvantage for the 20% miss chance it provides. Besides, if I'm the cleric casting obscuring mist, I'd also have the means to heal that 20% extra miss chance.

Sleep / Deep Slumber
This spell is commonly overlooked. This has more to do with the everything must die approach to completing a dungeon. However, quests that have criteria that you don’t want to kill certain mobs this spell works as an approach to keeping them out of the fight. When applied strategically this can allow you to pull mobs such as Ogres away from Wildmen miners.
These spells can also help in dungeons where you don’t need to kill a group of mobs, just need to get past them. As it helps those with or without stealth abilities.
Sleeps DCs are a bit different so depending on what you are using it on your Saves could be higher or lower than your usual Enchantment Spells – Spell’s DC minus the HD of the Target plus your Caster Level. Deep slumber does not have the same HD adjustment.
Now in a 2nd Level Quest a caster will commonly be CL4 (Many run Elite quests 2 above base). Considering a 20 caster attribute average (Newer players less, older a bit more) the DC of this spell (without heighten) will be 10 Base + 1 Spell Level + 5 Caster Bonus + 4 Caster Level = 20 minus the HD (As long as the HD are less than your caster level you will get a bonus above your Enchantment spells)

I think the DC for those spells is far too low to use anywhere that matters. If I can make spiders in sleeping dust sleep, then I can make them dance. I can certainly not make kobolds (and especially prophets) sleep but I can make them charmed or hypnotized or dancing.
Why would you get sleep as your first spell instead of hypnotism? or charm?

Oh, and btw, the monsters' CR in elite quests are always higher than your level

Cause Fear / Scare / Fear
At one point this followed the HD criteria but since then it can be a good utility spell at any level. Cause Fear being single target it has some uses when you only want to get one target.
Frightened effect –
Mob flees from you and -2 Attack/Saves/Skill/Ability checks. You just gained +2 AC and +2 DC vs the mob.
Shaken effect (on save) -
-2 Attack/Saves/Skill/Ability checks. You just gained +2 AC and +2 DC vs the mob.
Save or not you just made your next spell easier to land and you have taken some bite out of the mob. This is best used on low will save mobs. However, I have also found it useful in slowing down archers by targeting the one groups are not fighting.
Now I can understand there are people that don’t like fear type effects because the mob runs away from you. This can be bad in a couple cases. Such as all the melee are trying to chase the mob running away, or mob runs into a room agroing everything in that room too. So be careful when you apply fear as you can get more then you bargained for.

Me and my necromancer wizard totally agree with you. When monster fortitude was too great to overcome (that started happening at... EE Gianthold), I used fear to target their will save and lower their fortitude save. Also to CC since I could not instakill anymore.

Chill Touch
Now this spell does not do a whole lot of damage, but it does drain a point of strength on living creatures. But I have found its best use is with Undead. The Fear effect it has on undead can save you when you get boxed in. Applying it to undead Archers stops them dead in their tracks. Do be careful using this as I’ve had to wait 5 minutes in Free Delera (Delera’s Tomb) because I applied chill touch to a Soul-Lock Guardian and they ran off through the barrier where we could not follow.
I have found this spell to be useful in quests like From Beyond the Grave where you need the undead to leave you alone while you light the pyres. Feared Skeletons don’t have the respawn rate of dead ones.
I do remember a long time ago in From Beyond the Grave I used Chill Touch on Deathshade and caused him to be feared – I don’t think that works anymore but my friend and guild mates had a huge laugh and dubbed me the one that even Death fears (Hehehehe)

Using it as a fear effect? Hm, it has a save you know. And why use that instead of halt undead that is an AOE and doesn't make the undead scared? (And is higher level spell, meaning higher DC) My necromancer totally abused the SLA with maximize and empower for good cheap damage.

False Life
Ok it is only up to 20 Temporary HP. But keep in mind it is a minimum of 11 Temporary HP which is still more HP then you have. Combined with other damage mitigation effects and the fact that this comes on a wand and stacks with abilities like Aid and Greater Heroism’s temporary HP effects when used in conjunction you can have a minor “Shining Through” something you need to recast before you engage. However, I’ve found that combining these types of effects is also a great way to survive a trap you need to run through, or even a gauntlet of Archers.

While wands and scrolls are not quick ways to apply this, they are cheap. 11 to 20 Temporary HP can help keep you up in situations where you have to take a few shots and your current HP pool is a bit low.

So you can only use it to pass traps. Situations where you'd like your max HP to be higher. Sure, it's a valid use. But I need to carry a ton of stuff in my bags and having false life and aid in there does not help. I'd rather carry more heal scrolls, waves of exhaustion, displacement scrolls, true seeing scrolls, GH scrolls, Tenser's scrolls, Greater Dispell scrolls and a couple more scrolls that I always wanted to carry but never had the space.

Ghoul Touch
While only useful on humanoid creatures, this is a single target hold spell. Very useful in pinning down a mob prior to releasing a volley of MM or pulling out a melee weapon, or simply setting a mob up for the party. One of my favorite tactics with this spell in content full of humanoids is to weave in and out of mobs paralyzing at will leaving a trail for the rest of the party to simply hack apart. Now obviously Mass Holds and Hold spells can be done from further away, but this particular spell it is based on Fortitude and Necromancy DC vs Will and Enchantment. This spell was very useful during my Arcane Melee phase.

My necromancer used that spell a great deal in low levels. Fortitude save (instead of will that is the hold person) AND helpless damage. Basically, in Freshen the Air, I went straight for the shamans, casted ghoul touch and then maximized empowered chill touch. Took care of them. At higher levels I don't feel like going near monsters and I have death spells that target the same save instead. I still used it for some deathwarded humanoids.

Ooze Puppet
Charms an ooze similar to charm person. Useful in reducing the number of ooze you need to fight at any given time. Additionally, Living Spells found in the Sub terrain and in Revear’s refuge are also affected by this spell.

Why would you want to reduce the number of oozes? Just split all the oozes and then throw 2 AOEs and you're done. Other than that, semi-useful spell. I don't slot it because it's transmutaion and my DC would be low.

Slow
You would have thought that the reverse of Haste would have caught on as a popular spell. While Haste improves a group by 32% run speed and 15% attack speed, slow reduces run speed by 50% and attack speed by 30%. This spell also reduces AC, Attack and Reflex Saves by 1.
Places where this spell shines is verse large groups of mobs that swarm the party such as Breaking the Ranks, or slowing down attacks by archers that are out of melee reach, or in places like Lines of Supply where supply carriers are trying to run away from you.

Slow is great if you are transmutation based. If not, it never works.

Lesser Globe of Invulnerability / Globe of Invulnerability
These spells do stay in one place, but when fighting against casters these spells are worth their weight. Lesser Blocking up to 3rd Level and the other blocking up to 4th Level spells. Now if a spell is based on a lower level spell such as Mass Deathward it can be blocked since its single target version is a 4th level spell. Why is this important? Have you ever faced a mob that gets deathward cast on it? By casting a Globe of Invulnerability over it instant death effects can now be used. It is like having your own minor Anti magic field you can cast and remove buffs. Additionally, it can save you from being spammed stun spells. Now this spell lasts 30 seconds and can be extended. This means that a scroll will last as long as a non-extended version of this spell. This is useful as you can carry a few scrolls with you for utility and still not worry about using SP for something you are done with but it still has time on it.

Also known is how standing in a Globe also stops the effect of Bees from the Hound of Xoriat.

You would never want to slot that. Why waste a spell slot instead of taking some scrolls with you for the rare cases where you may need the sphere.
And those rare cases are when you only face casters and not melee (in which case you need to run around) and when facing xy'zzy. That's all.

Feeblemind
Reduces Intelligence and Charisma to 1. While it should basically kill an arcane casters ability to cast spells, I cannot vouch that that is what happens as most of the time by the time I’ve hit one with this spell they don’t usually get more time to react as so many players target spell casters for obvious reasons. However, this spell also works well in conjunction with an Attribute damage effect be it spell or weapon effect. I’ve actually seen more Intelligence Damage effects with the new Random Loot system.

I don't know how well this works. It's an enchantment spell with a will save meaning you're probably not using it on casters and you can use hold instead. I have this view that attribute damaging effects on monsters do not have ANY effect unless you plan on making them helpless. A brute with 10 negative levels and 14 lower STR than before will deal the same amount of damage as in full health. A caster with 10 negative levels will still have the same SR as before. A caster with 1 INT and 1 CHA may still be able to cast spells (don't know, haven't tried but my guess is they still can). So, unless saves are lowered or monsters are getting helpless, I see everything else as a waste of time and sp.

Mind Fog
Now there was a discussion awhile back where it was confirmed by development that Mind Fog only reduces the will save by -10 if they fail their will save. And I know some of you are think, well how can that be helpful if they have to fail a will save in order for me to get an advantage on will save.
If you think about it in terms of resources, there are actually a few things that can come to mind.
First, DC burst effects. There are a few abilities be they Heroic enhancement trees, or epic core abilities and even some gear that allow a temporary boost be it 6 to 20 seconds. Mind Fog last a while like most cloud based spells. Using these boosts on this type of ability means its higher DC has now made it more likely for your non-temporary boosted spells to land.
This then potentially makes it possible that you will be able to land these will saves without the need for Heighten. I know someone is going to spit their coffee at their screen at that idea, but consider that Heighten at the most adds 8 to your DC (For First Level spells) so consider how much you are spending when you still have a DC advantage. Now mind you in Legendary Elite turning off Heighten probably won’t be a good idea, but you can use those boosts on stuff that will give you more bang for the SP buck and giving you a longer chance then say negative levels at Epic.

I don't know why you place this with the rarely used spells. It's one of the frequently used.

Ray of Enfeeblement / Waves of Fatigue / Waves of Exhaustion
These don’t have a save, they do have spell penetration checks. I have found these to be very useful vs brutes most of which don’t have spell resistance. That ogre that can clean your clock with his double hit to reducing the melee power of Champions, Orange and Red Named (Seems to be bugged on purple as it should work but it doesn’t.)

Those are being used, but the results are not clear.

Ray of Exhaustion
While these have a save, the save still applies fatigue which is a -2 debuff to Str and Dex which is a +1 to Reflex DCs as +1 AC vs that affected creature.

-2 STR and DEX are irrelevant. Even if they were -(max - 1). How do you know it lowers the DCs of their abilities. It was my understanding that monster abilities were hard coded and only specific parts can get adjusted. Damage is independent of STR. to-hit value is dependent on the monster's CR, not its STR. their saves are dependent on the monster's CR + some scaling formula + hard coded bonuses from devs.

Monsters are NOT player characters in DDO and thus those assumptions about cause and effect are wrong.

[dunklezhan]

Lol 'too niche'. Funny, Fran - of course they're niche that's the whole point of the thread: you are playing a wizard and can afford to mix it up. There's a lot in there that is solid new player advice, and good reminders for veteran wizards - this stuff can be useful to plan ahead with. I often fall into the trap of loading up a few decent generically useful spells. Then find myself wondering as most of my important DCs spells don't land anyway why I don't just play a sorc. Reminders about debuffs are useful. I didn't know the save on Mind Fog wasn't automatic, for example, I thought it was like an uber Hypnotise passive because its such a higher level spell so I haven't been heightening it (that'll teach me to read the spell description more carefully I guess). Heightening that but not the charms/CC I intend to use afterwards is much more sensible if it'll make the debuff actually work.

The tip about sleeping dust is even good for vets although on that point I do agree with Fran: you wouldn't normally even try it because vermin should be immune to mind effects, but when you think about it, of course - they can't be vermin, vermin are mindless and the whole point is they are intelligent spiders*. Hadn't occurred to me, for sure.

Also - don't forget low level summon monster scrolls or the trusty flaming sphere scrolls for aggro pulls to get lots of mobs in a nice tight group before dropping the AOE, or just to get mobs out the way so you can get past.




*on that logic, by the way, Warforged should not technically be constructs. But then even in pen and paper Warforged were always a bit "hand-wavey GM fiat nothing to see here".

[Saekee]

you forgot flaming sphere!

[Wipey]

Clouds yes, wherever it would make a difference. Obscuring Mist, Cloudkill, whatever. It's really old school.
Ooze puppet, perhaps for Etk.

The rest is terrible and waste of spellpoints, sorry. Pk, Pwk, Finger, Circle, Wail, Enervation SLA, Prismatic Spray, Undead to Death.
Web, Disco, Mass Hold, Hypno, pws, Oid for cc.
Fb, dbf, Otiluke, Polar, Necro ray, level 5 dots.

These days any okay build caster with simple 6 stat item and some random junk is way above the no fail DCs in heroics.

It is perhaps a reaction from the other thread where it's been said that sadly dps is solution to everything but it's really true.
If you have DCs for those "niche" spells, then you have DC for spells that actually help make quest go faster and easier.

People don't like it perhaps, and often don't realize what class does actually make a difference with a weaker group but first and foremost "role" when I play my wiz or fvs is to remove dangerous mobs asap from the equation. If I can't kill it, then I cc it. If I can't cc it then I heal and buff.

Why'd you ever sleep spiders when you can Pwk, pk, Finger, Destro, Slay or whatever all the ogres immediately.
There's a place for cc, in elite Shroud, Toee or MoD or I will mass hold every moving thing when I have 2 super Blitzers with me but otherwise, it's killing time.

Wizard does one thing really well - kills trash fast.

[Tricosene]

Enoach,

Can you explain more about when you would choose Ray of Enfeeblement / Waves of Fatigue / Waves of Exhaustion over casting a hold / dance / stun type spell? I'm DC focused, so most of my necro and charm spells land, so maybe it doesn't apply as much to me. Although you did mention champions and red named mobs - this might be where I need to start applying these spells.

Have you tried Feeblemind on a caster boss? Granted stat scores in epic apparently recover quickly, but still. When I get to Haunted Halls, I'll have to slot this spell and try it out on Whisper & co.

Sorry that you're getting all the moar DPS folks naysaying your thread.

[Enoach]

Enoach,

Can you explain more about when you would choose Ray of Enfeeblement / Waves of Fatigue / Waves of Exhaustion over casting a hold / dance / stun type spell? I'm DC focused, so most of my necro and charm spells land, so maybe it doesn't apply as much to me. Although you did mention champions and red named mobs - this might be where I need to start applying these spells.

Have you tried Feeblemind on a caster boss? Granted stat scores in epic apparently recover quickly, but still. When I get to Haunted Halls, I'll have to slot this spell and try it out on Whisper & co.

Sorry that you're getting all the moar DPS folks naysaying your thread.

The Enfeeblement/Fatigue/Exhaustion work best on champion/orange named, vermin and in places like Temple of Elemental Evil where auto Freedom of Movement is common and holds don't work. Now the attribute effects are suppose to work on Red and Purple named mobs - Not the speed reduction but the attribute damage. However, I can confirm that there are Red named and All Purple named seem Immune to these effects completely. I will also use the wave spells in places where the party needs to make a tactical retreat, or in quests like Lines of Supply where you can slow a group down that is running away from you.

Now, with Feeblemind in theory it should stop a caster from casting if their primary attribute is Intelligence or Charisma - I'm not 100% sure that is working on mobs - I know it works on Players. However, the new loot gen system seems to include weapons that apply Intelligence damage, so in combination with one of these it can be a quick way to get to stun.

I expected the comments and these spells are not for them, it is their choice after all. It is fun to see comments about wasting SP, especially since using many of these spells would actually save them the SP they are currently using.

There was a comment made that this was in response to a DPS thread. Actually that wasn't what triggered this, what triggered this was running this weekend and hearing several wizards comment on drinking 30 mnemonic potions to get through a section of a quest. To me that is a serious drinking problem, and my feeling is it is because players don't consider their spells when they choose content and for a wizard that is actually pretty sad especially since the whole spell book is available to use. Or even switch at the next shrine.

Another made a comment asking about my DCs. In many places the simple solution is swapping to the right focus gear. A single DC can make a big difference in low level quests. Melee are expected to switch to optimize, casters are no different.

[Enoach]

Finally was able to confirm this - Used it on a Mindrender the only action it took after that was to swipe at me with its bare hands - lasted about 1 minute 15 seconds. Once it broke it went full force spell casting.

So the biggest issue with this spell is simply timing - Parties don't notice this because they have already plowed over the caster...

Also note, this spell does not work on Red named - It is most likely because the max attribute damage is 10 on Red and Purple. So instead of an instant -10 they get immune.

[merlinfire1]

perhaps some of these spells should be re-evaluated by the designers

[Careall]

Mind Fog
Now there was a discussion awhile back where it was confirmed by development that Mind Fog only reduces the will save by -10 if they fail their will save. And I know some of you are think, well how can that be helpful if they have to fail a will save in order for me to get an advantage on will save.
If you think about it in terms of resources, there are actually a few things that can come to mind.
First, DC burst effects. There are a few abilities be they Heroic enhancement trees, or epic core abilities and even some gear that allow a temporary boost be it 6 to 20 seconds. Mind Fog last a while like most cloud based spells. Using these boosts on this type of ability means its higher DC has now made it more likely for your non-temporary boosted spells to land.
This then potentially makes it possible that you will be able to land these will saves without the need for Heighten. I know someone is going to spit their coffee at their screen at that idea, but consider that Heighten at the most adds 8 to your DC (For First Level spells) so consider how much you are spending when you still have a DC advantage. Now mind you in Legendary Elite turning off Heighten probably won’t be a good idea, but you can use those boosts on stuff that will give you more bang for the SP buck and giving you a longer chance then say negative levels at Epic.

The real benefit of Mind Fog is that it's a debuff AOE that sticks around for a while. This means you can run through it a few times and mobs chasing you have to make saving throws each time they re-enter. Even at 50%, 3-4 saves in a row has a good chance of debuffing at least once. You can also hit a group of enemies with hypnotism for small and short Will debuff even if they make their saves, and hypnotism is the first core Enchantment SLA in the Archmage tree. Symbol of Death can be used to drain levels in the same AOE, and use Cloud Kill to damage Con and reduce Fort saves so they fail the Symbol of Death save. My typical AOE massive debuff includes Ice Storm (damage, slow, and -hit chance), Solid Fog (combined with Ice Storm really slows things down), Mind Fog, Dancing Ball, Cloud Kill, and either Symbol fo Death or Symbol of Persuasion (don't use this with the dancing ball). Run through this toxic cloud a few times for the best results. Situationally, this setup won't work against anything tossing spells/abilities that dispel cloud areas (most notably, Cyclonic Blast).