The latest on lag and game performance improvements

[Steve_Howe]

We are in the process of getting out a patch that will hopefully include a fix to guild renown lag. Since gauging our success in fixing the issue is challenging outside of the real, live world environment, we don't want to say we've fixed it until we hear from you that it's fixed and seen it ourselves while running things like Legendary Shroud. That said, we - think - we've discovered and corrected the issue, which involved sluggish guild renown SQL communication in our virtualized environment.

If all goes according to plan, the patch will be out later this week, and will include a few other additions like the two new enhancements to the Fighter Kensei tree. We'll have more info, including a downtime announcement and release notes, as we get things confirmed in the next 24-48 hours.

Very nice to hear. Thanks Cordo!

BTW...the fix for the guild renown lag should help DoJ even more than it helps the Shroud. Looking forward to it!

[Atheok]

We are in the process of getting out a patch that will hopefully include a fix to guild renown lag.

Glad to hear that. Until then, this is my latest experience in LH Shroud. Back to back runs, 11 people vs full group. Highlights below.

[Eth]

Figured we should end the week with a bit of a status report:

We did work this week to improve game performance in Defiler of the Just, and at least initially the results seem quite positive. We will be able to say more definitively on both this and other improvements as time goes on; it's true that we rebooted the worlds yesterday, so we'll be monitoring how things change over time.

Yesterday, we ran some tech on Argonnessen that is being looked at to see if it delivers on smoothing out server spikes. The tech has some issues (like breaking Von4), but if the data shows a significant improvement, we'll do further work to remove these issues before putting the tech in place.

Overall, lag in parties and smaller raid groups is greatly improved over what it was, say, a month ago. We're continuing to work on identifying and resolving sources of lag, including an investigation into the so-called "guild renown lag".

That's great news, especially since you seem to have found the cause and fix the actual problem instead of doing some workaround.

[Atheok]

I might be off topic with this, or not. I mean, I die to lag in the end, although to a different kind of lag - Not Guild Renown Maybe you guys want to have a look on Citw because I don't find this normal at all.
But this is what happened. I died, released and reentered, due to afk. It was "Destroy the Legs" part. I got teleported to Ana's laying down spot, as the raid does it while in this phase and you try to get to platform, or back to the platform in my case. I didn't noticed at first all the bebs around Ana, which was parked down the ramp, I just thought it was one or two, so I continued to destroy legs until i had 1 left, as you can see in the objective as well. Then I thought I should kill those 2 or ok, say 3 cuz I knew I had to clear that up either way to get Ana. I could hear a weird noise all the time I spend killing extra legs, and Lolth kept on sacrificing spiders even tho she wasn't even up for the 2nd beat-down. Which again was odd. It was like a chorus of angry mobs noise, coming from down the ramp And what happens next, you can see it in the video.



edit: my favorite part is when they form a line to go back down

[Faltout]

I might be off topic with this, or not. I mean, I die to lag in the end, although to a different kind of lag - Not Guild Renown Maybe you guys want to have a look on Citw because I don't find this normal at all.
But this is what happened. I died, released and reentered, due to afk. It was "Destroy the Legs" part. I got teleported to Ana's laying down spot, as the raid does it while in this phase and you try to get to platform, or back to the platform in my case. I didn't noticed at first all the bebs around Ana, which was parked down the ramp, I just thought it was one or two, so I continued to destroy legs until i had 1 left, as you can see in the objective as well. Then I thought I should kill those 2 or ok, say 3 cuz I knew I had to clear that up either way to get Ana. I could hear a weird noise all the time I spend killing extra legs, and Lolth kept on sacrificing spiders even tho she wasn't even up for the 2nd beat-down. Which again was odd. It was like a chorus of angry mobs noise, coming from down the ramp And what happens next, you can see it in the video.

edit: my favorite part is when they form a line to go back down

Look at the wiki page: http://ddowiki.com/page/Caught_in_the_Web. Last tip.

If during the Leg phase you don't manage to kill legs and attract Lolth's attention, she might aggro on Ana and if she is too far away she will have Bebelith Souls spawned on her.

This behavior is intended. Also Lolth sacrificing spiders while she's not there? But she is there, in her spider form. And one of her attacks is Soul Summoning: http://ddowiki.com/page/Lolth's_Immanence

If you're trying to run CitW solo, it's probably not a good idea to station Ana down there unless you have very good DPS with the legs (keeping her aggro).

P.S. If you are running EE or EH can you see what Lolth's intimidate DC is and update the wiki?

[Atheok]

Look at the wiki page: http://ddowiki.com/page/Caught_in_the_Web. Last tip.

Thanks for the tip, I totally missed that out. But either way, how many beb souls can Lolth spawn? Is there even a max number? Whats the point having 100 beb souls in there? For example someone does have the dips, how is it possible to fight so many bebs without lag? well in my case, and i didn't count them, i think there were near 20-30.. and you can see in the video that I die to lag. I assume it's because there were too many mobs, the instance just couldn't handle it anymore.

This behavior is intended. Also Lolth sacrificing spiders while she's not there? But she is there, in her spider form. And one of her attacks is Soul Summoning: http://ddowiki.com/page/Lolth's_Immanence

Yes, it was more of a remark for myself, didn't saw that before tbh. While she is not present.

If you're trying to run CitW solo, it's probably not a good idea to station Ana down there unless you have very good DPS with the legs (keeping her aggro).

My issue isn't about dps necessarily, altho I'll take the tip with Ana, in my case I just wanted fast normal completions. My point is that most of the raids have a lockout point. Citw, as few others, doesn't. So I guess in this matter we are lucky enough if we die to leg kick or anything else in that phase, to have the opportunity to reenter. But in the same time, I believe the content should be playable in all means. Otherwise, just lock the raid. What's the point?
Just out of curiosity, and because I like challenges turbine throws at me through lag, I released and went back in after all that. I just wanted to get tp to Ana's initial spot, kill the last leg without disturbing any bebs, kill Lolth, wait for the hand to disappear and deal with bebs after... my face when tp didn't worked, cuz Ana was dead i think... my face when all the bebs aggroed me at the tp point... (video on my youtube)
So maybe there is something to look at in here? Or maybe just leave it as it is and say is WAI. When it's actually acting wrong...

[Faltout]

Thanks for the tip, I totally missed that out.

Totally normal to miss that since I only recently updated the wiki on CitW. Before, the only tips were : ana can spawn shrines.

But either way, how many beb souls can Lolth spawn? Is there even a max number? Whats the point having 100 beb souls in there? For example someone does have the dips, how is it possible to fight so many bebs without lag? well in my case, and i didn't count them, i think there were near 20-30.. and you can see in the video that I die to lag. I assume it's because there were too many mobs, the instance just couldn't handle it anymore.

Yes, the point when running it as intended (with full party) is not to leave lolth hanging. The DPS is to kill legs before they go underground, not to kill the bebeliths that spawn. Bebeliths should not spawn if you keep lolth's aggro in check.

My issue isn't about dps necessarily, altho I'll take the tip with Ana, in my case I just wanted fast normal completions. My point is that most of the raids have a lockout point. Citw, as few others, doesn't. So I guess in this matter we are lucky enough if we die to leg kick or anything else in that phase, to have the opportunity to reenter. But in the same time, I believe the content should be playable in all means. Otherwise, just lock the raid. What's the point?

If Ana is not down there when you die and reenter, the souls will not spawn. Bebelith souls are the equivalent of spell wards during the leg phase.

Just out of curiosity, and because I like challenges turbine throws at me through lag, I released and went back in after all that. I just wanted to get tp to Ana's initial spot, kill the last leg without disturbing any bebs, kill Lolth, wait for the hand to disappear and deal with bebs after... my face when tp didn't worked, cuz Ana was dead i think... my face when all the bebs aggroed me at the tp point... (video on my youtube)
So maybe there is something to look at in here? Or maybe just leave it as it is and say is WAI. When it's actually acting wrong...

Hm, don't understand what exactly did you do, but if ana is dead and everyone else is also dead, the fight with Lolth is non-existent and the teleporting barrier goes down.

[Atheok]

If Ana is not down there when you die and reenter, the souls will not spawn. Bebelith souls are the equivalent of spell wards during the leg phase.

I understand that it can all be avoided. Tho u can't lag out due to infinite spell wards. Or let me rephrase that. I haven't seen as many spell wards as bebs to make the content unplayable. And hopefully I won't get that chance either. But that still doesn't state that all runs must be done with Ana on platform; one way only. If that is the case, then the mechanics should prevent us to take her down the ramp, right?
Now, if we do take her down the ramp, my question isn't why we get certain inconveniences like spell wards or beb souls...I totally agree with that part... But rather why can this further on lag out an entire session due to an uncontrollable amount of beb, spider and drow souls spawn? When it should all be under control. Yes, sure, make it harder! Just don't make it lag impossible! Cuz I don't think or at least I don't want to think that lag is wai.

[Cordovan]

Please let us know if you are still seeing lag from guild renown, and any other lag-related experiences you are encountering AFTER today's patch.

[CEastwood]

Hit finish in The Tide Turns and dumped to desktop. Relogged then 30 s later frozen and dumped to desktop in House D. No issues whatsoever before the update.

[Atheok]

Please let us know if you are still seeing lag from guild renown, and any other lag-related experiences you are encountering AFTER today's patch.

I don't want to speak too soon, but I can't say I don't see the improvements. After 1 run in Doj with 11 ppl, there were some small rubble-bandings and freezes here and there, but none of them were caused by guild renown. Overall this run was 90% less frustrating and laggy as it used to be. Wawawiwa !!! That 10% might just be my connection.
I know, it feels like we are back to when the data center happened, but at this point I'm just glad the content is playable.

Thank You! Best update this year !

[ChildofWizards]

Please let us know if you are still seeing lag from guild renown, and any other lag-related experiences you are encountering AFTER today's patch.

House Deneith on argo, is lagging out bad.

[Silverleafeon]

I don't want to speak too soon, but I can't say I don't see the improvements. After 1 run in Doj with 11 ppl, there were some small rubble-bandings and freezes here and there, but none of them were caused by guild renown. Overall this run was 90% less frustrating and laggy as it used to be. Wawawiwa !!! That 10% might just be my connection.
I know, it feels like we are back to when the data center happened, but at this point I'm just glad the content is playable.

Thank You! Best update this year !

Great new, jumping into a DoJ to test out Khyber, will see how it goes.


WOW, zero renown lag on 8 man EN DoJ run, in zero lag of any sort.

Combat kept on smooth as silk right thru the many renown awards!


Well done bug fixers!


2nd run of EN 8 man DoJ, very smooth, no renown lag at all.

[LT218]

Here we go again...

Queue the flood of "lag is so much better" posts. Well, of course it is. The servers were just rebooted, any memory leaks have been reset, database cache has been cleared and the active player load is at a low point. Of course the lag is better.

We've seen cycle multiple times over the past 2.5 months. Every time, the severity of the lag slowly builds until it hits the severe and gameplay impacting point around the 1-2 weeks of uptime mark. I know it's a crazy idea, but how about we hold off on claiming things are fixed or even significantly better until the two week mark?

[Livmo]

Here we go again...

Queue the flood of "lag is so much better" posts. Well, of course it is. The servers were just rebooted, any memory leaks have been reset, database cache has been cleared and the active player load is at a low point. Of course the lag is better.

We've seen cycle multiple times over the past 2.5 months. Every time, the severity of the lag slowly builds until it hits the severe and gameplay impacting point around the 1-2 weeks of uptime mark. I know it's a crazy idea, but how about we hold off on claiming things are fixed or even significantly better until the two week mark?

Seconded

[Cordovan]

Here we go again...

Queue the flood of "lag is so much better" posts. Well, of course it is. The servers were just rebooted, any memory leaks have been reset, database cache has been cleared and the active player load is at a low point. Of course the lag is better.

We've seen cycle multiple times over the past 2.5 months. Every time, the severity of the lag slowly builds until it hits the severe and gameplay impacting point around the 1-2 weeks of uptime mark. I know it's a crazy idea, but how about we hold off on claiming things are fixed or even significantly better until the two week mark?

We're certainly not basing any kind of long-term conclusion on lag in DDO by experience in the first couple of days following a server restart, but it is still valuable to know whether things are better or worse (or the same) than they were the last time we rebooted the worlds at this point in time. The amount of time since the last server restart was not a major factor in guild renown lag, at least according to folks on the forums and in-game who reported it to us regardless of time since the past reboot. Since we're looking to specifically get feedback on guild renown lag, we'd love to hear from folks who have run Legendary Shroud, Defiler of the Just, or any other group situation where they previously experienced guild renown lag, with their thoughts on how things behaved. We would love to know whether your experience changes in regard to guild renown lag over time as well, but please don't wait several weeks to tell us how things went tonight, ya know?

[Ebondevil]

Here we go again...

Queue the flood of "lag is so much better" posts. Well, of course it is. The servers were just rebooted, any memory leaks have been reset, database cache has been cleared and the active player load is at a low point. Of course the lag is better.

We've seen cycle multiple times over the past 2.5 months. Every time, the severity of the lag slowly builds until it hits the severe and gameplay impacting point around the 1-2 weeks of uptime mark. I know it's a crazy idea, but how about we hold off on claiming things are fixed or even significantly better until the two week mark?

Because good and then pregressivly worse reports actually help to maintain that perceived pattern which goes to support the idea that the problem is what you say.

Disclaimer: Not disagreeing with the problem as you perceive it, seems that way to me as well, just that both good and bad reports are supporting the pattern and thus useful and should be posted.

[Silverleafeon]

I'll try to run a LN full shroud tonight or tomorrow, and report back.

[Qhualor]

not experiencing absolutely any lag tonight. renown lag is nonexistent for me too. have to see what its like in a raid, though.

[Livmo]

We're certainly not basing any kind of long-term conclusion on lag in DDO by experience in the first couple of days following a server restart, but it is still valuable to know whether things are better or worse (or the same) than they were the last time we rebooted the worlds at this point in time. The amount of time since the last server restart was not a major factor in guild renown lag, at least according to folks on the forums and in-game who reported it to us regardless of time since the past reboot. Since we're looking to specifically get feedback on guild renown lag, we'd love to hear from folks who have run Legendary Shroud, Defiler of the Just, or any other group situation where they previously experienced guild renown lag, with their thoughts on how things behaved. We would love to know whether your experience changes in regard to guild renown lag over time as well, but please don't wait several weeks to tell us how things went tonight, ya know?

Sarlona at 6:40 PM PST CiTW Reprised

Did not notice any bad lag or any guild renoun lag and we just ran this on EH. It was a smooth run. I had no lag this run tonight.

Here is a my post from an EN CitW several nights ago that was riddled with lag and it was a rough completion due to lag. I died, because I rubber banded over nothingness and ended up at the bottom:

Full group and will post screenie below.

I did not run or jump over any gaps and was on solid ground running to the end right. I rubber baneded over nothingness and died and ended up at the bottom. Not cool, because I missed the end fight. The lag was horrible from when I stepped in until I finished. I know I was not the only one that ended up at the bottom due to this.

I ususally don't get this level of lag, even in EE. It was really bad. I had stuttering run lag on the way to Elimister after the raid as well.

I'm currently standing at the mailbox well after completion and I'm still hearing the ambient background sound from the chest area at the end of the raid. It's now 9:08am PST and I can't get the sound to go away. Will try re-logging.

Perhaps the servers could be restarted weekly as well?

I did report that at least this CiTW had no renoun lag and it was lag free me. Will try to run other raids if the opportunity is there.

EDIT ~ I forgot to mention that its now 6:59pm PST and I'm in the Eveningstar pub and can still hear the portal sound from the chest area in CiTW.